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Message no. 1
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Sorrid History of the Cybergun [was: One handed shotguns]
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 21:44:47 -0400
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At 08:33 AM 7/17/98 -0400, Bryan wrote:
> Maybe its an oversight on my part, but I thought you
HAD
>to have a cyberarm to get a cybergun at all.

Alright, it's time for another one of my "History of Shadowrun"
lessons, in which I go through the rulebooks of times gone by, and
explain how drastically the rules have changed, and some of the why
and wherefore about it. (I believe the last time I did this, it was
for damage vs. vehicles, right?)

In the original Big Blue Book (the first edition of the Shadowrun core
rules, for those who have never seen a Big Book that wasn't Black),
the descriptive narative for cyberlimbs reads, "They also come with a
small storage compartment. Small devices, including pistols, may be
built into that space." On the cyberware chart in the back of the
equipment chapter, under the heading "Limbs" there is a listing for
"Built-In Device" with a nil essence cost, and a price of 4X Normal
Cost. Presumably, this means that a small device installed into a
cyberlimb costs 4 times as much as it usually would.

Cyberguns were offically introduced in the SSC, way back in '89. They
had essence cost, and a weight that became a permanent encumberance
penalty. In the descriptive narative, it is specifically stated that
they were "designed for installation in cyberarm." However, the piece
of line art associated with the catalog entry for Cyberguns looks like
an X-ray of a meat arm with some sort of gun implanted in it. I can
tell you, from direct experience, that this lead to several people
buying cyberguns for their character's meat arms, despite them being
described for use in cyberarms. (After all, why would it cost extra
essence, when other built-in devices don't?)

When the Big Black Book came out, FASA included a chapter in the back,
called Sourcebook Updates. From what I can tell, FASA must have been
questioned about cybergun essence costs. They realized that here were
guns "designed for installation in cyberarm," and therefore, they
should fall under the same category of "Built-In Device." As a result,
in the Sourcebook Updates chapter, they issued this rule, and I
directly quote: "Cyberguns no longer have an Essence Cost. Merry
Christmas."

I bullshit you not, they actually said "Merry Christmas." I assume
that the second edition of the SCC was edited to reflect this new
change, but can not confirm that, as I never bothered to buy SSC 2ed.

Anyway, this lead to all sorts of assorted weirdness, as many people
had been putting cyberguns in meat arms, all because the item's
artwork strongly implied it could be done. Many GMs had allowed this
too, since the items did have an essence cost. However, with FASA's
"Merry Christmas" ruling, the situation was no longer clear. In my
personal experience, the local House Rule was: "Meat arm? It costs
Essence. Metal Arm? Merry Christmas." Of course, most of the local SR
players had access to first edition SSCs, or could look up the essence
cost in the chart in the back of Shadowtech. For gaming groups that
only had the second edition SSC, and no Shadowtech book, I imagine
that the houserule was "I don't care what the art looks like, the text
says cyberarms only!"

Finally, when Cybertechnology was released, FASA accepted the fact
that people had been putting these things into meat arms, though I
strongly suspect that their orignal intent for that piece of ware was
cyberarm-only, and they never realized the impact that the misleading
artwork would have. (I've noticed that they've taken greater care in
screening their artwork in more recent sourcebooks; in FoF for
example, if the text describes a gun as not being able to accept
barrel mount accessories, then the artwork strongly reflects this.)

The rule, as it stands now, is that you can put a cybergun in a meat
arm, but it will cost you essence. A cybergun in a cyberarm does not.


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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
Message no. 2
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Sorrid History of the Cybergun [was: One handed shotguns]
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 00:23:33 -0500
On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 21:44:47 -0400 Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
writes:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>At 08:33 AM 7/17/98 -0400, Bryan wrote:
<SNIP>
>I bullshit you not, they actually said "Merry Christmas." I assume
>that the second edition of the SCC was edited to reflect this new
>change, but can not confirm that, as I never bothered to buy SSC 2ed.
<SNIP>
<SNIP PGP>
> -- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
<SNIP More PGP and Sig>

SSC 2nd Ed does not have an Essence column ... which is odd normally
something that doesn't have an essence cost still has a column for
essence cost with a little - to signify that it's a freebie (essence wise
at least ...) I wonder if FASA got a lot of e-mail despite what was in
the back of the BBB about the essence cost of cyberguns ... :)

Nice History Lesson Proffessor Paul, Btw ;)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone"

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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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Message no. 3
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Sorrid History of the Cybergun [was: One handed shotguns]
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:33:11 -0400
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At 12:23 AM 7/18/98 -0500, D.Ghost wrote:
>On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 21:44:47 -0400 Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
>writes:
>>I bullshit you not, they actually said "Merry Christmas." I assume
>>that the second edition of the SCC was edited to reflect this new
>>change, but can not confirm that, as I never bothered to buy SSC
2ed.

>SSC 2nd Ed does not have an Essence column ... which is odd normally
>something that doesn't have an essence cost still has a column for
>essence cost with a little - to signify that it's a freebie (essence
wise
>at least ...) I wonder if FASA got a lot of e-mail despite what was
in
>the back of the BBB about the essence cost of cyberguns ... :)

To be brutally honest, there was no Essence column on the Cybergun
page in the 1st SSC either. The essence was listed on the master
essence cost chart in the back. Is it the same in the second SSC?
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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
Message no. 4
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Sorrid History of the Cybergun [was: One handed shotguns]
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:37:00 -0500
On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:33:11 -0400 Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
writes:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>At 12:23 AM 7/18/98 -0500, D.Ghost wrote:
<SNIP>
>>SSC 2nd Ed does not have an Essence column ... which is odd normally
>>something that doesn't have an essence cost still has a column for
>>essence cost with a little - to signify that it's a freebie (essence
wise
>>at least ...) I wonder if FASA got a lot of e-mail despite what was in
>>the back of the BBB about the essence cost of cyberguns ... :)

>To be brutally honest, there was no Essence column on the Cybergun
>page in the 1st SSC either. The essence was listed on the master
>essence cost chart in the back. Is it the same in the second SSC?
<SNIP PGP>
> -- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
<SNIP More PGP>

Nope, all the other cyberware has essence costs listed on the same page
as the stats/descriptions ... like in Shadowtech ...

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone"

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 5
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Sorrid History of the Cybergun [was: One handed shotguns]
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:36:43 -0400
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At 01:37 PM 7/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:33:11 -0400 Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
>writes:
>>To be brutally honest, there was no Essence column on the Cybergun
>>page in the 1st SSC either. The essence was listed on the master
>>essence cost chart in the back. Is it the same in the second SSC?

>Nope, all the other cyberware has essence costs listed on the same
page
>as the stats/descriptions ... like in Shadowtech ...

You misunderstand me. I'm not talking about the catalog entries, I'm
talking about the master charts in the back of the book.

In my first edition SSC, all the catalog entries for the cyberware had
essence costs listed on the same page as the stats/descriptions, like
in Shadowtech. EXCEPT for Cyberguns. (This is exactly the same as you
describe for 2nd ed. SSC)

However, there WAS an essence cost listed for cyberguns, on the master
essence cost chart in the back of the book.

In the back of your second edition SSC, on the master essence cost
chart, are there essence costs listed for cyberguns?
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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
Message no. 6
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Sorrid History of the Cybergun [was: One handed shotguns]
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:08:55 -0500
On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:36:43 -0400 Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
writes:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>At 01:37 PM 7/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:33:11 -0400 Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
>>writes:
>>>To be brutally honest, there was no Essence column on the Cybergun
>>>page in the 1st SSC either. The essence was listed on the master
>>>essence cost chart in the back. Is it the same in the second SSC?

>>Nope, all the other cyberware has essence costs listed on the same page
>>as the stats/descriptions ... like in Shadowtech ...

>You misunderstand me. I'm not talking about the catalog entries, I'm
>talking about the master charts in the back of the book.
>
>In my first edition SSC, all the catalog entries for the cyberware had
>essence costs listed on the same page as the stats/descriptions, like
>in Shadowtech. EXCEPT for Cyberguns. (This is exactly the same as you
>describe for 2nd ed. SSC)
>
>However, there WAS an essence cost listed for cyberguns, on the master
>essence cost chart in the back of the book.
>
>In the back of your second edition SSC, on the master essence cost
>chart, are there essence costs listed for cyberguns?
<SNIP PGP>
> -- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
<SNIP More PGP>

Ahhhhh ... I see ... ok, then it is just as you said, the format is
unchanged from 1rst to second Edition (you know since I look up the stats
elswhere [in the BBB, FoF, Shadowtech, or CyberTech] and just use SSC for
the descriptions, I din't even realize there WAS a master chart in the
back of the book ... [or more likely I forgot it was there ...])

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Television Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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Message no. 7
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Sorrid History of the Cybergun [was: One handed shotguns]
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 17:35:15 EDT
The Cybertechnology book pg 52 lists the essence loss for cybergun, with a
note that they have no loss when mounted in the cyberlimb.

Further Reading

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