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Message no. 1
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: the MBT "Stonewall" Question/Statement (was a question here too)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:58:16 EST
In a message dated 11/17/1999 8:46:54 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
abortion_engine@*******.com writes:

> Huh? Where's *that* printed? Is it? Then what is the Stonewall? What's
> really happening? Whose idea was this? Come on, K and Jon, details, man!
> [Within NDA bounds, of course. :) ]

Okay, what was said has been done as pure conjecture and/or opinion on all
parties involved that I stated, so I want to clear this little detail up
RIGHT NOW! However, after letting my own personal bias's simmer down after I
heard the conversations/remarks from Jon S./Mike M., I do have to admiit, it
is kind of odd to do this kind of "supertank" mentality on such a potentially
massive scale.

However, I don't think that mentality is going to be the limiting factor here
in the very near future (SHIP THOSE BOOKS DAMN IT!!!!).

I also know that after Mike B. and I looked the situation over more
thoroughly, after letting everything said to us sink in, there was one very
principle consideration we kept coming back to. Where did all the money go?
This project would have had to have had at least some kind of financial
tracking going on in order to pull of a "ruse" of this nature. Where did the
money go then? I'm fairly certain Aztlan/Aztechnology has the resources to
perform governmental database raids if they so choose to do so (please note,
the Corporate Courts still have little to care about with regards to Nation
vs. Megacorp, even by the Corporate Download materials' standards).

More than one joke has been made since that the money, which would have had
to have been enormous, probably did go into a couple of modified LAV-TBirds
that were then carted around everywhere so as to get the attention/focus of
people, keep it, and then go on from there.

The money *could* have really gone into something else entirely that may
still be "secretive". We'd even considered naval increases of strange
calibers, such as new submarines that could perform "aircraft" capabilities
using VTOL-capable aircraft...LIKE LAVs!!

But, again, in the end, its' all within the realm of conjecture I guess.
NOTHING has been written in stone yet (that *I* am aware of anyway).

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 2
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: the MBT "Stonewall" Question/Statement (was a question here too)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:36:35 +0100
According to Ereskanti@***.com, at 13:58 on 17 Nov 99, the word on
the street was...

> I also know that after Mike B. and I looked the situation over more
> thoroughly, after letting everything said to us sink in, there was one very
> principle consideration we kept coming back to. Where did all the money go?
> This project would have had to have had at least some kind of financial
> tracking going on in order to pull of a "ruse" of this nature. Where did
the
> money go then?

Keith, have you ever heard of the M247 "Sgt. York" Divisional Air Defense
System (DIVADS)? It was a US Army project in the 1970/80s to develop what
was supposed to be the world's best anti-aircraft gun system. What they
basically did was take an old M48A5 MBT hull, and stick onto it a new
turret with two 40 mm automatic cannons and some aircraft radar systems. I
think a couple hundred were built, and then it was discovered that the
thing was probably the worst POS AA system ever built. AFAIK all examples
were scrapped and destroyed within a few years of coming into service,
leaving the US Army without an effective and modern(ish) AA gun system
until even today. LOTS of money was put into DIVADS without any real
payback.

Another good example is the M60A2 "Starship" MBT (an M60A1 with a new
turret equipped with a combination 152 mm gun/missile launcher) that cost
hundreds of millions of dollars to develop in the 1970s. It entered
service around 1975, and was withdrawn completely in the early 1980s
because it just didn't live up to expectations.

Those are just two RL examples, but what I'm trying to say here :) is that
the Stonewall could have been like them: the CAS sinks a large part of its
defense budget into it because they really think it's going to be
something good (or because they've announced the thing to the world before
it was ready, and don't want to lose face) but when it actually enters
service it turns out to be a piece of crap that no soldier likes and that
doesn't live up to expectations at all. So what do they do? Try a few
modifications, which don't really solve the problem, and then decide that
to keep tinkering with it will cost more money than scrapping it will. At
that point they simply remove it from the army's strength without giving
much rumor to the fact (though you'd probably read it in a magazine like
Jane's Defense Weekly, which still means the general public won't be aware
of it) and that's that.

> More than one joke has been made since that the money, which would have had
> to have been enormous, probably did go into a couple of modified LAV-TBirds
> that were then carted around everywhere so as to get the attention/focus of
> people, keep it, and then go on from there.

That's something I've thought of, too. That actually happened IRL, BTW: in
1940 the Germans invaded Norway and took with them two types of new tank.
They photographed them all over Oslo (I think) giving the impression they
had plenty of them. In fact only five were built of one type and two of
the other, and they photographed those in lots of different places to make
it appear as if they had many more. (These tanks never got into
production, BTW -- those seven were all that were ever made.)


--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Destiny is a state of mind
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: Bira ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br
Subject: the MBT "Stonewall" Question/Statement (was a question here too)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:03:22 -0200
On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:58:16 EST
Ereskanti@***.com wrote:

> I also know that after Mike B. and I looked the situation over more
> thoroughly, after letting everything said to us sink in, there was one very
> principle consideration we kept coming back to. Where did all the money go?

Corruption scams, for sure. Corps aren't the only ones to do
this kind of thing (in fact, they learned from Joe Politico :) ).

Bira - SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://members.xoom.com/slbr
http://www.terravista.pt/Nazare/2729
ICQ# 4055455

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