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Message no. 1
From: Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.COM>
Subject: The cost of an arm and a leg
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:11:36 -0800
One of my players (a rigger) would like to put a
remote control deck into a cyberlimb. We decided
that would be fine for a cyber-forearm, and I
remembered that they were 0.75 essence (correct me if
I'm wrong), but I don't know what the cost is...
$65,000 rings a bell, but I'm not sure. Also, is
there a benefit (essence-wise) to putting a smartlink
into a cyber-forearm (I know a full arm cuts the
essence cost in half, but just the forearm...)?
Oog...I wish I could afford Cybertechnology...have
to get the Rigger 2 first, though.

Scott
==

Master,
Me and Rex took the kar to town.
Stay home! STAY!
ha ha ha ha
the dog

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Message no. 2
From: "XaOs [David Goth]" <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: The cost of an arm and a leg
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:37:51 -0600
> there a benefit (essence-wise) to putting a smartlink
> into a cyber-forearm (I know a full arm cuts the
> essence cost in half, but just the forearm...)?

I can answer this part off the top of my head... Yes, it'll give you the
benefit. Even just a cyber-hand will give you the essence discount on a
smartlink.

-XaOs-
xaos@*****.net
-David Goth-
Message no. 3
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The cost of an arm and a leg
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:21:16 -0600
On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:37:51 -0600 "XaOs [David Goth]" <xaos@*****.NET>
writes:
>> there a benefit (essence-wise) to putting a smartlink
>> into a cyber-forearm (I know a full arm cuts the
>> essence cost in half, but just the forearm...)?
>
>I can answer this part off the top of my head... Yes, it'll give you the
>benefit. Even just a cyber-hand will give you the essence discount on a
>smartlink.

Uhm ... Cybertechnology does not say that anywhere I can find. It makes
sense for a Smartlink, but not for a spur and cyberhand combo ... You
just have to use common sense. (Now, if only common sense were common ...
;)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"We called him Mother Superior because of the length of his habit" --
Trainspotting
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)
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Message no. 4
From: Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: The cost of an arm and a leg
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:15:21 -0600
: One of my players (a rigger) would like to put a
:remote control deck into a cyberlimb. We decided
:that would be fine for a cyber-forearm, and I
:remembered that they were 0.75 essence (correct me if
:I'm wrong), but I don't know what the cost is...
:$65,000 rings a bell, but I'm not sure. Also, is
:there a benefit (essence-wise) to putting a smartlink
:into a cyber-forearm (I know a full arm cuts the
:essence cost in half, but just the forearm...)?
: Oog...I wish I could afford Cybertechnology...have
:to get the Rigger 2 first, though.
:
:Scott

Its $70k and .65e. I'd say yes, even a hand would reduce the cost of
the SL, since the bulk of the item is in the palm link. Get R2- its up to
date for SR3. Then wait for MaM to come out, which should (according to
Mike, at Gencon'98) cover all the info in Cybertechnology, plus other
pesky questions, AND will have updates for SR3 of bioware and other
Shadotechnolgy items. Hey, its only a 8 month wait.

Mongoose
Message no. 5
From: "XaOs [David Goth]" <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: The cost of an arm and a leg
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:17:39 -0600
> >I can answer this part off the top of my head... Yes, it'll give you the
> >benefit. Even just a cyber-hand will give you the essence discount on a
> >smartlink.
>
> Uhm ... Cybertechnology does not say that anywhere I can find. It makes
> sense for a Smartlink, but not for a spur and cyberhand combo ... You
> just have to use common sense. (Now, if only common sense were common ...
> ;)

Well, I pretty much read it like this... "Hmm...cyberhands are described
under the section 'General Rules for Cyberlimbs', which also includes the
section describing the chart at the bottom of p. 49. It makes logical sense
to me, that '...In most cases, the Essence Cost of cyberware comes from the
neural interface and secondary connections that allow control of the
cyberware in question...'. Therefore, I'd surmise that they are meaning the
term 'cyberlimb' to be a general term describing the more traditional
cyberarms and cyberlegs, as well as cyberhands and cyberfeets."

I'd agree with you, that perhaps it doesn't make as much sense for
cyberhands to be able to get spurs at no essence cost. But mostly, that
would depend on how you would interpret 'Essence' and 'spur'. I mean, does
the spur come out of the back of the hand, or does it come out of the
forearm? Is it really necessary to lose essence, in order to have a tube in
your arm that your spur is housed in? At the very least, I'd advocate a
discount based on the electronics running from your cranium or spine to your
cyberhand.

But then again, is the spur extended based upon a
Peter-Parker-web-slinging-mechanical-flex, or is it based on a
neuro-electrical impulse (to throw around some Gibsonian pseudo-science
terms)?


-XaOs-
xaos@*****.net
-David Goth-
Message no. 6
From: Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: The cost of an arm and a leg
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:35:49 -0500
At 12:17 AM 1/20/99 -0600, XaOs [David Goth] wrote:
>
>I'd agree with you, that perhaps it doesn't make as much sense for
>cyberhands to be able to get spurs at no essence cost. But mostly, that
>would depend on how you would interpret 'Essence' and 'spur'. I mean, does
>the spur come out of the back of the hand, or does it come out of the
>forearm? Is it really necessary to lose essence, in order to have a tube in
>your arm that your spur is housed in? At the very least, I'd advocate a
>discount based on the electronics running from your cranium or spine to your
>cyberhand.
>
>But then again, is the spur extended based upon a
>Peter-Parker-web-slinging-mechanical-flex, or is it based on a
>neuro-electrical impulse (to throw around some Gibsonian pseudo-science
>terms)?

AFAIK, most spurs (in a biological arm) are stored in a synthetic myelin
sheath and extended and retracted by implanted, nerve-linked pseudo-muscles
triggered by a learned reflex. Most of the Essence cost seems to me to be
in implanting the spur casing into the arm and rigging the musculature.
Presumably, in a cyberarm it's just adding a mechanism to the arm and
learning a special reflex for the trigger through the arm's neural
interface. For a spur, then, I'd say that at least a forearm was needed.
Hand razors, OTOH, could easily fit into only a hand.

I'd probably also allow a smartlink to get the bonus with just a hand,
because the primary elements of the link are the induction pad in the hand
and the targeting chip and image link in the brain. The cyberarm bonus
probably refers to not having to implant the induction pad in the hand.


--
Starjammer - starjammer@**********.com - Marietta, GA

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death
that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it
to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn
the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be
nothing. Only I will remain."
-- Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Frank Herbert, Dune
Message no. 7
From: Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The cost of an arm and a leg
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:46:26 -0800
---"XaOs [David Goth]" <xaos@*****.NET> wrote:
>> there a benefit (essence-wise) to putting a
>> smartlink into a cyber-forearm (I know a full arm
>> cuts the essence cost in half, but just the
>> forearm...)?
>
> I can answer this part off the top of my head...
> Yes, it'll give you the benefit. Even just a
> cyber-hand will give you the essence discount on a
> smartlink.
> -XaOs-

Thank you very much! I try my damndest to keep on
top of FASA's quickly growing and ever-elusive line of
products, but starting so late means I just can't get
every book...this list is an invaluable resource when
it comes to little things like this. Thanks again!

Scott
==

Master,
Me and Rex took the kar to town.
Stay home! STAY!
ha ha ha ha
the dog

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
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Message no. 8
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The cost of an arm and a leg
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:20:27 EST
In a message dated 1/19/1999 5:33:17 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

>
> >I can answer this part off the top of my head... Yes, it'll give you the
> >benefit. Even just a cyber-hand will give you the essence discount on a
> >smartlink.
>
> Uhm ... Cybertechnology does not say that anywhere I can find. It makes
> sense for a Smartlink, but not for a spur and cyberhand combo ... You
> just have to use common sense. (Now, if only common sense were common ...
> ;)

There is something to consider as to *why* something costs essence
(additional) when it's in a cyberarm, and why it doesn't. Reduction in costs
apply here as well.

-K
Message no. 9
From: Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: The cost of an arm and a leg
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:40:08 -0600
:>> there a benefit (essence-wise) to putting a
:>> smartlink into a cyber-forearm (I know a full arm
:>> cuts the essence cost in half, but just the
:>> forearm...)?
:>
:> I can answer this part off the top of my head...
:> Yes, it'll give you the benefit.

: Thank you very much

<pout>
Oh, sure, thank XaOs, when I actually busted out the book and gave you
the correct cost for the forearm (which, afaik, nobody else bothered
with), instead of just whipping an opinion it out of my ass.
</pout>

Mongoose
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: The cost of an arm and a leg
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:51:30 +0100
According to Scott W, at 10:46 on 20 Jan 99, the word on
the street was...

> I try my damndest to keep on top of FASA's quickly growing and
> ever-elusive line of products, but starting so late means I just can't
> get every book...

Most Shadowrun books are still available, if you know where to look, and
of course, look for them long enough. Sprawl Maps is the only one I still
haven't been able to locate...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And that's as far as the conversation went.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Message no. 11
From: Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The cost of an arm and a leg
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:47:06 -0800
---Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM> wrote:
> Its $70k and .65e. I'd say yes, even a hand would
> reduce the cost of the SL, since the bulk of the
> item is in the palm link. Get R2- its up to date
> for SR3. Then wait for MaM to come out, which
> should (according to Mike, at Gencon'98) cover all
> the info in Cybertechnology, plus other pesky
> questions, AND will have updates for SR3 of bioware
> and other Shadotechnolgy items. Hey, its only a 8
> month wait.

:) And _then_ Mongoose wrote:

> <pout>
> Oh, sure, thank XaOs, when I actually busted out
> the book and gave you the correct cost for the
> forearm (which, afaik, nobody else bothered with),
> instead of just whipping an opinion it out of my
> ass.
> </pout>

Er, I'm really terribly sorry to hurt your feelings
like that...unfortunately, I can't be at the console
24hrs a day, replying quick as a wink to every
response ;) Patience, my child...
Apologies aside, I am actually very grateful to you
for pointing those errors out...you were a darn big
help, and my Rigger PC appreciates it too. Thank ye
kindly.

Scott
==

Master,
Me and Rex took the kar to town.
Stay home! STAY!
ha ha ha ha
the dog

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