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Message no. 1
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: The Great Lie
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:35:35 +0100
The Great Lie
by Paolo Marcucci and Digger
----------------------------

Warning: This speculation can SERIOUSLY affect the way by which you see the
Shadowrun universe. Many believe that the FASA universes are unrelated, and
only
some thing in Earthdawn can make sense in the sixth world of Shadowrun.
Don't be
fooled by that: Earthdawn IS Shadowrun IS Battletech. No question about this.

Anyway, let's see this theory....

World #0 - Extra-planar struggle

At the beginning of time in our universe, two fourth dimensional beings are
locked in a power struggle across existance planes. These beings are beyond
our
comprehension, so let's give them two names, simple enough for us to barely
understand their motivations and actions: the Enforcer and the Criminal.

Ultimately, the Enforcer manages to get hold of the Criminal, and a council
of
judges comdamn it to an eternal prison, called the Earth. There it will be
reduced to a three dimensional being and thus unable to leave the sphere of
influence of the planet. The council also order to the Enforcer to bring the
Criminal to its punishment and leave immediately.

As soon as the Criminal reaches the Earth, it attacks the Enforcer on the
physical plane and make it loss its four dimensionality, effectively
locking him
to the planet too.

The fight goes on. For ages.

World #1 - Battlefield: Earth

Tired from the fight, both the Enforcer and the Criminal retreat. The
Criminal
manages to hide itself underwater, making it unvisible to the Enforcer
abilities
by the growing life forms that are starting to fill the oceans.

Thousands of years passed, as the Criminal recognizes that this life
surrounding
it could eventually develop into something able to build the means to
getting it
back to its plane of existance. The Enforcer recognizes it too, but also
understands that this will take millions of years to be effective. Bored to
death by this desolate planet, it decides to create some copies of itself.

Calling them Dragons.

World #2 - Of Dragons and Monsters

The Earth is ruled by Dragons that can use the incredible powers given them
by
the Enforcer. Divisions start to appear like crack on a wall among them, and
several factions starts to dominate separate regions of the planet. Small
fights
are brought up but quickly settled down by the Enforcer. This world is too
unstable, so the Enforcer starts to look into something that can act as glue
among the Dragons and finally find it: a new species, called humans.

Meanwhile, from the deep of the ocean, the Criminal is trying to call help
from
the metaplanes. Terrible energies, able to scorch the Earth and, hopefully,
the
Enforcer along the road.

World #3 - The Big Sleep

This Earth planet has some strange cycles, every few thousand of years, the
inherent energy of the planet is able to support the powers of the beings
on its
surface, then, slowly and predictably, these energies fade out and the
supernatural abilities vanish. Now, the Criminal, the Enforcer and all its
copies are forced to slow down their activities and have some rest. The
energy
level is simply not high enough to support them.

The humans, on the other hand, are not bounded by this rise and fall of vital
energy, and continue in their evolution.

World #4 - Elves ahoy!

As soon as the energy level was high enough again, all the dormant beings
woke
up. They find a Earth where the humankind has spread wherever. Different
races
had evolved from the rude, monkey-like beings of the previous age, but no one
would be able to help the Enforcer in its plans. So it goes creating a new
one,
called elves. This should be the race, the elect ones. To further the quick
evolution of elves, the Enforcer itself assumed the identity of one of
them, a
red-hair young elf, but it couldn't keep always that look and had to revert
to
its orginal form from time to time.

The evil energies called by the Criminal finally arrived to the Earth. They
was
quickly dubbed Horrors as horror was their weapon. Those beings feeded on the
terror and the fear they inspired, and the elves found that, to survive, they
had to provoke themselves terrible pain and fear, making the Horrors divert
their attention elsewhere. A ruthless, painful ritual was adopted, and those
elves with strong enough had their skin devastated by thorns.

World #5 - Mankind and other amenities

Eventually energy levels went down again, taking with them Horrors and the
other
powerful beings. Humans remained alone on the surface of the planet. The
Criminal went dormant again under the safe cover of the Atlantic ocean,
right in
front of the New England coast, and the Enforcer managed to survive the 5th
world by keeping the elven form and assuming several identities of rich and
influential men.

At the end of the 5th world, with the approaching of the return of an energy
level high enough, the Criminal restarted its activities, geared to stop the
Enforcer ability to return to its original place. During the 20th century,
the
Criminal sent its minions on the landmass to kill and paralyze with terror
those
who were close to find the truth and to give the Enforcer its victory.
Terrible
creatures raised from the deep, feeding on the sanity itself of the humans.

World #6 - Per aspra ad astra

Meanwhile, the Enforcer developed some serious split personality problems,
shifting continuously from its original form to the human/elvish one. Shortly
after the start of the Criminal activities, the two forms begun to exist
together, a double but unique being, aware of its status. On the early 21st
century, the Earth population finally saw the Enforcer's original form, and
they
called it a dragon, a silver and blue dragon.

The Criminal didn't suffered from these problems, focused as it was in
plaguing
mankind trying to stop the technological advancements that could make the
Enforcer's travel back home possible. The Black Plague, HIV, world wide wars,
nuclear weapons, the matrix crash of 2029, the VITAS outbreak came all from
the
same source.

But mankind, aided by the Enforcer, managed to develop itself. A new breed of
humans, the Otakus, were born, humans able to meld their minds with the
intelligent machines, and capable to stepping up the advancements needed by
the
Enforcer. Men and machines became more and more the same, Artificial
Intelligences took part in political world summits.

The Criminal finally found a way to return to its original place and, aided
by
weak, but still terrible, Horror-like beings, started to build a "bridge" in
order to encompass the space between the Earth and its native plane. The
Enforcer, disguided with its elven features, contacted somehumans and sent
them
to stop this building process, sometimes with success but sometimes failing
miserably. It knew that only the technology could help mankind against a
return
of the Horrors.

More than a thousand years later.

Mankind has conquered the stars. Great, powerful battle machines were
built, but
the Criminal managed to destroy the knowledge and the secrets needed to build
them. Humans were stuck with those few remaining giant robots called Mechs.
Culture and society were kept alive only by small outposts of brave humans.

But a new hope came.

Piloted by semi-supernatural beings arrived from the Outer Sphere,
descendants
of the Otakus, new Mechs are joining mankind and the Enforcer itself in the
battle against the ultimate evil...

____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-360630
Message no. 2
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:51:14 -0500
On Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 04:35:35PM +0100, Paolo Marcucci wrote:
> The Great Lie
> by Paolo Marcucci and Digger
> ----------------------------
>
> Warning: This speculation can SERIOUSLY affect the way by which you see the
> Shadowrun universe. Many believe that the FASA universes are unrelated, and
> only
> some thing in Earthdawn can make sense in the sixth world of Shadowrun.
> Don't be
> fooled by that: Earthdawn IS Shadowrun IS Battletech. No question about this.
>
Woah! Interesting thread, but I think you guys have way too much
free time. :) Hope FasaMike reads this, he'll get a kick out of it.


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people are alive, only because its illegal to kill them.
Message no. 3
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:16:46 +0100
>The Great Lie
>by Paolo Marcucci and Digger
>----------------------------
>
>Warning: This speculation can SERIOUSLY affect the way by which you see the
>Shadowrun universe. Many believe that the FASA universes are unrelated, and
>only
>some thing in Earthdawn can make sense in the sixth world of Shadowrun.
>Don't be
>fooled by that: Earthdawn IS Shadowrun IS Battletech. No question about this.
>
> [skip text]
>
>Thousands of years passed, as the Criminal recognizes that this life
>surrounding
>it could eventually develop into something able to build the means to
>getting it
>back to its plane of existance. The Enforcer recognizes it too, but also
>understands that this will take millions of years to be effective. Bored to
>death by this desolate planet, it decides to create some copies of itself.
>
>Calling them Dragons.

According to ed background, Verjigorm is the Enforcer. :)

>
> [continue skiping]
>
>But a new hope came.
>
>Piloted by semi-supernatural beings arrived from the Outer Sphere,
>descendants
>of the Otakus, new Mechs are joining mankind and the Enforcer itself in the
>battle against the ultimate evil...

It was a nice read. Cool.


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 4
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:14:45 +0100
At 17:16 30/01/98 +0100, William Gallas said:
>>Calling them Dragons.
>
>According to ed background, Verjigorm is the Enforcer. :)

You mean that Verjigorm, Harlequin and Dunkelzahn are the same?

Brrr.....
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-360630
Message no. 5
From: Scott Roberts <shayd@********.NET>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:40:05 -0500
On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, William Gallas wrote:

> > [skip text]
> >
> >Thousands of years passed, as the Criminal recognizes that this life
> >surrounding
> >it could eventually develop into something able to build the means to
> >getting it
> >back to its plane of existance. The Enforcer recognizes it too, but also
> >understands that this will take millions of years to be effective. Bored to
> >death by this desolate planet, it decides to create some copies of itself.

I don't buy Harlequin and Dunk etc. being the same person :)
> >
> > [continue skiping]
> >
> >But a new hope came.
> >
> >Piloted by semi-supernatural beings arrived from the Outer Sphere,
> >descendants
> >of the Otakus, new Mechs are joining mankind and the Enforcer itself in the
> >battle against the ultimate evil...
>
> It was a nice read. Cool.

It was a nice read. I don't buy the Battletech link for one simple
reason: Actual virtual-reality Battletech centers exist in Seattle :) (see
your Seattle sourcebook), and the history of the Inner Sphere and the Star
League delves back to before 2058, which is different in the BTech
universe than it is in the Shadowrun universe.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You Don't Like My Point Of View, You Think That I'm Insane..."
Scott "Shayd" Roberts
shayd@**.cybernex.net ** http://www.cybernex.net/shayd
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:36:19 -0600
On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Scott Roberts wrote:


> It was a nice read. I don't buy the Battletech link for one simple
> reason: Actual virtual-reality Battletech centers exist in Seattle :) (see
> your Seattle sourcebook), and the history of the Inner Sphere and the Star
> League delves back to before 2058, which is different in the BTech
> universe than it is in the Shadowrun universe.

He we cant help it some SF writer/programer got it right for once. If you
have an infinit number of monkeys typing on typewriters one is bound to
predict the next World Cup:).

As for the changed history, well how do you know that comstar(minions of
the Criminal dont ya know) didnt just change the history books. They are
the only one with any real knowledge and could have used ROM to proactivly
change/destroy other peoples copies....

Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
tmprice@***********.com
Message no. 7
From: Jker77@***.COM
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:21:27 EST
Thought it was a nice read too, but what do you base this on? I've been out
of Shadowrun for about a year, and am slowly getting back in, so if any of
this can be traced to sourcebooks or novels which ones are they?

Thanks,

J. Kerman
Message no. 8
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:18:23 PST
>At 17:16 30/01/98 +0100, William Gallas said:
>>>Calling them Dragons.
>>
>>According to ed background, Verjigorm is the Enforcer. :)
>
>You mean that Verjigorm, Harlequin and Dunkelzahn are the same?


Nice thread, Paolo :)
I don't think the Big D and Harlequin are that power- at least to be
called "cosmic" proportions. I would consider the "Criminal" and the
"Enforcer" to be Passions vs. the more powerful Horrors- but that's
getting too "EarthDawny" isn't it?
After all, in one of the stories by Dowd featuring Harlequin,
Vestrial(or who seems to be Vestrial) visits him, and Harlequin fails
time and time again to dispell him...

-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com><ICQ 4297972>
___________________________________________________________
¹vag·a·bond \va-ge-bänd\ adj. 1: wandering, homeless
2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or tramp 3: leading an unsettled or irresponsible life

²vagabond n: one leading a vagabond life; esp : tramp
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 9
From: David Lightfinger <lightfinger@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:43:50 -0600
Damon Harper wrote:
>
> >At 17:16 30/01/98 +0100, William Gallas said:
> >>>Calling them Dragons.
> >>
> >>According to ed background, Verjigorm is the Enforcer. :)
> >
> >You mean that Verjigorm, Harlequin and Dunkelzahn are the same?
>
> Nice thread, Paolo :)
> I don't think the Big D and Harlequin are that power- at least to be
> called "cosmic" proportions. I would consider the "Criminal" and
the
> "Enforcer" to be Passions vs. the more powerful Horrors- but that's
> getting too "EarthDawny" isn't it?
> After all, in one of the stories by Dowd featuring Harlequin,
> Vestrial(or who seems to be Vestrial) visits him, and Harlequin fails
> time and time again to dispell him...

Digger has based his campaign on this theory. I like it, as it is
completely off the trail of what FASA is leading down. Note, though,
that my campaign in which Digger plays does not follow this theory :-)

This is his campaign and the way he wants to run SR. My campaign is
probably more 'true' to the FASA novels/sourcebooks, but even I have put
in twists. Maybe soon I will expound on my campaign, and the theories
behind it :-)

--Lightfinger
Message no. 10
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:28:34 -0800
At 4:35 PM 1/30/98, Paolo Marcucci wrote:
<snip>

>World #5 - Mankind and other amenities
>
>Eventually energy levels went down again, taking with them Horrors and the
>other
>powerful beings. Humans remained alone on the surface of the planet. The
>Criminal went dormant again under the safe cover of the Atlantic ocean,
>right in
>front of the New England coast,

Innsmouth and the Cult of Dagon in SR? I like it.

D.

David R. Lowe (dlowe@*********.com)
Photography/Design

Hey, there's a URL in my sig file now!
Check it out at: www.lowephoto.com.

--
GC3.1 GCA$ d- s: a- C++++ U P L E? W+ N++ o K? w-- O- M++$ V--
PS++ PE Y+ PGP- t 5 X+ R+++$ tv- b++ DI++ D--- G++ e++ h--- r++ u+
--
Message no. 11
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:14:08 +0000
And verily, did Paolo Marcucci hastily scribble thusly...

SPOILERS FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE PLAYING IN THIS IN THE FUTURE>>>>>





























|Humans remained alone on the surface of the planet. The
|Criminal went dormant again under the safe cover of the Atlantic ocean,
|right in front of the New England coast,

AI AI CTHULU CTHULU!!!!

|and the Enforcer managed to survive the 5th
|world by keeping the elven form and assuming several identities of rich and
|influential men.

Nodens mayhap? AKA Harlequin?

|At the end of the 5th world, with the approaching of the return of an energy
|level high enough, the Criminal restarted its activities, geared to stop the
|Enforcer ability to return to its original place. During the 20th century,
|the
|Criminal sent its minions on the landmass to kill and paralyze with terror
|those
|who were close to find the truth and to give the Enforcer its victory.
|Terrible
|creatures raised from the deep, feeding on the sanity itself of the humans.

I take it you like CoC....
:)

Deep ones in Shadowrun indeed....


|World #6 - Per aspra ad astra
|
|Meanwhile, the Enforcer developed some serious split personality problems,
|shifting continuously from its original form to the human/elvish one. Shortly
|after the start of the Criminal activities, the two forms begun to exist
|together, a double but unique being, aware of its status. On the early 21st
|century, the Earth population finally saw the Enforcer's original form, and
|they
|called it a dragon, a silver and blue dragon.

Oh! Not Harly... Dunky!

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 12
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 20:54:04 +0000
On 30 Jan 98 at 16:35, Paolo Marcucci wrote:

[SNIP!]

LOL!


> Piloted by semi-supernatural beings arrived from the Outer Sphere,
> descendants
> of the Otakus, new Mechs are joining mankind and the Enforcer itself in the
> battle against the ultimate evil...

Errr.....Dunkelzahn == Harley == Ulric Kerensky? (Anybody see the
similarity between Dunky and Ulrics death?)

ROTFLMAO!

Man, this is great!

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 13
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:48:26 -0500
Paolo Marcucci once dared to write,

>More than a thousand years later.
>
>Mankind has conquered the stars. Great, powerful battle machines were
>built, but
>the Criminal managed to destroy the knowledge and the secrets needed to build
>them. Humans were stuck with those few remaining giant robots called Mechs.
>Culture and society were kept alive only by small outposts of brave humans.
>
>But a new hope came.
>
>Piloted by semi-supernatural beings arrived from the Outer Sphere,
>descendants
>of the Otakus, new Mechs are joining mankind and the Enforcer itself in the
>battle against the ultimate evil...

Weak... And where did the magic go? If your time line was correct
then Magic should be an even stronger and more understood force in the BT
universe. Suspension of disbelief is lost when you ask us to believe
magic has just been forgotten about or viewed as not important.
In short, the two game universes are only joined if you want it and
you make it so by extensively rewriting the time line to make serious
adjustments for the Shadowrun universe. And that does not appeal to me at
all.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are,
not as they ought to be."
-The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce

I am MC23
Message no. 14
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:17:21 EST
In a message dated 98-02-03 16:52:41 EST, mc23@**********.COM writes:

> Weak... And where did the magic go? If your time line was correct
> then Magic should be an even stronger and more understood force in the BT
> universe. Suspension of disbelief is lost when you ask us to believe
> magic has just been forgotten about or viewed as not important.
> In short, the two game universes are only joined if you want it and
> you make it so by extensively rewriting the time line to make serious
> adjustments for the Shadowrun universe. And that does not appeal to me at
> all.
>
In defense of Paolo on this one, magic might have become far more understood,
enough to know that the Horrors would finally have made it across after the
1,000 year mark, and mankind had left earth to save itself from the travesty
(that magic dead zone known as Outer Space has it's potential) after all.
Now, the magic may have started its decline and mankind is starting to return
and reclaim what is it's own. Who knows what secrets are stored up by "the
descendants of the Otaku"...remember, Hermetic Libraries can be stored
digitally...and when combined with a Living Persona....pondering...yep,
ideas... MC23, look at the idea for the direction is really is...
-K
Message no. 15
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:13:11 -0500
J. Keith Henry once dared to write,

> MC23, look at the idea for the direction is really is...

???

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say there but Paolo's
posts seemed like he was trying to prove the three games share the same
time line which they don't. As far as changing BT's time line, go ahead I
don't have an interest in that game at all. I did want to say that such
concept has deep consequences on the entire BT time line. The magic cycle
is roughly 3200 years so the peak wouldn't have even hit in the BT line.
That means a lot. You can't rewrite a little of it, you have to do a lot.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"Say what you mean, and say it mean!"
-Scraping Foetus off the Wheel, Ramrod

I am MC23
Message no. 16
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:34:02 EST
In a message dated 98-02-04 01:17:18 EST, mc23@**********.COM writes:

>
> ???
>
> I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say there but Paolo's
> posts seemed like he was trying to prove the three games share the same
> time line which they don't. As far as changing BT's time line, go ahead I
> don't have an interest in that game at all. I did want to say that such
> concept has deep consequences on the entire BT time line. The magic cycle
> is roughly 3200 years so the peak wouldn't have even hit in the BT line.
> That means a lot. You can't rewrite a little of it, you have to do a lot.
>
True in all accounts, but the cycle is repetitive...who knows what's out
there. I think something Paolo was doing was, exactly as he stated, creating
something Epic. BTW, the timelines may or may not be connected, the joke
seems to be lingering out there somewhere...

-K
Message no. 17
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: The Great Lie
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:43:31 -0500
MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> wrote:
>Paolo Marcucci once dared to write,
>>Piloted by semi-supernatural beings arrived from the Outer Sphere,
>>descendants
>>of the Otakus, new Mechs are joining mankind and the Enforcer itself in the
>>battle against the ultimate evil...

> Weak... And where did the magic go? If your time line was correct
>then Magic should be an even stronger and more understood force in the BT
>universe.

ComStar keeps many secrets. You don't think the Word of Blake is just about
communications, do you?

> In short, the two game universes are only joined if you want it and
>you make it so by extensively rewriting the time line to make serious
>adjustments for the Shadowrun universe. And that does not appeal to me at
>all.

Honestly, me either. Bbut I do sort of like the idea of magic in BT.

Wordman

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about The Great Lie, you may also be interested in:

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