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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Thermal Dampening & Ruthenium Polymers
Date: Thu Nov 22 05:15:01 2001
I think that if you allow fully transparent armour, then fully transparent
thermal dampening isn't going to be much more unlikely...

In other words, while I think that fully transparent armour is a little bit
preposterous (this isn't Star Trek's transparent aluminium ;-)), it's only a
little less silly than fully transparent thermal dampening. OTOH, it would
be conceivable to incorporate hard polymeric or glass composite laminates
into the armour, which are more or less transparent (like car windscreens).
They might not provide as effective armour as metallic plates and kevlar
lining, but they'd be better than nothing at all.

The problem that I could see with thermal dampening is that it needs to be
made from a substance that adsorbs (ie blocks and contains) infra-red
radiation. Apparently, optically transparent materials transmit near-IR
about as well as they do visible light, so there would be a problem here.
Some sort of clear water based or similar gel-like substance would possibly
be useful for a clear thermal dampening material - it'd have a high heat
capacity, which I would imagine would be useful for adsorbing more heat
before it became hot enough to show up on sensors, and if it was some sort
of polymer gel it could probably be clear too. Near-IR would still escape,
which means your thermal dampening would be less effective than, say, black
material (you know how black clothing heats up much worse in summer than
white clothing?).

Incorporating these sorts of mods into a clear bodysuit would be a little
expensive, and would, to some degree, throw off the ability of the ruthenium
polymers to produce a clean image. Light coming through the "clear" suit
would be somewhat disorted by curvature of the clear lining (lenses such as
in glasses are merely curved glass), and so partially magnified, elongated,
or otherwise distorted images would be received by the sensors. Placing the
sensors outside the suit might help alleviate some of this, but then the
image that they are receiving is not in the same position as what the
ruthenium polymers are, and so the polymers on the other side will display a
slightly wrong image, which would be just as bad.

The more additional layers of material you add on, the worse these kinds of
effects would become. In addition to interface effects such as reflection of
light at particular angles (you know how light glints off a polished car?)
and obscuration of light due to adsorption (even high quality flat glass
adsorbs some light, and you're certainly not using that sort of material as
armour or thermal dampening, so it'll probably adsorb much more light),
you're going to increase the thickness of the suit. This will lead to
greater problems with image clarity, as I described above, as the refracting
material (ie the suit) is thicker, and because there is more material,
variations in thickness will be more likely to occur.

I'd probably apply a flat -1 modifier for wearing even an appropriately
tailored clear unarmoured, un-thermal dampened suit at all. Then a -1
modifier for each point of armour (either ballistic OR impact) added, and a
-2 for each point of thermal dampening added. The thermal dampening would
not function as well as normal thermal dampening (say half modifier?). The
cost of the armour would be significantly more than normal (like 10 times
more than equivalent normal armour), as you'd need to get some sort of
unusual materials to make it from, and probably custom tailor it to the
person during production. As for the thermal dampening, it'd cost a
veritable fortune (like 100 times as much), and probably be very prone to
damage, rupture, or other detrimental effects, especially if shot or
otherwise damaged.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Thermal Dampening & Ruthenium Polymers
Date: Thu Nov 22 11:25:02 2001
In a message dated 11/22/01 5:18:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dam01@***.edu.au writes:

> I think that if you allow fully transparent armour, then fully transparent
> thermal dampening isn't going to be much more unlikely...

Well, first, the armor isn't transparent, otherwise you'd just see a naked
guy standing there... :-)
Ruthenium adds 4 to the T# to detect, assumedly you're applying it over
armor. You can get thermal dampening for that armor to also mask the subject.
Neither is infallible, but both are already in the game, so why add more
mechanics?
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Thermal Dampening & Ruthenium Polymers
Date: Thu Nov 22 20:35:01 2001
> > I think that if you allow fully transparent
armour, then fully transparent thermal dampening isn't
going to be much more unlikely...
>
> Well, first, the armor isn't transparent, otherwise
you'd just see a naked guy standing there... :-)
Ruthenium adds 4 to the T# to detect, assumedly you're
applying it over armor. You can get thermal dampening
for that armor to also mask the subject. Neither is
infallible, but both are already in the game, so why
add more mechanics?

Dude, dude, dude, as I said to Derek, pay attention.
;)

The situation is, we've got a character who has dermal
sheathing impregnated with ruthenium polymers - so, in
effect he DOES have to be naked for the polymers to
have any effect. He's already got transparent armour
and he's wondering how adding thermal dampening to the
armour would effect the polymers. We're not talking
about a ruthenium suit here. :)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Thermal Dampening & Ruthenium Polymers
Date: Thu Nov 22 23:15:02 2001
In a message dated 11/22/01 8:38:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
docwagon101@*****.com writes:

> Dude, dude, dude, as I said to Derek, pay attention.
> ;)

Bah, different subject line probably :-p

Just tell your character to dip his naked body into cold water before going
on the run!
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Robert Manning)
Subject: Thermal Dampening & Ruthenium Polymers
Date: Fri Nov 23 00:55:01 2001
At 08:36 PM 11/22/01, you wrote:
>The situation is, we've got a character who has dermal
>sheathing impregnated with ruthenium polymers - so, in
>effect he DOES have to be naked for the polymers to
>have any effect. He's already got transparent armour
>and he's wondering how adding thermal dampening to the
>armour would effect the polymers. We're not talking
>about a ruthenium suit here. :)
>
>====>Doc'
>(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka
>Doc' Vader)


Thanks, I feel better knowing that at least one person knows what
I'm talking about. ;}

archangel@*********.com

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--
SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h b++(1/2) B UB !IE RN- LST !W dk+ sa+++ ma++
sh+ ad++ ri++ mc+++ rk-- m+ gm+ M- P
--
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Thermal Dampening & Ruthenium Polymers
Date: Fri Nov 23 01:25:01 2001
> Thanks, I feel better knowing that at least one person knows
what
> I'm talking about. ;}

yup....I know what you're talking about...my wife put it best
though....frag all that sheath drek, just use the dermal sheath as camo
for the parts that aren't covered by the clothes which you have lined
with the thermal damper and then have the ruthenium rig in the clothing
as well so that the clothing and the body itself both do the "you can't
see me" thing, most easily done with Form Fitted Armor (Full Body Suit)
which gives you a minimal amount of armor however covers 90% of your
body so the only problem you've got is hiding the thermal signature for
that remaining 10% of your body.

Derek
(with words of wisdom from the wife, scary thought since she's only been
playing SR for about oh 3 months..LOL)
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lange LeBlanc)
Subject: Thermal Dampening & Ruthenium Polymers
Date: Fri Nov 23 07:55:01 2001
Okay. Be nice to the new guy please ;-) I've got all the 3rd Ed sourcebooks,
and have been a player in the SR1 and SR2 systems since the game came out.
I'll admit I've been outta the loop for about 2 years before choosing to run
the game myself. Point i'm trying to make is ... I remember seeing ONE
reference to Ruthenium one of the SR3 books (can't for the life of me
remember where) but nothing telling me exactly what it is. I'm getting an
idea reading this thread, but can someone give me the low and dirty on the
stuff? and what sourcebooks should I have for game stats? (I'm slowly
accumulating previous edition sourcebooks now)

Thanks all ;-)

_________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Thermal Dampening & Ruthenium Polymers
Date: Fri Nov 23 08:50:00 2001
> Okay. Be nice to the new guy please ;-) I've got all the 3rd Ed
> sourcebooks,
> and have been a player in the SR1 and SR2 systems since the game came
out.
> I'll admit I've been outta the loop for about 2 years before choosing
to
> run
> the game myself. Point i'm trying to make is ... I remember seeing ONE
> reference to Ruthenium one of the SR3 books (can't for the life of me
> remember where) but nothing telling me exactly what it is. I'm getting
an
> idea reading this thread, but can someone give me the low and dirty on
the
> stuff? and what sourcebooks should I have for game stats? (I'm slowly
> accumulating previous edition sourcebooks now)
>
> Thanks all ;-)

The rig in discussion is in the man & machine cyberware book under the
dermal sheath area, as far as other references on it I've got no clue
because I don't have anything other than the 3rd books and a couple 2nds
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: Thermal Dampening & Ruthenium Polymers
Date: Fri Nov 23 10:00:01 2001
Lange LeBlanc wrote:
>
> Okay. Be nice to the new guy please ;-) I've got all the 3rd Ed sourcebooks,
> and have been a player in the SR1 and SR2 systems since the game came out.
> I'll admit I've been outta the loop for about 2 years before choosing to run
> the game myself. Point i'm trying to make is ... I remember seeing ONE
> reference to Ruthenium one of the SR3 books (can't for the life of me
> remember where) but nothing telling me exactly what it is. I'm getting an
> idea reading this thread, but can someone give me the low and dirty on the
> stuff?

I don't have my books available ATM, so I can't give stats. But I can
give a quick description. Ruthenium Polymers (RP) have an advanced
chameleon like ability in that given an image signal through an image
processor they can display an image. Given enough processors, one could
(theoretically) make a suit that will project the scene from behind to
the front, giving the effect of near invisibilty. You need at least 6
processors IIRC, and more are more effective.

The player in question has dermal sheathing cybernetic armor with an RP
option thus he hopes he can appear to disappear.

--
Iridios
--
From:The Top 100 Things I'd Do
If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord
(http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html)

If a group of henchmen fail miserably at a task, I will not
berate them for incompetence then send the same group out to try
the task again.

Used Without Permission
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Thermal Dampening & Ruthenium Polymers
Date: Fri Nov 23 10:30:01 2001
<snipt!(TM)>
> I don't have my books available ATM, so I can't give
stats. But I can give a quick description. Ruthenium
Polymers (RP) have an advanced chameleon like ability
in that given an image signal through an image
processor they can display an image. Given enough
processors, one could (theoretically) make a suit that
will project the scene from behind to the front,
giving the effect of near invisibilty. You need at
least 6 processors IIRC, and more are more effective.
>
> The player in question has dermal sheathing
cybernetic armor with an RP option thus he hopes he
can appear to disappear.
> Iridios

Minimum of 4 scanners, and the stats can be found in
the Chemistry section of Man & Machine, if my memory
serves me.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Thermal Dampening & Ruthenium Polymers
Date: Sat Nov 24 08:10:01 2001
On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:57:22 -0400
"Lange LeBlanc" <lange72@*******.com> wrote:

> Okay. Be nice to the new guy please ;-) I've got all the 3rd Ed sourcebooks,
> and have been a player in the SR1 and SR2 systems since the game came out.
> I'll admit I've been outta the loop for about 2 years before choosing to run
> the game myself. Point i'm trying to make is ... I remember seeing ONE
> reference to Ruthenium one of the SR3 books (can't for the life of me
> remember where) but nothing telling me exactly what it is. I'm getting an
> idea reading this thread, but can someone give me the low and dirty on the
> stuff? and what sourcebooks should I have for game stats? (I'm slowly
> accumulating previous edition sourcebooks now)
>
> Thanks all ;-)

Ruthenium polymers look like synthetic cloth (e.g. nylon and
others), but they can change color when a small voltage is applied to
them. They can take on 16 million diferent colors, and can change very
fast. Ruthenium polymers are used (in SR) to make inexpensive and
economic computer monitors, and more "standard" clothing that changes
color on demand.


The "cloaking suit" uses a bunch of imaging scanners (smart
cameras) to look at your surroundings and change the colors of the
ruthenium suit to match them, giving you "perfect" camouflage like the
alien from the movie "Predator". The more scanners you have, the more
effective the suit is. They appeared originally on Shadowtech (a SR1 sourcebook),
and have been reprinted in Man & Machine: Cyberware, a SR3 sourcebook


--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowland.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com

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