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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: The Aliens are coming
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 11:12:54 -0500
While watching The X-files on Friday, I say a preview for the upcoming
Alien Nation movie (Teusday, 8pm EST). [Alien Nation was, IMHO, one of
the BEST sci-fi television shows in history, even though the movie pretty
much sucked].

Anyways, I got to thinking while watching the commercial "What would the
effect of a similiar situation be to a SR world?"

For those not familiar with Alien Nation, here is a very brief rundown:
A space ship arrives at or crashes on Earth. The occupants are
escaped slaves from an "evil empire" of some kind. After a long time,
these "newcomers" are integrated into society. This, of course, makes the
world worse because Newcomers are stronger, faster, smarter and have
customs and biologies (a whole season was devoted to one couple having a
child, and the male is the on that gives birth) that are far different
than humans. "Skags" becomes the derogatory term for these aliens and it
truly becomes a racist world. (Rent the movie if you haven't seen, even
though it isn't as good as the series).

Anyways, what would happen if a ship of aliens in a similiar situation
landed in 21st century Shadowrun. These aliens are stronger, faster,
smart. They can adapt to cyberware more readily than humans. They can
wield magic better and in more frightful ways than any Terran native
can. New racism makes that directed at meta-humans look like a gentle
ribbing at a family reunion.

I don't want to debate the movie Alien Nation, per se. I'd just like to
get some ideas about what effect this would have on the Shadowrun World.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or anyone else
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GJ/CM d- H-- s-:++>s-:+ g+ p? au+ a- w++ v* C++(++++) UL++++$
P+>++ L++$ 3- E---- N+++ K+++ W M+ V-- -po+(---)>$ Y++ t+ 5+++
j R+++$ G- tv+ b+ D+ B--- e+>++(*) u** h* f r-->+++ !n y++**
Message no. 2
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 11:31:23 -0500
> the BEST sci-fi television shows in history, even though the movie
> pretty much sucked].

Never watched it much. I probably should have, but then again I
believe I was 10...

> Anyways, I got to thinking while watching the commercial "What
> would the effect of a similiar situation be to a SR world?"

Can we say "Invae"?

<grin>

I wouldn't see THAT many changes. Everyone's already geared for it,
at least a little. The Humanis groups would change their focus, and such, but
in general the racism wouldn't be as bad as in Alien Nation.

Not that it wouldn't be there, of course...

(What I want to know is how the Great Dragons would think of it).

--
Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@***.uiuc.edu)
Message no. 3
From: Micah Levy <M.Levy@**.UCL.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 17:47:37 +0000
Hmm...Horror Fodder.
Or maybe they would be of some use against them....
After all, They are on Their way now!
Message no. 4
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 16:14:41 -0400
On Sun, 23 Oct 1994, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> While watching The X-files on Friday, I say a preview for the upcoming
> Alien Nation movie (Teusday, 8pm EST). [Alien Nation was, IMHO, one of
> the BEST sci-fi television shows in history, even though the movie pretty
> much sucked].

Agreed...and, don't lose hope! The series can still be seen on
the Sci-Fi Channel here in North America (from the looks of most of their
advertisements, they aren't transmitting to anyplace else at present.)
This channel is on many cable systems, and is usually VCII scrambled on
satellite (EMail me if you need me to dig up which bird it's on.)

> Anyways, I got to thinking while watching the commercial "What would the
> effect of a similiar situation be to a SR world?"

Oooh, there you go, thinking again. Last time something like
this got you thinking, we dreamed up Psionics! *grin*
It is a very interesting idea, though I'm not sure if I like that
they adapt to cyberware faster than homo sapiens whatever...if it were put
into play, I'd suggest that they need customized cyberware, or _extremely_
customized bioware -- and current nanotech techniques would be totally
rejected, so that'd have to be re-worked as well.
In other words, they'd have more potential, but only the best of
them could beat your average munchkin troll sammie in a fair fight (as if
there would ever be a fair fight in a munchkin game.)
Still, this could make for some interesting discussion...and no,
I don't think it'd make a good NERPS submission. Yet. *grin*

/-----------------\
| J.D. Falk | "You're going to that happy land
| jdfalk@****.com | to play some volleyball."
\-----------------/ -A policeman making an arrest
Message no. 5
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 15:49:30 -0500
On Sun, 23 Oct 1994, J.D. Falk wrote:

> It is a very interesting idea, though I'm not sure if I like that
> they adapt to cyberware faster than homo sapiens whatever...if it were put
> into play, I'd suggest that they need customized cyberware, or _extremely_
> customized bioware -- and current nanotech techniques would be totally
> rejected, so that'd have to be re-worked as well.

Adapt was a very bad choice of words...

Say, give them an essence rating of 8 instead of six, to represent
generations of selective breeding to make hearty slave stock. Require
them to get Alpha-grade or better cyber because generic-ware isn't
customized enough (sort of a play-balance offset, as well).

As for magic, also give them a magic rating of 8 instead of six.

> Still, this could make for some interesting discussion...and no,
> I don't think it'd make a good NERPS submission. Yet. *grin*

But just think, I might become DLoH....

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or anyone else
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GJ/CM d- H-- s-:++>s-:+ g+ p? au+ a- w++ v* C++(++++) UL++++$
P+>++ L++$ 3- E---- N+++ K+++ W M+ V-- -po+(---)>$ Y++ t+ 5+++
j R+++$ G- tv+ b+ D+ B--- e+>++(*) u** h* f r-->+++ !n y++**
Message no. 6
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 17:17:20 -0400
On Sun, 23 Oct 1994, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Oct 1994, J.D. Falk wrote:
>
> > Still, this could make for some interesting discussion...and no,
> > I don't think it'd make a good NERPS submission. Yet. *grin*
>
> But just think, I might become DLoH....

Uh, oh...with you as DLoH, freely weilding the power to cause
large spaceships to crashland in Nevada in 2056, then Doctor Doom and the
rest of us would be left to deal with repetitive discussions about

SHADOWRUN <--> STAR TREK CROSSOVERS!!!
Message no. 7
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 17:59:16 -0500
> But just think, I might become DLoH....

Just what we need.

When FLoH watches TV, new supplements for SR suddenly appear on
store shelves.

I say that we BAN him from watching TV if he gets the job. All agreed?

--
Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@***.uiuc.edu)
Message no. 8
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 18:00:48 -0500
> rest of us would be left to deal with repetitive discussions about
>
> SHADOWRUN <--> STAR TREK CROSSOVERS!!!

Sounds like a NERPS submission to me...

*duck*

--
Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@***.uiuc.edu)
Message no. 9
From: Star <KADAMS@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 21:35:13 EST
I second that, that might prove to be dangerous. Imagine DLoH
running Shadowrun. He might just take advantage of all the ideas you
guys are giving him, and some one his own. We all thought
Shadowrun was hard before.....













A love that is never can always be obtained, a love that
is lost can never be regained. Think of the ones loved,
and smile.



-Star-
Message no. 10
From: Dylan Northrup <northrup@*****.CAS.USF.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 23:12:16 -0400
On Sun, 23 Oct 1994, Tim Skirvin wrote:

> I wouldn't see THAT many changes. Everyone's already geared for it,
> at least a little. The Humanis groups would change their focus, and such, but
> in general the racism wouldn't be as bad as in Alien Nation.

You never know. I have learned to never under-estimate the ability of
humans to hate something simply because it's different.

> (What I want to know is how the Great Dragons would think of it).

Provavly something along the lines of "Hey guys. Long time, no see."

*****************************************************************************
* Dylan Northrup <northrup@*****.cas.usf.edu> * PGP and Geek Code available *
*********************************************** via WWW and upon request *
* Will code HTML for food * KIBO #7 * <http://www.cas.usf.edu/dylan.html>; *
*****************************************************************************
-----------------------
Random Babylon 5 Quote:
-----------------------
"The sky was full of stars and every star an exploding ship -- one of ours."
-- Sinclair (about the Line), "The Gathering"
Message no. 11
From: Darth Vader <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 10:19:31 +0200
> Say, give them an essence rating of 8 instead of six, to represent
> generations of selective breeding to make hearty slave stock. Require
> them to get Alpha-grade or better cyber because generic-ware isn't
> customized enough (sort of a play-balance offset, as well).
>
> As for magic, also give them a magic rating of 8 instead of six.

I agree about the essence, but why give them the ability to use magic.
I mean they were bred to be efficient workers, I'd say their 'soul' simply
lacks the 'qualities' or 'strength' to influence the astral. So this could
give them some sort of negative attitude towards magic - as well as some
interesting properties. Their astral signature could be weak/twisted/non-
existent.....

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++VS++L>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N++ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b+++ D++ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 12
From: Alex Gay <cs6004@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 11:36:43 +0000
What do you mean, Alien Nation was one of the best Sci-fi
programs? It was complete and uter dross! Why the goverments
didn't imidiatly get rid of the bubble headed freaks is beyond
me. In the end the slags would take over our planet the way
they did on there own. There is no where near enough resorces
for us, let alone these canabalistic, sickening dieted Alian
SCUM!!

Thank you for your time, and Blake-7, Babylon-5 and War of the
Worlds were all far far superior to anything Alien nation put
out.

later..
--
**************************************************************
* Avon "...but one more death will do it!" *
* Blake " Then I would be very carefull if I were you, *
* it would be ironic if the death were yours.." *
**************************************************************
* JackFrost@****.wlv.ac.uk *
**************************************************************
Message no. 13
From: Matt <mosbun@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 10:40:40 -0500
>You never know. I have learned to never under-estimate the ability of
>humans to hate something simply because it's different.

'Course, it'd be nice to not OVERestimate the ability of humans to hate,
either.

Matt
Message no. 14
From: Magister <MELLIOTT@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 15:00:42 EST
Just a tad on the xenophobic side, are we, Mr. Frost???

Magister
Message no. 15
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 17:53:13 -0400
On Mon, 24 Oct 1994, Darth Vader wrote:

> I agree about the essence, but why give them the ability to use magic.
> I mean they were bred to be efficient workers, I'd say their 'soul' simply
> lacks the 'qualities' or 'strength' to influence the astral.

That makes sense...especially since magic only happens within the
atmosphere of (what's left of) Earth. An interesting twist could be that
on their home planet(s) they _could_ do magic, but then they were captured
and selectively bred as workers off-planet (where their magic didn't
work), and now they're extremely wary of relying on magic for anything (it
let them down before....)

> So this could
> give them some sort of negative attitude towards magic - as well as some
> interesting properties. Their astral signature could be weak/twisted/non-
> existent.....

Different, anyway...remember that "posessed" (meta)humans have the
aura of the posessing spirit; these aliens could simply have a
strange-looking aura as compared to Earth natives.

/-----------------\
| J.D. Falk | All the world's indeed a stage
| jdfalk@****.com | And, damnit, I'm a stagehand.
\-----------------/
Message no. 16
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 17:20:46 EST
> I agree about the essence, but why give them the ability to use
magic.
> I mean they were bred to be efficient workers, I'd say their 'soul'
simply
> lacks the 'qualities' or 'strength' to influence the astral. So this
could
> give them some sort of negative attitude towards magic - as well as
some
> interesting properties. Their astral signature could be
weak/twisted/non-
> existent.....


But, you are not taking into consideration what these aliens are like.
Maybe they are naturally magical. Maybe what we consider magic
is their science. Or that since they were bred to adapt well, in a few
months, magic will become a part of them.
> --
> "Believe in Angels." -- The Crow
>
> GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++VS++L>++++ P--
(aren't we all?)
> L+>+++ 3 E--- N++ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-)
R+++(--)
> !G tv(++) b+++ D++ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
>



Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever gods they worship will smile upon them.
I waltz through shadows with my gods, and I lead!

-SHADOWDANCER-
Message no. 17
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 17:30:55 EST
> What do you mean, Alien Nation was one of the best Sci-fi
> programs? It was complete and uter dross! Why the goverments
> didn't imidiatly get rid of the bubble headed freaks is beyond
> me. In the end the slags would take over our planet the way
> they did on there own. There is no where near enough resorces
> for us, let alone these canabalistic, sickening dieted Alian
> SCUM!!

Did somebody mention Humanis? Or is this more the work of Der
Nachtmachen(sp?)???



Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever gods they worship will smile upon them.
I waltz through shadows with my gods, and I lead!

-SHADOWDANCER-
Message no. 18
From: Skrub <mccllstr@*****.BUCKNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 19:04:47 -0400
> That makes sense...especially since magic only happens within the
>atmosphere of (what's left of) Earth.

Hmmm, actually the recently posted story about Knight and the Invae, err,
Insect Spirirts, implies that magic is NOT limited to earth. Yeah I know,
FASA said somewhere that the lack of mana above a certain height from earth
acts like a vaccuum on mages sanity if they try to cast or view astrally or
something. Whatever. That may well be commen opinion. Let's see though. Ares
is the leader in space technology. Ares "brings [a mage] down..." who says
"I've shaped power among the stars". I suspect magic can work in space, if
you are either trained very very carefully, or born and initially trained
there. There has been enough time since the Awakening to have people born in
space. Of course if Poul Anderson has decent sources, they'd have
problems... But. What about those mages from Mars?

"Did you see the news vid, they say Martian Mages are invading Seattle."
"Whatever."
"Seriously, it wasn't 'The Seattle Gossip' either, it was the Raku vid."
"Uh-huh."

Think about it, Ares certainly wouldn't PUBLISH their successes, and if they
know about the Horrors and Invae, where would be better to hide than where
there isn't enough mana to support Horror's existance?

Maybe FASA is gonna start tieing SR into MechWarrior :) We had to colonize
the inner sphere for some reason. Magic is fairy tale, no one really
believes Demons chased us off of Old Earth, that's just old world
superstition. In the 3000's magic would still be around, on Earth...

Think about it. Don't thwap me.

-Skrub
Message no. 19
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 18:59:16 EST
>>
> Maybe FASA is gonna start tieing SR into MechWarrior :) We had to
colonize
> the inner sphere for some reason. Magic is fairy tale, no one really
> believes Demons chased us off of Old Earth, that's just old world
> superstition. In the 3000's magic would still be around, on Earth...
>
> Think about it. Don't thwap me.
>


Maybe this is were the adventure in White Wolf came from. The one
with 'Mechs fighting Godzilla and stuff. Or maybe it was a momentary
lapse in sanity.

And just because you said for us not to:

Shadowdancer's Vindicator thwapp:
(Barrels start rotating)
(One minute later)

(slime sloshing sounds)
THWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWA
PPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTH
WAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPP
THWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWA
PPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTH
WAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPP
THWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWA
PPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTH
WAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPP
THWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWA
PPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTH
WAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPP
THWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWA
PPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTH
WAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPP
THWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWA
PPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTH
WAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPP
THWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWA
PPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTH
WAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPP
THWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPPTHWAPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(need fresh carp belt)



Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever gods they worship will smile upon them.
I waltz through shadows with my gods, and I lead!

-SHADOWDANCER-
Message no. 20
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Aliens are coming
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 03:57:33 -0500
> You never know. I have learned to never under-estimate the ability
> of humans to hate something simply because it's different.

True.

Worse, of course, is different and BETTER.

> > (What I want to know is how the Great Dragons would think
>
> Provavly something along the lines of "Hey guys. Long time, no
> see."

I think that hoping that they HADN'T seen the aliens before is more...
survivable...

--
Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@***.uiuc.edu)

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about The Aliens are coming, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!