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Message no. 1
From: rhoded01@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Ahzmandius)
Subject: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 01:23:09 -0600 (CST)
>That leads quickly to the GM vs. players mindset too easily, IMHO. My group
>plays to have fun, not as an example of how fast I can crush their
>characters, not usually anyways. ;-)

In life, we are never sure if the gods that be might, just for
shit-n-giggles, drop a truck on my puny head. The same rules go for
Shadowrun. I am not for a powermonger gm throwing a cyberzombie at the
characters because he can, but if a character gets out of hand, the strange
occurance of a gun actually jamming in a firefight as an attitude
adjustment. Mind probes should take the place of SOME legwork, but not
replace it.

On related note, in SRII you have Good Karma and Karma. What about BAD
Karma? In our group we have been tooling around with a bad karma concept. It
comes from unjust killings, cyberware, abuse of power, and general
hate-mongering. It is only visible to those few trained to see it (only 2
can currently see it). Vampires, wendigos, etc. have Buku bad K. This can
eventually have an adverse affect on the characters (gm's discression).

Comments?
Message no. 2
From: "Terry L. Amburgey" <xanth@********.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 10:11:00 -0400
>On related note, in SRII you have Good Karma and Karma. What about BAD
>Karma? In our group we have been tooling around with a bad karma concept. It
>comes from unjust killings, cyberware, abuse of power, and general
>hate-mongering. It is only visible to those few trained to see it (only 2
>can currently see it). Vampires, wendigos, etc. have Buku bad K. This can
>eventually have an adverse affect on the characters (gm's discression).
>
>Comments?

Sounds like it might be an interesting idea. What would the 'game effects'
of bad karma be? Terry

Terry L. Amburgey Email: xanth@***.uky.edu
Associate Professor Phone: (606) 257-7726
College of Business and Economics Fax: (606) 257-3577
University of Kentucky
Lexington, KY 40506-0034
Message no. 3
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:24:38 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, Ahzmandius wrote:

> On related note, in SRII you have Good Karma and Karma. What about BAD
> Karma? In our group we have been tooling around with a bad karma concept. It
> comes from unjust killings, cyberware, abuse of power, and general
> hate-mongering. It is only visible to those few trained to see it (only 2
> can currently see it). Vampires, wendigos, etc. have Buku bad K. This can
> eventually have an adverse affect on the characters (gm's discression).
>
> Comments?

Just one, but it's one I've made before. I have a hard time
cramming any kind of morality down my players throats. What exactly
constitutes an "unjust" killing? What constitutes a bad-karma-worthy
abuse of power or hate-mongering? And cyberware? Why is it bad karma to
augment or replace parts of your body?
A lot of people complain that their players are bloodthirsty
killing machines with no morals or scruples whatsoever. So? Who says
that shadowrunners have to be good people? Who says that they have to be
the post-modern day Robin Hoods of the Awakened World? Why can't they be
two-bit hustlers and thugs trying to get ahead in an uncaring world? Why
do they need to be good guys, capable of warm, touchy-feely benevolence?
Character morality should be a player choice, and as such should
not be subject to undue "punishment" by the GM. Yes, cold-blooded
killing tends to anger the populace at large, and will eventually cause
the authorities to build a file on you longer than your arm as a response
to public protest, but even that is punishment on its own. There's no
need to bring in a game mechanic that will further penalize people for
doing what's *in character* to do. Constantly doing good deeds and
shafting the corps for the good of the common man will cause the corps to
try to make the PC just as dead as the guy the cops are after, but they
don't get penalized, do they? Why should their less inhibited comrades?
Sorry for the rant.

Marc
Message no. 4
From: rhoded01@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Ahzmandius)
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 16:08:40 -0600 (CST)
I have a hard time cramming any kind of morality down my players throats.
What exactly
>constitutes an "unjust" killing? What constitutes a bad-karma-worthy
>abuse of power or hate-mongering? And cyberware? Why is it bad karma to
>augment or replace parts of your body?
> A lot of people complain that their players are bloodthirsty
>killing machines with no morals or scruples whatsoever. So? Who says
>that shadowrunners have to be good people? Who says that they have to be
>the post-modern day Robin Hoods of the Awakened World? Why can't they be
>two-bit hustlers and thugs trying to get ahead in an uncaring world? Why
>do they need to be good guys, capable of warm, touchy-feely benevolence?
> Character morality should be a player choice, and as such should
>not be subject to undue "punishment" by the GM. Yes, cold-blooded
>killing tends to anger the populace at large, and will eventually cause
>the authorities to build a file on you longer than your arm as a response
>to public protest, but even that is punishment on its own. There's no
>need to bring in a game mechanic that will further penalize people for
>doing what's *in character* to do. Constantly doing good deeds and
>shafting the corps for the good of the common man will cause the corps to
>try to make the PC just as dead as the guy the cops are after, but they
>don't get penalized, do they? Why should their less inhibited comrades?
> Sorry for the rant.
>
>Marc
>
Morality????? I am not jamming morality anywhere. The forces of the creative
and the destructive need to be balanced. We have positive karma, neutral
karma, and NOW bad karma. The character that blows away a shopkeep because
he wants to impress his buds get a bad karma point. This may not be adverse
to the character. This "game mechanic" only, realisticly, affects mages,
since mundanes cannot be astrally attacked.


Ahzmandius
Message no. 5
From: rhoded01@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Ahzmandius)
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 16:08:36 -0600 (CST)
Terry wrote:
>Sounds like it might be an interesting idea. What would the 'game effects'
>of bad karma be? Terry
>

Increased target numbers, background counts, bad luck, and astral assaults
from random baddies.

Ahzmandius
Message no. 6
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 01:32:38 +0000
On 5 Aug 96 at 1:23, Ahzmandius wrote:
> On related note, in SRII you have Good Karma and Karma. What about BAD
> Karma? In our group we have been tooling around with a bad karma concept. It
> comes from unjust killings, cyberware, abuse of power, and general
> hate-mongering. It is only visible to those few trained to see it (only 2
> can currently see it). Vampires, wendigos, etc. have Buku bad K. This can
> eventually have an adverse affect on the characters (gm's discression).
> Comments?
Hm, what would the "bad Karma" be for? Reroll all successes (GM's decision)?
Attract Essence-Drainers? Repulse them? Let pianos fall on one's head? There's
got to be somehing the bad Karma would be used for - what?

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 7
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 01:59:20 +0000
On 5 Aug 96 at 14:24, Marc A Renouf wrote:
[bad karma]
> Just one, but it's one I've made before. I have a hard time
> cramming any kind of morality down my players throats. What exactly
> constitutes an "unjust" killing? [big snip]
> Sorry for the rant.
*applaud*

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 8
From: gilean@****.muscanet.com (Kurt Montgomery)
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:47:46 -0500
>On 5 Aug 96 at 1:23, Ahzmandius wrote:
>> On related note, in SRII you have Good Karma and Karma. What about BAD
>> Karma? In our group we have been tooling around with a bad karma concept. It
>> comes from unjust killings, cyberware, abuse of power, and general
>> hate-mongering. It is only visible to those few trained to see it (only 2
>> can currently see it). Vampires, wendigos, etc. have Buku bad K. This can
>> eventually have an adverse affect on the characters (gm's discression).
>> Comments?
>Hm, what would the "bad Karma" be for? Reroll all successes (GM's decision)?

>Attract Essence-Drainers? Repulse them? Let pianos fall on one's head? There's
>got to be somehing the bad Karma would be used for - what?
>
> Sascha


How about, for starters, counteracting good karma.
Message no. 9
From: rhoded01@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Ahzmandius)
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 20:08:56 -0600 (CST)
>On 5 Aug 96 at 14:24, Marc A Renouf wrote:
>[bad karma]
>> Just one, but it's one I've made before. I have a hard time
>> cramming any kind of morality down my players throats. What exactly
>> constitutes an "unjust" killing? [big snip]
>> Sorry for the rant.
>*applaud*
>
> Sascha

Bad Karma is simply a measure of deeds. The kind of deeds that are generally
concidered disharmonious to the awakened world. Explain a background count
and why it is there? BAD KARMA!!! So here you go.... a cyberzombie with
mondo bad karma....hmmmm.....a mages worst nightmare. You can't target what
you can't see astrally, you can't throw a spell if your tn is 15, and you
ain't gonna talk to the baddie. Bad Karma isn't a punishment, any more than
fame is bad for runners. it just needs to be balanced. A way we have for
shedding bad K is to do ordeals or other things that initiates do. This, in
our game, is why initiation is so costly. Characters accrue bad karma for
virtually everything, but they must be aware of the negatives and the
positives for thier actions. Shadowrun isn't about hack-n-slash mayhem, it
is about running the shadows. READ the books, the rulebooks, the
modules(adventures), and understand the basic principles regarding magic in
SRII. This game doesn't have alignment, you don't have to worship gods, but
you do have to be realistic. All things return. If you think that this
constitutes "imposing morality", than you don't have to play with this added
dimension to the game. You can continue to bitch about "I can't control my
players" and "I don't understand background counts". You don't have to even
follow the rules. Bullets and fireballs can be the depth of your games.
Killing without reason, not using other options, and severe boredom can be
yours. If you want characters that can kill a dragon without taking damage,
and waltz through the most difficult run without planning, that is your
choice. Bad Karma adds a new level, increases thought and consequence, and
is a blast to gm with.

But you choose your own path,

Ahzmandius the Lizard King
Message no. 10
From: RAY MACEY <r.macey@*******.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 12:00:38 +1000 (EST)
On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, Ahzmandius wrote:

> >On 5 Aug 96 at 14:24, Marc A Renouf wrote:
> >[bad karma]
> >> Just one, but it's one I've made before. I have a hard time
> >> cramming any kind of morality down my players throats. What exactly
> >> constitutes an "unjust" killing? [big snip]
> >> Sorry for the rant.
> >*applaud*
> >
> > Sascha
>
[Big Snip bagging other people playing styles]

> But you choose your own path,
>
> Ahzmandius the Lizard King

I'm glad that you believe 'everything comes back'. Good on you. But keep
off your high and mighty pedastal when and quit bagging someone else for a
playing style you don't like. You don't even know how they play the game.
How do you know that playing in a game where the characters don't like
having to play with morals means that they are out of control?
Message no. 11
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:10:50 +0000
On 5 Aug 96 at 19:47, Kurt Montgomery wrote:
> >On 5 Aug 96 at 1:23, Ahzmandius wrote:
[idea of good karma]
Then I asked...
> >Hm, what would the "bad Karma" be for? [snip]

> How about, for starters, counteracting good karma.
For starters, are you saying bad people are more unlucky? And on which
decision? When? Sorry, doesn't make too much sense for me...

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 12
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:48:25 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, Ahzmandius wrote:

> Morality????? I am not jamming morality anywhere. The forces of the creative
> and the destructive need to be balanced. We have positive karma, neutral
> karma, and NOW bad karma. The character that blows away a shopkeep because
> he wants to impress his buds get a bad karma point. This may not be adverse
> to the character. This "game mechanic" only, realisticly, affects mages,
> since mundanes cannot be astrally attacked.

But in effect you are penalizing behavior that you deem "bad" by
having the character accrue points of bad karma that presumably have some
negative side-effect. My point is that Karma by itself (in Shadowrun
terminology) is merely a measure of experience and expertise, not a moral
guage. If you are using Bad Karma, perhaps characters should be able to
spend it like normal to raise skills, as someone who routinely butchers
innocent people will eventually become quite good at it. Make sense?

Marc
Message no. 13
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:45:14 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, Ahzmandius wrote:

[snip explanation of bad karma]

> Shadowrun isn't about hack-n-slash mayhem, it
> is about running the shadows. READ the books, the rulebooks, the
> modules(adventures), and understand the basic principles regarding magic in
> SRII.

What makes you think I have not done this thing? Why do you
assume I am ignorant because I do not happen to agree with you? My lack
of comment on the magical topics of FAB, background count, grounding
through quickenings, etc. is not based on ignorance but on experience.
I've been on this list long enough (three years) to know that such
discussion are pointless and generally descend into the realm of flame
wars, much like the one you are trying to start by bandying around
insults to our intelligence.

> This game doesn't have alignment, you don't have to worship gods, but
> you do have to be realistic. All things return.

If there is no "alignment" then why can only good karma be used
to increase skills? Why do you *have* to be good to gain experience?
And what exactly are the criteria for getting bad karma? Whom or what
must you hurt? People? Nature? The universe? How exactly does one do
that? Is killing necessarily bad karma? What if the character feels the
killing is justified?
My point is not that your system is stupid or inferior, merely
that it forces players to act a certain way to advance in their chosen
professions. If a mage could initiate with Bad Karma and "go toward the
dark side" then that would be cool, but from your descriptions, bad karma
sounds like nothing more than an arbitrary GM assigned penalty.

> If you think that this constitutes "imposing morality", than you don't
> have to play with this added dimension to the game.

Certainly true. But you asked for comments in your original
post. Don't get huffy and defensive when I give them. I'm not insulting
you, why do you feel the need to insult me?

> You can continue to bitch about "I can't control my players" and "I
> don't understand background counts".

Okay, full stop. You don't know jack about me, or my campaign.
Have you *ever* heard me say that I was unable to "control" my players or
that I didn't understand background count? No. Those of you who've been
on the list for some time *know* that I'm quite outspoken about working
*with* the players and keeping campaigns from getting out of hand. It's
something I've been doing for a *long* time.
(Aside)
By the way, my take on background count has to do with *emotion*,
not a good or bad concept of Karma. How would *you* explain the
background count associated with festivals, religious ceremonies, and
concerts? Would you have characters that have an excess of one kind of
karma or the other carry around a background count with them? So you
see, my thoughts explain background count as well as yours, fit within
the overall theme of the game, and don't require another game mechanic.
No problems with background count here. (End of aside)

> You don't have to even follow the rules. Bullets and fireballs can be
> the depth of your games.

Again, full stop. As before, you know exactly dick. I've been
running a solid, intricate, detailed, subtle, and entertaining campaign
for the last five years *continuously*. That doesn't happen unless
people find it worth their while to participate in it. Don't spout to me
about bullets and fireballs being my depth from a position of total
ignorance. If you want to rectify your social faux pas, let's swap original
source material sometime and see.

> Killing without reason, not using other options, and severe boredom can be
> yours. If you want characters that can kill a dragon without taking damage,
> and waltz through the most difficult run without planning, that is your
> choice.

I'm the last person who has that problem, trust me. Sometimes my
players plan too extensively. And as far as taking on huge opponents
with no damage, perhaps you should read my (many) submissions to the list
on how to make less powerful foes *extremely* dangerous to even seasoned
runners without upping the relative "arms race" scenario that can develop
in some campaigns.

> Bad Karma adds a new level, increases thought and consequence, and
> is a blast to gm with.

Thought and consequences come by themselves with good GMing.
Players should *always* have at least some part of their mind on the
consequences of their actions. Some consequences are acceptable, others
are not. Some are unavoidable. But you mistakenly assume that I need
your house rule to import this concept of cause and effect in my game. I
do not.
But, hey, if it's fun, go with it. That's the name of the game,
and if you and your players like it, then by all means use it. I do not
mean to begrudge you your fun.
My point was not to call you stupid or in any way offend your
sensibilities. You asked for comments, so I gave my take on the more
subtle ramifications of your house rule. You have yet to actually refute
*any* of my points directly, and have chosen instead to attack me and the
way I run my campaign from a position of ignorance. That's your choice.
Next time, if you don't want honest comments, don't ask for them. Also,
just for the record, I'm not angry at you personally nor do I harbor any
dislike for you. I just wish you would keep your points to the
discussion at hand rather than degenerating into competency slurs. If
you have any further disagreement with me, or if you would like to
clarify your points, or allow me to more carefully explain mine, perhaps
you should reply to me via private e-mail so we don't cone vast amounts
of bandwidth and subject the entire list to our differences.

> But you choose your own path,

Always.

Marc
Message no. 14
From: rhoded01@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Ahzmandius)
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 19:34:23 -0600 (CST)
>
>
>On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, Ahzmandius wrote:
>
>> Morality????? I am not jamming morality anywhere. The forces of the creative
>> and the destructive need to be balanced. We have positive karma, neutral
>> karma, and NOW bad karma. The character that blows away a shopkeep because
>> he wants to impress his buds get a bad karma point. This may not be adverse
>> to the character. This "game mechanic" only, realisticly, affects
mages,
>> since mundanes cannot be astrally attacked.
>
> But in effect you are penalizing behavior that you deem "bad" by
>having the character accrue points of bad karma that presumably have some
>negative side-effect. My point is that Karma by itself (in Shadowrun
>terminology) is merely a measure of experience and expertise, not a moral
>guage. If you are using Bad Karma, perhaps characters should be able to
>spend it like normal to raise skills, as someone who routinely butchers
>innocent people will eventually become quite good at it. Make sense?
>
I understand this point. I don't want to hurt the players, just add new facets.

Ahz
Message no. 15
From: rhoded01@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Ahzmandius)
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 19:34:32 -0600 (CST)
>
>I've been on this list long enough (three years) to know that such
>discussion are pointless and generally descend into the realm of flame
>wars, much like the one you are trying to start by bandying around
>insults to our intelligence.

I wasn't pointing you out in particular. Just the trends I have seen on this
list. I have been playing SRII since '90. I like it or I wouldn't play it. I
feel that it is our job, the players/gm's, to try to expand the game how we
can. The discussions on the subjects shouldn't result in flames, with this I
agree.

> If there is no "alignment" then why can only good karma be used
>to increase skills? Why do you *have* to be good to gain experience?
>And what exactly are the criteria for getting bad karma? Whom or what
>must you hurt? People? Nature? The universe? How exactly does one do
>that? Is killing necessarily bad karma? What if the character feels the
>killing is justified?

That is for the individule GM's and players to decide how they want to
structure their worlds.

> My point is not that your system is stupid or inferior, merely
>that it forces players to act a certain way to advance in their chosen
>professions. If a mage could initiate with Bad Karma and "go toward the
>dark side" then that would be cool, but from your descriptions, bad karma
>sounds like nothing more than an arbitrary GM assigned penalty.

It is not a mechanic or a statistic, just a roleplaying tool.


> (Aside)
> By the way, my take on background count has to do with *emotion*,
>not a good or bad concept of Karma. How would *you* explain the
>background count associated with festivals, religious ceremonies, and
>concerts? Would you have characters that have an excess of one kind of
>karma or the other carry around a background count with them? So you
>see, my thoughts explain background count as well as yours, fit within
>the overall theme of the game, and don't require another game mechanic.
>No problems with background count here. (End of aside)

Sure, that is the excepted concept, but what about places where murders have
occured? Perhaps that both emotion and residule bad k can cause background
counts? Possible?

> Again, full stop. As before, you know exactly dick.

I have not been targeting you, just the threads on the list.

> I've been running a solid, intricate, detailed, subtle, and entertaining
campaign
>for the last five years *continuously*. That doesn't happen unless
>people find it worth their while to participate in it. Don't spout to me
>about bullets and fireballs being my depth from a position of total
>ignorance. If you want to rectify your social faux pas, let's swap original
>source material sometime and see.

If you do, than that is great. Whatever.


> My point was not to call you stupid

Read your comments again and think about what you just said.
> or in any way offend your
>sensibilities. You asked for comments, so I gave my take on the more
>subtle ramifications of your house rule. You have yet to actually refute
>*any* of my points directly, and have chosen instead to attack me and the
>way I run my campaign from a position of ignorance.

Again....I did not say "the way Marc plays...."

> That's your choice.
>Next time, if you don't want honest comments, don't ask for them.

I wanted input....constructive input, with solutions or new ideas.


I want constructive comments, not just "that is stupid".

Ahzmandius
Message no. 16
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 08:13:20 +1000 (EST)
[snip big BAD KARMA debate]


Assuming the using-bad-karma-to-neutralise-good-karma school of thought
is functioning here:

This idea could work as a roleplaying tool if the GM awards the bad karma
independantly for each player based on what that character is meant to be
like - a hardened ex-criminal (ie my ex-prostitute and enforcer
rigger/sam) is not going to have as many qualms about blowing away a
semi-innocent (hey, who's innocent these days?) than say, Joker's
character, an ex-cop who is not yet too hardened and blase. Blowing away
a semi-innocent would not cause my character much anguish, but it would
certainly upset Wall (the ex-cop) and incite a state of mental anguish
and confusion, preventing him from fully utilising all his Good Karma
award. This system would work, provided the GM were careful to remember
the personalities and backgrounds for all the characters.

The other way of doing it, having "Bad Karma" mucking up the sufferer's
aura... well, I don't know whether or not you can legitimise the idea,
but if you can -

Sufferers! Do you remember that little discussion initiated by, I think,
silhouette, about changing your aura...?

I don't think this email went anywhere. Never mind :)

Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
"There are worse things than death...
and I can do all of them." - The Plague
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 17
From: SINless@**.netcom.com (Ross Hammer)
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 00:24:52 -0700
>
>On related note, in SRII you have Good Karma and Karma. What about BAD
>Karma? In our group we have been tooling around with a bad karma
concept. It
>comes from unjust killings, cyberware, abuse of power, and general
>hate-mongering. It is only visible to those few trained to see it
(only 2
>can currently see it). Vampires, wendigos, etc. have Buku bad K. This
can
>eventually have an adverse affect on the characters (gm's
discression).
>
>Comments?
>

I like it! <eViL GM grin!> This would certainly help control the PC's
that tend to ruin the game for others... on the other hand, it has the
potential to take away from some of the more creative role playing...
it depends on the character, somewhat...

-SINless
Message no. 18
From: "Terry L. Amburgey" <xanth@********.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: The Good, the Bad, and the stupid!
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:10:02 -0400 (EDT)
At 12:24 AM 8/8/96 -0700, you wrote:
>I like it! <eViL GM grin!> This would certainly help control the PC's
>that tend to ruin the game for others... on the other hand, it has the
>potential to take away from some of the more creative role playing...
>it depends on the character, somewhat...
>
>-SINless

Heh. Another vote for bad karma as a character control mechanism. Terry

Terry L. Amburgey
Associate Professor of Management
College of Business and Economics
University of Kentucky
Lexington, KY 40506-0034
Phone: 606-257-7726
Fax: 606-257-3577

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