Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: tactics
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 12:57:54 +0100
This is the Chopper question and answer time!

RDM...
You Use MINIGUNS inside your corp HQ?
the Misses and some of the hits are going Straight THROUGH
the walls and rattling off into your corp building, killing lots
of innocent corpies and damaging hardware...
You Use this stuff in low security areas where armourglass
cannot be justified, or places where guards can pop up to cover
threat zones.
Use aimed shots...cos the guard can stand up, aim and fire with
no fear. Single shots so the glass keeps integrity.

Use grenades in your corp building?
Well, gas , concussion, flashbang etc do little property
damage (but may scorch the floor)
Low velosity splinter bombs (an invention of mine, basically a
grenade that thrown small low vel flechettes. they pepper the
target, but have small areas. 3m radius, code 6M. the BAD bit is
the flechettes are poisoned, and if you're in the area, some
part of you is going to get injured...maybe only a scratch, but
thats enough for some toxins.

And if the corp is one of the big industrial combines, you'll
find the entire lobby is a marble patterned diamond analog (they
get it cheap as thay make it) that can take WP or frags without
a scratch.

O2 as an attack gas.
what happens when you switch on your terminal? WOOSH as it
heats up and flash ignites...

Walking in the FIRST LINE of security.someone said that SIN less
Shadowrners can walk in police surveilance without being spotted.
WRONG
what if it checks your ID vs town hall records? driving
licences? tax records? corp employment records?
and if you DO anything that attracts attention, you end up on
file and posted to the police...

CHOPPER
call again tomorrow baker and we'll have a crusty one
cough, Julia, over the blender! what do we do with it? VOLUME!
Message no. 2
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: tactics
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 00:53:22 +1000
CHOPPER writes:

> Walking in the FIRST LINE of security.someone said that SIN less
> Shadowrners can walk in police surveilance without being spotted.
> WRONG
> what if it checks your ID vs town hall records? driving
> licences? tax records? corp employment records?
> and if you DO anything that attracts attention, you end up on
> file and posted to the police...

Well, if you're SINless, who cares? You do not have any such records. If, on
the other hand, you actually do have a SIN, but just keep it in the bottom
of your sock draw... The bit about LS keeping records of crims only works if
they can get info. But it is a good threat to use on SINless people "If you
get hauled in by LS, then you get a brand spanking new SIN, lucky you, you
are now on record."

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+) !tv(--)@ b++ D+ B?
e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 3
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Tactics
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 01:57:18 +1000
Marc writes:

> For example, instead of having two goons blast around a corner and hose, have
> one goon use 1 simple action to look around the corner and make a perception
> test (to spot all possible targets if there are more than one and to
> determine the placement and threat assessment of those targets. that goon
> then uses his other simple action to duck back into full cover (totally out
> of the players' line of sight) and use his free action to convey the
> information obtained in either word or gesture (i.e. a one word/gesture way
> of pointing out the most significant threat). Then goon 2 (whose action is
> held till this point) ducks out around the corner and takes a single
> shot/burst at the target designated by the first. Goon 2 then ducks back
> into full cover, or stays out and covers the hall, depending on the result
> of his shot.

This idea sounds really good. Except for one small thing. By the SR rules,
you don't have separate moves at each simple action. You have one big move
over your go. Now, the rules don't really say when you actually move, so I
spose you could interpret it that you move a bit to begin with (ie pop up
from cover), then move a bit more later on (ie get back behind it). Also
note that the idea of "using a simple action to duck back into cover" is
wrong. "Movement in no way changes the availability of Free, Simple, or
Complex action" page 83.

> Also, you might want to allow the holding of simple actions, i.e.
> you can jump out, fire a burst, then hold your other simple action in case
> someone else comes into the hall. If something happens and you decide to
> use that held action, it can only be something that could be accomplished
> in a simple action. It works wonders.

This I like.

> As far as sensory detection goes, thermographic vision is the
> shit. It doesn't take long for someone's heat signature to bleed through
> a wall or door, probably only about two combat rounds. So if a player
> stays put for any length of time, assume the guards know where he or she
> is, and they can act accordingly (like hose through the door or wall).

Well, this would only occur if the character was touching the wall. If they
weren't leaning on the wall, then it would take a lot longer.

> Better still, this is not blind fire since you can see the target,
> although you may want to apply a small (+2 ?) modifier for the fuzziness
> of the bleed-through signature.

I would think +2 a bit too little myself.

As for the post on SWAT tactic: "GREAT" I loved it. It was _really_ good.
Thanks muchly. Now I might even be a little too nasty with the next bunch of
goonsI throw at the runners. <evil GM grin>

The only comment I have is that, it is not unreasonable to expect the
runners to survive (after all, things get a little boring after the LS SWAT
teams have trashed three sets of characters in one session), and hence the
runners are likely to get their grubby little hands on some of the high tech
gear the SWAT team had. Now, this may unbalance things a little in some
games (like mine). What this means is that some of the nifty things
suggested and used in the tactics (like Battletac computers) may have to
take the boot. This may alter things a tad, but it will be easy enough to
work around.

Again thanks for the great info.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+) !tv(--)@ b++ D+ B?
e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 4
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tactics
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 12:51:47 -0400
On Sat, 10 Sep 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> Marc writes:
> > [an example of duckout and cover]

Damion replies:
> Also,
> note that the idea of "using a simple action to duck back into cover" is
> wrong. "Movement in no way changes the availability of Free, Simple, or
> Complex action" page 83.

Note: by the rules, you are correct. For the purposes of my
game, however, I have determined that one of two things can happen.
Either you can duck out around a corner/over a barrel/through a
doorway/whatever and take both simple actions/one complex action (which
leaves you hanging out in only partial cover with no actions left), or
you can duck out, fire, and use your other simple action to get back
fully into cover. Getting fully into cover (to me) entails more than
just dropping or falling back. It also involves checking various lines
of sight to your position to make sure no part of your body is exposed,
hence to cost of a simple action. This is a house rule, but it works
really well. You actually have combats where that cybered-to-the-gills
street sam is thinking about who can shoot him, and taking time to place
his shots and take advantage of cover. It drastically increases the
realism of a combat.
Alternatively, you could simply apply a modifier (say that of
running) to any duckout maneuver, which would simply raise the target
number instead (by +4...ouch). Or maybe you could apply a running
modifier if you duck out, do your thing, then back and only apply the
walking modifier if you want to duck out, do your thing, and stay out.
The problem this creates is that it removes the option of staying out
depending on the results of your action. Purely gamemaster discretion,
you decide.

> > Marc writes [the idea of allowing simple actions to be held]

> Damion says:
> This I like.

Good. It really does make thing more interesting. You have
situations where a shooter has only one simple action left and two
targets present themselves. Which does he take? (he plays it smart and
ducks back into full cover, if he's smart. If not, well, you can see
where this is going...)

> >Marc writes [stuff about thermo bleed-through and heat
signature targeting]

> Damion says:
> Well, this would only occur if the character was touching the wall. If they
> weren't leaning on the wall, then it would take a lot longer.

Actually, you'd be surprised. There are thermographic imaging
systems nowadays that can see through wall as though they weren't there.
Generally, these are larger (and more expensive) military rigs, but the
tech exists. There's a reason why the military seems to love IR targeting.

> Damion says:
> As for the post on SWAT tactic: "GREAT" I loved it. It was _really_ good.
> Thanks muchly. Now I might even be a little too nasty with the next bunch of
> goonsI throw at the runners. <evil GM grin>
>
> Again thanks for the great info.
> --
> Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

No problem. Hope it's of use to you.

Marc
Message no. 5
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Tactics
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 13:16:30 +1000
Marc writes:

[His house rule on cover and simple actiosn]

I thought you must have had a house rule on that. I have been considering
the "gap" in the SR rules along those lines myself for nearly as long as I
have been playing, but have never actually done anything about it. What you
do seems to be a good rule. Just a few questions on how you run it though.
Do you play it along the lines that a person can spend an action and get an
additional move? So that I can duck round a corner (my normal movement for
the action), fire at +1 (if its walking), then spend my second action to get
a move, instead of an action?

> Alternatively, you could simply apply a modifier (say that of
> running) to any duckout maneuver, which would simply raise the target
> number instead (by +4...ouch).

This bit I don't quite follow. I assume you mean apply a running mod to
anybody who wishes to duck up, shoot, then duck back down. Or do you mean
apply the target running mod to the people shooting at them?

> Or maybe you could apply a running modifier if you duck out, do your thing,
> then back and only apply the walking modifier if you want to duck out, do
> your thing, and stay out.

I've thought about this. Say you were allowed to walk 5m in your action (ie
you have a quickness of 5). Say you began your action just round a corner of
a hall, in which the bad guys were at the other end. You could spend 1-2m to
walk out in the hall, fire for your two simple actions (or put in a complex
action of full auto), then spend another 1-2m to get back behind cover. The
SR rules don't really say when your movement occurs during your actions, so
I guess it could be interpreted this way. Makes things a bit easier to get
behind cover and such than your house rule does though.

> Marc writes [stuff about thermo bleed-through and heat
> signature targeting]

Really? I always thougth that a thermo sight couldn't get you Robocop see
throught to the next floor thermo vision. Hmmm, puts a whole new perspective
on giving everybody thermo vision doesn't it?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+) !tv(--)@ b++ D+ B?
e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 6
From: mykul@*******.co.uk (Mike Thomas)
Subject: Tactics(!)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 23:23:33 +0000
Yo Chummers.
I used to play in a group (4 - 7 of us) and we spent at least 75% of run
time planning and reccying the whole job - time permitting of course. You
know how those Johnsons like to watch the clock.
We took a lot of time trying to get in and out without alerting anyone (as
you do). Even if things started to go wrong, we tried to keep the run dry -
nets, tasers, tranq-loaded-rangerX-rounds - you name it, we packed it. But,
if all else failed, out came the trusty lead hose and fireballs, those
immortal lines "Run! We've been rumbled!"

Its times like those when you really know how well the team gels (no pun
intended) together. (and a little emergency planning!)

Cheerybye!
Mykul
8-)

Suffer No Skrimshankers.
Message no. 7
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Tactics
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:16:36 -0400 (EDT)
On Wed, 12 Jun 1996, Sascha Pabst wrote:

> The other thing is TACTICS. Work with delayed actions, fool the players
> (sure, there *was* the click of an AR running out of ammo... but noone said
> a thing about the 2nd grunt :-), circle 'em in, ...
> There was a great file posted here once (my players HATE it :-), I don't
> know by who, but may have a look.

That was probably my small unit tactics post. I still have it
saved somewhere, and if people are interested, I could post it again.
It's been a while since I have.

Marc
Message no. 8
From: "Paolo Marcucci" <paolo@*********.it>
Subject: Re: Tactics
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:31:50 +0200
At 11:16 13/06/96 -0400, Marc wrote:
> That was probably my small unit tactics post. I still have it
>saved somewhere, and if people are interested, I could post it again.
>It's been a while since I have.

I searched into my disk, but didn't find it. So I think it's a good time to
grow up the new generation runners :)

Post it here, or mail it to me for the obvious inclusion in the archive.
BTW, I think you had some other little snippets about shadowrun, don't you? :)

Bye, Paolo
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-411400
The Shadowrun Archive - http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/
Message no. 9
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Tactics
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 09:48:15 -0600 (MDT)
Marc A Renouf wrote:
|
|On Wed, 12 Jun 1996, Sascha Pabst wrote:
|
|> The other thing is TACTICS. Work with delayed actions, fool the players
|> (sure, there *was* the click of an AR running out of ammo... but noone said
|> a thing about the 2nd grunt :-), circle 'em in, ...
|> There was a great file posted here once (my players HATE it :-), I don't
|> know by who, but may have a look.
|
| That was probably my small unit tactics post. I still have it
|saved somewhere, and if people are interested, I could post it again.
|It's been a while since I have.

I would like to see it.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 10
From: "Jesper J\xrgensen" <jejo93ad@***.econ.cbs.dk>
Subject: Re: Tactics
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:50:36 +0200 (METDST)
On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, Marc A Renouf wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 12 Jun 1996, Sascha Pabst wrote:
>
> > The other thing is TACTICS. Work with delayed actions, fool the players
> > (sure, there *was* the click of an AR running out of ammo... but noone said
> > a thing about the 2nd grunt :-), circle 'em in, ...
> > There was a great file posted here once (my players HATE it :-), I don't
> > know by who, but may have a look.
>
> That was probably my small unit tactics post. I still have it
> saved somewhere, and if people are interested, I could post it again.
> It's been a while since I have.
>
> Marc
>
Hi
Could I have a copy of that post.

Sinc,

Stalker

BTW this is a private posting so U dont have to send it public, unless U
want to off course.
Message no. 11
From: kumquat@*****.com
Subject: Re: Tactics
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 02:38:50 -0500
Hmmm.. I have that posting on small unit tactics somewhere...
I think, (unfortunately) its on my old account mail folder, as it was
posted a year and a half ago.... maybe its in my backups.... I'll post
it if I can find it....

Just My Two Pence.
The Kumquat.

Support Whirled Peas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wild Onion! Mega-System - The Midwest's Finest Service For Adults
80 Nodes 100,000+ Files Interactive Gaming & The World Famous OnionHeads!
205.243.101.10 - onion.syn.net - 708-993-0461 - http://www.syn.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Tactics
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 19:08:55 +0200
On 14.06.96, kumquat@*****.com wrote about "Re: Tactics":
> Hmmm.. I have that posting on small unit tactics somewhere...
> I think, (unfortunately) its on my old account mail folder, as it was
> posted a year and a half ago.... maybe its in my backups.... I'll post
> it if I can find it....
I know for sure where I have it, but unfortunatly I removed the names of
the people who've send in the various parts (hm... there must have been
more then writer...)
So if you can't find it, or (uh- bad memory for names strikes again :-( )
Matti (?) Mark (?) doesn't, I can send it.

Sascha

--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 13
From: Stephen Delear <shadow@***.com>
Subject: Re: Tactics
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:55:26 -0500 (CDT)
On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, Marc A Renouf wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 12 Jun 1996, Sascha Pabst wrote:
>
> > The other thing is TACTICS. Work with delayed actions, fool the players
> > (sure, there *was* the click of an AR running out of ammo... but noone said
> > a thing about the 2nd grunt :-), circle 'em in, ...
> > There was a great file posted here once (my players HATE it :-), I don't
> > know by who, but may have a look.
>
> That was probably my small unit tactics post. I still have it
> saved somewhere, and if people are interested, I could post it again.
> It's been a while since I have.
>
> Marc
>
>
I'd like to see a copy of it.

Stephen

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Tactics, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!