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Message no. 1
From: jeremie.bouillon@****.fr (Jérémie_Bouillon)
Subject: The Christian Tradition (was Re: Shinto Tradition - beware:
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 07:54:50 +0200
Niels Kobschaetzki wrote:
> For strengthening their magic Priests and Priestess use usually the
> blood of virgins.

Not realistic enough. Should be kids.
Message no. 2
From: leisuree@*****.com (Edward D Leisure III)
Subject: The Christian Tradition (was Re: Shinto Tradition - beware:
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:24:12 -0400
>> For strengthening their magic Priests and Priestess use usually the
>> blood of virgins.
>
> Not realistic enough. Should be kids.
>
>
If one of my players is looking for a virgin, any suggestions on cost
and availability ? ;-)

Kids are easy to find....
Message no. 3
From: graht1@*****.com (Graht)
Subject: The Christian Tradition (was Re: Shinto Tradition - beware:
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 16:04:39 -0600
On 8/4/06, Edward D Leisure III <leisuree@*****.com> wrote:
>
> >> For strengthening their magic Priests and Priestess use usually the
> >> blood of virgins.
> >
> > Not realistic enough. Should be kids.
> >
> >
> If one of my players is looking for a virgin, any suggestions on cost
> and availability ? ;-)

Virgins are easy to find. Just go to any game/comic store ;)

--
-Graht
Message no. 4
From: zmjett@***.net (zmjett@***.net)
Subject: The Christian Tradition (was Re: Shinto Tradition - beware:
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 00:06:35 -0400
Edward D Leisure III wrote:

>
>>> For strengthening their magic Priests and Priestess use usually the
>>> blood of virgins.
>>
>>
>> Not realistic enough. Should be kids.
>>
>>
> If one of my players is looking for a virgin, any suggestions on cost
> and availability ? ;-)
>
> Kids are easy to find....
>
Would it be in poor taste to point out that kids usually ARE virgins?

...maybe so, but I am anyway.

--VMis
Message no. 5
From: caseless@*****.com (Stephen Allee)
Subject: The Christian Tradition (was Re: Shinto Tradition - beware:
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 09:27:54 +0430
Leaving aside the moral issues, I had a couple of suggestions.

I think cost and availability would depend on what you were looking for.
Street kids are probably an inexpensive resource. You could probably work
out a deal with your local Tamanous group. Say they charge a 2000¥ to 4000¥
deposit for the child. Depending on damage, they would probably pay 1d6 to
2d6 * 200¥ for the parts after you were done and handle the disposal of the
remains. Figure you would have a 5 in 6 chance that the kid is still a
virgin. As they got older, it would be more expensive and your odds of
getting a virgin would go down. There would be a limited market for dealing
in people with mental retardation, but you could try to acquire one through
hospitals and hospices. The cost would probably be higher because of the
paperwork involved. Say Availability 5, cost 20,000¥.

Now if you wanted a fully functional, above age of consent, blonde female,
you are basically getting into the realm of legend. Figure cost would be
Charisma * 15,000¥ish and availability would be (charisma * 3)/(charisma * 7
days) with charisma being the determining factor on how powerful the reults
of your spellcasting would be. Now, you could reduce the cost and
availability if you wanted this to be prevalent in your game, of course. Or,
your players could just do an extraction run on a daycare or local school if
they had the facilities to warehouse a group of your "fetishes" (bad pun
intended).

I just had a mental picture of the run:
A bunch of monks enter a school with automatic weapons. One of them has a
gynecologist hogtied and slung over their shoulders like a sack of potatoes.

I need to shower. Ick.


On 8/5/06, zmjett@***.net <zmjett@***.net> wrote:
>
> Edward D Leisure III wrote:
>
> >
> >>> For strengthening their magic Priests and Priestess use usually the
> >>> blood of virgins.
> >>
> >>
> >> Not realistic enough. Should be kids.
> >>
> >>
> > If one of my players is looking for a virgin, any suggestions on cost
> > and availability ? ;-)
> >
> > Kids are easy to find....
> >
> Would it be in poor taste to point out that kids usually ARE virgins?
>
> ...maybe so, but I am anyway.
>
> --VMis
>
>
Message no. 6
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: The Christian Tradition (was Re: Shinto Tradition - beware:
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 22:31:13 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: "Niels Kobschaetzki" <n.kobschaetzki@**********.com>
To: "Shadowrun Discussion" <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: The Christian Tradition (was Re: Shinto Tradition - beware: satire)


> Beware of satire - if you have strong problems with the satire of the
> christian religion *don't* read on. I warned you and I do not wanna see
> rants about the written stuff, it just shall show where the problem is if
> someone takes pre-defined terms and remodels them.
>
>
> The Christian Tradition is the most influential shamanistic tradition in
> the orient and western Europe.
> There are five main gods called the Father, the Holy Spirit, the Son, the
> Mother and the Holy Whore. Beyond these main gods are millions of lower
> gods called Angels. The Angels inherit everything in Nature. Priests and
> Priestess usually do not pray directly to the five main gods but bind
> themselves to at least five Angels. They often use tin gods to represent
> the Angels.
> The main gods will only come to action if someone needs punishment.
> Forgiveness is an unknown word in the Christian Tradition.
> For strengthening their magic Priests and Priestess use usually the blood
> of virgins. Because of those practices they are often compared to the
> Blood magicians from Aztlan.
>
>
> Niels
>
> P.s.: This one is playable ;)

You really found the take on Shinto that objectionable? Guess it could be.
--Anders
Message no. 7
From: n.kobschaetzki@**********.com (Niels Kobschaetzki)
Subject: The Christian Tradition (was Re: Shinto Tradition - beware:
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 09:11:13 +0200
On Aug 5, 2006, at 7:31 AM, Anders Swenson wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Niels Kobschaetzki"
> <n.kobschaetzki@**********.com>
> To: "Shadowrun Discussion" <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 10:07 PM
> Subject: The Christian Tradition (was Re: Shinto Tradition -
> beware: satire)
>
>
>> Beware of satire - if you have strong problems with the satire of
>> the christian religion *don't* read on. I warned you and I do not
>> wanna see rants about the written stuff, it just shall show where
>> the problem is if someone takes pre-defined terms and remodels them.
>>
>>

<snip Christian Tradition>

>> Niels
>>
>> P.s.: This one is playable ;)
>
> You really found the take on Shinto that objectionable? Guess it
> could be.

nope - the reason for this (the write-up of the christian tradition)
was the discussion that followed up on my problems with the Shinto
Tradition. Some put some effort in it to explain how it can come that
the designer ehm...mixed it a little bit up and even did comparisons
to Star Wars ("shadowrun is FICTION") which was counter-argued that
Shadowrun is based on the real world.
My base problem is that I have the feeling that game designers often
take pre-defined terms, like it happened with Shintô in SR or a lot
of stuff in L5R (where they at least state that it's not Japan but
why do they use then already existing terms), do a little bit of
research and then do a write-up -- messing up the original meaning of
term they used (I would have said something about the looking of the
"miko" which wears the make-up of a "geisha" - i just didn't because
my gf meant that this i somehow ok because it looks at least like
japan. it's not correct but the other stuff was fundamentally wrong).
For shintô is quite a good article in the wikipedia incl. serveral
references. Going to a university library or state library (that
would be the way I would do it in Berlin) should have done the job. I
do not want that there's an excellent and well-rounded explanation of
the stuff, I just want that it isn't fundamentally wrong.
People do not usually understand my problem with this. So I just took
something most of the list should know quite well and remodel it
(btw. the christian shamanic tradition is something different to
christianity -- just to remember on Grahts explanation). Remodel it
in a way that basically everyone will see - ey, that's wrong...wtf.
The reactions were a little bit different than I expected (ppl who
really think about prices for a virgin in 2070...ehem...).
I just wanted to show what my problem with the, it seems at least,
common practice of game designers is when it comes to areas which do
sound cool but where they have no idea what they are dealing with.
Why do they never try to find ppl who know about it? Can't be that
hard - espescially with a mainstream-RPG like Shadowrun. In the
community are enough fans who will willingly help and most of them
will say that it's enough for them that their name is in the book (in
Germany was this the way how they got all the additional drawings and
stuff in the gear-books of SR3).
The next problem with those wrong write-ups is that most of the
gamers know that RPG are fiction but think that the game-designer did
his job and what there's standing is correct.
The last time I played L5R I got to hear from one of the gamers that
I think too western - the only knowledge he had of Japan was from L5R-
rulebooks and movies ehem...just as an example.
Anyway - the "christian tradition" should only show what often
happens in RPGs and it was written exaggerated - it was a satire.
The only real consequence for me is that I will basically forbid
Shintô-based magically characters because it is unplayable (checklist
if you're allowed to do magic today: are you in harmony with your
environment? (there's a gunfight...i guess no) do you want to do harm
to anyone? do you had naughty thoughts today? if you're a woman do
you have you period?) and because I would have to explain the player
what Shintô really is). But because I am not that often a GM on cons
that won't be that big problem.

Have a nice day

Niels


--
Marty: [looking at the cloth] It's a key!
Jack Sparrow: No! Much more better. It is a drawing of a key.
Gentlemen, what do keys do?
-- Pirates of the Carribean: Dead Man's Chest
Message no. 8
From: mattness@**.pl (mattness@**.pl)
Subject: The Christian Tradition (was Re: Shinto Tradition - beware:
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 09:17:23 +0200
> Niels Kobschaetzki wrote:

>> For strengthening their magic Priests and Priestess useusually the
>> blood of virgins.

> Not realistic enough. Should be kids.

Nah. Infidelis. And add the Crusaders :)

---
mattness@**.pl
http://shadowrun.rpg.pl
http://cybernum.prv.pl
gg:4976496

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