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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott Hiller)
Subject: The Racism Factor
Date: Sat Feb 9 01:15:01 2002
Althroughout the different Shadowrun® products down
through the years, the producers of the game have
incorporated a very interesting Racism Rule to see
whether or not Characters and NPCs have a racial bias
against a ceretain metatype. In the 2nd Edition, this
was also expressed in the Racism Table.

Now, I have several questions:
1) What are some good examples of "Racial Bias Against
[Metatype] +[1,2,3,4,5,6]?
2) I can see why characters would be racist against
Humans (the dominant race on Earth), Elves (their
hidden power and long lives – plus they are perceived
as snooty), Orks & Trolls (big, ugly, disgusting, and
brutal). But why would anyone be racist against a
DWARF? I don't get it.
3) How could the same racism table be applied to
different cultures? For example: In the Mideast, there
would still be a lot of hatred between Palestinians
and the Jews, and Shi'ites would still hate Sunnis. In
America, there may still be people who are racist
towards blacks, Native Americans, Immigrants and
mixed-race people. In Azania, there could be hatred
towards blacks and mixed-race people. All over the
world, there could still be hatred against rich people
and poor people. Blacks would still hate whites.
Puerto Ricans would still hate Aztlaners (Mexicans).
Also, the Catholics would still be at odds with other
Christian denominations. Plus, there would still be a
dozen divisions still being made along cultural and
religious lines around the world still despite the
appearance of Metahumans, SURGE, etc. Maybe those
events would ENHANCE the already-strained relations
rather than rendering them moot. . . But, of course
there are always exceptions.

Just some thoughts.

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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: The Racism Factor
Date: Sat Feb 9 01:45:01 2002
>[Snip-it]

>Now, I have several questions:
>1) What are some good examples of "Racial Bias Against
>[Metatype] +[1,2,3,4,5,6]?

I can give you none.

>2) I can see why characters would be racist against
>Humans (the dominant race on Earth), Elves (their
>hidden power and long lives - plus they are perceived
>as snooty), Orks & Trolls (big, ugly, disgusting, and
>brutal). But why would anyone be racist against a
>DWARF? I don't get it.

Maybe it's not hatred, but more like they make fun of the dwarfs because of
their height.
Or it might be becuase of their technical knowledge.

>3) How could the same racism table be applied to
>different cultures? For example: In the Mideast, there
>would still be a lot of hatred between Palestinians
>and the Jews, and Shi'ites would still hate Sunnis. In
>America, there may still be people who are racist
>towards blacks, Native Americans, Immigrants and
>mixed-race people. In Azania, there could be hatred
>towards blacks and mixed-race people. All over the
>world, there could still be hatred against rich people
>and poor people. Blacks would still hate whites.
>Puerto Ricans would still hate Aztlaners (Mexicans).
>Also, the Catholics would still be at odds with other
>Christian denominations. Plus, there would still be a
>dozen divisions still being made along cultural and
>religious lines around the world still despite the
>appearance of Metahumans, SURGE, etc. Maybe those
>events would ENHANCE the already-strained relations
>rather than rendering them moot. . . But, of course
>there are always exceptions.

I think Smugglers HAven and Cyberpirates had some views on this about race
being more then just skin deep. But I could be wrong. I do know that a
couple of books mentioned that way in the deep CAS some humanis is still
KKK.

EMFA John Valeu
-AKA- TimeKeeper
"Don't put off tomorrow what you can do today, because it's just a
matter of time."


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Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: The Racism Factor
Date: Sat Feb 9 07:11:25 2002
According to Scott Hiller, on Sat, 09 Feb 2002 the word on the street was...

> Now, I have several questions:
> 1) What are some good examples of "Racial Bias Against
> [Metatype] +[1,2,3,4,5,6]?

What do you mean? Examples of the way in which people might treat someone
against whose race they're biased? A few I can think of are treating them
like inferiors, not talking to them if possible, beating them up, giving
others who aren't of that race preferential treatment, refusing to serve
them, and so on. It depends a lot on the person and the situation -- I
doubt you could put a "Humans only" sign in a shop window and get away with
it, but a group could easily beat up someone in a back alley and never be
caught.

> 2) I can see why characters would be racist against
> Humans (the dominant race on Earth), Elves (their
> hidden power and long lives –
^
Small request: could you try to not use non-ASCII characters in your
messages? I suppose this was an em dash, but it appears as a question mark
in my mailer (as it does in many other posts of yours).

> plus they are perceived
> as snooty), Orks & Trolls (big, ugly, disgusting, and
> brutal). But why would anyone be racist against a
> DWARF? I don't get it.

Answer this one: Why would anyone be biased against black people? It should
tell you exactly why people are racist against dwarfs.

> 3) How could the same racism table be applied to
> different cultures?

I don't think it would; in fact, I also think it doesn't really work for
North America, either, because it's too simplistic. But if you're using
simplified tables for this kind of thing anyway, you might as well apply
them to every culture IMHO...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
That's the way that I can't win.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Shaffer)
Subject: The Racism Factor
Date: Sat Feb 9 12:05:08 2002
>1) What are some good examples of "Racial Bias Against
>[Metatype] +[1,2,3,4,5,6]?

+1 Laughs when someone makes fun of Orks, but only if there aren't any Orks
present. Uncomfortable spending lots of time with Orks. Doesn't have any
Ork friends.

+2 Willing to work with Orks, but isn't thrilled about it. Sometimes tells
jokes about Orks.

+3 Tells jokes about Orks. Avoids working with Orks. Takes advantage of
Orks whenever possible. Supports laws restricting Ork
rights. Participates in anti-Ork riots.

+4 Hates Orks. Convinced that Orks are the reason the world is such a
filthy place. Wouldn't be caught dead spending time with an Ork. Belongs
to anti-Ork group. Beats up Orks, or looks the other way when Orks are
beaten up.

+5 Everyone knows s/he hates Orks. Anti-Ork activist. The only good Ork
is a dead Ork. Writes laws restricting the rights of Orks. Kills Orks, or
looks the other way when Orks are killed.

+6 Genocidal.

-----
SEX DIFFERENCES ARE HERE TO STAY
--Jenny Holzer _Truisms_
Chris Shaffer chris@*****.net
http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Shaffer)
Subject: The Racism Factor
Date: Sat Feb 9 12:05:15 2002
>1) What are some good examples of "Racial Bias Against
>[Metatype] +[1,2,3,4,5,6]?

+1 Laughs when someone makes fun of Orks, but only if there aren't any Orks
present. Uncomfortable spending lots of time with Orks. Doesn't have any
Ork friends.

+2 Willing to work with Orks, but isn't thrilled about it. Sometimes tells
jokes about Orks.

+3 Tells jokes about Orks. Avoids working with Orks. Takes advantage of
Orks whenever possible. Supports laws restricting Ork
rights. Participates in anti-Ork riots.

+4 Hates Orks. Convinced that Orks are the reason the world is such a
filthy place. Wouldn't be caught dead spending time with an Ork. Belongs
to anti-Ork group. Beats up Orks, or looks the other way when Orks are
beaten up.

+5 Everyone knows s/he hates Orks. Anti-Ork activist. The only good Ork
is a dead Ork. Writes laws restricting the rights of Orks. Kills Orks, or
looks the other way when Orks are killed.

+6 Genocidal.

-----
SEX DIFFERENCES ARE HERE TO STAY
--Jenny Holzer _Truisms_
Chris Shaffer chris@*****.net
http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Joshua Mun)
Subject: The Racism Factor
Date: Sat Feb 9 19:40:02 2002
> > 2) I can see why characters would be racist against
> > Humans (the dominant race on Earth), Elves (their
> > hidden power and long lives –
> > plus they are perceived
> > as snooty), Orks & Trolls (big, ugly, disgusting, and
> > brutal). But why would anyone be racist against a
> > DWARF? I don't get it.
>
> Answer this one: Why would anyone be biased against black people? It should
> tell you exactly why people are racist against dwarfs.
>
I agree with Gurth in that people would be bias against other people who
are different from them for the simple fact that they are different.
People give different excuses for their bias but these are just that
excuses. If you are looking for the excuses that people might be bias
against dwarves you will find things like they are taking jobs away from
human mechanics, or they are too stubborn and close minded, or they are
jerks, or they are too sensitive about their lack of size, any thing
that would in their minds justify their bias. You will find this true
of any biased person.


--
--------------------
"...Capitalist success [in the new information economy] is possible only
as long as most of the researchers remain 'communists'."
- Dr. Pekka Himanen (The Hacker Ethic)

"Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life."
- Bertolt Brecht
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Anders)
Subject: The Racism Factor
Date: Sun Feb 10 01:55:22 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Mun" <grenaldi@*********.net>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: The Racism Factor


: {1-6 SNIPPED 'cause we've all read them half a dozen times}
I used to think it was cute that games like SR satirized contemporary social
problems and lampooned the traditional tribal/ establishment calues, but
after XX years it gets old. Let's just have fun. Even in acknowledged bad
taste... (8>
--Anders
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Burns Tony A1C 609 CPS/DOXEB)
Subject: The Racism Factor
Date: Mon Feb 11 08:25:02 2002
Dwarves? Because they are short, pudgy, crabby, filthy, annoying little
bastards that's why.

Ahem... not that I personally hold that view, just illustrating the
mentality. Racism doesn't have to make sense... it is by definition
something counter to logic. Irrational support of the idea for roleplaying
is perfectly ok.

Hermeticas

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Hiller [mailto:scotthiller2002@*****.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 1:19 AM
To: shadowrn@*********.com
Subject: The Racism Factor

Althroughout the different Shadowrun(r) products down
through the years, the producers of the game have
incorporated a very interesting Racism Rule to see
whether or not Characters and NPCs have a racial bias
against a ceretain metatype. In the 2nd Edition, this
was also expressed in the Racism Table.

Now, I have several questions:
1) What are some good examples of "Racial Bias Against
[Metatype] +[1,2,3,4,5,6]?
2) I can see why characters would be racist against
Humans (the dominant race on Earth), Elves (their
hidden power and long lives - plus they are perceived
as snooty), Orks & Trolls (big, ugly, disgusting, and
brutal). But why would anyone be racist against a
DWARF? I don't get it.
3) How could the same racism table be applied to
different cultures? For example: In the Mideast, there
would still be a lot of hatred between Palestinians
and the Jews, and Shi'ites would still hate Sunnis. In
America, there may still be people who are racist
towards blacks, Native Americans, Immigrants and
mixed-race people. In Azania, there could be hatred
towards blacks and mixed-race people. All over the
world, there could still be hatred against rich people
and poor people. Blacks would still hate whites.
Puerto Ricans would still hate Aztlaners (Mexicans).
Also, the Catholics would still be at odds with other
Christian denominations. Plus, there would still be a
dozen divisions still being made along cultural and
religious lines around the world still despite the
appearance of Metahumans, SURGE, etc. Maybe those
events would ENHANCE the already-strained relations
rather than rendering them moot. . . But, of course
there are always exceptions.

Just some thoughts.

__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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