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Message no. 1
From: whitedragon whitedragons@****.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:38:21 -0800
"Super Tuesday sweeps by Bush, Gore could settle party contests"

this was the top headline on www.CNN.com/ at this point in time. brings back
memories of a certain electoral campaign and subsequent books and runs to
support it??

all right, all right, i just thought this was kinda neat.

WhiteDragon
Message no. 2
From: HHackerH@***.com HHackerH@***.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 04:13:28 EST
In a message dated 3/6/00 10:41:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
whitedragons@****.com writes:

> "Super Tuesday sweeps by Bush, Gore could settle party contests"
>
> this was the top headline on www.CNN.com/ at this point in time. brings
back
> memories of a certain electoral campaign and subsequent books and runs to
> support it??
>
> all right, all right, i just thought this was kinda neat.

Speaking of which, does anyone here have the years for the elections in the
2060's??? I was just curious, because if I have the numbers right (and I
admit I may not), then the next election(s) are coming up on the tail (what a
bad pun) of the Haley's Comet.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-K
-"Just a Bastard"
-Hoosier Hacker House
"Children of the Kernel"
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
Message no. 3
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:32:08 -0500 (EST)
HHackerH@***.com wrote:
> Speaking of which, does anyone here have the years for the elections in the
> 2060's??? I was just curious, because if I have the numbers right (and I
> admit I may not), then the next election(s) are coming up on the tail (what a
> bad pun) of the Haley's Comet.

Same progression we have now: 2060, 2064, 2068.
The election of 2057 was a special case, since the 2056 election was rigged.
Message no. 4
From: HHackerH@***.com HHackerH@***.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:51:22 EST
In a message dated 3/7/00 9:34:49 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
rtomasso@*******.com writes:

>
> Same progression we have now: 2060, 2064, 2068.
> The election of 2057 was a special case, since the 2056 election was
rigged.

Well okay, what did we miss or have I just not found something in the
reading. Did Haefner and Davier win again for the UCAS??? Because if so,
the '64 elections are going to be a trip. That'll mean Davier, the now
encumbant vice president and former "voice" for Dunkelzahn ... gets to run.

Yep, sounds like the future's getting brighter already if so.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-K
-"Just a Bastard"
-Hoosier Hacker House
"Children of the Kernel"
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
Message no. 5
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:10:39 -0500 (EST)
HHackerH@***.com wrote:
>
> rtomasso@*******.com writes:
> > Same progression we have now: 2060, 2064, 2068.
> > The election of 2057 was a special case, since the 2056 election was
> rigged.
>
> Well okay, what did we miss or have I just not found something in the
> reading. Did Haefner and Davier win again for the UCAS??? Because if so,
> the '64 elections are going to be a trip. That'll mean Davier, the now
> encumbant vice president and former "voice" for Dunkelzahn ... gets to run.

Yeah, they won re-election. I think it was in the timeline section of SR3.
And Heaffner can run again, The 22nd Amendment was nullified by another
one, I think during Jarman's term, so Predidents can serve for as long as
they keep winning.
Message no. 6
From: HHackerH@***.com HHackerH@***.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:42:30 EST
In a message dated 3/7/00 11:11:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
rtomasso@*******.com writes:

> > Well okay, what did we miss or have I just not found something in the
> > reading. Did Haefner and Davier win again for the UCAS??? Because if
so,
>
> > the '64 elections are going to be a trip. That'll mean Davier, the now
> > encumbant vice president and former "voice" for Dunkelzahn ... gets
to
run.
>
>
> Yeah, they won re-election. I think it was in the timeline section of SR3.
> And Heaffner can run again, The 22nd Amendment was nullified by another
> one, I think during Jarman's term, so Predidents can serve for as long as
> they keep winning.

I'm going to have to go find this thing about nullifying the 22nd Amendment.
Were that true, then it would have been interesting indeed to have seen
Dunkelzahn "survived".

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-K
-"Just a Bastard"
-Hoosier Hacker House
"Children of the Kernel"
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
Message no. 7
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:03:16 -0500 (EST)
HHackerH@***.com wrote:
> I'm going to have to go find this thing about nullifying the 22nd Amendment.
> Were that true, then it would have been interesting indeed to have seen
> Dunkelzahn "survived".

It's not specifically mentioned. But in the timeline, one of the presidents,
I think Jarman, clearly served for more than 10 years, ergo a new Amendment
was ratified allowing for it.
Message no. 8
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 19:36:18 +0100
According to HHackerH@***.com, at 4:13 on 7 Mar 00, the word on the street
was...

> Speaking of which, does anyone here have the years for the elections in the
> 2060's??? I was just curious, because if I have the numbers right (and I
> admit I may not), then the next election(s) are coming up on the tail (what a
> bad pun) of the Haley's Comet.

Isn't it every leap year? If so, it's easy enough to work out: 2060 is
election year, 2064, and 2068. OTOH if they went on from 2057 with one
election every four years, it's 2061, 2065, and 2069.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Because there are no stories about romance, no fairy-tale endings. Before
you run out and change the world, ask yourself, what do you really want?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: HHackerH@***.com HHackerH@***.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:09:16 EST
In a message dated 3/7/00 12:03:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
rtomasso@*******.com writes:

>
> It's not specifically mentioned. But in the timeline, one of the
presidents,
> I think Jarman, clearly served for more than 10 years, ergo a new Amendment
> was ratified allowing for it.
>
I'm looking through 3rd Ed., and I must still be missing it. Anyone find a
mention of the end. I found the beginning easily enough. I may go digging
through the previous two editions here now ...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-K
-"Just a Bastard"
-Hoosier Hacker House
"Children of the Kernel"
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
Message no. 10
From: Sommers sommers@*****.umich.edu
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 17:25:58 -0500
At 04:09 PM 3/7/00, HHackerH@***.com wrote:
>In a message dated 3/7/00 12:03:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>rtomasso@*******.com writes:
>
> >
> > It's not specifically mentioned. But in the timeline, one of the
>presidents,
> > I think Jarman, clearly served for more than 10 years, ergo a new
> Amendment
> > was ratified allowing for it.
> >
>I'm looking through 3rd Ed., and I must still be missing it. Anyone find a
>mention of the end. I found the beginning easily enough. I may go digging
>through the previous two editions here now ...

It in either the second edition book, or maybe NeoA Guide to NA in the
section about the UCAS. IIRC, he managed to push through an amendment that
got rid of the 22nd so that he could go for a third term.

Sommers
Aerospace engineers build weapon systems. Civil engineers build targets.
Message no. 11
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:13:25 -0800 (PST)
> Same progression we have now: 2060, 2064, 2068.
> The election of 2057 was a special case, since the
> 2056 election was rigged.

Hey, guys.

Just a question by an iggerant ex-yank...

What exactly does Super Tuesday refer to? Is the
election always held on a Tuesday? Or is that
something else? Is it the day when the parties declare
who's running for them?

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'-booner)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer
__________________________________________________
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Message no. 12
From: Sommers sommers@*****.umich.edu
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:40:03 -0500
At 11:13 PM 3/7/00, Rand Ratinac wrote:
> > Same progression we have now: 2060, 2064, 2068.
> > The election of 2057 was a special case, since the
> > 2056 election was rigged.
>
>Hey, guys.
>
>Just a question by an iggerant ex-yank...
>
>What exactly does Super Tuesday refer to? Is the
>election always held on a Tuesday? Or is that
>something else? Is it the day when the parties declare
>who's running for them?

19 different states hold their party primaries on Super Tuesday. A
significant number of delegates for the party nomination are up for grabs
today, allowing the front runner to get enough delegates to ensure the
nomination in a few months.

Sommers
Aerospace engineers build weapon systems. Civil engineers build targets.
Message no. 13
From: Logan Graves Logan@************.virtualAve.net
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 23:58:21 -0500
In our last episode, Sommers wrote:
>
> At 11:13 PM 3/7/00, Rand Ratinac wrote:
> >What exactly does Super Tuesday refer to?
>
> 19 different states hold their party primaries on Super Tuesday. A
> significant number of delegates for the party nomination are up for grabs
> today, allowing the front runner to get enough delegates to ensure the
> nomination in a few months.

Especially this year, cause California moved their primary back (or "up" if you
perfer) to Super Tuesday.

--Fenris
______________________________________________Fenris@************.virtualAve.net
(>) Today is Election Day, and we urge all citizens
to vote NO with the weapon of their choice.
(>) XHaDO Radio, "The Voice of Anarchy"
Message no. 14
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:53:22 -0800 (PST)
> > >What exactly does Super Tuesday refer to?
> >
> > 19 different states hold their party primaries on
> Super Tuesday. A
> > significant number of delegates for the party
> nomination are up for grabs
> > today, allowing the front runner to get enough
> delegates to ensure the
> > nomination in a few months.
>
> Especially this year, cause California moved their
> primary back (or "up" if you
> perfer) to Super Tuesday.
>
> --Fenris

Huh huh...cool!

Huh huh...wtf is a primary?

;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'-booner)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer
__________________________________________________
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Message no. 15
From: Elindor Quinn rjakins@******.murdoch.edu.au
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:59:26 +0800
On 7 Mar 00, at 22:53, Rand Ratinac wrote:

> Huh huh...cool!
>
> Huh huh...wtf is a primary?
>
> ;)
>

The americans have a system where the parties hold their
primaries (and caucuses) to determine who gets to be nominated
for President.

I think it would be much better if all the nominees were to be listed
on the Presidential ballot and sort it out then. Then the
iundependant vote might actually be worth something. But then
again, I'm from Australia, where we actually have more than two
significant political parties.
Message no. 16
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 04:20:33 EST
In a message dated 3/7/2000 8:13:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
docwagon101@*****.com writes:

> Just a question by an iggerant ex-yank...
>
> What exactly does Super Tuesday refer to? Is the
> election always held on a Tuesday? Or is that
> something else? Is it the day when the parties declare
> who's running for them?
>
>
Seeing as how your down chasing Kangaroo's I'l take pity on ya, Doc'. In the
US, when there is an election to be held, its always held on the first
tuesday of the month. Given that this is an election year, obviously there
are a lot of elections going on.

Short form is, since we believe in having choices, first there is a primary
election, where people vote for which candidate they want to have represent
their political party. These elections run from January through June. Super
Tuedsay refers to the fact that 13 or so states have their primary elections
in the month of March... so on the first tuesday of march, a candidate will
pretty much know what his chances of winning the nomination really are.

Once all that is done, there is a second election, the general one, held in
november to actually ELECT the president, senators, etc.

And here I bet you thought teh Auzzie parlimentary system was confusing, eh?

--
Starrngr -- Ranger HQ
HTTP://home.talkcity.com/TheSanitarium/Da_Muck/

"You wear a Hawaiian shirt and bring your music on a RUN? No wonder they
call you Howling Mad..." -- Rabid the Pysad.
Message no. 17
From: Sommers sommers@*****.umich.edu
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 08:30:55 -0500
At 02:59 AM 3/8/00, Elindor Quinn wrote:
>The americans have a system where the parties hold their
>primaries (and caucuses) to determine who gets to be nominated
>for President.

That's pretty much it. Each of the parties (2 big ones get public
financing, the Reform party could have gotten the support if they had
worked themselves out) hold elections to figure out who is going to be on
the ballot for the general election.

>I think it would be much better if all the nominees were to be listed
>on the Presidential ballot and sort it out then. Then the
>iundependant vote might actually be worth something. But then
>again, I'm from Australia, where we actually have more than two
>significant political parties.

If you do that, you have a parliamentary system. It has its own pros and
cons vs. representative democracy, as do most other forms of democracy. One
of the biggest problems with parliaments is that anyone can get elected to
parliament, no matter how small their party. This leads to one of two
conditions: one party big enough to hold a majority and push through
anything they want over the minority parties (what happens in Mexico) or a
whole bunch of parties that aren't big enough to do anything, which form
coalition governments (the worst example is Israel, with something like 30
parties with reps in parliament).

With a coalition govt, you're a hostage to the whims of whatever small
party wants to do or back out of the coalition, thereby breaking up the
government and calling for a new election. This has the tendency to
concentrate an inordinate amount of power in the hands of a very small
minority of the govt. Look at Israel or Germany, and how much influence the
small swing parties have on national policy.

Coming back on topic, with the forming of the UCAS, old Canadian provinces
had to switch from parliament to rep govt. Overnight, some of their
favorite pet parties couldn't get enough power in the general election.
Seeing as they were used to running things that way, it does explain why
they weren't able to cause more of an effect in the UCAS govt. They were
used to voting for whoever they wanted and having it immediately make a
difference, versus the new way which encourages larger parties.

Sommers
Aerospace engineers build weapon systems. Civil engineers build targets.
Message no. 18
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:16:37 -0500 (EST)
Elindor Quinn wrote:
> The americans have a system where the parties hold their
> primaries (and caucuses) to determine who gets to be nominated
> for President.
>
> I think it would be much better if all the nominees were to be listed
> on the Presidential ballot and sort it out then. Then the
> iundependant vote might actually be worth something.

In mant states, Independents can vote. In this cycle, it is where McCain
and Bradley are getting most of their support. And if we went to a national
primary, whomever had the most money or most familar name would win, simple
as that. And we'd all know a hell of a lot less about each candidate.

There is an effort by the various Secretaries of States to push for
regional primaries to avoid the coast-to-coast campaigning of this year's
super teusday and avoid the time crunch that was present this year.
Message no. 19
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:21:30 -0500 (EST)
Sommers wrote:
> If you do that, you have a parliamentary system. It has its own pros and
> cons vs. representative democracy, as do most other forms of democracy. One
> of the biggest problems with parliaments is that anyone can get elected to
> parliament, no matter how small their party.

Not necessarily. In places like Italy which as a 1% threshold (or did last time
I heard), you end up with a lot of fragmentation. If you up the minimum
threshold to 5% or 10% you end up with 4 or so parties, like most of the rest
of Europe, where governments stay in power for more than a year at a time.

> This leads to one of two conditions: one party big enough to hold a majority
> and push through anything they want over the minority parties

Similar to the rules of majority vote in the US House.


> Coming back on topic, with the forming of the UCAS, old Canadian provinces
> had to switch from parliament to rep govt. Overnight, some of their
> favorite pet parties couldn't get enough power in the general election.
> Seeing as they were used to running things that way, it does explain why
> they weren't able to cause more of an effect in the UCAS govt. They were
> used to voting for whoever they wanted and having it immediately make a
> difference, versus the new way which encourages larger parties.

There is nothing explicity unconstitutional about a state selecting its
representatives in a parliamentary manner. Current rulings frown on it, but
there is a move right now to push the larger states to use this method so
third parties can get some say in the system. I could see the Canadian states
being allowed to keep their method.
Message no. 20
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:21:34 -0800 (PST)
> The americans have a system where the parties hold
their primaries (and caucuses) to determine who gets
to be nominated for President.

So each party puts up what, two, maybe three
candidates and each state (or the party members in
each state?) vote for the candidates and whoever wins
the most states (or whoever wins the most votes
overall?) is the party's candidate to become
President? Oh, and what's a caucus? :)

> I think it would be much better if all the nominees
were to be listed on the Presidential ballot and sort
it out then. Then the iundependant vote might actually
be worth something. But then again, I'm from
Australia, where we actually have more than two
significant political parties.

I live in Australia, bubba, and I think your last
point is a little debatable - or has become so. :)
Still, I agree with you. The thing is, our electoral
system is more like the one they use to elect their
congressmen and senators than the President. I bet if
we did become a republic (with the President elected
by popular vote) we'd end up with a similar situation
to the one in America - maybe there'd be more names on
the sheet, but only the ones with the money to get
their views across would have a prayer of being
elected.

Btw, if you disagree strenuously with me, talk to me
privately. Political debate is frowned upon here,
IIRC. :)

*Doc' starts a petition to have all politicians
exterminated for the good of humanity...on further
thought, Doc' adds lawyers as well...*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'-booner)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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Message no. 21
From: David Hinkley dhinkley@***.org
Subject: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:47:10 -0800
Date sent: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 17:21:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
Subject: Re: Super Tuesday starts early!!!
To: shadowrn@*********.com
Send reply to: shadowrn@*********.com

> > The americans have a system where the parties hold
> their primaries (and caucuses) to determine who gets
> to be nominated for President.
>
> So each party puts up what, two, maybe three
> candidates and each state (or the party members in
> each state?) vote for the candidates and whoever wins
> the most states (or whoever wins the most votes
> overall?) is the party's candidate to become
> President? Oh, and what's a caucus? :)
Who can vote depends on the rules in each state party. In some states
everyone can vote others just party members. The rules vary widely and are
quite arcane in some jusisdictions.


In the primary the goal is to get a majority of the delegates to the party's
national convention. In some states it is winner take all, the candidate with the
most votes gets all the delegates. In others it is proportional get 40% of the
vote get 40% of the delegates.
A caucus is a meeting of party members. In Iowa for example, members of a
party meet in small meetings (5-50 people) at the same time all across the
state. At these meetings spokesmen for each of the candidates gives a brief
speach on why the group should choose his candidate, then there is a group
discussion and a vote. The results are then phoned in to a central location
where they are talied. Winning a caucus requires a different campaign
organization then a primary and the weather can be a large factor.


>
> > I think it would be much better if all the nominees
> were to be listed on the Presidential ballot and sort
> it out then. Then the iundependant vote might actually
> be worth something. But then again, I'm from
> Australia, where we actually have more than two
> significant political parties.
>
> I live in Australia, bubba, and I think your last
> point is a little debatable - or has become so. :)
> Still, I agree with you. The thing is, our electoral
> system is more like the one they use to elect their
> congressmen and senators than the President. I bet if
> we did become a republic (with the President elected
> by popular vote) we'd end up with a similar situation
> to the one in America - maybe there'd be more names on
> the sheet, but only the ones with the money to get
> their views across would have a prayer of being
> elected.
>
> Btw, if you disagree strenuously with me, talk to me
> privately. Political debate is frowned upon here,
> IIRC. :)
>
> *Doc' starts a petition to have all politicians
> exterminated for the good of humanity...on further
> thought, Doc' adds lawyers as well...*
>
> ====> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'-booner)
>
> S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.
>
> .sig Sauer
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
>




David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org

===================================================Those who are too intelligent to engage
in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato

Further Reading

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