|Re: The Age of Earth (Longish ;)(Combine's with Shaper DNA btw)
|Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:40:20 EDT
> Does anyone else have any theories?
Oh yeah, and a ton of them. Let's see, we'll go for the most pronounced -I-
Each of the "Worlds" or "Ages" are a perceptive measure of recorded or
recordable time. In order for such perceptions to actually happen, a
recording race or being must be involved.
Earth could easily be that "3 Billion Plus" that science mentions, and it
could be the "6,000" that you were claiming others had said it to be. Please
note however on that last group, that time is subjective. Several noted
figures within the Bible for instance are incredibly old (Moses, Lazarus,
etc.) So old in fact that we have to sit and go "HOW??" Simply because we
only perceive time as we do now.
Calendars are a significant tool, and the ruling force, be it governmental or
religious or other in origin, ultimately determines how "Old" something is.
SR's universe, IF the ED crossover is occurent, has to do with the concept of
"Ages", but whose? The Cycles of Mana concept, IIRC, falls back to a textual
representation of a speach that Ehran the Scribe gave to a bunch of the "Young
Elven Technologists", proclaiming material concerning the calendar itself, as
in which calendar to use and which one would better represent the rise and
fall of the magical eras. Ehran supported the Egyptian Powers-that-were.
Someone a bit better in the know supported the Mayans (who, we as yet do not
really know). In the end, the Mayans were more accurate.
(Digression Factor) Ehran is "xenocentric" in his belief structure, in that
the Elves would be the first sign of the Re-Awakening. But the Mayans' had a
focus upon the first Great Dragon Awakening, so you tell me who knows more....
(Back on Track Now) In that conversation, Ehran stated the approximate times
between the Cycles of Mana to be about 5,000 years (the exact number he gave,
I don't have anymore).
(Digression Factor) Please note, in that conversation Ehran admitted to be at
-least- 5,000 years old and knowing at least one Pharoah from the ancient
(BoTN) As such, the cycles were given a calendric form in order for others to
follow them (ie; US the player in truth). And, as such, they were defined.
That defining is the key here IMO. Definition requires some knowledge, and in
order to have that knowledge, you have to have some form of Perception. Magic
is great for that, but as so many people both on and off the list have said,
NOT the end all be all of knowledge.
Sure, Ehran had tons of information at his fingertips, his command of the
magic was no doubt impressive, and still is (they don't give him stats to
represent that for instance). BUT, Science is an exacting, without
compassion, "Force" as it were. It ultimately lacks a true bias, hence the
reason that people have so much problem ultimately understanding...we are a
compassionate creature after all.
But Science defines in the finite ultimately. Magic leaves a lot of
measurable "openness" for speculation. That Speculation Space gives rise to
Science, as we hold it in the 20th Century now, holds the Earth to be 3-4
Billion or so years old. SR's "Magical Scholars", hold the last age to be
5,000 years ago, and have dubbed "the current timeline" to be the Sixth Age.
Which opens the question ... What/When was the First Age?
IF, the Ages are consistent, then that makes the "earth" about 25,000 years
old. (remember, this is the beginning of the Sixth, not it's conclusion).
That number is very important.
MOST Societal Structures on Earth are only about 25,000 years old on the
outside (including the initial forming of cave collectives here). So SR isn't
all that far from correct.
The measured Ages are about 25,000 Years old. That's about the time that
"Mankind" was able to record something, speak something that another would
figure out beyond himself (and beyond non-verbal cues), and ultimately select
how s/he would live out their existence (do I dig today or go hunting?).
Now apply the Mana cycles AND the Scientific Theory at the same time.
Mana probably has come and gone, risen and fallen, over the vastness of the
world's long history. But Mankind's ability to measure it has only been so
limited. Who/What could have measured time's passing before the coming of man
could be anyone's guess.
I'm gonna make one or two.
How about the Obsidiman and Tskrang of ED? Both of their races are indicative
of being -REALLY- old, even in ED's timeline. Perhaps they are merely
throwbacks from that age. The Obsidiman are, to me at least, a manifestation
of the "Liferocks" universal subconscious to "interact" (if you have
'Earth-2', you have an idea of what I mean). Tskrang are incredibly
ritualistic, in dress, speach, and life path choosing. That degree of
ritualism defines an older culture, yet it also defines the limits of the
Why aren't there bones of these races?
I'm not so sure there aren't in SR. Remember the question bouncing around
about "Shaper DNA"? When that DNA comes into contact with a proper/triggering
quality/quantity of Ambient Mana, it transforms into it's desired state (how
Goblinization occurred). Now the big problem with the transformation process
is that those bones are buried, and the relatively solid earth is not very
pliant. Those bones change, and many of them would break if they are still
trapped within such a place.
Why haven't the bones of the museums transformed then? Well here's a really
neat consideration. The bones on display have been treated, bleached, acid-
toned. Their DNA patterns are no longer viable for any measure of
understanding. Also, a LOT of those major displays are just that, displays.
Plaster and Plastic Castings of the real thing, made in order to preserve the
ability to study them. The bones back in the archives and boxes??? Well to
be honest, it simply hasn't been pursued very heavily in SR.
Everyone's been concentrating on "corporate life" and "life in the
and "life with magic" to really full heartedly care what is in those boxes
Those who don't learn from the Past are Fated to Ultimately Repeat It
To me, Earth -IS- 3-4 billion years old, but the recorded age of things is
still about 25,000 years or so.
I am going to ruffle some feathers here, but in all truth. That book is a
collection of works from a lot of sources. A LOT of those sources are very
"ethnocentric" and "pathocentric" in their outlook. I am very pained
and feel and understand what that means. Do you? It means that so many
decisions have been made based upon the beliefs that are merely a given person
or persons interpretation of a feeling or a compassion or desire.
Take the modern time. There are groups that are striving to "Strike Down the
King James Bible" as it currently stands. They have found material
surrounding King James that says he may have been Gay. As such, those groups
are really out to make certain that those things influenced by such a
"corrupted individual" are to be removed.
Now make that comparison to the past. People may or may not have understood
what they were feeling (and who ever said Sex wasn't powerful needs to be
fucked up the ass and made to understand the dramatics of those
feelings....NOT a plug for Rape!!!).
Now imagine how one or two people who would be in charge of the "original text
materials" could have easily altered the course of all generations to come.
If they would have inwardly desired something to be a certain way, and desired
such deeply, it could have "manifested" as a means to change the status quo.
I know, you think I've digressed heavily. In truth, I've not.
Ehran is a character that has been presented to us as someone desiring to see
"the Status Quo" changed. And he is in a position of immense influence. He
possesses incredible knowledge of the past, and has no doubt learned to
recognize various patterns within "the (meta)Human Nature".
But the calendar situation is a proof that he's let things distract him. It
proves his fallibility. He's made choices in the past where "he and his kind
knew better", and have hence made choices for others. Including how we
perceive the past.
Science isn't distracted from truths. It's without distraction, at least in
it's purest form. But human understanding of that Truth is fallible. It is
influenced by what is within the very core of what it means to be a living,
thinking, feeling, being.
And remember, that Human Nature is an extension, no matter how small it may
seem, to the rest of the Universe as a whole. To me, if I wanted to let the
"Grand Scheme of Things Rule", that would mean to me that the Universe isn't
ready to be understood just yet. And it will let "the Human View of the
Universe" get all confused for as long as it takes to make them, US, grow up.
Oh yeah sure, if people like Erik and Drek and David and Gurth make it this
far through this posting/reply. then they are probably gonna have some major
thoughts. And I hope they and everyone else do make it this far.
Nexx, you have asked a question that is far beyond the religious argument yet
what ultimately defines it. You have asked a question that as yet isn't
answered by anyone because in truth, no one can answer it.
Not Yet at Least....
PS...question of the Lifetime...what defines Immortality???