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Message no. 1
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 23:11:13 +1000
At 21:55 8/04/99 +1000 Lady Jestyr wrote
>For us here in Aus, release date is June 3rd - only 15 days after US
>release. Saw the preview tonight before The Matrix... on the topic of
>which... ohmigod *drool*

Pretty darned good I must say. It was funny to
see all of the old Sydney landmarks in the film.

In one scene Neo and Trinity are driving along
and discussing fate one of them says
"Who knows where this path will lead" to which
I replied jokingly to my friend "Pitt Street"
(they were driving down a side street near Pitt St"

>It's been a long time since a 'populist' movie provoked that much thought
>in me - last one was 'Contact', actually. Hot damn The Matrix was a good
>movie. Gave me a kick in the teeth about adding spark to Matrix scenes in
>SR, too.
>
>Lady Jestyr

Now isn't Hugo Weaving the darned best Black Ice you'll
ever see. As for the "skillsofts" that was awesome as
too were the "wired reflexes". This film will make runners
want to play deckers alot more now.

Manx
timburke@*******.com.au
#950 of 1000
__________________________________
"Such carping is not commendable"
- William Shakespeare
- Much Ado About Nothing a3.s1.l71
__________________________________
Play SR3 at Maelstrom, 1st-3rd May 1999
http://brisbane.diggycity.com/maelstrom
Message no. 2
From: Ryan W. Bolduan emeottrw@***.umn.edu
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:41:55 -0500 (CDT)
On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Manx wrote:

> Pretty darned good I must say. It was funny to
> see all of the old Sydney landmarks in the film.

Anybody notice how a lot of the "post apocalyptic" movies are located in
Austrailia? Road Warrior series comes directly to mind. Just curious.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Bolduan emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu
http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~emeottrw

A person concerned with such important matters as I, need not, and should
not, attend to spelling.
--Napolean
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 23:51:09 +1000
At 08:41 8/04/99 -0500 Ryan W. Bolduan wrote

>Anybody notice how a lot of the "post apocalyptic" movies are located in
>Austrailia? Road Warrior series comes directly to mind. Just curious.
>
> Ryan Bolduan emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu

Dark City was also filmed here as will be Episode 2 & 3.
All of the above were/are being filmed at the Fox Studios
in Sydney. Apparently the facilites there are pretty good.

The fun part about the whole thing is spotting all
the Australian actors that fill in alot of the supporting
cast. For example the girl with the white rabbit tattoo
is a TV soap opera star here. The kid hacker that designed
the "woman in red" is also on TV here as well.

Dark City was better for Aussie TV star spotting
though as some of our biggest TV stars were
in that, Colin Friels played the suicidal Detective.
Melissa George the sympathetic hooker and
of course Bruce (name excapes me) the tall
dorky guy that was the Gyro-Copter pilot in
Mad Max 2 (or The Road Warrior as it was known
in the USA).

You guys can thank the shitty Australian Dollar
for making The Matrix. It was the fact that the
studio's US dollars went twice as far here that
allowed the Warshowski Bros to even make
the film. It's ironic that one of the biggest things
that I complain about (shitty exchange rate)
actually worked in my favour for once.

Manx
timburke@*******.com.au
#950 of 1000
__________________________________
"Such carping is not commendable"
- William Shakespeare
- Much Ado About Nothing a3.s1.l71
__________________________________
Play SR3 at Maelstrom, 1st-3rd May 1999
http://brisbane.diggycity.com/maelstrom
Message no. 4
From: strago@***.com strago@***.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:00:24 -500
>On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Manx wrote:
>
>> Pretty darned good I must say. It was funny to
>> see all of the old Sydney landmarks in the film.
>
>Anybody notice how a lot of the "post apocalyptic" movies are located in
>Austrailia? Road Warrior series comes directly to mind. Just curious.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Ryan Bolduan emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu
> http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~emeottrw
>
> A person concerned with such important matters as I, need not, and should

> not, attend to spelling.
> --Napolean
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>
>
>
Very interesting. But think about what's happened to Australia in Shadowrun.
The last I knew, it was surrounded by some blue/green/other funky colored gelatinous
fog from which nothing which entered escaped. I think that a small island continent
is the most fun thing to play with when discussing a post-apocalyptic future.
Plus, who'd want to nuke the Aussies?
Message no. 5
From: Adam Getchell acgetchell@*******.edu
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:42:39 -0700
>Pretty darned good I must say. It was funny to
>see all of the old Sydney landmarks in the film.

Interesting movie. Requires significant suspension of disbelief (Humans as
batteries? Blocking out the sky?) but it was entertaining.

The martial arts was poor however, especially the Capoeira moves. Keanu
Reeves was painful to watch. Its a shame that the combination of good
actor, good martial artist is exceedingly rare and not used in movies like
this.

>Now isn't Hugo Weaving the darned best Black Ice you'll
>ever see. As for the "skillsofts" that was awesome as
>too were the "wired reflexes". This film will make runners
>want to play deckers alot more now.

I thought it was more inspiring for street samurai and phsyads, myself. The
solipsism and tautologies scattered throughout the movie were very
entertaining, however.

>Manx

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
Message no. 6
From: Kelson kelson13@***********.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:54:47 -0800
On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:42:39 Adam Getchell wrote:

>Interesting movie. Requires significant suspension of disbelief (Humans as
>batteries? Blocking out the sky?) but it was entertaining.

Well, to me if you can handle jacking your brain into the Matrix, getting cyberware
implanted in your body, fighting paranormal animals, casting spells, astrally projecting,
etc. (i.e. Shadowrun), then you can handle this. ;) The suspension wasn't as bad as some
other sci fi movies I've seen, and it didn't really get to me.

>The martial arts was poor however, especially the Capoeira moves. Keanu
>Reeves was painful to watch. Its a shame that the combination of good
>actor, good martial artist is exceedingly rare and not used in movies like
>this.

Dunno nuthin' 'bout martial arts - so I wasn't disappointed. It was cool to watch, and
that's all that mattered to me.

>I thought it was more inspiring for street samurai and phsyads, myself. The
>solipsism and tautologies scattered throughout the movie were very
>entertaining, however.

I didn't think of it as street sam and physad inspiration because I saw all the
"special" stuff happening within the Matrix itself -- thus, it was a decker
inspiration to me. And a fairly good one, I might add. :)

>--Adam

Justin


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Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:00:34 -0600 (MDT)
Adam Getchell wrote:
/
/ The martial arts was poor however, especially the Capoeira moves. Keanu
/ Reeves was painful to watch. Its a shame that the combination of good
/ actor, good martial artist is exceedingly rare and not used in movies like
/ this.

Well, yes, if you have experience with martial arts it's painful. However,
it's painful to watch just about any martial art movie scene from that
perspective :)

But I don't think that should take away from the martial art scenes.
They were coreographed with the express goal of entertaining the
audience, and IMHO that did that very well.

It's like when I saw Armagedon. I was wincing during the scene when
they were approaching the astroid at high speed, dodging space debris.
In RL space craft move slowly and precisely. I had to make a
perceptual shift to enjoy that scene from the position of a movie goer
and not from the perspective of a space enthusiast. If I had stayed in
space enthusiast mode I would not have been able to enjoy that movie.

Likewise with Matrix. When the martial arts started I slipped into
student mode and immediately started picking out the flaws. I quickly
realized what I was doing and stopped analyzing their moves and just
sat back and enjoyed the show and had a good time.

IMHO the purpose of a movie is to entertain you, not to be realistic or
believable.
Message no. 8
From: Airwasp@***.com Airwasp@***.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:57:04 EDT
In a message dated 4/8/1999 10:44:05 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
acgetchell@*******.edu writes:

> >Pretty darned good I must say. It was funny to
> >see all of the old Sydney landmarks in the film.
>
> Interesting movie. Requires significant suspension of disbelief (Humans as
> batteries? Blocking out the sky?) but it was entertaining.

The idea of using people as batteries is kinda stretching it, but considering
this is a sci-fi film, it might mean that we could develop the technology
sometime in the future. Imagine it, a corporation that offers to be people a
reality in which they can be whatever they choose to be, in return, they
provide their own bodies to supply power to the corporation for whatever
purpose they deem correct.

> The martial arts was poor however, especially the Capoeira moves. Keanu
> Reeves was painful to watch. Its a shame that the combination of good
> actor, good martial artist is exceedingly rare and not used in movies like
> this.

I personally thought Keanu did pretty well, besides, the people doing The
Matrix were also trying to target the Johnny Mnemonic crowd also.

> >Now isn't Hugo Weaving the darned best Black Ice you'll
> >ever see. As for the "skillsofts" that was awesome as
> >too were the "wired reflexes". This film will make runners
> >want to play deckers alot more now.
>
> I thought it was more inspiring for street samurai and phsyads, myself. The
> solipsism and tautologies scattered throughout the movie were very
> entertaining, however.

Hey guys, what those moves were were not wired reflexes, it is more
indicative of the Response Increase that is available for cyberdecks. But it
is still a good description though of what wired reflexes might be like.

As for the skill-downloads they had, wonderful, except for one very small
thing, once the skills were ingrained it seems that the person never had to
worry about forgetting them either.

Do you think that skills could be ingrained into a person using something
along the lines of PCP IC, except that, as a balance, the ingrained skill(s)
would degrade over time, say perhaps a point per week, and the limit of the
number of ingrained skills could be equal to the character's Intelligence +
Willpower? What do you all think?

-Herc
Message no. 9
From: Zachariah Hoffman zhoffman@*.arizona.edu
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 09:08:54 -0700
Did anyone notice the home sweet home sign in the oracles apt? If I saw
it correctly, it had an old programmers reference on it.

10 home
20 sweet
30 home

It's nice to know that a 1000 years from now, programming in Basic is
still appreciated.

--
***************************************************
Zachariah Hoffman zhoffman@*.arizona.edu
Support Systems Analyst www.lrc.arizona.edu/ZachH
UA College of Medicine
Learning Resource Center
***************************************************
Message no. 10
From: Frank Pelletier (Trinity) fpelletier@******.usherb.ca
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:08:31 -0400
Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.edu> once wrote,

(snipped)

Hey, next time you decide to reveal a plot element, try to add some spoiler
space, Adam.

> The martial arts was poor however, especially the Capoeira moves. Keanu
> Reeves was painful to watch. Its a shame that the combination of good
> actor, good martial artist is exceedingly rare and not used in movies like
> this.

What?

I thought the fight scenes were some of the best choreographed moves in a
long while. Now, I think you meant to say that Keanu Reeves's style is
lame. Of course it is, he's an actor. But, damn, those wire moves,
speed-ups, using special effects during combat, that was great. And that's
what makes this movie so entertaining. It might not be the most "technical"
martial arts film out there, but who cares? It's the most fun.

> >Now isn't Hugo Weaving the darned best Black Ice you'll
> >ever see. As for the "skillsofts" that was awesome as
> >too were the "wired reflexes". This film will make runners
> >want to play deckers alot more now.
>
> I thought it was more inspiring for street samurai and phsyads, myself.
The
> solipsism and tautologies scattered throughout the movie were very
> entertaining, however.

The movie did give out a feel for what a samurai would look like fighting a
normal human. Exceedingly fast, strong, tough. Althought, concerning the
"agents", I thought they could've gone for something more outlandish than
the typical Men In Black look. But that's only a minor quip. The whole
movie's getting two tongues up from me :)

Trinity
---------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
fpelletier@******.usherb.ca

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" -M. Gandhi

Trinity or FadingSun on the Undernet and EFNet
Message no. 11
From: Kelson kelson13@***********.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 08:24:20 -0800
On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:08:31 Frank Pelletier (Trinity) wrote:

>I thought the fight scenes were some of the best choreographed moves in a
>long while. Now, I think you meant to say that Keanu Reeves's style is
>lame. Of course it is, he's an actor. But, damn, those wire moves,
>speed-ups, using special effects during combat, that was great. And that's
>what makes this movie so entertaining. It might not be the most "technical"
>martial arts film out there, but who cares? It's the most fun.

That's how I see it too. :) The fight scenes were out of sight. Some of the best I have
ever seen. But I don't pick them apart, so I can enjoy them. (I don't have the knowledge
to pick them apart - sometimes ignorance IS bliss.)

<snip>

Althought, concerning the
>"agents", I thought they could've gone for something more outlandish than
>the typical Men In Black look. But that's only a minor quip. The whole
>movie's getting two tongues up from me :)

Heh. I started to wonder about the Men In Black thing too, but then realized that it was
an excellent representation of the "Ice". They were, after all, agents of the
oppressive force and they had to follow the rules of the Matrix. Taken from that
perspective, it was the perfect representation for them. I also noticed how clearly the
head "Ice" spoke -- he annuncianted his words to a point that was almost
painful. Just another example of how clean cut and representative of the oppressive
faction he was.

>Trinity

Justin


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Message no. 12
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 02:24:35 +1000
>The movie did give out a feel for what a samurai would look like fighting a
>normal human. Exceedingly fast, strong, tough. Althought, concerning the
>"agents", I thought they could've gone for something more outlandish than
>the typical Men In Black look. But that's only a minor quip. The whole
>movie's getting two tongues up from me :)
>
>Trinity
>---------------------------------------------
>Frank Pelletier

Um the "Men in Black" look was meant to add to the
feel that they were a computer program. Like the
generic Universal Matrix Persona Icon in SR.

Manx
timburke@*******.com.au
#950 of 1000
__________________________________
"Such carping is not commendable"
- William Shakespeare
- Much Ado About Nothing a3.s1.l71
__________________________________
Play SR3 at Maelstrom, 1st-3rd May 1999
http://brisbane.diggycity.com/maelstrom
Message no. 13
From: Adam Getchell acgetchell@*******.edu
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:08:33 -0700
>Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.edu> once wrote,
>
>(snipped)
>
>Hey, next time you decide to reveal a plot element, try to add some spoiler
>space, Adam.

Hey, next time you are worried about this, try to read the Subject line.

>I thought the fight scenes were some of the best choreographed moves in a
>long while. Now, I think you meant to say that Keanu Reeves's style is
>lame. Of course it is, he's an actor. But, damn, those wire moves,
>speed-ups, using special effects during combat, that was great. And that's
>what makes this movie so entertaining. It might not be the most "technical"
>martial arts film out there, but who cares? It's the most fun.

Let's presume that you add "in my opinion" to all of this. Fine, great. I'm
not trying to change your opinion.

In my opinion, I've seen much better martial arts done in movies. I've seen
much better martial arts done off the cuff during practice. Lethal Weapon 4
benefited from Jet Li. Just about any movie with Jet Li, with or without
wires, is exceptional. The Quest benefited from one of Mestre Amen's
students. I think a better martial arts choreographer would have helped ...
but that's my opinion.

It personally bothers me to see the flavor of the month martial art,
Capoeira, be so poorly represented when there are such excellent
practicioners out there. I've seen much better stuff done in the roda.
That's just a pet peeve. I get a similiar response when I watch most TKD
matches ... I've seen some of the best, so less than that is disappointing.

You like it ... great.

As far as suspension of disbelief goes, as one could no doubt guess by now,
I tend to like realism. Shadowrun technology I can base and make somewhat
realistic. Magic I can hand-wave away as mystical. Something that tries to
be realistic but is absurd ... well, that causes problems. But I'm sure
I'll enjoy Episode 1: The Phantom Menace just fine.

>The movie did give out a feel for what a samurai would look like fighting a
>normal human. Exceedingly fast, strong, tough. Althought, concerning the

As I said, I think the film gets some style points for street sam and
physads. The Matrix is essentially a hyperreal virtual reality, so all the
"normal" rules are simulated. I just thought that once they figured this
out and could manipulate their icons, they should have been more like
Superman (which is what Keanu Reeves was, in the end).

>Frank Pelletier
--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
Message no. 14
From: Oliver McDonald oliver@*********.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:11:41 -0700 (PDT)
On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:41:55 -0500 (CDT), Ryan W. Bolduan wrote:

>On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Manx wrote:
>
>> Pretty darned good I must say. It was funny to
>> see all of the old Sydney landmarks in the film.
>
>Anybody notice how a lot of the "post apocalyptic" movies are located in
>Austrailia? Road Warrior series comes directly to mind. Just curious.

It is because no one in their right mind would bother Nuking Australia. ;-)


-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://web2.spydernet.com/oliver/
-----------------------------------------------------------
Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.
Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.

"that is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may
die."
-H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu."
Message no. 15
From: Kelson kelson13@***********.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 09:23:06 -0800
On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:08:33 Adam Getchell wrote:

>As far as suspension of disbelief goes, as one could no doubt guess by now,
>I tend to like realism. Shadowrun technology I can base and make somewhat
>realistic. Magic I can hand-wave away as mystical. Something that tries to
>be realistic but is absurd ... well, that causes problems. But I'm sure
>I'll enjoy Episode 1: The Phantom Menace just fine.

I don't even like to write off magic as mystical. I at least like to ensure that it's
consistent in it's own "universe". But I get your point. But no matter what
futuristic concepts are portrayed in any sci fi movie, it's going to be considered
"futuristically plausible" by some and "absurd" by others. You just
can't win. Think about it - when SR first came out, I (and many others) thought "get
real", but then tried it out. After playing and reading up on it for awhile, it
began to become plausible. It's all about how well you can suspend disbelief. Not for
one minute did I let the plausibility (or lack there of) of what the movie presented take
me out of the atmosphere that had been created. It's just no fun when you do that.

Try not to let it get to you. ;)

>As I said, I think the film gets some style points for street sam and
>physads. The Matrix is essentially a hyperreal virtual reality, so all the
>"normal" rules are simulated. I just thought that once they figured this
>out and could manipulate their icons, they should have been more like
>Superman (which is what Keanu Reeves was, in the end).

Well, keep in mind that it was stated that only SOME rules could be bent and only SOME
rules could be broken. This means that the rules aren't entirely at your whim (even if
you're "the one"). Now, "the one" might be able to bend and break
more rules than others. But we were discussing the others who had learned to mess with
the rules of the Matrix.

>--Adam

Justin


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Message no. 16
From: David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:13:46 -0600 (MDT)
Zachariah Hoffman wrote:
/
Spoiler space for The Matrix.
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/ Did anyone notice the home sweet home sign in the oracles apt? If I saw
/ it correctly, it had an old programmers reference on it.
/
/ 10 home
/ 20 sweet
/ 30 home
/
/ It's nice to know that a 1000 years from now, programming in Basic is
/ still appreciated.

Gah! That's what the hell that was. I can't believe I didn't get that!

What's really funny is that the younger programmers won't get it, as
current programming languages don't use line numbers anymore :)

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ
http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/BuildHtmlFAQ.php3?title=ShadowRN&faqlistúqsrn
--
mailto:dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 17
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:45:22 -0500
On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:13:46 -0600 (MDT) David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@******.carl.org> writes:
>Zachariah Hoffman wrote:
>/
>Spoiler space for The Matrix.
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/
>/ Did anyone notice the home sweet home sign in the oracles apt? If I
>saw
>/ it correctly, it had an old programmers reference on it.
>/
>/ 10 home
>/ 20 sweet
>/ 30 home
>/
>/ It's nice to know that a 1000 years from now, programming in Basic is
>/ still appreciated.

>Gah! That's what the hell that was. I can't believe I didn't get
>that!
>
>What's really funny is that the younger programmers won't get it, as
>current programming languages don't use line numbers anymore :)

I consider myself younger (22) and though I probably wouldn't have caught
it (I haven't seen it yet), I did get it after it was pointed out.
Doesn't Fortran use line numbers? (It's been a while since I programmed
in either Fortran or Basic)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
WARNING: Virus found: Win.com
Disinfect? (Y/N)

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 18
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:42:11 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 dghost@****.com wrote:

> I consider myself younger (22) and though I probably wouldn't have caught
> it (I haven't seen it yet), I did get it after it was pointed out.
> Doesn't Fortran use line numbers? (It's been a while since I programmed
> in either Fortran or Basic)

Count yourself lucky. The last time I programmed in Fortran was
yesterday. And I'm only 26...

Marc
Message no. 19
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:29:41 -0500
:As for the skill-downloads they had, wonderful, except for one very small
:thing, once the skills were ingrained it seems that the person never had to
:worry about forgetting them either.

I didn't see any indication that they knew those skills outside the
matrix. The skills may have been subroutines the person acsessed from the
ships link gear, just like the weapons and other equipment they used in the
Matrix.

:Do you think that skills could be ingrained into a person using something
:along the lines of PCP IC, except that, as a balance, the ingrained
skill(s)
:would degrade over time, say perhaps a point per week, and the limit of the
:number of ingrained skills could be equal to the character's Intelligence +
:Willpower? What do you all think?
:
:-Herc


I think that's beyond SOTA for Shadowrun IC, simsense, or skillsofts,
but not out of eventual reach (or current dangerously experimental
implementation). It would probably take a lot longer to "write" to the
wetware, and would likely require some special hardware. Early versions
would probably have many of the drawbacks of BTL, and that may be
insurmountable, since the brain can only process so much information and
handle certain regulated signals. Since SR doesn't have very good
guidelines for BTL effects, those would be at your discretion; I'd make them
pretty harsh, for this kind of thing.

Mongoose
Message no. 20
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 16:43:25 +1000
>>(snipped)
>>
>>Hey, next time you decide to reveal a plot element, try to add some spoiler
>>space, Adam.
>
>Hey, next time you are worried about this, try to read the Subject line.

This has been covered, over and over. Some people's mail programs
automatically open the next message - I know mine does. I usually don't
even see the subject line until later. Spoiler space is polite internet
behaviour; it won't kill you to do it, will it? Please?

Lady Jestyr

The Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster
- Random acts of... good evening, officer. -
Webring at: http://shadowrun.html.com/webring/
jestyr@*********.html.com | http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr
Message no. 21
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 16:45:47 +1000
>>The movie did give out a feel for what a samurai would look like fighting a
>>normal human. Exceedingly fast, strong, tough. Althought, concerning the
>>"agents", I thought they could've gone for something more outlandish
than
>>the typical Men In Black look. But that's only a minor quip. The whole
>>movie's getting two tongues up from me :)
>
>Um the "Men in Black" look was meant to add to the
>feel that they were a computer program. Like the
>generic Universal Matrix Persona Icon in SR.

I also thought the MiB look was good for two reasons:

1. The matrix in the movie had its own internal consistency. The MiBs fit
right into that, whereas a giant maneating slug (or whatever) wouldn't.
2. The MiBs are good for being off-putting - they fit into the "decker"'s
frame of reference, so implacable and alien behaviour from it puts the
decker at an immediate disadvantage
3. From a movie-making PoV, human bad guys work much better. (Just look at
Malebolgia in the Spawn movie. *shudder*)

Lady Jestyr

The Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster
- Random acts of... good evening, officer. -
Webring at: http://shadowrun.html.com/webring/
jestyr@*********.html.com | http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr
Message no. 22
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:14:31 EDT
In a message dated 4/13/99 1:16:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dbuehrer@******.carl.org writes:

> Adam Getchell wrote:
> /
> / The martial arts was poor however, especially the Capoeira moves. Keanu
> / Reeves was painful to watch. Its a shame that the combination of good
> / actor, good martial artist is exceedingly rare and not used in movies
like
> / this.
>
> Well, yes, if you have experience with martial arts it's painful. However,
> it's painful to watch just about any martial art movie scene from that
> perspective :)

Yeah well, someone please point out these errors to me. Private email would
be fine. My memories are still pretty clear with regards to "the Matrix",
and I'm not sure what was truly *wrong*, vs. what was merely Choreography
doing it's part.

> But I don't think that should take away from the martial art scenes.
> They were coreographed with the express goal of entertaining the
> audience, and IMHO that did that very well.

Nod

> It's like when I saw Armagedon. I was wincing during the scene when
> they were approaching the astroid at high speed, dodging space debris.
> In RL space craft move slowly and precisely. I had to make a
> perceptual shift to enjoy that scene from the position of a movie goer
> and not from the perspective of a space enthusiast. If I had stayed in
> space enthusiast mode I would not have been able to enjoy that movie.

Hold on here...traveling space craft *do* move very fast, as do quite a few
pieces of space debris I can think of. IMO, the problem is that we, as
earthers watching NASA stuff, don't ever see a size to location reference
from a "third person" POV. I think the dodging was a tad bit, and that them
getting nailed on the inbound was actually a realistic thing. Them surviving
after getting nailed (the second shuttle) was NOT.

> Likewise with Matrix. When the martial arts started I slipped into
> student mode and immediately started picking out the flaws. I quickly
> realized what I was doing and stopped analyzing their moves and just
> sat back and enjoyed the show and had a good time.

Hmmm...I must be glad I learned to do this automatically...

> IMHO the purpose of a movie is to entertain you, not to be realistic or
> believable.

So very true.

-K
Message no. 23
From: David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:28:23 -0600 (MDT)
Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
/
/ In a message dated 4/13/99 1:16:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
/ dbuehrer@******.carl.org writes:
/
/ > Adam Getchell wrote:
/
Spoiler space for martial arts in the "Matrix"
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/ > /
/ > / The martial arts was poor however, especially the Capoeira moves. Keanu
/ > / Reeves was painful to watch. Its a shame that the combination of good
/ > / actor, good martial artist is exceedingly rare and not used in movies
/ like
/ > / this.
/ >
/ > Well, yes, if you have experience with martial arts it's painful. However,
/ > it's painful to watch just about any martial art movie scene from that
/ > perspective :)
/
/ Yeah well, someone please point out these errors to me. Private email would
/ be fine. My memories are still pretty clear with regards to "the Matrix",
/ and I'm not sure what was truly *wrong*, vs. what was merely Choreography
/ doing it's part.

The most grevious error was that they only moved back and forth most of
the time. A martial artist at that skill level doesn't just restrict
himself to moving backwards and forwards. He moves sideways and
corners in and out on you (as you move forward he moves diagonal into
you ending up off to your weak side and takes out your ribs). In fact,
going sideways or cornering out are prefered.

There were few catches, wrist locks, or throws. Given the level and number
of martial art styles they knew their should have been a *lot* of different
techniques. And the ground is a weapon of choice for martial artists.
There should have been a *lot* of throws. Of course, throws aren't very
showy on the silver screen :)

Posing before you attack is a major no no. If you're going to attack
someone you haul off and nail them with as little warning as possible.
If you pose, at the very least the other guy's fight or flight instinct
kicks in and he gets that adrenaline shot. If he's experienced it
gives him plenty of time to settle into "combat" mode.

The majority of the strikes were body blows with the rest directed at
the head. No eye jabs, no throat strikes, no knee kicks, no round
houses to the ribs, etc. The sternum and face are valid targets, but
they are not targets of choice for a martial artists. For example, my
target of choice is the knee. Or if I can catch a strike you can kiss
your elbow goodbye. The human instinct to protect the head and chest
are just to good (it's hard to hit an untrained fighter in the head or
chest, let alone a martial artist).

/ > But I don't think that should take away from the martial art scenes.
/ > They were coreographed with the express goal of entertaining the
/ > audience, and IMHO that did that very well.
/
/ Nod

Plus, one can easily argue that the fight scene was symbolic of the mental
battle of wills and thus does not have to precisely portray RL martial
arts :)

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ
http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/BuildHtmlFAQ.php3?title=ShadowRN&faqlistúqsrn
--
mailto:dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 24
From: Kevin Langevin kevinl@******.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:23:42 -0400
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Buehrer [mailto:dbuehrer@******.carl.org]
> Subject: Re: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
>
>
> Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
> /
> / In a message dated 4/13/99 1:16:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> / dbuehrer@******.carl.org writes:
> /
> / > Adam Getchell wrote:
> /
> Spoiler space for martial arts in the "Matrix"
> /
> /
> /
> /
> /
> /
> /
> /
> /
> /
> /
> /
> /
> /
> /
> /
> / > /
> / > / The martial arts was poor however, especially the
> Capoeira moves. Keanu
> / > / Reeves was painful to watch. Its a shame that the
> combination of good
> / > / actor, good martial artist is exceedingly rare and not
> used in movies
> / like
> / > / this.
> / >
> / > Well, yes, if you have experience with martial arts it's

[some stuff snipped]

> The majority of the strikes were body blows with the rest directed at
> the head. No eye jabs, no throat strikes, no knee kicks, no round
> houses to the ribs, etc. The sternum and face are valid targets, but
> they are not targets of choice for a martial artists. For example, my
> target of choice is the knee. Or if I can catch a strike you can kiss
> your elbow goodbye. The human instinct to protect the head and chest
> are just to good (it's hard to hit an untrained fighter in the head or
> chest, let alone a martial artist).

Go back and look at the fight scene during the overhead view, and I think
that you'll see Keanu making a number of very fast, successive kicks to the
knees. I remember thinking to myself, "I can't believe that with the names
of the masters from the training tapes that neither of them are kicking to
the knees..." and then the overhead view and what appeared to me to be Keanu
kicking at Lawrence's knee level appeared, and I said to myself,
"Ahhhh...ok...at least they made an appearance in this fight."

-Kev
Message no. 25
From: David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:41:22 -0600 (MDT)
Kevin Langevin wrote:
/
/ > -----Original Message-----
/ > From: David Buehrer [mailto:dbuehrer@******.carl.org]
/ > Subject: Re: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
/ >
/ >
/ > Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
/ > /
/ > / In a message dated 4/13/99 1:16:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
/ > / dbuehrer@******.carl.org writes:
/ > /
/ > / > Adam Getchell wrote:
/ > /
/ > Spoiler space for martial arts in the "Matrix"
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > /
/ > / > /
/ > / > / The martial arts was poor however, especially the
/ > Capoeira moves. Keanu
/ > / > / Reeves was painful to watch. Its a shame that the
/ > combination of good
/ > / > / actor, good martial artist is exceedingly rare and not
/ > used in movies
/ > / like
/ > / > / this.
/ > / >
/ > / > Well, yes, if you have experience with martial arts it's
/
/ [some stuff snipped]
/
/ > The majority of the strikes were body blows with the rest directed at
/ > the head. No eye jabs, no throat strikes, no knee kicks, no round
/ > houses to the ribs, etc. The sternum and face are valid targets, but
/ > they are not targets of choice for a martial artists. For example, my
/ > target of choice is the knee. Or if I can catch a strike you can kiss
/ > your elbow goodbye. The human instinct to protect the head and chest
/ > are just to good (it's hard to hit an untrained fighter in the head or
/ > chest, let alone a martial artist).
/
/ Go back and look at the fight scene during the overhead view, and I think
/ that you'll see Keanu making a number of very fast, successive kicks to the
/ knees. I remember thinking to myself, "I can't believe that with the names
/ of the masters from the training tapes that neither of them are kicking to
/ the knees..." and then the overhead view and what appeared to me to be Keanu
/ kicking at Lawrence's knee level appeared, and I said to myself,
/ "Ahhhh...ok...at least they made an appearance in this fight."

That must've happened after I stopped analyzing the movie and started
enjoying it :)

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ
http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/BuildHtmlFAQ.php3?title=ShadowRN&faqlistúqsrn
--
mailto:dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 26
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:08:54 EDT
In a message dated 4/14/99 2:27:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dbuehrer@******.carl.org writes:

>
> Plus, one can easily argue that the fight scene was symbolic of the mental
> battle of wills and thus does not have to precisely portray RL martial
> arts :)

Thank You...I am glad you at least put this last part in.

-K
Message no. 27
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: The matrix (movie) [possible spoilers]
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:12:16 -0500
>> Plus, one can easily argue that the fight scene was symbolic of the
>> mental battle of wills and thus does not have to precisely portray
>> RL martial arts :)
>
>Thank You...I am glad you at least put this last part in.

It makes the movie a lot more fun from that perspective, too.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

Further Reading

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