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Message no. 1
From: Brian Johnson <john0375@****.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tactical Computer-doesn't count!
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 16:40:44 -0600
What counts with a Tactical computer as an 'additional sensory modification':
My answer: for starters, only stuff that actually constitues an
additional sense, not something like magnification, which is not a sense,
or stuff like hearing amplification, which, if you read it carefully,
does nothing for the hearing range (high or low frequency) or even
increases sensitivity (decibles) All the hearing amplification does is
make sounds that would normally be hard to hear (1 Db is the lowest
noise) much easier to hear. It does not grant you the ability to hear
noises below 1 Db, so it is not an additional sensory power.

What I count for the tactical computer in my game

> >Low-light
> >Thermographic
> >Olfactory booster (with complaint)
> >High-frequency hearing
> >Low-frequency hearing
> >Orientation system

> Spatial Recongizer
-is this a balance augmentation? or some sort of echolocation mod?
I'd count it for the second, but not for the first...

And these modifications only count for the 'lock on' test not for extra
dice in attack tests, or for the initiative 'boost', or for the number of
targets that the computer can track.

> >UltraSound

oh, the vision modification? Sure, I'd count that.

> Add:
While I do not count this modification, it is mentioned explicitly in the
shadowtech sourcebook as counting. It just bugs me. Especially the way
the wording of the modification and the tactical computer texts don't
match up.
> >Hearing amplification


> >Laser tracker
um, what?



I don't count this modification either (not a sense):
Magnification (any level)
Message no. 2
From: Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Tactical Computer-doesn't count!
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:18:05 -0600
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At 04:40 PM 3/19/97 -0600, Brian Johnson <john0375@****.TC.UMN.EDU> wrote:
>What counts with a Tactical computer as an 'additional sensory
modification':
>My answer: for starters, only stuff that actually constitues an
>additional sense, not something like magnification, which is not a sense,
>or stuff like hearing amplification, which, if you read it carefully,
>does nothing for the hearing range (high or low frequency) or even
>increases sensitivity (decibles) All the hearing amplification does is
>make sounds that would normally be hard to hear (1 Db is the lowest
>noise) much easier to hear. It does not grant you the ability to hear
>noises below 1 Db, so it is not an additional sensory power.

I think the best way to do it, is if the ware allows you to get a better
sense of the location of a target, then allow it. Otherwise, no.

>> Spatial Recongizer
>-is this a balance augmentation? or some sort of echolocation mod?
>I'd count it for the second, but not for the first...

It tells you what direction a sound is coming from. The balance augmentator
is something different.
>
>And these modifications only count for the 'lock on' test not for extra
>dice in attack tests, or for the initiative 'boost', or for the number of
>targets that the computer can track.

They add to the effective rating of the Tactical Computer, so they count for
everything. Neat, eh? A really deadly munchkin character. However, most of
this stuff eats essence because there are so many little things that without
alpha and beta ware, you can't have them all at once anyways.
Enjoy!

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--
______________________________________________________________________________
Ted Cabeen http://shadowland.rh.uchicago.edu cabeen@******.com
Check Website or finger for PGP Public Key secabeen@******.uchicago.edu
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@***.com
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@**********.com
Message no. 3
From: Brian Johnson <john0375@****.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tactical Computer-doesn't count!
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 18:29:40 -0600
> On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Ted Cabeen wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

> At 04:40 PM 3/19/97 -0600, Brian Johnson <john0375@****.TC.UMN.EDU> wrote:
> >What counts with a Tactical computer as an 'additional sensory
> >modification':
> >My answer: for starters, only stuff that actually constitues an
> >additional sense, not something like magnification, which is not a sense,
> >or stuff like hearing amplification, which, if you read it carefully,
> >does nothing for the sensitivity (decible range). All the
> >hearing amplification does is
> >make sounds that would normally be hard to hear (1 Db is the lowest
> >noise=whisper) much easier to hear. It does not grant you the ability to
> >hear noises below 1 Db, so it is not an additional sensory power.

> I think the best way to do it, is if the ware allows you to get a better
> sense of the location of a target, then allow it. Otherwise, no.

Right, I agree, but the point is that the tactical computer gets no
_additional_ information from sound amplification, since no information
is added. The character may hear quiet sounds better, but the
tactical computer hears those sounds with no difficulty in the first
place. This is the way it [was] described in the street samurai
[1] catalogue. All sound amp does is make hard to hear sounds easier to
hear. The decible range a character can hear is unaffected.
Something like 'Increased decible sensitivity range' would count, but not
the sound amp the way it is described.
...

Thanks for clarification on spatial recognizers. The way that's
described, I'd count it. Unless in complete silence/white noise generators.

Also, natural vision, like elven 'night sight' shouldn't count, it must be
cyber. That's just the wording of the text 'additional cybernetic
sensory modification (low light, hearing augmentation, thermographic) It
is clear to me that normal vision (from metahumanity, for instance) does
not count.

And Goofy stuff like hearing dampers, rangefinder (which are hooked
to a gun, not the tactical computer, probably ) don't count.

Personally, I require Cyberears and Cybereyes even without
modifications just to give the normal sound/vision input to the computer.

Other stuff--

hearing amp, vision magnification, olfactory boost, flare compensation (?)
and chemical analyzers are really reaching for it. I don't count them.
--olf boost based on how useless the information would be, same with
chemical analyzers. Flare compensation because it is not a sense.


> >And these modifications only count for the 'lock on' test not for extra
> >dice in attack tests, or for the initiative 'boost', or for the number of
> >targets that the computer can track.

> They add to the effective rating of the Tactical Computer, so they count for
> everything. Neat, eh?

Well, that would depend on whether the 'lock-on test' etc, includes the
word 'effective' explicitly in the text, or if it says 'rating of the
tactical computer' without 'effective'. I expect a few spots where it
says 'roll the tactical computer rating' not 'roll the effective tactical
computer rating' So If you want to be cruel, you can decide that some
of this stuff doesn't count. Especially for Things like Initiative, and
Attack Tests, hence my exclusion of them in _my_ rules.

Some of these, Like number of trackable targets, well, the number of sense
mods hooked in shouldn't have anything to do with it.

As I've seen it, this piece is mostly abused. See the Linda Naughton
Home page for a good indicator. They've got a rating 10 or so, mostly by
counting natural vision (Troll thermographic) and also count a Hearing
Damper and flare compensation. What ever. I tried to bring this up
about a year ago, but I got into this whole 'hearing amplification blah
blah blah' thing with someone else, who was completely missing my point.

Plus, the use of one really slows down game play. Try having a gang
fight with one of these. Serious time loss. Roll ten acquisition tests,
note results, etc. etc. etc.

> A really deadly munchkin character. However, most of
> this stuff eats essence because....

Not really, eyes can hold .5 worth for .2, and ears include a free .2 as
well. That's about 4 extra points for .4 essence. What really takes up
essence is the tactical computer itself, which would be a limiting
factor if the rules above were used, otherwise, there is no reason to by
a high rating computer when you can jam 14 more points in from cheap
[essence and cost] cyberware add-ons.
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Tactical Computer-doesn't count!
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:51:11 +0100
Brian Johnson said on 16:40/19 Mar 97...

> What counts with a Tactical computer as an 'additional sensory modification':
> My answer: for starters, only stuff that actually constitues an
> additional sense, not something like magnification, which is not a sense,
> or stuff like hearing amplification

If you read the blurb about the tactical computer, hearing amplification
is mentioned as an example when it talks about increasing the rating.

> What I count for the tactical computer in my game
>
> > >Low-light
> > >Thermographic
> > >Olfactory booster (with complaint)

IMHO it would be hard to really make use of such a system for a tactical
computer, but "hey, it's an extra sense" :)

> > Spatial Recongizer
> -is this a balance augmentation? or some sort of echolocation mod?
> I'd count it for the second, but not for the first...

It reduces the TN for sound-based Perception tests by -2 when you're
tracking something by listening to its movement.

> And these modifications only count for the 'lock on' test not for extra
> dice in attack tests, or for the initiative 'boost', or for the number of
> targets that the computer can track.

How do you figure that? Can you never get more extra dice than the base
computer's rating this way?

> > >Laser tracker
> um, what?

It's from Cybertechnology, page 23. It allows a cyberarm to automatically
track a designated target.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's a disguise, ma'am. We're actually much older.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 5
From: Brian Johnson <john0375@****.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tactical Computer-doesn't count!
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:54:11 -0600
Gurth- If you'd read my original post, you would have noted that while I
said I wouldn't count hearing amplification, I did mention that the thing
was explicitly in the text in shadowtech. Thanks.
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Tactical Computer-doesn't count!
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:35:10 +0100
Brian Johnson said on 12:54/21 Mar 97...

> Gurth- If you'd read my original post, you would have noted that while I
> said I wouldn't count hearing amplification, I did mention that the thing
> was explicitly in the text in shadowtech. Thanks.

I noticed that when I got to that part of the message, yeah :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Lack of inspiration has prevented a witty quote from being placed here.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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