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Message no. 1
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:27:11 -0400
On 30 Jul 98, at 5:06, James dillane wrote:

> Look at it this way. My sister just got a tattoo. A small one of a
> lizard at the base of her spine. My dad flipped. Myself and my sister both
> have no problems with tattoos, because it is "normal" for our sub-culture.
> In fact most of the late 90's culture accepts tattoos on one level or
> another.

Not in the business world. If you ever expect to get a decent job
with a corportation, don't go to an interview with a visible tatoo.
You will not get the job.

> But 25 to 30 years ago only sailors, criminals, bikers and other
> such outsiders had them. The people from that time tend to still think
> that way.

And that is why what I said above is true. Because of that thinking,
must corporations do not want to hire individuals that have visible
tatoos, because it will reflect negatively on their corporate image.
Perception is reality after all, and that is a stigma they would
rather avoid. Piercings are held in the same regard.

Would things be different in 206x? Hard to say. The books still
portray corporations as having the "stuffed suit" image, so I don't
things will change much. But the corps are having to tolerate and
accept a lot more than they would like to. Like that mage, for
example. He likes to wear his hair long, and shows up to work in
jeans and a t-shirt. Tatooed and pierced to hell. Who's going to fire
him? It's not exactly like the HR department has a pool of mages on
standby to replace him. So he is given leeway.

A couple of the novels indicated that the military isn't much
different in that regard either. Yes, the mage has to wear a uniform,
but other than that regulations are pretty lax. And, mages are given
an officer commission to boot.

I can start to understand a little more now why mages seem to be held
in such contempt. The rules don't apply to them, and it pisses people
off. I expect that a lot of mages have problems with overblown egos
as a result of the special treatment as well, further detracting from
their social graces.

I can see a lot of people blaming magic for there ills. If it wasn't
for magic, there'd be no orcs, and I'd still have my job. Or, I went
to school for 10 years to become a doctor, and the hospital would
rather hire this damn mojo master off the street. Or, I worked my
butt off for 5 years in the Star and that fraggin wiz from the
Academy gets my detective job.

I'm surprised there haven't been more "witch hunts" in the Shadowrun
world like what happened several hundred years ago. Numbers have
shown that "norms" out number mages 100 or more to 1. So, why not? I
guess it is because people fear them. Most of that fear is of the
unknown, because few people have seen magic in operation. Fear of the
unknown is the strongest fear of all.

So, it looks as if mages, and magic in general, is viewed with fear
and loathing. We've been talking about people's reluctance to get
cyber, what about people's reluctance to accept magic? I can see an
injured Joe Citizen screaming at a mage EMT to keep his mojo the hell
away. Or, when someone dies or something disappears under mysterious
circumstances, it was probably "some damn magic man".

Thoughts?

--


=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 2
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:57:00 EDT
In a message dated 7/30/1998 10:27:44 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
drekhead@***.NET writes:

> I'm surprised there haven't been more "witch hunts" in the Shadowrun
> world like what happened several hundred years ago. Numbers have
> shown that "norms" out number mages 100 or more to 1. So, why not? I
> guess it is because people fear them. Most of that fear is of the
> unknown, because few people have seen magic in operation. Fear of the
> unknown is the strongest fear of all.
>
Most of what else Tim had in his article, I do agree with. However, this one
paragraph I don't.

The GGD made certain that -everyone- in North America knew about Magic. All
that Volcanic Ash if for nothing else, and the military having no choice but
to allow the truth to be known (all those media break-ins/coverage). And
seeing a dragon even -once- flying around a city skyline, well that's enough
for most.

Tenochtitlan and Tokyo both have higher instances of this latter case, or at
least Teno does. With that many Feathered Serpents somehow involved in
Aztlan, it would be hard not to. And all the stories of the "Metacritters"
filtering in, okay, in some cases, flooding in, the idea of seeing magic in
action has to exist.

-K
Message no. 3
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:11:00 -0400
On 30 Jul 98, at 11:57, K is the Symbol wrote:

> The GGD made certain that -everyone- in North America knew about Magic.
> All that Volcanic Ash if for nothing else, and the military having no
> choice but to allow the truth to be known (all those media
> break-ins/coverage). And seeing a dragon even -once- flying around a city
> skyline, well that's enough for most.

Ok, people know that magic exists. I am not denying that. What I am
saying is how many people have actually seen magic in action? Like a
spell being cast, or a spirit? Not many. Yes, more have seen the
effects of magic, but not actually magic itself. Seeing a dragon is
not actually what I am talking about. I am referring to spellcasting,
conjuring, echanting, astral projection, etc. Most people have never
witnessed those things. Here about them, sure. See the results of
those actions, sure. But actually see them? Not usually.

--


=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 4
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:23:41 -0400
At 11:27 AM 7/30/98 -0400, you wrote:

>I can start to understand a little more now why mages seem to be held
>in such contempt. The rules don't apply to them, and it pisses people
>off. I expect that a lot of mages have problems with overblown egos
>as a result of the special treatment as well, further detracting from
>their social graces.

"Those damn freaks, think they are so special they don't have to obey the
rules. I frag up, I get fired. Mr. Fireball makes a mistake, he doesn't
even get a slap on the wrist. One of these days I tell ya!"

Yeah, people will always have problems with those that are percieved to be
a special or priviledged class or group. I think they take some of their
frustration out in sports, which as we were recently discussing, has a
pretty anti-magic attitude in general. And some of that is probably
manifest in entertainment; according to Shadowbeat it's often the corporate
mage that is wicked and evil.

But is the guy walking down the street going to get jumped because he's
wearing fetishes? Not necessarily; he might be skinny, but he might also
be able to toss off a fireball or summon an elemental to whupp ass.

Most folks probably dislike magic and fear it. Don't know about hate so
much, but even if magicians didn't often separate themselves from society,
society would seperate itself from the magicians.

>I'm surprised there haven't been more "witch hunts" in the Shadowrun
>world like what happened several hundred years ago. Numbers have
>shown that "norms" out number mages 100 or more to 1. So, why not? I
>guess it is because people fear them. Most of that fear is of the
>unknown, because few people have seen magic in operation. Fear of the
>unknown is the strongest fear of all.

As I said above. Over on TK there was a recent anti-magic plotline.
Didn't work out really well, for a number of reasons, but it was
illustrative of the common fears and distrusts of magic.

>So, it looks as if mages, and magic in general, is viewed with fear
>and loathing. We've been talking about people's reluctance to get
>cyber, what about people's reluctance to accept magic? I can see an
>injured Joe Citizen screaming at a mage EMT to keep his mojo the hell
>away. Or, when someone dies or something disappears under mysterious
>circumstances, it was probably "some damn magic man".

Magic is probably blamed for damn near everything. "I've got roaches in my
apartment, it must the the shaman 5 floors below me." No, maybe it's
because you'r apartment is a stie. "I got dumped by my girlfriend, that
voodoo guy must have cursed me." No, you're an insensitive lout. And so
on. Look at recent events; El Nino was blamed for A LOT of things that
weren't always even connected. If El Nino can be blamed for bad moods,
crimes and poor decisions, why can't magic be blamed for the same?

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 5
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:39:18 -0400
Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET> said:
> On 30 Jul 98, at 11:57, K is the Symbol wrote:
> > The GGD made certain that -everyone- in North America knew about Magic.
> > All that Volcanic Ash if for nothing else, and the military having no
> > choice but to allow the truth to be known (all those media
> > break-ins/coverage). And seeing a dragon even -once- flying around a city
> > skyline, well that's enough for most.
>
> Ok, people know that magic exists. I am not denying that. What I am
> saying is how many people have actually seen magic in action? Like a
> spell being cast, or a spirit? Not many. Yes, more have seen the
> effects of magic, but not actually magic itself. Seeing a dragon is
> not actually what I am talking about. I am referring to spellcasting,
> conjuring, echanting, astral projection, etc. Most people have never
> witnessed those things. Here about them, sure. See the results of
> those actions, sure. But actually see them? Not usually.

Most people can't see those things. Spirits are usually completely
undetectable to norms. Elementals can sometimes be seen as shimmers
in the air, but most people wouldn't think that was magic. To a norm,
Astral Projection looks like a magician fainting. You have to be
looking and make a perception test to see a mage casting a spell, and
that perception test can be pretty hard for low level spells.

Most magic is pretty subtle. Obviously spirits, elementals, and mages
can Manifest out of thin air, manipulation spells can be pretty showy,
and mages can conjure or enchant in public. But mages rarely enchant
or conjure in public, and Manifesting in public is not usually smart.

That probably leaves showy manipulation or illusion spells cast by
stage magicians as the most common form of magic people have personally
seen. And I'd say that such things are pretty common. Not all mages
are cut out to be wagemages or secmages (or shadow runners). A lot
probably go into entertainment. Imagine a clown who could make balloon
animals and animate them! It might REALLY scare some of the kids, but
acceptance for real magic in the entertainment industry would slowly
build. Magic in various forms (fantasy usually) is already a large
part of the entertainment industry today.

One of the Fasa books mentions "The Odd Coven", a sitcom about an
hermetic mage and a shaman who live together. And of course nothing
beats area effect damaging manipulation spells with elemental effects
for action movies. Imagine Arnold Schwartzwhatever as Terminator XVII
throwing the manipulation spell equivalent of a Hellblast while chasing
the great grandson of Sarah Connors.

And of course you should take into account the magic wannabees. If
kids grow up wanting to be a mage or shaman, they've already accepted
magic. Their parents may not be happy, but being magically active is
the 2050 equivalent of being a "gifted" child. You may not be happy
that your son is going to earn 5 times what you did just because he's
magically active, but a high lifestyle retirement paid for by that son
buys a lot of acceptance. And despite the low percentage of magically
active individuals, most people probably know a few.

Sure there will be a lot of traditionalists who say magic is bad or
evil, but they will fade away as the Awakened world advances. The
Catholic Church in the SR world has accepted that magic is a simple
tool, and not necessarily evil. If they can, the rest of the world
probably already has.

--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
Message no. 6
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:14:48 -0500
>Ok, people know that magic exists. I am not denying that. What I am
>saying is how many people have actually seen magic in action? Like a
>spell being cast, or a spirit? Not many. Yes, more have seen the
>effects of magic, but not actually magic itself. Seeing a dragon is
>not actually what I am talking about. I am referring to spellcasting,
>conjuring, echanting, astral projection, etc. Most people have never
>witnessed those things. Here about them, sure. See the results of
>those actions, sure. But actually see them? Not usually.


More than likely, the only way the great unwashed masses know of magic
and its effects is what they see on the trid. Now how accurate that is
and the spin the various media outlets put on it, one can only guess,
but imagine how things get slanted today, and extrapolate from there.

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
Message no. 7
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:55:56 EDT
In a message dated 8/1/1998 2:45:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM writes:

> More than likely, the only way the great unwashed masses know of magic
> and its effects is what they see on the trid. Now how accurate that is
> and the spin the various media outlets put on it, one can only guess,
> but imagine how things get slanted today, and extrapolate from there.
>
I don't know though if I can bring myself to agreeing about this. I mean,
anyone in the western section of the US could probably believe it.

People living in Tenochtitlan would also have to believe...it's part of their
governmental and religious structure even.

And as for encountering it, oh yeah, people encounter it all over the place.
Like the mentioning of the "bullet" that failed to hit Lugh Surehand in TT.

Or all those people that are in DC that are around the "rupture".

Or anyone in Amazonia with their rapid-as-hell overgrowth problems.

Go to the "Alabaster Maiden", and take a look at the nice woman too...hear the
tales and let your imagination wander a bit.

Imagine the Barriers spells that get thrown up during emergency requirements
to hold back rioters...

Go into New Orleans and witness the fun of the Mambo and their friends first
hand...just wait as the number of "Serviteurs" will slowly grow.

Oh yeah, "Mojo Attitude" is a good title for this thread...

-K
Message no. 8
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 04:16:50 EDT
In a message dated 01/08/98 02:56:44 Central Daylight Time, Ereskanti@***.COM
writes:

> I don't know though if I can bring myself to agreeing about this. I mean,
> anyone in the western section of the US could probably believe it.
>
> Oh yeah, "Mojo Attitude" is a good title for this thread...

Perhaps a good way of thinking about this is to think about how many people
you know, be they close friends, lovers, relatives you see at Yule, or people
you say "Hi" to when you pass them in the halls (be that at school or in the
office or wherever)... people who you know their names and a bit (or a lot)
about them. For all but the most withdrawn of us, its going to be at least a
hundred.

Now imagine one of these people has something really special about them,
something that is beyond your comprehension. Perhaps this person has a
special way of looking at things, or is a great judge of character from just a
quick introduction (astral perception). Or a flamboyant personality, an edge
that says "I'm good, I know it, and I can actually back it up".

Even in my mother's hometown (a tiny burg smaller than my High School), you'd
have at least 10 people who were magically active, be they mages or shamans or
physads. In a city like New York, with millions of people, there are going to
be tens of thousands of magically active people, some of whom will be quite
visible.

I don't think the average Joe is going to never have seen magic, even if its
just a street illusionist or a local Bear shaman trying to make his corner of
the Barrens a bit healthier. Will he be impressed by it? Hell, yes. Will
some of them fear it? Hell yes with five exclamation points (which I won't
put in). People I know fear blacks, gays, Jews, and anyone that is different,
whether they have power or not. When those fears or grounded ("Sure, the
quarterback says his Talent is only focussed on football, but did you hear
what he did to Bobby Richardson? Damn near threw him through the wall..."
"Maybe Suzie says she doesn't know any 'real' spells yet, but she set fire to
Mr. Fredrick's desk because he gave her an F on her paper), the fears will be
even bigger... but I think less likely to come out, because the fear is based
on the possibility of actually physical harm befalling them, not on "Hey, he
doesn't eat pork!"

Nexx
Message no. 9
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:28:31 -0500
>And as for encountering it, oh yeah, people encounter it all over
>the place. Like the mentioning of the "bullet" that failed to hit
>Lugh Surehand in TT.

Or the bullet that likewise failed to hit Joe Two Feathers in UNDERGROUND, a
bullet fired from something like *two feet away.*

>Or all those people that are in DC that are around the "rupture".

Okay, this brings up a couple of questions on my part. The manastorm in DC
opened up in 2057, when Dunkelzahn was assassinated. In 2060, is it still
there?

And has the Scott Commission found anything?

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 10
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:00:03 EDT
In a message dated 8/1/1998 9:30:38 AM US Eastern Standard Time, remo@***.NET
writes:

> Okay, this brings up a couple of questions on my part. The manastorm in DC
> opened up in 2057, when Dunkelzahn was assassinated. In 2060, is it still
> there?
>
> And has the Scott Commission found anything?
>
In -our- games, the rift is still there, though it has been changed somewhat
over time. Also, because of interposing story lines here, we altered it
somewhat so that the rift happened a bit later...or did we??? Damn, all of
the sudden, this calendar hopping is catching up to me. Not enough sleep..

-K

Further Reading

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