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Message no. 1
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:35:45 -0800
With all the good posts on rationalizing the current Matrix system some
points quickly have become apparent:

1. The current decking system is pretty realistic. Kudos to Paul Hume!!
2. It does not insult you like Cyberpunk 2020's netrunning system (my
benchmark for making dumb rules for computers)
3. There are only a few parts that need to be modified/removed IMHO (Sparky
ICE and a few others).
4. There needs to be decker commentary.
5. We need a reprint of the story in VR1.0 or something like it to 'set the
story'. We need more then rules, we need to make the Matrix "real".
6. Jackpoints need their own section.
7. A reprint or rewrite of the simsense information in Shadowbeat needs to
be available.
8. The house rules for mainframes need to be added.
9. We need some "local color" with descriptions of some LTGs and RTGs from
around the world (even brief overviews or something akin to CPs "Guide to
the Net" minus the bullshit netrunner basis).
10. What the average joe does on the Matrix needs to be touched on. Some
players think the Matrix is ONLY for deckers. They don't see it as the
future internet. It's just a decker playground to them.
11. We need ways to use the Matrix in non-decker games. I think a new breed
of knowbot would work great for this. One that inhabits a drone body as well
and can be a virtual pet (borrowed from Tad Williams Otherworld books).
12. We can "fill in the holes" with technobabble that is logical and
plausible.
13. The media section of Shadowbeat could be updated and brought in line
with 2060.

If we can find Paul Hume and he's interested maybe he would like to look
over anything we could make. Besides that though who would be interested in
a book like this? Has FASA solicited manuscripts for something like this?

Ken
Message no. 2
From: Steven A. Tinner bluewizard@*****.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 00:25:32 -0500
<Snip>

FASA announced a book just like this at Gen Con this summer.

IIRC it's tentatively titled "The Matrix" and should include all that stuff
you just mentioned.

Check out Adam J's TSS website.
I think he still has the whole interview up in Real Audio format.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://listen.to/tinner
" This is the work of the demon Finance!" - Crash, Wererhino
Message no. 3
From: Paolo Marcucci thatpaolo@****.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:07:29 -0800
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:shadowrn-admin@*********.org]On Behalf Of Tzeentch

> 4. There needs to be decker commentary.

I agree. It's not a rulebook.

> 7. A reprint or rewrite of the simsense information in Shadowbeat needs to
> be available.

<g>

> 8. The house rules for mainframes need to be added.

Unnecessary, but it would be nice.

> 9. We need some "local color" with descriptions of some LTGs and RTGs from
> around the world (even brief overviews or something akin to CPs "Guide to
> the Net" minus the bullshit netrunner basis).

That will be, I think, half of the book.

> 11. We need ways to use the Matrix in non-decker games. I think a
> new breed
> of knowbot would work great for this. One that inhabits a drone
> body as well
> and can be a virtual pet (borrowed from Tad Williams Otherworld books).

Neato.

> If we can find Paul Hume and he's interested maybe he would like to look
> over anything we could make. Besides that though who would be
> interested in
> a book like this? Has FASA solicited manuscripts for something like this?

What do you you mean, by who would be interested in this book? In writing it
or getting it? Of course I would be very interested in getting it... :)

-Paolo
Message no. 4
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 00:58:48 -0800
On Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:35:45 -0800 "Tzeentch" <tzeentch666@*********.net>
writes:
> With all the good posts on rationalizing the current Matrix system some
> points quickly have become apparent:

<SNIP>
> 6. Jackpoints need their own section.

Why? I found that the VR2.0 material on Jackpoints sufficient.

> 7. A reprint or rewrite of the simsense information in Shadowbeat needs
to
> be available.

This will probably be in The Matrix (No idea what the theoretical realse
date is, let alone the actual one ;).

> 8. The house rules for mainframes need to be added.

I doubt you will see this anytime soon. FASA, IMO, is against allowing
PCs to do big things. Even if it is realistic that a decker might have
the resources to purchase, setup, and maintain a minor node (and it is.),
IMO, FASA will never officially allow it. In all likelihood, node prices
will be in the obscene ranges presented in VR2.

> 9. We need some "local color" with descriptions of some LTGs and RTGs
from
> around the world (even brief overviews or something akin to CPs "Guide
to
> the Net" minus the bullshit netrunner basis).

There is some currently; scattered throughout various books. I think this
is actually the focus of the future Matrix sourcebook.

> 10. What the average joe does on the Matrix needs to be touched on.
Some
> players think the Matrix is ONLY for deckers. They don't see it as the
> future internet. It's just a decker playground to them.

Part of the problem is that almost all of the matrix information is about
decking, but there is also the stigma that you need a datajack to use the
matrix. I'm considering giving my players e-zine subscriptions via the
matrix. The e-zines, besides being a way to introduce new stuff, would
bring bonus tidbits (10% off brand X legally purchased gear, Spell
Formula of the month, etc ...). It should be interesting.

> 11. We need ways to use the Matrix in non-decker games. I think a new
breed
> of knowbot would work great for this. One that inhabits a drone body as
well
> and can be a virtual pet (borrowed from Tad Williams Otherworld books).

Oh geeze ... you want to bring Gigapets to SR??? :P~

> 12. We can "fill in the holes" with technobabble that is logical and
plausible.

Can you give an example of why this is needed? I haven't been following
the thread.

> 13. The media section of Shadowbeat could be updated and brought in
line
> with 2060.

I don't really think it's all that out of date. Of the media material I
use, I don't convert it, I simply use it ...

> If we can find Paul Hume and he's interested maybe he would like to
look
> over anything we could make. Besides that though who would be
interested in
> a book like this? Has FASA solicited manuscripts for something like
this?

Jon Szeto and especially David Hyatt (co-author of Renraku Arcology:
Shutdown and creator(?)/owner/maintainer of the Shadowland website) would
be good choices for their technical backgrounds. Most likely David Hyatt
will be the (main) author of the book if he has the time to write it. I
would also like to see Steve Kenson (author of Technobabel among other
books and sourcebooks) co-author the book. He would really breathe life
into the book. I believe that David Hyatt's and Steve Kenson's differing
backgrounds would compliment each other nicely.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 5
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:45:51 -0800
Paolo said:
> > If we can find Paul Hume and he's interested maybe he would like to look
> > over anything we could make. Besides that though who would be
> > interested in
> > a book like this? Has FASA solicited manuscripts for something like
this?
>
> What do you you mean, by who would be interested in this book? In writing
it
> or getting it? Of course I would be very interested in getting it... :)

Just wondering if FASA has already solicited a book like this. I know they
have a Target style book coming out but no details as to what it is supposed
to cover. If possible I'd like to not compete with canon material. If anyone
can fill me in (even through NDA) that would be helpful to know where to
concentrate efforts.

I am now on terminal leave from the Marine Corps (whoo hoo) so I have some
free time :) I'll sketch out some material in the next week and post it to
my site (it will be way too big for to squeak under 40k).

Glad to see some interest :)~

Ken
Message no. 6
From: Lomion lomion@*********.org
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 00:00:21 -0800 (PST)
On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Tzeentch wrote:

> With all the good posts on rationalizing the current Matrix system some
> points quickly have become apparent:
>
> 1. The current decking system is pretty realistic. Kudos to Paul Hume!!

> 2. It does not insult you like Cyberpunk 2020's netrunning system (my
> benchmark for making dumb rules for computers)
> 3. There are only a few parts that need to be modified/removed IMHO (Sparky
> ICE and a few others).
> 4. There needs to be decker commentary.
This is very important, also it could flesh out how the systems are craked
or ways things work ,make it go beyond the dice.

> 5. We need a reprint of the story in VR1.0 or something like it to 'set the
> story'. We need more then rules, we need to make the Matrix "real".
> 6. Jackpoints need their own section.

Yeah, more on what access points would be nice

> 7. A reprint or rewrite of the simsense information in Shadowbeat needs to
> be available.
> 8. The house rules for mainframes need to be added.
> 9. We need some "local color" with descriptions of some LTGs and RTGs from
> around the world (even brief overviews or something akin to CPs "Guide to
> the Net" minus the bullshit netrunner basis)

Intereting idea, this would tie into the decker commentary
.
> 10. What the average joe does on the Matrix needs to be touched on. Some
> players think the Matrix is ONLY for deckers. They don't see it as the
> future internet. It's just a decker playground to them.

True, a analysis of how joe the wageslave uses the matrix or how homemaker
barbie does would be good

> 11. We need ways to use the Matrix in non-decker games. I think a new breed
> of knowbot would work great for this. One that inhabits a drone body as well
> and can be a virtual pet (borrowed from Tad Williams Otherworld books).
> 12. We can "fill in the holes" with technobabble that is logical and
> plausible.

i think this relates to technobabble

> 13. The media section of Shadowbeat could be updated and brought in line
> with 2060.
>
> If we can find Paul Hume and he's interested maybe he would like to look
> over anything we could make. Besides that though who would be interested in
> a book like this? Has FASA solicited manuscripts for something like this?
>
> Ken
>
>
>
Message no. 7
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 04:01:25 -0700
At 00:25 12/2/99 -0500, Steven A. Tinner wrote:

>IIRC it's tentatively titled "The Matrix" and should include all that stuff
>you just mentioned.
>
>Check out Adam J's TSS website.
>I think he still has the whole interview up in Real Audio format.

And MP3!

http://shadowrun.html.com/tss/gc-sos.html

As well as a text summary for those poor sods who don't have unlimited
downloads or free local phone calls.. :-)

Adam
--
< adamj@*********.html.com / http://shadowrun.html.com/tss >
< ICQ# 2350330 / ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / Shadowrun Creative Resources >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
Message no. 8
From: Bruce iti03678@****.co.za
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 14:31:54 +0200
-----Original Message-----
From: Tzeentch <tzeentch666@*********.net>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: 02 December 1999 06:43
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook


>With all the good posts on rationalizing the current Matrix system
some
>points quickly have become apparent:

I agree that this net.book is necessary. Avoiding overlap with FASA's
The Matrix sourcebook is very important though. I'll point out below
where I think we should leave it up to the pros.
>
>1. The current decking system is pretty realistic. Kudos to Paul
Hume!!

Agreed. It needs to be fleshed out in places and reduced in others
though.

>3. There are only a few parts that need to be modified/removed IMHO
(Sparky
>ICE and a few others).

Well, we still dont know what kind of power supply a cyberdeck
actually uses, do we? Considering the rendering and computing power
they exhibit, I would think pretty damn SOTA batteries would be
requirec and these would not last long.

>4. There needs to be decker commentary.

Agreed.

>5. We need a reprint of the story in VR1.0 or something like it to
'set the
>story'. We need more then rules, we need to make the Matrix "real".

I'm sure someone on the SRFanFic list would submit something that will
meet this requirement.

>6. Jackpoints need their own section.

Agreed. VR2 has a good deal of info on jackpoints that can be expanded
upon. A greater variety of jackpoints would be the obvious goal of
this section, but access to these jackpoints needs to be addressed,
especially when it comes to mainframes and routers etc...

>8. The house rules for mainframes need to be added.

Depends which house rules. There are a few versions. Perhaps a happy
medium between these ideas can be reached.

>9. We need some "local color" with descriptions of some LTGs and RTGs
from
>around the world (even brief overviews or something akin to CPs
"Guide to
>the Net" minus the bullshit netrunner basis).

This overlaps heavily with what FASA want to do in The Matrix. Let's
stear clear of the canon "sites" and detail some original ones.

>10. What the average joe does on the Matrix needs to be touched on.
Some
>players think the Matrix is ONLY for deckers. They don't see it as
the
>future internet. It's just a decker playground to them.

Good point, with impact beyond what you have mentioned. Often deckers
are looking for precisely the kind of info that Joe Wageslave is
generating while working.

>11. We need ways to use the Matrix in non-decker games. I think a new
breed
>of knowbot would work great for this. One that inhabits a drone body
as well
>and can be a virtual pet (borrowed from Tad Williams Otherworld
books).

eeew!

>Ken

- -
Bruce <phantasm@****.co.za>

Give me reasons why the sun has to shine
why they murdered the noisy mime
tell me the answers to the puzzles of Poe
and sing me to sleep on the rivers of woe
Message no. 9
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:38:03 -0500
> Ken
> <snip>
> 13. The media section of Shadowbeat could be updated and brought in line
> with 2060.

Well, the Matrix-related portions, yes.
Message no. 10
From: Lars Ericson lericson@****.edu
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 09:11:16 -0600
Tzeentch wrote:

> 9. We need some "local color" with descriptions of some LTGs and RTGs from
> around the world (even brief overviews or something akin to CPs "Guide to
> the Net" minus the bullshit netrunner basis).

The above item somewhat covers it, but I think having a dozen (or even
two) typical LTG sites would be very helpful. VR2.0 had a couple, but it
would still be nice to have a mafia LTG, DMV site, small, medium, and
large corporations, research sites, etc... I don't have a good handle on
creating matrix sites because the PC deckers are few and far between.

Is there a web site that has a compilation of submitted matrix sites?


--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Lars Ericson: Professional Vagabond
Smalley Research Group, Rice University
E-Mail: lericson@****.edu
WWW: http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~lericson/

Life is like a Wankel Engine. In between the emptiness of boredom and
despair, and the compression of stress in one's life, there's that one
spark of enjoyment that keeps you going.
Message no. 11
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:01:03 -0500 (EST)
Tzeentch wrote:
> Just wondering if FASA has already solicited a book like this. I know they
> have a Target style book coming out but no details as to what it is supposed
> to cover. If possible I'd like to not compete with canon material. If anyone
> can fill me in (even through NDA) that would be helpful to know where to
> concentrate efforts.

As someone else mentioned, the Matrix book (part Target book, part source
material, part toy book) is on the schedule. Mike has already solicited
comments and ideas from the freelancers and it should be in the works soon
now that Man & Machine is finallly done. <knock on wood>

I think a net.target.matrix book would be cool, but we should probably wait
until Matrix comes out to see if there's really anything new we need to add.
Message no. 12
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:38:39 -0800
From: Richard Tomasso <rtomasso@*******.com>
> As someone else mentioned, the Matrix book (part Target book, part source
> material, part toy book) is on the schedule. Mike has already solicited
> comments and ideas from the freelancers and it should be in the works soon
> now that Man & Machine is finallly done. <knock on wood>

Since it's not even on the release schedule on their site it could be
awhile..especially since it's not even started yet. Plus the inevitable
delay you have to tack onto the 'expected' release date.

> I think a net.target.matrix book would be cool, but we should probably
wait
> until Matrix comes out to see if there's really anything new we need to
add.

Whoah. Hey, I have a lot of interest in this. But not enough to do nothing
for a YEAR or so before FASA releases their official book.

If someone could say generally what the 'official' book will cover that will
great, but I'm not waiting a year or so to even start on the off-chance FASA
might cover the same things.

Ken
Message no. 13
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:57:25 -0500 (EST)
Tzeentch wrote:
> From: Richard Tomasso <rtomasso@*******.com>
> > As someone else mentioned, the Matrix book (part Target book, part source
> > material, part toy book) is on the schedule. Mike has already solicited
> > comments and ideas from the freelancers and it should be in the works soon
> > now that Man & Machine is finallly done. <knock on wood>
>
> Since it's not even on the release schedule on their site it could be
> awhile..especially since it's not even started yet. Plus the inevitable
> delay you have to tack onto the 'expected' release date.

Hmm, unless things have changed, it was scheduled for March, after Brainscan.
I'm pretty sure Mike talked about it at the GenCon seminar.
Message no. 14
From: Lee Decker deckerl@******.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:03:22 -0500
>
> Hmm, unless things have changed, it was scheduled for March,
> after Brainscan.
> I'm pretty sure Mike talked about it at the GenCon seminar.
>

It was in the transcript Adam J posted to his web site. But unless FASA does
a huge about face, I wouldn't hold your breath. They have been producing
quality stuff lately, but
they can't hit a release date for the lives of them. (We have a standing
joke concerning FASA being the Microsoft of the roleplaying world, but that
is a different story).
Message no. 15
From: Sommers sommers@*****.umich.edu
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 16:17:07 -0500
At 03:57 PM 12/2/99 , Richard Tomasso wrote:
>Tzeentch wrote:
> > From: Richard Tomasso <rtomasso@*******.com>
> > > As someone else mentioned, the Matrix book (part Target book, part source
> > > material, part toy book) is on the schedule. Mike has already solicited
> > > comments and ideas from the freelancers and it should be in the works
> soon
> > > now that Man & Machine is finallly done. <knock on wood>
> >
> > Since it's not even on the release schedule on their site it could be
> > awhile..especially since it's not even started yet. Plus the inevitable
> > delay you have to tack onto the 'expected' release date.
>
>Hmm, unless things have changed, it was scheduled for March, after Brainscan.
>I'm pretty sure Mike talked about it at the GenCon seminar.

Well if he is just soliciting ideas and comments from freelancers now,
there's no way in hell that it would be out for March. People were looking
at draft copies of M&M in August, and it took another 3 months to get to
the stores. If The Matrix isn't in draft and playtesting now, I don't
expect to see it before summer 2000.



Sommers
Insert witty quote here.
Message no. 16
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 01:13:46 -0800
On Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:03:22 -0500 Lee Decker <deckerl@******.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> (We have a standing
> joke concerning FASA being the Microsoft of the roleplaying world, but
that
> is a different story).

What a cruel comment! Besides, I've never had any of FASA's products
"crash" on me. :P~

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx


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Message no. 17
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 01:11:44 -0800
On Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:57:25 -0500 (EST) Richard Tomasso
<rtomasso@*******.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> Hmm, unless things have changed, it was scheduled for March, after
Brainscan.
> I'm pretty sure Mike talked about it at the GenCon seminar.

This may be a particularly pessimistic estimate, but I would't expect it
until a year from now.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
Why pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW!
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Message no. 18
From: Ray and Tamara Macey macey@***.com.au
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:21:57 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: <dghost@****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: Target: Matrix Netbook


> On Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:03:22 -0500 Lee Decker <deckerl@******.com> writes:
> <SNIP>
> > (We have a standing
> > joke concerning FASA being the Microsoft of the roleplaying world, but
> that
> > is a different story).
>
> What a cruel comment! Besides, I've never had any of FASA's products
> "crash" on me. :P~

Then you've never had one of their books fall apart on you WAY before it
should of? :)

NightRain.

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Message no. 19
From: Bruce iti03678@****.co.za
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:59:55 +0200
-----Original Message-----
From: dghost@****.com <dghost@****.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: 03 December 1999 09:09
Subject: Re: Target: Matrix Netbook


>On Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:03:22 -0500 Lee Decker <deckerl@******.com>
writes:
><SNIP>
>> (We have a standing
>> joke concerning FASA being the Microsoft of the roleplaying world,
but
>that
>> is a different story).
>
>What a cruel comment! Besides, I've never had any of FASA's products
>"crash" on me. :P~
>
>--
>D. Ghost

I'd call having the pages falling out two weeks after buying it
"crashing" :(

- -
Bruce <phantasm@****.co.za>

Give me reasons why the sun has to shine
why they murdered the noisy mime
tell me the answers to the puzzles of Poe
and sing me to sleep on the rivers of woe
Message no. 20
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:28:23 EST
In a message dated 12/3/99 6:44:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
iti03678@****.co.za writes:

> >On Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:03:22 -0500 Lee Decker <deckerl@******.com>
> writes:
> ><SNIP>
> >> (We have a standing
> >> joke concerning FASA being the Microsoft of the roleplaying world,
> but
> >that
> >> is a different story).
> >
> >What a cruel comment! Besides, I've never had any of FASA's products
> >"crash" on me. :P~
> >
> >--
> >D. Ghost
>
> I'd call having the pages falling out two weeks after buying it
> "crashing" :(
>
> - -
> Bruce <phantasm@****.co.za>


While I've heard on the list of people with the SR3 "archetypes problem"
<grin>, I must say I've never experienced it. Not so much as a single page
has come loose from my SR sourcebooks, let alone fall out. (My softcover SR3
is looking troublesome, though. I think the first print run of SR3 had some
massive gluing problems.)

(It'd be easy for me to say that I've never experienced this because I don't
break the spine while reading, turn the book over while open to hold it's
place, stick pencils in as place markers (gads, I've seen people to that and
they're just asking for it), expose it to extremes of heat or cold, or read
the book like a hardcover novel holding it by the covers instead of the
spine, plenty of others on this very list who do the same thing have had the
"SR3 archetype incident". Clearly this isn't the fault of the player, but it
maybe due to the climates they live in. Also, for the longest time I stacked
my SR books instead of putting them in in a bookcase. Not sure if that has
anything to do with the wear'n'tear, but mayhaps book shelves that have the
SBs canted to one side to fit are helping to crack the spines.)








-Twist
"We've never backed away from evil incarnate before, Peter, why this?"
"Evil incarnate can't sue, Frank."
Message no. 21
From: Wildfire Wildfire@*************.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 10:27:29 -0500
Twist0059@***.com wrote:

> In a message dated 12/3/99 6:44:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> iti03678@****.co.za writes:
>
> > >On Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:03:22 -0500 Lee Decker <deckerl@******.com>
> > writes:
> > ><SNIP>
> > >> (We have a standing
> > >> joke concerning FASA being the Microsoft of the roleplaying world,
> > but
> > >that
> > >> is a different story).
> > >
> > >What a cruel comment! Besides, I've never had any of FASA's products
> > >"crash" on me. :P~
> > >
> > >--
> > >D. Ghost
> >
> > I'd call having the pages falling out two weeks after buying it
> > "crashing" :(
> >
> > - -
> > Bruce <phantasm@****.co.za>
>
> While I've heard on the list of people with the SR3 "archetypes problem"
> <grin>, I must say I've never experienced it. Not so much as a single page
> has come loose from my SR sourcebooks, let alone fall out. (My softcover SR3
> is looking troublesome, though. I think the first print run of SR3 had some
> massive gluing problems.)
>
> (It'd be easy for me to say that I've never experienced this because I don't
> break the spine while reading, turn the book over while open to hold it's
> place, stick pencils in as place markers (gads, I've seen people to that and
> they're just asking for it), expose it to extremes of heat or cold, or read
> the book like a hardcover novel holding it by the covers instead of the
> spine, plenty of others on this very list who do the same thing have had the
> "SR3 archetype incident". Clearly this isn't the fault of the player, but
it
> maybe due to the climates they live in. Also, for the longest time I stacked
> my SR books instead of putting them in in a bookcase. Not sure if that has
> anything to do with the wear'n'tear, but mayhaps book shelves that have the
> SBs canted to one side to fit are helping to crack the spines.)
>
> -Twist
> "We've never backed away from evil incarnate before, Peter, why this?"
> "Evil incarnate can't sue, Frank."

Two words that have saved all my role-playing books: Contact paper. Seriously,
clear contact paper all your softcovers. It reinforces the spine as well as keep
tears and spills at a minimum. Find some Book Darts to use as placeholders,
too. They are little thin pieces of copper (I think) that you use like
paperclips. You can find them at Waldenbooks and other chain bookstores, 12 for
like $4 US.

Wildfire (sometimes with a DC)
Terminally Behing SOTA
---
www.nexusgate.freeservers.com/Shadowrun
Play with the Target Number Calculator! SR2 implemented only.
Message no. 22
From: Fanguad fanguad@****.rit.edu
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 10:40:50 -0500
On 3 Dec 99, Wildfire bothered me about:

<snip How I Saved My Book>

> Two words that have saved all my role-playing books: Contact paper. Seriously,
> clear contact paper all your softcovers. It reinforces the spine as well as keep
> tears and spills at a minimum. Find some Book Darts to use as placeholders,
> too. They are little thin pieces of copper (I think) that you use like
> paperclips. You can find them at Waldenbooks and other chain bookstores, 12 for
> like $4 US.

I agree with the contact paper. In addition, your book retains
much of its 'new' look.
OTOH, it hasn't helped me with my SR3 archtypes. I don't
mistreat my books (as per Twist's comment), and they still fell out.
Interestingly, I haven't had any problems with the other color
section in my [softcover] SR3. Has anyone has problems with the
back color sections?

-Fanguad
-------------------------
Modern programming is a race between programmers
striving to create bigger and better idiot-proof
programs, and the Universe trying to create bigger
and better idiots.

So far, the Universe is winning.
Message no. 23
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:51:56 -0500
From: "Fanguad" <fanguad@****.rit.edu>


> On 3 Dec 99, Wildfire bothered me about:
>
> <snip How I Saved My Book>
>
> I agree with the contact paper. In addition, your book retains
> much of its 'new' look.
> OTOH, it hasn't helped me with my SR3 archtypes. I don't
> mistreat my books (as per Twist's comment), and they still fell out.
> Interestingly, I haven't had any problems with the other color
> section in my [softcover] SR3. Has anyone has problems with the
> back color sections?
>
Y'know, I haven't used my SR3 book enough for it to be falling apart, so
I've had no problems with the archetypes, but I did want to mention that
we've *never* had problems with the archetypes falling out around here in
the SR2 books, which everyone else seems to have a problem with. [Of course,
the book literally *never* gets opened to those pages, so...] The problem
we've always had has been the magic section; all four of our BBB2s have
fallen apart in the middle of the magic section, losing pages like
snowflakes in a snowstorm. I guess you can tell what part of SR2 we actually
use. :) Everything else comes out of sourcebooks; the only thing I still
need the main book for is magic.

But man, am I tired of trying to keep all the loose-leaf pages of magic in
the book. Not to mention my own personal copy of BBB2, which now has "Part
One," and "Part Two," which would be the first and second halves of the
book, divided at the magic section, as well as "The Errata," which is our
fond term for the twelve or so loose-leaf pages of magic section that have
fallen out. The frightening thing is, I'd rather use it than our brand-new
copy. Go figure.
Message no. 24
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:05:54 -0500 (EST)
Sommers wrote:
> >Hmm, unless things have changed, it was scheduled for March, after Brainscan.
> >I'm pretty sure Mike talked about it at the GenCon seminar.
>
> Well if he is just soliciting ideas and comments from freelancers now,
> there's no way in hell that it would be out for March.

I said he's already gotten comments and ideas from the freelancers. Like way
back in Sept/Oct.


> If The Matrix isn't in draft and playtesting now, I don't
> expect to see it before summer 2000.

With the delay caused by M&M and the meetings and such with Decipher (whether
the deal happens or not). I'd expect it out in May, maybe June. I know FASA
wants the SOTA book at GenCon, so the schedule may get juggled.
Message no. 25
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:02:56 EST
In a message dated 12/3/1999 7:38:56 AM Pacific Standard Time,
fanguad@****.rit.edu writes:

> I agree with the contact paper. In addition, your book retains
> much of its 'new' look.
> OTOH, it hasn't helped me with my SR3 archtypes. I don't
> mistreat my books (as per Twist's comment), and they still fell out.
> Interestingly, I haven't had any problems with the other color
> section in my [softcover] SR3. Has anyone has problems with the
> back color sections?

Not yet, but I did just have one of the color archtype pages fall out of the
front of my bbb3. This was, however after 9 months of ownership, but only
moderate use. Then again, my nephew was reading it at the time, so something
might have happened while I wasnt looking. There are still no signs of the
back color section comming loose, though. (this is a second printing book
btw... there might have been some sort of problem at the printers with
substandard glue during the first printing, which would explain why people
with the first printing are the ones who have the most problems with pages
coming loose.)

--
Starrngr -- Ranger HQ
HTTP://home.talkcity.com/TheSanitarium/Da_Muck/

"You wear a Hawaiian shirt and bring your music on a RUN? No wonder they
call you Howling Mad..." -- Rabid the Pysad.
Message no. 26
From: Bira ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 20:51:55 -0200
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:28:23 EST
Twist0059@***.com wrote:
>
> While I've heard on the list of people with the SR3 "archetypes problem"
> <grin>, I must say I've never experienced it.

I,, however, did... Can someone say the order in which the
archetypes appear in the SR3 softcover, so that they are in the right
order when I have toe book spiral-bound?


Bira - SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://members.xoom.com/slbr
http://www.terravista.pt/Nazare/2729
ICQ# 4055455
Message no. 27
From: Da Twink Daddy datwinkdaddy@*******.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:10:27 -0600 (CST)
Today, Bira spoke on Re: Target: Matrix Netbook:

> I,, however, did... Can someone say the order in which the
> archetypes appear in the SR3 softcover, so that they are in the right
> order when I have toe book spiral-bound?

Check you back pages, I think they go upper-left, -right, lower-left,
-right.

Da Twink Daddy
e-mail: bss03@*******.uark.edu
ICQ: 514984
Message no. 28
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:20:24 -0800
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:21:57 +1000 "Ray and Tamara Macey"
<macey@***.com.au> writes:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dghost@****.com>
<SNIP>
>>Besides, I've never had any of FASA's products
>>"crash" on me. :P~

> Then you've never had one of their books fall apart on you WAY before
it
> should of? :)

Not really. I've had pages fall out, but nothing *too* serious. I think
my SR2 mainbook is in the worst shape (Well, actually, my SR1, but FASA
can't be expected to make their books one-year-old proof. ;). I still
don't consider it as having fallen apart WAY before it should have ...

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 29
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:37:26 -0800
On Fri, 03 Dec 1999 20:51:55 -0200 Bira <ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br>
writes:
> On Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:28:23 EST
> Twist0059@***.com wrote:
> > While I've heard on the list of people with the SR3 "archetypes
problem"
> > <grin>, I must say I've never experienced it.

> I,, however, did... Can someone say the order in which the
> archetypes appear in the SR3 softcover, so that they are in the right
> order when I have toe book spiral-bound?

They're in alphabetical order:
The Adept
Combat Decker
Combat Mage
Covert Ops Specialist
Drone Rigger
The Face
The Investigator
The Mercenary
Sprawl Ganger
Street Mage
Street Samurai
Street Shaman
The Tech-Wiz
Tribal Shaman
Vehicle Rigger
Weapons Specialist

In case anybody's wondering, in English phrases that begin in "the" are
alphabetized as if "the" was at the end (For example, "The Adept" is
alphabetized as "Adept, The"). Names are aplhabetized the same way (For
example, our assistant fearless leader, Adam Jury is alphabetized as
Jury, Adam.). I don't know if other languages follow the same
alphabetization rules.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx


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Message no. 30
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 01:19:00 -0700
At 11:38 12/2/99 -0800, Tzeentch wrote:

>If someone could say generally what the 'official' book will cover that will
>great, but I'm not waiting a year or so to even start on the off-chance FASA
>might cover the same things.

Transcribed from Secrets of Shadowrun (Condensed to remove some of Mike's
talking habits, which is to say, he says everything twice, with different
words :) ):

Mike Mulvihill: "I don't even know how to tell you about this next product.
You're just going to yell at me. The next product is called "The Matrix""

Adam Jury: "We love you Mike!"

MM: "You're lying now. The VR2 is the only core rule book done before I was
developer. We can put out the exact same book with the errata, update for
SR3, and sell it for about 20-22 dollars. Problem is about a third of that
book is already in SR3, because it was designed to be an entirely new
system and we based the SR3 system off it."

<stuff removed>

MM: "So what it came down to was naming it The Matrix, cutting out the base
rules, cleaning up the language, and then by redoing it that way, we're
talking a 100 page book, so then we started to look at other stuff that
other people have talked about, and one of those is a Target: Matrix type
book, really highlighting the nodes that are interest to deckers. Fleshing
out stuff like Shadowlands, Nexus, Ultraviolet stuff, Otaku stuff that
we've never worked on."

If you want the full audio file, it's at
http://shadowrun.html.com/tss/gc-sos.html

Adam
--
< adamj@*********.html.com / http://shadowrun.html.com/tss >
< ICQ# 2350330 / ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / Shadowrun Creative Resources >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
Message no. 31
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:45:53 +0100
According to Bira, at 20:51 on 3 Dec 99, the word on the street was...

> I,, however, did... Can someone say the order in which the
> archetypes appear in the SR3 softcover, so that they are in the right
> order when I have toe book spiral-bound?

They're in alphabetical order, plain and simple :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
When you've seen how big the world is, how can you make do with this?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 32
From: Aristotle aristotle@********.net
Subject: Target: Matrix Netbook
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 08:11:27 -0500
Although I may be a bit late for the party, I wanted to add my $.02 here as
a fairly new player and prospective GM.

At 08:35 PM 12/1/99 -0800, "Tzeentch" <tzeentch666@*********.net> wrote:
<snips -n- stuff>

>6. Jackpoints need their own section.

I wouldn't mind seeing more information on this topic.

>7. A reprint or rewrite of the simsense information in Shadowbeat needs to
>be available.

As I don't have "Shadowbeat" I am all for bringing back/updating old
material, and if it has anything to do with the matrix, the Decker
lifestyle, or computer technology than I suppose this is the book it should
be compiled into.

>8. The house rules for mainframes need to be added.

Ok... I'm guessing you mean "nodes" and yes I would like to see A LOT more
information on other forms of computers exist in the world of Shadowrun,
how a wealthy team may set up a node, utilize IC, and so forth. Information
on the inner workings of a cyberdeck, tortoise, node/host, and any other
"computer" (i.e. the palm pilot?) would be great.

>9. We need some "local color" with descriptions of some LTGs and RTGs from
>around the world (even brief overviews or something akin to CPs "Guide to
>the Net" minus the bullshit netrunner basis).

I would definitely like to see a great deal of this. Information on how
they are set up, and (if the info on nodes/hosts is included) what sort of
machines these babies run on.

>10. What the average joe does on the Matrix needs to be touched on. Some
>players think the Matrix is ONLY for deckers. They don't see it as the
>future internet. It's just a decker playground to them.

This would be *fantastic*. I would like to know a lot more about the
structure of the Matrix. What sort of services exist (e-mail?). Where one
goes to find different sorts of information.

>11. We need ways to use the Matrix in non-decker games. I think a new breed
>of knowbot would work great for this. One that inhabits a drone body as well
>and can be a virtual pet (borrowed from Tad Williams Otherworld books).

MatrixTech would be good. An update on the game mechanics surrounding AI's,
Knowbots, and Frames, as well as any other form of program that might exist.
<more snips -n- stuff>

I have faith that a great deal of this will be covered in the new source
book. In the end it comes down to the waiting game. *smile*

--Aristotle, The Sleeping Op.

"Courting death with black roses and bitter candies..."

Further Reading

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