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Message no. 1
From: Glenn Robertson <Glenn.Robertson@***.EDU>
Subject: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 08:07:51 -0700
WARNING!! GM's ONLY (so as I don't get in trouble or nothing for
posting them!). Since many of you have asked, I thought I'd send them on
the list.

Glenn
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These stats are a private responce, case you like to keep your secrets
secret.

Body: 22/12 Char: 10 Ess: 12!
Quickness: 11 x 3 Intel: 9 Magic: 20!
Strength: 48 Will: 12 React: 9
Initiative: 9 +2d6 Threat: 10
Attack Code: 16D, + 3 reach Lvl of Init: 12 + Type of magic: shamanic
Areas of knowledge: Magic, Media, Technology
Power: Enhanced Senses (wide band hearing, low-light vision, thermal sense),
Hardened Armor, Influence
Description: D is a silver- and blue-scaled great western dragon (Draco sapiens
(occidentalis)) aprrox. 48 m long including a 17 m tail. He stands just under
3 m in height at the shoulder and has a wingspan in excess of 30 m. His weight
has been estimated at aprox. 2,000 kg.

(note: this info is an approx based on causal obser. and limited sec. intell)

And if you want to read the article, its issue #199
Message no. 2
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 16:50:40 -0800
Any one notice the suggested TR for Big D? :)

Oops! lets see what was that again..."Unsubscribe shadowrn", or was it
"GET ME OFF YOUR STUPID LIST!".....

~Tim
Message no. 3
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 00:55:38 +0000
|
|Any one notice the suggested TR for Big D? :)
|
|Oops! lets see what was that again..."Unsubscribe shadowrn", or was it
|"GET ME OFF YOUR STUPID LIST!".....

Wimp....
you're forgetting that Dunkie was friendly......
Mostly.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 4
From: "Falin \"Dark-Claw\"" <jhyatt@****.WINCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:50:50 -0500
And to think He was supposedly killed.
Message no. 5
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 01:46:16 +0000
|
|And to think He was supposedly killed.
|

And what TR does old Harlequin have, pray tell?

The immortal elves are probably powerful enough to kill him.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: Joachim H A Buchert <avo_jb@**.HELSINKI.FI>
Subject: Re: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 04:00:00 +0200
> |And to think He was supposedly killed.
>
> And what TR does old Harlequin have, pray tell?
>
> The immortal elves are probably powerful enough to kill him.....

It seems I'm the only one. I thought Dunkie was rather low powered.

Initiate Grade 12+? Hrm. Lord Marchment (Lord Protector of England) is an
Initiate of Grade 10 (or slightly higher) and he hasn't lived for God
knows how long. Dunkie should be way higher. I always figured Harlequin's
"double digit" initiation grade was 20-30.

Threat rating 10 is well, killer, but I would have figured more. See Prime
Runners for Rhonabwhy (sp?) for measure. Also, Mr Darke (from Threats and
HB) has a TR of 9. Though he is supposed to be powerful, I think Dunkie
ought to be even more.

Of course, personally, I wouldn't use stats for Dunky. He's just too
good. :)

I'd like to see some major Horror stats in SR. Let's say Verjigorm, as an
example. Now that would be a major pain in the ass ..

- J -
Message no. 7
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 18:13:10 EST
On Tue, 31 Dec 1996 04:00:00 +0200 Joachim H A Buchert
<avo_jb@**.HELSINKI.FI> writes:
>> |And to think He was supposedly killed.
Ha-ha:)
>>
>> And what TR does old Harlequin have, pray tell?
Something ungodly high, you would think. After all, he's had a little
more time to practice (whether or not you can initiate when the mana's
low is debatable, but...) but you would think anyone who's lived through
at least one entire Age (or World, as you prefer) would have higher stats
than that.
>>
>> The immortal elves are probably powerful enough to kill him.....
Most likely. There are more of them, and they've probably been active at
least as long.
>
>It seems I'm the only one. I thought Dunkie was rather low powered.
So did I. Which is why I had never intended to actually use the stats.
I'll keep track of them as a curiosity, though:)
>
>Initiate Grade 12+? Hrm. Lord Marchment (Lord Protector of England) is
>an
>Initiate of Grade 10 (or slightly higher) and he hasn't lived for God
>knows how long. Dunkie should be way higher. I always figured
>Harlequin's
>"double digit" initiation grade was 20-30.
That's about what I'd figure. I'd think 7000+ years would be more than
enough time to initiate quite a bit:) I was planning an immortal NPC
(wasn't sure if I'd use him, but it seemed like such a novel idea I went
and wrote it down anyway:) with a Grade of 27...I think I'll be
downgrading him a bit:)
>
>Threat rating 10 is well, killer, but I would have figured more. See
>Prime
>Runners for Rhonabwhy (sp?) for measure. Also, Mr Darke (from Threats
>and
>HB) has a TR of 9. Though he is supposed to be powerful, I think
>Dunkie
>ought to be even more.
Oh, you'd think, and I agree.
>
>Of course, personally, I wouldn't use stats for Dunky. He's just too
>good. :)
Yeah, I'd think he'd be considered an Ultimate-level NPC (see the Sr
Companion) basically, roll dice till you have enough successes:)
>
>I'd like to see some major Horror stats in SR. Let's say Verjigorm, as
>an
>example. Now that would be a major pain in the ass ..
That's one way of putting it...Would be *fun* though, wouldn't it? I
suppose the Horrors are so named because the PC's have to change their
pants after running into one? Personally, I think it'd be nice to see,
but I don't htink FASA should publish it as a supplement. I'd say it
would be better to post them on the Net (no more than a few major
Horrors, though), because otherwise you'd wind up with an entire book
that might as well be titled "GM's Instant Death tool" because PC's
really shouldn't be up to facing a full-fledged Horror (I wouldn't think.
Haven't yet played HB...) I think it would be better to publish some sort
of Fourth World magic in SR book and provide any ED-crossover stuff
they're going to all at once (barring, of course, anything that would
give away future developments in SR's world). That, I would buy. A book
that was nothing but a run-down on the Horrors...that, I'd think hard
about, but I think they are better ways to spend money than on things
that I may (and most likely will) never need for plot developments. If
the SR game becomes nothing but fighting off Horrors day in and day out,
then it will have lost somewhat of that which makes it appealing. Might
as well play AD&D (I'm going to get flamed for that, I'm sure), though
most of what I know of AD&D comes from this list and other places that
are decidedly anti-T$R (though my one personal experience left much to be
desired).
>
> - J -
>
Canthros-the-shapeshifter-mage
Message no. 8
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 21:36:09 -0000
> And what TR does old Harlequin have, pray tell?
>
> The immortal elves are probably powerful enough to kill him.....

No need for a TR for Harley, I believe all GM notes for him just say he
does what ever the GM needs him to.

Yes, I take full advantage of this... ;o)

@>--'--,--- Loki

/>
/<
[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\< Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki
\>


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Message no. 9
From: Brian Johnson <john0375@****.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:08:03 -0600
On Dunkelzahn:
Is it me, or does the Magic:20, grade:12+, essense:12 imply that he's
been killed about 4+ times (Deadly damage, that is?)
Message no. 10
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:37:12 +0000
|
|On Dunkelzahn:
|Is it me, or does the Magic:20, grade:12+, essense:12 imply that he's
|been killed about 4+ times (Deadly damage, that is?)
|

Who's to know....
You might gain essense as you age, but at such a slow rate us mere mortals
never notice.....

Then again, he could have been in a few fights with Vampires or Vampiric
Horrors.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 11
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:08:40 -0800
On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, Brian Johnson wrote:

> On Dunkelzahn:
> Is it me, or does the Magic:20, grade:12+, essense:12 imply that he's
> been killed about 4+ times (Deadly damage, that is?)
>

No, it implies that he's lost 4 points of magic...

(BTW, doesn't that also resolve some question about whether Magic=Essence
that someone else mentioned in connection to Shape-shifters in a different
post? Because, unless I'm a comlete moron (the verdict isn't back yet..)
6+12 is certainly less than 20...of course if you don't feel that D is
capable of loosing 4 points of magic through the course of his life, then
I guess 8+12 and we're all wrong...the people as FASA have just decided
to not reveal to us the great mystic secret that is the method by which
ones magic rating is arrived at if one is not (meta)human...)

~Tim
Message no. 12
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 03:45:48 -0500
Brian Johnson wrote,
>On Dunkelzahn:
>Is it me, or does the Magic:20, grade:12+, essense:12 imply that he's
>been killed about 4+ times (Deadly damage, that is?)
>
Possible, or it's one of those 4th world/ 6th world conversions that
gave him those stats (i.e. they thought it looked good written up that
way). <shrug> No one could live so long without suffering the ravages of
time (and wouldbe Dragon-Slayers) is a pretty good explanation and does
sound better.




Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 13
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: The Big D's Stats from Dragon
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:48:54 -0500
Damn I just figured it out. Those stats are doctored up for the
cover up. It's all part of that conspiracy behind The Big D's "death".
It's just like JFK all over again. You would think that the conspiracy
would be better at cleaning it's tracks than this. Damn this could still
be a red herring to distract us from what really happened.

- MC23, Trideo Free Charlotte
"The Truth, a partial Truth, or something like the Truth."

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