|Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
|Re: The Age of Earth (Longish)
|Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:29:32 +1000
> SR's universe, IF the ED crossover is occurent, has to do with the
> "Ages", but whose? The Cycles of Mana concept, IIRC, falls back to a
> representation of a speach that Ehran the Scribe gave to a bunch of
> Elven Technologists", proclaiming material concerning the calendar
> in which calendar to use and which one would better represent the rise
> fall of the magical eras. Ehran supported the Egyptian
> Someone a bit better in the know supported the Mayans (who, we as yet
> really know). In the end, the Mayans were more accurate.
This reminds me of a rather esoteric discussion I had with an
old family friend of a bottle of GlenFiddich a couple of years ago. He
was telling me of a particular story that links the Mayan and Egyptian
peoples. At some point in the past (I don't remember the exact date),
the Egyptian and Mayan peoples started building pyramids at roughly the
same time. David (my friend) was telling me that there is a theory (or
perhaps it was a legend from someplace) that the technological advances
made on both sides of the Atlantic at roughly the same time was caused
by the infux of refugees from the sinking of Atlantis. I don't remember
the full details, nor do I have a detailed knowledge of either
civilisation. I'm willing to think of it as an interesting theory in the
absence of something else to dispute it.
So, if we take this as a starting point, it is possible that
both calendars have a similar origin. After the split, the calendars
would have undergone separate development, which might account for their
differences. Ehran's calendar wasn't that far removed from the correct
date (IIRC), so this could well be a plausible explanation. At least to
This may (or may not) be one of the reasons for the Atlantean
> Sure, Ehran had tons of information at his fingertips, his command of
> magic was no doubt impressive, and still is (they don't give him stats
> represent that for instance). BUT, Science is an exacting, without
> compassion, "Force" as it were. It ultimately lacks a true bias,
> reason that people have so much problem ultimately understanding...we
> compassionate creature after all.
> But Science defines in the finite ultimately. Magic leaves a lot of
> measurable "openness" for speculation. That Speculation Space gives
> perceptual measurement.
> Science, as we hold it in the 20th Century now, holds the Earth to be
> Billion or so years old. SR's "Magical Scholars", hold the last age
> 5,000 years ago, and have dubbed "the current timeline" to be the
> Which opens the question ... What/When was the First Age?
> IF, the Ages are consistent, then that makes the "earth" about 25,000
> old. (remember, this is the beginning of the Sixth, not it's
> That number is very important.
> MOST Societal Structures on Earth are only about 25,000 years old on
> outside (including the initial forming of cave collectives here). So
> all that far from correct.
This point struck me immediately when the topic first came up
(although it was mentioned that the figure was 30,000 years). This
figure, IIRC, coincides roughly with the appearance of Cro-Magnon man on
> How about the Obsidiman and Tskrang of ED? Both of their races are
> of being -REALLY- old, even in ED's timeline. Perhaps they are merely
> throwbacks from that age. The Obsidiman are, to me at least, a
> of the "Liferocks" universal subconscious to "interact" (if you
> 'Earth-2', you have an idea of what I mean). Tskrang are incredibly
> ritualistic, in dress, speach, and life path choosing. That degree of
> ritualism defines an older culture, yet it also defines the limits of
> culture's adaptivity.
> Why aren't there bones of these races?
Well, who says that Obsidimen have bones? And the Tskrang might
have cremated their dead, or have some other strange rituals concerning
their dead, which would preclude the survival of any bones.
There is a niggling little thing about Obsidimen that has been
chewing away in the back of my mind for quite a while. There is an
Australian Aboriginal legend, which I was vaguely told about in passing
one time. It talks about (I think) a rainbow serpent which lives in an
area of Northern Australia, which could wake up and wreak havoc (my
sincerest apologies if I have got this badly wrong and have offended
someone). The area that the serpent was supposed to live coincides with
the area that is currently the scene of some pretty big protests -
uranium deposits in Kakadu national park.
Could the Obsidimen's liferocks be uranium deposits around the
world? Have we been digging them up and converting them into power
stations and weapons of mass destruction? Could this be the reason why
they didn't survive into the sixth age?
> I'm not so sure there aren't in SR. Remember the question bouncing
> about "Shaper DNA"? When that DNA comes into contact with a
> quality/quantity of Ambient Mana, it transforms into it's desired
> Goblinization occurred). Now the big problem with the transformation
> is that those bones are buried, and the relatively solid earth is not
> pliant. Those bones change, and many of them would break if they are
> trapped within such a place.
> Why haven't the bones of the museums transformed then? Well here's a
> neat consideration. The bones on display have been treated, bleached,
> toned. Their DNA patterns are no longer viable for any measure of
> understanding. Also, a LOT of those major displays are just that,
> Plaster and Plastic Castings of the real thing, made in order to
> ability to study them. The bones back in the archives and boxes???
> be honest, it simply hasn't been pursued very heavily in SR.
I would not be surprised that for a change in bones to occur,
the creature to which those bones belonged would need to be alive for
the change to take place. If a baby <insert species here> dies, its
bones don't keep growing after its death. Why should a dead bone change
when the mana level rises again?
> Everyone's been concentrating on "corporate life" and "life in the
> and "life with magic" to really full heartedly care what is in those
What is in those boxes now would be the same thing that would be
in those boxes before the rise of the mana level. I seriously doubt that
they would have undergone some sort of strange transformation.
> Now imagine how one or two people who would be in charge of the
> materials" could have easily altered the course of all generations to
> If they would have inwardly desired something to be a certain way, and
> such deeply, it could have "manifested" as a means to change the
It may not have even been a conscious desire. It may have simply
come from an incomplete understanding of the material. The opening lines
of the Tao Te Ching goes something like "The Tao which can be written
down is not the true Tao". If you learn something solely from written
material (or spoken material for that matter), you are going to be going
through the biases of the author. You have to interpret what they have
written. The reader may take a completely different interpretation of
the material from that which the author intended. If you are doing
something like translating that material into another language, it could
have a direct bearing on what you write down to pass on. Your intentions
might be completely honourable, but unless you are the original author
of the material, then it is subject to interpretation.
> I know, you think I've digressed heavily. In truth, I've not.
> Ehran is a character that has been presented to us as someone desiring
> "the Status Quo" changed. And he is in a position of immense
> possesses incredible knowledge of the past, and has no doubt learned
> recognize various patterns within "the (meta)Human Nature".
> But the calendar situation is a proof that he's let things distract
> proves his fallibility. He's made choices in the past where "he and
> knew better", and have hence made choices for others. Including how
> perceive the past.
I don't necessarily see this as being a "bastard" act. He is
recording history according to him and it is through his own perceptions
and beliefs. As far as I know, there isn't any information about a baby
Ehran and the society he grew up in (it might be in ED, but I haven't
read that). He would have been taught a series of beliefs about the
Elven race, which would then "taint" his perception of history.
> Science isn't distracted from truths. It's without distraction, at
> it's purest form. But human understanding of that Truth is fallible.
> influenced by what is within the very core of what it means to be a
> thinking, feeling, being.
Something about that statement bothers me, although I can't put
my finger on it. It may have something to do with my feelings about the
"if I can't pin it down, cut it open and measure it, then it doesn't
exist" attitude that scientists tend to have.
There is an esoteric philosophy which I am quite fond of which
has a principle which states that "Effectiveness is a measure of Truth".
If ti works for you, then it is true. If it doesn't then, it's a load of
bollocks. I don't think that there will ever be a universal TRUTH that
can be fully qualified.
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"