Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject: Sugestions for dealing with frusterated players was: Bad GM
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 12:58:07 -0700
Damion Milliken wrote:
> ......It's a feature of SR
> that nothing is what it seems......
> BTW, this brings up a point that's hampered me for some time. My players
> are pretty good planners, and come up with sneaky and stylish plans quite
> regularly.......The problem here is that the team is starting to
> get disappointed with planning and scheming. They're of the opinion that
> "no matter what we plan for, we'll always leave something out, or there'll
> be something unexpected happen, and our plan'll go to hell, so why bother
> planning at all? Frontal assault here we come!".
> What can others recommend

Well, Let's see now...I would probably let them con-plete a run without a
hitch [providing they had properly planned of course]. Run the session and
let them get in and out without being discovered [that they know of] play up
how easy it is and how smoothly things are running..If they don't get so
nervous that they all start getting that little twitch by their collective
left eye they aren't paying attention...let them think you are lulling them
into a sense of false security..and after the objective is reached and while
they are on their way to their hide-out let them spot so many LoneStar
vehicles chasing other people they are ready to run around in circles
screaming...Heck you could throw in a couple of heavily marked corporate
vehicles [of the corp they just hit of course][and of course these vehicles
are simply going to and from the corp] let them get all jumpy if they are
paying attention of course...along the way they could even have a blowout or
some other mundane problem..All the while LS and Corp vehicle pass them and
slow down watching them closely [AfterAll these motorists don't want to get
into an accident] You could even have a LS car stop and see if they need
assistance..If this doesn't blow their minds I don't know what will...And
once they make it to safety there 3 branches on the tree you can now take:
1] They got away with it and all the perinoid wonderings of the trip home
were just perinoid minds on hyper drive.
2] The entire team has just had a mass dream about a run that never happened
and are now contacted by some sort of Psychic/Magically active Mr Johnson and
are now about to start a real run..Oh and by the way I would still award
karma for the dream sequence after all the team were working hard even though
they were really asleep...
3] All hell breaks loose they never onve looked up and spotted that drone
following them, The Corp wanted to know if they where they were headquarteded
so they could put an end to those nasty shadowrunners...you can throw
everything at them including the kitchen sink...SWAT teams..LS..Corp special
OPs teams..the works...
[Evil GM Grin] At least these are some of the ways I might handle things..And
this tactic can be used at least 3 times before starting over..heck the
dream sequence can be used over and over every time that Mr Johnson wants to
contact the team...
--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 2
From: Rick Jones <rick@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Sugestions for dealing with frusterated players was: Bad GM
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:23:30 -0500 (CDT)
> Damion Milliken wrote:
> > regularly.......The problem here is that the team is starting to
> > get disappointed with planning and scheming. They're of the opinion that
> > "no matter what we plan for, we'll always leave something out, or there'll
> > be something unexpected happen, and our plan'll go to hell, so why bother
> > planning at all? Frontal assault here we come!".

My gaming group has similar gripes. Our refrain is: our plans never
work anyway, so we fall back on "get 'em", and "get 'em" always works.


One of the biggest temptations you have as a GM is to out think the
party. If they duck down an alley, the enemy is waiting for them. My
players kvetched at me about it, and eventually, I came up with this rule:

The Enemy Makes a Plan, and sticks to it. The enemy can't read the
players minds, though he is allowed to be just as sneaky and evil as the
players are.

Example Where it screwed the players:

The B-Team was hired to recover a stolen Power Focus. They staked out his
stomping grounds, and started to tail him. He picked up the tail, lost
them, and then set a trap for the players. He sent a double (Masked)
henchman out to lead them into a house that was wired for sight and sound.
(And full of zombies) After that, he was on to them, so he refused to fall
into the trap they set for him (which would have worked, had they not been
blown earlier).

Example Where it screwed me:

Tir Tairngire agents were on the trail of the B-Team. They knew about
the hotel's "secret escape route", so they set up a diversion to flush
the B-Team into the sewers, where they were waiting. The B-Team decided
to jump out a window instead. So, the B-Team got away because the
reinforcements became the front line of defense, and the B-Team got
away before the front line caught up to the combat.

If the players know that the bad guys aren't reading their minds and I'm
not intentionally screwing them, they're a lot happier when their plans
fail. That just means they have to have better plans.

--
Rick Jones Do you know people who think God must have built Epcot
rick@******.com Himself, because no mortal being could possibly put
Meyrick@***.com that much fun in one place?
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/ --Joe-Bob Briggs [apparently about me]
Message no. 3
From: Helge_DiernÊs <hedi93ac@*******.ECON.CBS.DK>
Subject: RE: Sugestions for dealing with frusterated players was: Bad GM
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 21:29:14 +0200
>From: GRANITE[SMTP:granite@**.net]
>Sent: 26. august 1996 21:58

>Damion Milliken wrote:
>> ......It's a feature of SR
>> that nothing is what it seems......
>> BTW, this brings up a point that's hampered me for some time. My players
>> are pretty good planners, and come up with sneaky and stylish plans quite
>> regularly.......The problem here is that the team is starting to
>> get disappointed with planning and scheming. They're of the opinion that
>> "no matter what we plan for, we'll always leave something out, or there'll
>> be something unexpected happen, and our plan'll go to hell, so why bother
>> planning at all? Frontal assault here we come!".
>> What can others recommend
>
>Your gamers should remember RL - planning always highens the chance of
>succesfully achiving objectives, but there will almost always - in my
>experience _always_, be some variables that go awry, and thus a need
>for improvisation. I generally feel bad in SR as well as RL, if I, when
>undertaking a major project, do not have at least 3 contingency plans,
>ie "if A fails, switch to B, if unwise under circumstances, goto C".
>And there will still be a need for improvisation, but planning will
>help to clarify the situation - if nothing else - and usually give some
>kind of backbone reflex which can save asses quite a few times :)
>
>--
>R,
>
>Silhouette
Message no. 4
From: Helge_DiernÊs <hedi93ac@*******.ECON.CBS.DK>
Subject: Sugestions for dealing with frusterated players was: Bad GM
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 00:02:09 +0200
>>From: GRANITE[SMTP:granite@**.net]
>>Sent: 26. august 1996 21:58
>
>>Damion Milliken wrote:
>>> ......It's a feature of SR
>>> that nothing is what it seems......
>>> BTW, this brings up a point that's hampered me for some time. My players
>>> are pretty good planners, and come up with sneaky and stylish plans quite
>>> regularly.......The problem here is that the team is starting to
>>> get disappointed with planning and scheming. They're of the opinion that
>>> "no matter what we plan for, we'll always leave something out, or
there'll
>>> be something unexpected happen, and our plan'll go to hell, so why bother
>>> planning at all? Frontal assault here we come!".
>>> What can others recommend
>>
>>Your gamers should remember RL - planning always highens the chance of
>>succesfully achiving objectives, but there will almost always - in my
>>experience _always_, be some variables that go awry, and thus a need
>>for improvisation. I generally feel bad in SR as well as RL, if I, when
>>undertaking a major project, do not have at least 3 contingency plans,
>>ie "if A fails, switch to B, if unwise under circumstances, goto C".
>>And there will still be a need for improvisation, but planning will
>>help to clarify the situation - if nothing else - and usually give some
>>kind of backbone reflex which can save asses quite a few times :)
>>
>>--
>>R,
>>
>>Silhouette
>
Message no. 5
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Sugestions for dealing with frusterated players was: Bad GM
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:03:25 +1000 (EST)
On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Helge_Diernæs wrote:

> >
>>Damion Milliken wrote:
> >>> ......It's a feature of SR
> >>> that nothing is what it seems......
> >>> BTW, this brings up a point that's hampered me for some time. My
players
> >>> are pretty good planners, and come up with sneaky and stylish plans
quite
> >>> regularly.......The problem here is that the team is starting to
> >>> get disappointed with planning and scheming. They're of the opinion
that
> >>> "no matter what we plan for, we'll always leave something out, or
there'll
> >>> be something unexpected happen, and our plan'll go to hell, so why
bother
> >>> planning at all? Frontal assault here we come!".
> >>> What can others recommend
> >>
> >>Your gamers should remember RL - planning always highens the chance of
> >>succesfully achiving objectives, but there will almost always - in my
> >>experience _always_, be some variables that go awry, and thus a need
> >>for improvisation. I generally feel bad in SR as well as RL, if I, when
> >>undertaking a major project, do not have at least 3 contingency plans,
> >>ie "if A fails, switch to B, if unwise under circumstances, goto
C".
> >>And there will still be a need for improvisation, but planning will
> >>help to clarify the situation - if nothing else - and usually give some
> >>kind of backbone reflex which can save asses quite a few times :)
> >>

Our group is a nest of real schemers and usually we can come up with some
pretty good plans that will get us in and out with a minimum of fuss or
notice. But this seemed to piss our GM off (old GM that is...sorry Craig :])
So always, we would "accidentally" trip an alarm...or "accientally"
wander into a group of guards who just happen to be wandering where we
are extracting...I guess it's more of a challenge this way, but I'd just
love for a plan to come off perfectly just once

There's my 2c for the day...thank you :)

Hamish

______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Sugestions for dealing with frusterated players was: Bad GM, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!