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Message no. 1
From: Quindrael d.n.m.vannederveen@****.warande.ruu.nl
Subject: Thermographic Vision (also some Lowlight remarks)
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:05:56 +0200
>But note, nonthermal data IS still in your "field of view" ... again, a
>transparent overlay of the thermograph color bands.

The way I understand it, is that cybernetic thermographic vision has to be
switched "on" and in that case you switch natural vision "off". On the
other hand, why wouldn't they also make a "both" mode? This can have its
advantages, you would have the same view as someone with natural vision.
Because _natural_ thermographic is always on (seems logical), together with
normal vision. Humans just cannot have an idea how this is, but it exists
with some animals (I once read about some butterflies, but I guess many
more - just like animals that see into the UV spectrum). You just have a
larger spectrum of colors which are detected by the eye at all moments you
are using it.
I think Cybertechnology explains that you see normal colors, but "hot"
sources are brighter than "cold". I think that it even would be better to
say that you probably see completely different colors! Remember, even if
you see something that is green, it might just be because your eye is
receiving blue and yellow light but combining it to green (a cousin of mine
misses one of the three kinds of color-receptors and therefore sometimes
sees different colors than other people).
However, there's a difference between most IR and other light: except for
very hot sources like the sun or lightbulbs (which are created for this
specific purpose :-), all the light you see is _reflected_ light. However,
the IR spectrum is mostly _radiated_ light by the source you are looking at
(although it also can reflect IR light, most surfaces absorb IR light).
Another note: I think I recall that a large part of the IR spectrum is
absorbed by glass. That means that you won't be able to see through glass
with thermographic vision only!!!

With lowlight vision, it is really different. Even the natural variant is
another "mode" than "daytime" vision. Don't remember the names, but
you
have two diferent light-detection cells in your eye (I think they are
called cones and staves/staffs - at least that's the translation from what
they're called in Dutch). One kind is used by day, one by night (this one
also cannot discern colors!). Someone with nightvision just has many many
more of the night-version than someone without.
This gives me a cool idea: you can give someone nightvision through
bioware! Just manipulate the eye so it gets more cones/staves (whichever
one is needed).

VrGr David

This is not a signature, every mail I type it again.
Message no. 2
From: Slipspeed atreloar@*********.com
Subject: Thermographic Vision (also some Lowlight remarks)
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 21:46:34 +1000
> Because _natural_ thermographic is always on (seems logical), together
with
> normal vision. Humans just cannot have an idea how this is, but it exists
> with some animals (I once read about some butterflies, but I guess many
> more - just like animals that see into the UV spectrum). You just have a
> larger spectrum of colors which are detected by the eye at all moments you
> are using it.

Actually, some animals have heat sensitive eyes, which I guess is close
enough to IR sight. What you're thinking of is bees. They have UV sight as
well as natural. There could quite possibly be others, though.

Slipspeed

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scattered showers my ass... - Noah
Adam Treloar aka Guardian, Slipspeed
atreloar@*********.com
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Mark Fender markf@******.com
Subject: Thermographic Vision (also some Lowlight remarks)
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:17:40 -0500
> >But note, nonthermal data IS still in your "field of view" ... again, a

> >transparent overlay of the thermograph color bands.
>
> The way I understand it, is that cybernetic thermographic vision has to be
> switched "on" and in that case you switch natural vision "off".
On the
> other hand, why wouldn't they also make a "both" mode? This can have its
> advantages, you would have the same view as someone with natural vision.
> Because _natural_ thermographic is always on (seems logical), together
> with
> normal vision. Humans just cannot have an idea how this is, but it exists
> with some animals (I once read about some butterflies, but I guess many
> more - just like animals that see into the UV spectrum). You just have a
> larger spectrum of colors which are detected by the eye at all moments you
> are using it.
>
I agree with this. That's why the modifiers for natural and artificial are
different on the Vision Table. The people with the natural are still using
regular vision as well, which is why their modifiers are lower. The
artificial ones are using thermographic ONLY and can't take advantage of
also being able to distinguish between targets and hot things.

STAR WARS STAR WARS STAR WARS STAR WARS (no, you may not have my tickets -
but thanks for asking)
Message no. 4
From: Sean McGrath nafien@*******.com
Subject: Thermographic Vision (also some Lowlight remarks)
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 20:12:42 +1000
----------
> From: Quindrael <d.n.m.vannederveen@****.warande.ruu.nl>
> To: shadowrn@*********.org
> Subject: Re: Thermographic Vision (also some Lowlight remarks)
> Date: Tuesday, 18 May 1999 21:05

> The way I understand it, is that cybernetic thermographic vision has to
be
> switched "on" and in that case you switch natural vision "off".
On the
> other hand, why wouldn't they also make a "both" mode? This can have its
> advantages, you would have the same view as someone with natural vision.
> Because _natural_ thermographic is always on (seems logical), together
with
> normal vision. Humans just cannot have an idea how this is, but it exists
> with some animals (I once read about some butterflies, but I guess many
> more - just like animals that see into the UV spectrum). You just have a
> larger spectrum of colors which are detected by the eye at all moments
you
> are using it.

Snakes, I believe, have heat sensing organs, but I'm pretty sure they are
below the eyes on their heads.

> I think Cybertechnology explains that you see normal colors, but "hot"
> sources are brighter than "cold".

I think you're thinking of Fields of Fire, but I think I think I might
think I'm mistaken.

> I think that it even would be better to
> say that you probably see completely different colors! Remember, even if
> you see something that is green, it might just be because your eye is
> receiving blue and yellow light but combining it to green (a cousin of
mine
> misses one of the three kinds of color-receptors and therefore sometimes
> sees different colors than other people).

I just recalled a Shadowrun novel with the main character a Troll. The
name escapes me at the moment but it had a GREEN, SMOOTH SKINNED Troll on
the cover (you gotta love artists impressions of game creatures).

Anywho, the character goblinised in the book and was researching a cure to
make himself "normal" again (he had some hideously high IQ before he
changed and stayed very intelligent although it seemed like he was
"thinking through cotton wool"), and in his apartment he had NO
ornamentation ie. paintings, curtains etc. because he wanted to wait till
he could SEE them properly, meaning: without a thermal overlay.

Ah, it was titled Changling but I still can't remember the author (Dowd?,
Charrette?, Findley?).

Although this is far from canon it gives some ideas of how PCs might see
the world with thermo vision.

> However, there's a difference between most IR and other light: except for
> very hot sources like the sun or lightbulbs (which are created for this
> specific purpose :-), all the light you see is _reflected_ light.
However,
> the IR spectrum is mostly _radiated_ light by the source you are looking
at
> (although it also can reflect IR light, most surfaces absorb IR light).
> Another note: I think I recall that a large part of the IR spectrum is
> absorbed by glass. That means that you won't be able to see through glass
> with thermographic vision only!!!

*GASP* ... but, but, but in the movies ... you can see ppl moving behind
brick walls with IR sniper scopes ... you mean, you mean ... it's all a
LIE!!!

> VrGr David
>
> This is not a signature, every mail I type it again.
>

- Scam

This isn't a signature either, as I'm not witty enough to think of an
orignal one
Message no. 5
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Thermographic Vision (also some Lowlight remarks)
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:49:48 CST
>Ah, it was titled Changling but I still can't remember the author (Dowd?,
>Charrette?, Findley?).

Chris Kabasik

>- Scam
>
>This isn't a signature either, as I'm not witty enough to think of an
>orignal one
>
>
>




Geoff Haacke

"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."



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Message no. 6
From: Damian Robinson max.robinson@**.net.au
Subject: Thermographic Vision (also some Lowlight remarks)
Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 05:33:52 +1000
Quindrael wrote:
>
> >But note, nonthermal data IS still in your "field of view" ... again, a
> >transparent overlay of the thermograph color bands.
>
> The way I understand it, is that cybernetic thermographic vision has > to be
switched "on" and in that case you switch natural vision "off".

It is.
was just looking through the BBB3 and noticed this little tidbit...
P105, 3rd revised ed SR3, Free actions, Activate Cyberware.
"A character may use a free action to activate a piece of cyberware
that is not continually on. This equipment includes <snip>,
Thermograhic vision, and so on. See Cyberware, p296"

--
Cheers
Damian

Home Page:
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Message no. 7
From: Paul J. Adam Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Subject: Thermographic Vision (also some Lowlight remarks)
Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 02:17:30 +0100
In article <13142493782329@*******.bigpond.com>, Sean McGrath
<nafien@*******.com> writes
>*GASP* ... but, but, but in the movies ... you can see ppl moving behind
>brick walls with IR sniper scopes ... you mean, you mean ... it's all a
>LIE!!!

Yep :) Having played with real thermal imagers, I can confirm this. They
see through foliage pretty well, but glass or masonry stops them dead.

Maybe if you leant against a thin wall for a long time you'd warm it
enough to be visible... maybe. But Blue Thunder / Robocop / Navy SEALs
versions, no, doesn't work.


I know Sean was taking the mick, but it's worth pointing out - thermal
imagers are _fantastic_ for picking out warm/cold spots against a
background. Like, a man-overboard in cold sea, or tanks in a forest...
they are quite alarmingly effective. They're good but only _so_ good.


--
Paul J. Adam

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