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Message no. 1
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:33:36 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

I ask you in advance to forgive this post, but I simply had to tell
the list the good news.

As of the time my mail arrived today today, I am the proud owner of
one each of the following:

FASA 7000: Shadowrun, Third Edition Hardback

FASA 7900: Shadowrun, Second Edition Hardback

and the very latest in my collection--
FASA 7101: Shadowrun, First Edition Hardback

I can now thwak my munchkins upside the head in all three editions. Or
if I want to knock them cold, I can use all three at the same time.

You won't hear any more complaints from me about my First Edition
being in a state of disrepair, now that I have a replacement for my
tattered remnants of a softcover.

(Now if I could just secure a copy of FASA 7000, the BABY, for my
Co-GM, then everything would be going great. Surely someone has an
extra they could sell off)

One question: when was the artwork in the first edition Equipment
chapter changed, and why? I gather it was sometime before the
corrected seventh printing of the softcover (since it's not in my
original copy of SR1) but if anyone knows any details, I'd like to
hear them.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:13:08 +0200
According to Paul Gettle, at 22:33 on 30 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> FASA 7000: Shadowrun, Third Edition Hardback

That one doesn't have a FASA serial number, or even an ISBN. At least,
mine doesn't -- all it says on the spine is "SHADOWRUN [SR "S"] FASA
CORPORATION".

> and the very latest in my collection--
> FASA 7101: Shadowrun, First Edition Hardback

Does it smell of toothpaste? My first-ed hardback (bought at Euro GenCon
last year) does. I have no idea why it has that smell, though...

> One question: when was the artwork in the first edition Equipment
> chapter changed, and why? I gather it was sometime before the
> corrected seventh printing of the softcover (since it's not in my
> original copy of SR1) but if anyone knows any details, I'd like to
> hear them.

What do you mean? My first edition softback (5th printing) has the same
artwork in the Equipment chapter as my hardback (2nd printing).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Nobody's going to murder anyone here even if it means I have to
kill someone!" --Kane, detective/rigger
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: greg basa <demipop@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:15:57 -0400
>I ask you in advance to forgive this post, but I simply had to tell
>the list the good news.
>
>As of the time my mail arrived today today, I am the proud owner of
>one each of the following:
>
>FASA 7000: Shadowrun, Third Edition Hardback
>
>FASA 7900: Shadowrun, Second Edition Hardback
>
>and the very latest in my collection--
>FASA 7101: Shadowrun, First Edition Hardback
>
>I can now thwak my munchkins upside the head in all three editions. Or
>if I want to knock them cold, I can use all three at the same time.
>
>You won't hear any more complaints from me about my First Edition
>being in a state of disrepair, now that I have a replacement for my
>tattered remnants of a softcover.
>
>(Now if I could just secure a copy of FASA 7000, the BABY, for my
>Co-GM, then everything would be going great. Surely someone has an
>extra they could sell off)
>
>One question: when was the artwork in the first edition Equipment
>chapter changed, and why? I gather it was sometime before the
>corrected seventh printing of the softcover (since it's not in my
>original copy of SR1) but if anyone knows any details, I'd like to
>hear them.


Hey, I don't suppose you can find another hardcover to SR2 and 3, no? I
have the first edition hardback myself. Nothing special, expect that it's
signed by the artists...

I take it the illos were changed because of copyright infringements. FASA's
gotten close with some of those weapon similarities.
-----

Greg's homepage: angelkiller's domain

http://www.mindspring.com/~demipop/AK404.html
Message no. 4
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:23:59 -0400
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At 01:13 PM 10/1/98 +0200, Gurth wrote:
>> FASA 7000: Shadowrun, Third Edition Hardback
>
>That one doesn't have a FASA serial number, or even an ISBN. At
least,
>mine doesn't -- all it says on the spine is "SHADOWRUN [SR "S"] FASA
>CORPORATION".

When it was on the website, they gave it the a FASA Catalog number of
7000.
Here, you can check for yourself on the page on the web catalog (the
page is still up, it just lists the item as Discontinued):
http://www.fasa.com/Shadowrun/Catalog/product10497.html

>> and the very latest in my collection--
>> FASA 7101: Shadowrun, First Edition Hardback
>
>Does it smell of toothpaste? My first-ed hardback (bought at Euro
GenCon
>last year) does. I have no idea why it has that smell, though...

Mine doesn't seem to have any discernable smell. This might be because
I've recently had an alergy flare-up, but I don't think my sense of
smell is that impared.

>> One question: when was the artwork in the first edition Equipment
>> chapter changed, and why?
>
>What do you mean? My first edition softback (5th printing) has the
same
>artwork in the Equipment chapter as my hardback (2nd printing).

My first ed. hardback doesn't have any indication as to what printing
it is, so I think it's safe to assume that I have a 1st printing
hardback (Which is cool, I didn't know they'd reprinted the thing).
Specifically, the artwork that's different is in the tables section of
the Equipment chapter:

p. 135-- artwork of an ornate sword, with the tip of the blade falling
right betewen the "Weight" and the "Cost" columns of the pistols
section of the Firearms table.
p. 136-- artwork of a "Whitney-Morgan 30mm Automatic Assault Cannon"
at the botom of the page.
p. 137-- artwork of a "Chandler Capture 100 Shotgun" at the bottom,
below the Survival Gear chart.
p. 139-- artwork of a "Cyberdeck-7th Gen" (which looks remarkably like
a Macintosh keyboard) at the bottom, below the Sensors chart.

If your 2nd printing first edition hardback doesn't have any of this
art, I think we've narrowed down when the artwork was removed.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:08:11 +0200
According to Paul Gettle, at 22:23 on 1 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> >> FASA 7101: Shadowrun, First Edition Hardback
> >
> >Does it smell of toothpaste? My first-ed hardback (bought at Euro
> GenCon
> >last year) does. I have no idea why it has that smell, though...
>
> Mine doesn't seem to have any discernable smell. This might be because
> I've recently had an alergy flare-up, but I don't think my sense of
> smell is that impared.

The smell on mine is very noticable. Even with my nose half blocked as it
is ATM, I can smell it as soon as I open the book. I wonder what the
previous owner did to it, apart from pencil in some stuff near the
condition monitors, and apparently never use it again after that (it looks
brand-new).

> My first ed. hardback doesn't have any indication as to what printing
> it is, so I think it's safe to assume that I have a 1st printing
> hardback (Which is cool, I didn't know they'd reprinted the thing).

I didn't either, until last year :)

> Specifically, the artwork that's different is in the tables section of
> the Equipment chapter:
[snip]
> If your 2nd printing first edition hardback doesn't have any of this
> art, I think we've narrowed down when the artwork was removed.

No, there's none of that art in it. IIRC they also changed some of the
text for assigning priorities for new characters between first and second
printings -- in 1st, you assigned 10 points (like the optional rules in
the Companion and MechWarrior 2nd edition), while in 2nd (and later) you
picked one of each priority.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Nobody's going to murder anyone here even if it means I have to
kill someone!" --Kane, detective/rigger
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: Dhl9@***.COM
Subject: Re: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:24:44 EDT
In a message dated 10/2/98 5:09:44 AM AST, gurth@******.NL writes:

> The smell on mine is very noticable. Even with my nose half blocked as it
> is ATM, I can smell it as soon as I open the book. I wonder what the
> previous owner did to it, apart from pencil in some stuff near the
> condition monitors, and apparently never use it again after that (it looks
> brand-new).
>

I have 3 of the first edition hardcovers. One is in mint condition and I
thought I had another after I hurriedly plucked it from the shelf of a used
book store. The cover was immaculate. When I got it home I discovered that the
previous owner had taken colored pens and had his way with most of the
pictures. Neat and tidy but still he ruined the book.
Message no. 7
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:36:55 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 11:08 AM 10/2/98 +0200, you wrote:
>No, there's none of that art in it. IIRC they also changed some of
the
>text for assigning priorities for new characters between first and
second
>printings -- in 1st, you assigned 10 points (like the optional rules
in
>the Companion and MechWarrior 2nd edition), while in 2nd (and later)
you
>picked one of each priority.

This is correct, my copy has the "Sum-to-10" system in it.
I suppose my next question would be does anyone know when FASA started
printing the softcover of first edition: was it before or after they'd
put out the second printing of the hardback?

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 8
From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:40:25 -0400
In our last episode, Paul Gettle wrote:
>
> <0.00000000237MP of examples Deleted>
>
> If your 2nd printing first edition hardback doesn't have any of this
> art, I think we've narrowed down when the artwork was removed.

I checked my <very> old SR1 SB -- nope, none of the aforementioned
pictures are in it, just a lot of oddly placed white-space around said
tables.

Oh yea, it's a *Corrected* Third Printing.

--Fenris (who wouldn't _dream_ of soiling BABY #939 on the
head of a Munchkin, but I *could* do the sound of
3 SOFTbacks, if properly provoked...)
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
Still Knobi after all these years!
www.intercom.net/user/logan1/bkk.htm
Message no. 9
From: Micheal Feeney <Starrngr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:18:52 EDT
In a message dated 98-10-02 05:09:46 EDT, you write:

<<
No, there's none of that art in it. IIRC they also changed some of the
text for assigning priorities for new characters between first and second
printings -- in 1st, you assigned 10 points (like the optional rules in
the Companion and MechWarrior 2nd edition), while in 2nd (and later) you
picked one of each priority.
>>

The allowance of flexable points was removed in going from first to second
edition, and the one thing I disliked. It was, however, strictly optional,
needed to be approved by your GM, and was probobly removed because otherwise
you had charecters running around with tons of attributes skills and money.
(4,3,3 for Att Skill, Resources would be very common for anyone desiring a non
magical human.) I suppose I can understand its being removed for game
balance, but I do miss it. Ya gotta admit, it does make charecter creation a
lot more interesting....
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:43:56 +0200
According to Micheal Feeney, at 0:18 on 4 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> The allowance of flexable points was removed in going from first to second
> edition,

You mean printing. I can tell you with 100% certainty that that option is
NOT in my second printing SR1 hardback, and I've heard of several people
that it _is_ in the first printing of that same book.

> I suppose I can understand its being removed for game balance, but I do
> miss it. Ya gotta admit, it does make charecter creation a lot more
> interesting....

The Companion has an optional rule that allows exactly that, and anyway
you can always make a house rule that says you can spend 10 points this
way.

For myself, on the one hand I like the flexibility, while on the other I'm
afraid to let a few of my players use it...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Nobody's going to murder anyone here even if it means I have to
kill someone!" --Kane, detective/rigger
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: Rook <rook@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:24:02 -0700
> For myself, on the one hand I like the flexibility, while on the other I'm
> afraid to let a few of my players use it...

As a 15 year Champions GM I can attest that having total flexability is
a dream come true. But it requires honest players AND a GM with an
extremely sharp eye for details. Cause even an honest player can
accidentally munchkinize. So I think in SR I like that it's moved to an
optional rules section.

--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â WebRPG TownHall Magistrate
townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ Nothing vast enters the life of mortals without a curse.
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site
Message no. 12
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:49:44 EDT
In a message dated 10/4/1998 4:47:08 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

>
> The Companion has an optional rule that allows exactly that, and anyway
> you can always make a house rule that says you can spend 10 points this
> way.
>
> For myself, on the one hand I like the flexibility, while on the other I'm
> afraid to let a few of my players use it...
>
Ah yes, it only takes one to spoil everyone' fun....

-K
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: The sound of 3 Hardbacks smacked upside the head of a munckin.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:54:28 +0200
According to Rook, at 13:24 on 4 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> > For myself, on the one hand I like the flexibility, while on the other I'm
> > afraid to let a few of my players use it...
>
> As a 15 year Champions GM I can attest that having total flexability is
> a dream come true. But it requires honest players AND a GM with an
> extremely sharp eye for details. Cause even an honest player can
> accidentally munchkinize. So I think in SR I like that it's moved to an
> optional rules section.

Well, I have one player who I'd describe as a maxer -- not a min-maxer,
just a maxer. If I give him the option of using 10 points he'll end up
with more nuyen, skill, and attribute points than he already does (every
char he makes seems to start with 400K or a million nuyen, for example).
Then there's the player who analyzes the system (which the others don't)
and bases many of his character-making decisions on his conclusions.

Not that I'm saying these are bad things per se (they could be, if they're
abused) but giving the players 10 points to play with will lead to
slightly different characters, and I have a feeling probably for worse.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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