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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Thermo vision and flare compensation
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:50:35 +0100
Droopy said on 16:02/20 Oct 96...

> > > Granted, on the others Thermo is probably better. But just think about
> > > being a Thermo user when that hell-blast goes off. ;o)
> > >
> > Flare comp works against that.
>
> How, pray tell? flare comp won't change the heat levels caused by
> the hellblast.

I believe you can, however, filter out IR light in much the same way you
filter out "visible" light. All you need for flare compensation is a
filter that responds to light intensity fast enough for the viewer to be
more or less shielded from the glare. The simplest way is to completely
black out vision until the flash is over (used in tank fire control
systems -- pull the trigger and the sight goes black just before the gun
fires) although this is somewhat of a disadvantage when looking at a
continual light source. A halogen flashlight under the barrel of your
weapon would absolutely blind everyone with this kind of flare
compensation, while those without can at least see where the light is
coming from, and shoot at that :)
Although since modern image intensifiers tone down bright lights to
prevent damage to the device and/or the user's eyes, it should be easy
enough to implement this in cybereyes as well.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I've got nothing to say.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 2
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Thermo vision and flare compensation
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 01:20:08 +0000
Gurth said:

> I believe you can, however, filter out IR light in much the same way you
> filter out "visible" light. All you need for flare compensation is a

IR light and heat are two differnt things. Current military night
vision devices (low light enhancement) can see into the IR spectrum,
but are not thermo sensitive at all. The military uses IR sights and
spotlights, neither of which are compatable with thermographic vision.
In fact, the IR spotlight would blind Thermo is you were near it.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Thermo vision and flare compensation
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:01:14 +0100
Droopy said on 1:20/22 Oct 96...

> IR light and heat are two differnt things. Current military night
> vision devices (low light enhancement) can see into the IR spectrum,
> but are not thermo sensitive at all. The military uses IR sights and
> spotlights, neither of which are compatable with thermographic vision.
> In fact, the IR spotlight would blind Thermo is you were near it.

Infrared spotlights are 1940s tech -- German Panther Ausf. D's and A's
were equipped with active IR (spotlight + scope) as early as 1944 for the
driver, commander, and gunner, though for best results they needed a
modified Sd.Kfz. 251 carrying a large IR spotlight.
The Russians still use active IR (even on the latest T-80UM MBTs) but in
any night battle between Russian and western technology, that would only
give the latter bullseyes to aim at. The Russians have realized this, and
from what I read would like passive IR/thermographic night sights, but
they don't have the resources to get them.

Just about all western MBTs are equipped with passive, thermal viewers,
and man-portable versions exist as well. The drawback of these latter is
that most require two hands to use and are too bulky to be fixed to a
rifle, so they don't leave any hands free to operate a weapon. Machine
guns and missile launchers can be fitted with them, though (TOW and Milan
launchers both have thermal night sights).

Personal night vision devices are light aplification systems (larger
versions of which are also carried in most combat vehicles) and these use
part of the near infrared to give a better picture; however, they also
look into the visible spectrum.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I've got nothing to say.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 4
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Thermo vision and flare compensation
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:41:23 +1000
> IR light and heat are two differnt things. Current military night
> vision devices (low light enhancement) can see into the IR spectrum,
> but are not thermo sensitive at all. The military uses IR sights and
> spotlights, neither of which are compatable with thermographic vision.
> In fact, the IR spotlight would blind Thermo is you were near it.
>

Has anyone considered that this may be re-hashing old ground?
Message no. 5
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Thermo vision and flare compensation
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 20:28:20 +0000
Gurth stated:

> The Russians still use active IR (even on the latest T-80UM MBTs) but in
> any night battle between Russian and western technology, that would only
> give the latter bullseyes to aim at. The Russians have realized this, and

The US still uses active IR as well on APC's and the older tanks.

> Personal night vision devices are light aplification systems (larger
> versions of which are also carried in most combat vehicles) and these use
> part of the near infrared to give a better picture; however, they also
> look into the visible spectrum.

They also use the near IR to read maps without visible light.
Military NODS are fitted with a small IR light that lets you see
close objects in complete darkness (like inside a closed up APC.)


--Droopy

droopy@**.net
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Thermo vision and flare compensation
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:03:58 +0100
Droopy said on 20:28/23 Oct 96...

> The US still uses active IR as well on APC's and the older tanks.

Only on older vehicles, like you say -- M113s, M60 MBTs, that sort of
1950s/60s grade equipment. More modern western vehicles don't generally
have IR headlights, and certainly no spotlights (although it's
interesting to see that the M1 Abrams' gun mantlet has attachment points
that seem to fit the visible light/IR spotlights used on M48s and M60s...).

> They also use the near IR to read maps without visible light.
> Military NODS are fitted with a small IR light that lets you see
> close objects in complete darkness (like inside a closed up APC.)

That's because the LL goggles look into the near infrared, as I've said
before. In such a case, it only makes sense to use tiny IR lights for map
reading, since enemies without LL goggles won't be able to see your
light.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...but I don't know...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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