Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:04:05 -0400
At 12:26 PM 7/21/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>Bull wrote:
>> Also, I don;t keep track of ammo, and don;t make my players do that either,
>> except in extreme situations... Thus going for the John Woo Automatic
>> Reloads in less than a second...;]
>
>Hmmm...I think that running out of ammo makes it waaaayy more fun. :)
>
Yeah, but... I'm lazy, and so are my players...

If you've ever played the Star Wars RPG, there is a concept in that game
called the WIld Die. basically, it's an off color die that you roll for
pretty much every dice test, even if you only need to roll one die, you
roll that one.

The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD. Since SW doesn't use an open ended d6, I
always used a 6 on the wild die as an open ended 6, while on a one,
something really bad happened. This varied depending on what I wanted to
make happen, but most often it meant that they ran out of ammo (Those power
cells on blasters are SO darned unpredictable...;] ).

Now, I've been thinking of instituting something similar for SR, though I'm
not sure exactly what a 6 result could be since there already are open
ended sixes... Howeverm a 1 could definately mean something like out of
ammo, or a gun jam...;]

>Caric-the-*click*-frag!!!-shaman
>
Heh... i like it...;]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
Message no. 2
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:20:45 -0700
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
>
> If you've ever played the Star Wars RPG, there is a concept in that game
> called the WIld Die.
>
> The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
> 1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD.
>
> Now, I've been thinking of instituting something similar for SR, though I'm
> not sure exactly what a 6 result could be since there already are open
> ended sixes... Howeverm a 1 could definately mean something like out of
> ammo, or a gun jam...;]
>
Unless your players don't take care of their guns, or they are full-auto freaks,
I think this would cause your BAD result to happen much to often. Statistically,
every sixth time someone fires a gun, it will jam, run out of ammo, etc., which
I think might be a little too often to be believable.

Perhaps if a one comes up, reroll the Wild Die, and depending on the situation
and the number rolled, you get varied results.

For example:

For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable sized clip:
1 = Jam
2 = Out of ammo
3-6 = no effect

For a revolver or magazine fed weapon:
1 = Jam
2-5(or 6) = Out of ammo

For an LMG on full auto:
1 = Jam/smoking barrel/ammo spontaneously cooks off
2-5 Out of ammo

If the gun has been poorly maintained, or the ammo is of questionable quality,
increase the chance of a jam/misfire.

Mike Paff
Message no. 3
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:23:04 +1000
> The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
> 1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD. Since SW doesn't use an open ended d6, I
> always used a 6 on the wild die as an open ended 6, while on a one,
> something really bad happened. This varied depending on what I wanted to
> make happen, but most often it meant that they ran out of ammo (Those power
> cells on blasters are SO darned unpredictable...;] ).

Heh... one of my friends had really bad luck with his wild die. :) He
blew up 6 or 7 blaster powerpacks in a row. Very professional, tough
bounty hunter - with a gun that keeps exploding. :)

I started calling him the Big Bad Bounty Hunter... until he hit me. :)

> "Gen Con, here I come!"
> -- Me

I hate you. :)

Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 4
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:29:47 +1000
> Perhaps if a one comes up, reroll the Wild Die, and depending on the situation
> and the number rolled, you get varied results.
>
> For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable sized clip:
> 1 = Jam
> 2 = Out of ammo
> 3-6 = no effect

I don't think Out of Ammo should be included... "Yep, I pull out my
Manhawk. Check it's loaded. Yup? Okay... I run into the Stuffer Shack
and yell 'Give me all your money!' I shoot a customer to make my point."

<rolling dice> "Okay... you're out of ammo."

"WHAT???"


Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 5
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 05:02:29 +0200
>>Bull wrote:
>
>If you've ever played the Star Wars RPG, there is a concept in that game
>called the WIld Die. basically, it's an off color die that you roll for
>pretty much every dice test, even if you only need to roll one die, you
>roll that one.
>
>The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
>1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD. Since SW doesn't use an open ended d6, I
>always used a 6 on the wild die as an open ended 6, while on a one,
>something really bad happened. This varied depending on what I wanted to
>make happen, but most often it meant that they ran out of ammo (Those power
>cells on blasters are SO darned unpredictable...;] ).



One thing about the SR firearms system that always mystified me was how
chars could decide how many shotys they would fire in a burst. I know all
about set three round bursts, but come on how do you decide to fire 5 shots
at a target and then pull the trigger and gosh darn 5 slugs streak away!
there should be some variance here its too convienient and contrived. Enter
the all powerful Four sided die.
Roll of 1 = fire one less
Roll of 2 = fire intended number of shots
Roll of 3 = fire one more
Roll of 4 = fire two more

I think this tends to show that people would rather fire more shots than
less and make sure they hit/kill what they were aiming at.

Thats me

Thanks
>>>>>>BRUCE
"Dont hit me, I just drive the car!"
-Sharkboy, our Rigger to peeved razorgal<<<<<<<
Message no. 6
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:07:06 -0400
At 05:02 AM 7/22/97 +0200, Bruce wrote these timeless words:

>One thing about the SR firearms system that always mystified me was how
>chars could decide how many shotys they would fire in a burst. I know all
>about set three round bursts, but come on how do you decide to fire 5 shots
>at a target and then pull the trigger and gosh darn 5 slugs streak away!
>
Actually, very few weapons in SR actually fire a busrt shot. You can fire
multiple shots in a turn, though. This is called pulling the trigger
repeatedly...;]

I never really played to much with the blasters that fired "bursts". i
kept them out of the hands of my players, and never really used them on the
badguys, except for the occasional "Threat" :]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
Message no. 7
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 07:04:29 +0200
At 03:07 AM 22-07-97 -0400, you (Bull) wrote:

>>
>Actually, very few weapons in SR actually fire a busrt shot. You can fire
>multiple shots in a turn, though. This is called pulling the trigger
>repeatedly...;]
>
>I never really played to much with the blasters that fired "bursts". i
>kept them out of the hands of my players, and never really used them on the
>badguys, except for the occasional "Threat" :]
>
Three things Bully....

Quite a few SMGs and ARs fire in BF mode (three round burst fire)

A Sammy with four actions is gonna be doing a lot of trigger pulling ( full
auto ya bum !!!)

The Blasters you refer to are ( luckily ) over in the Star Wars List.

ThaTs me


>>>>>>BRUCE
"Dont hit me, I just drive the car!"
-Sharkboy, our Rigger to peeved razorgal<<<<<<<
Message no. 8
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 04:59:00 -0400
At 07:04 AM 7/22/97 +0200, Bruce wrote these timeless words:

>>Actually, very few weapons in SR actually fire a busrt shot. You can fire
>>multiple shots in a turn, though. This is called pulling the trigger
>>repeatedly...;]
>>
<ACK!!! I goofed and typed the wrong acronym... that should read SW, not
SR...:)>

>Three things Bully....
>
>Quite a few SMGs and ARs fire in BF mode (three round burst fire)
>
>A Sammy with four actions is gonna be doing a lot of trigger pulling ( full
>auto ya bum !!!)
>
Hey, I goofed... Sue me...:] it happens from time to time...;]
Especially when I can't type fro drek...

>The Blasters you refer to are ( luckily ) over in the Star Wars List.
>
Well, since the blasters and the multiple firing from Star Wars RPG were
what was being discussed, I figured it was relevant...

>ThaTs me
>
And me! :]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:07:31 +0100
Bull said on 18:04/21 Jul 97...

> The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
> 1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD. Since SW doesn't use an open ended d6, I
> always used a 6 on the wild die as an open ended 6

Unless I'm severely mistaken, the wild die _is_ open-ended in the SW
RPG...

> Now, I've been thinking of instituting something similar for SR, though I'm
> not sure exactly what a 6 result could be since there already are open
> ended sixes... Howeverm a 1 could definately mean something like out of
> ammo, or a gun jam...;]

Maybe you should get one of those D6s that have a skull (or whatever)
instead of a 1. That way players won't have to ask "Which die is it again
that I shouldn't roll a 1 on...?" :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 10
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma) -Reply
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:14:33 -0500
Mike Paff wrote:
> For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable
>sized clip:
> 1 = Jam
> 2 = Out of ammo
> 3-6 = no effect

You realize that this house rule would mean that
heavy pistols jam about once per clip.

Double-Domed Mike
-going to the Lilith Fair today!
Message no. 11
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:40:55 -0400
At 12:07 PM 7/22/97 +0100, Gurth wrote these timeless words:
>Bull said on 18:04/21 Jul 97...
>
>> The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
>> 1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD. Since SW doesn't use an open ended d6, I
>> always used a 6 on the wild die as an open ended 6
>
>Unless I'm severely mistaken, the wild die _is_ open-ended in the SW
>RPG...
>
Actually, The wild die can be used in a couple ways...

1) On a roll of one, you remove both the wild die and you're highest
rolling other die, or something really bad happens...

2) On a six, it can eiether be a Good thing happens (Like the BAD thing
that happens when you roll a one), or you use it as an open ended 6.
Generally, the open ended d6 is what gets used more often than not, but I
did know a GM that didn't use (He explained that he had a guy roll a 6 8
times, and allowed him to make this hideously high target number that
wasn't SUPPOSED to be beaten, so he stopped allowing the open ended 6's to
prevent that... ,shrug>)

>> Now, I've been thinking of instituting something similar for SR, though I'm
>> not sure exactly what a 6 result could be since there already are open
>> ended sixes... Howeverm a 1 could definately mean something like out of
>> ammo, or a gun jam...;]
>
>Maybe you should get one of those D6s that have a skull (or whatever)
>instead of a 1. That way players won't have to ask "Which die is it again
>that I shouldn't roll a 1 on...?" :)
>
I have some of those. I used to have one that I used in college when i
played SW... The skull wore off on it...:]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
Message no. 12
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma) -Reply
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:21:51 +0100
Mike Elkins said on 9:14/22 Jul 97...

> > For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable
> >sized clip:
> > 1 = Jam
> > 2 = Out of ammo
> > 3-6 = no effect
>
> You realize that this house rule would mean that
> heavy pistols jam about once per clip.

That's always a problem with rolling an extra die for these things. Making
it a D20 or D30 would be best I think, since the chance of a jam or being
out of ammo isn't all that big then. A D6 is just plain silly IMO, because
with the table above something will come up once every 3 shots...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 13
From: Michael Paff <mikepaff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma) -Reply
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:11:39 -0700
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
> Mike Paff wrote:
> > For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable
> >sized clip:
> > 1 = Jam
> > 2 = Out of ammo
> > 3-6 = no effect
>
> You realize that this house rule would mean that
> heavy pistols jam about once per clip.
>
Yes, I realize that. I was trying to improve on Bull's suggestion
where rolling a one on a specific die causes something bad to happen
(a 1 in 6 chance). My initial suggestion reduced the likelyhood
significantly (2 in 36) without requiring large amounts of bookkeeping
or dice rolling, i.e. "You just rolled a one on your wild die, now roll
15d6 and let me know the results of each individual die... 15 minutes
later... OK, nothing unusual happened".

Personally, I would prefer that the players and GM keep track of ammo
rather than relying on random chance. For gun jams and other oops, the
revised rules in FOF are not too bad.

Mike Paff
Message no. 14
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma) -Reply
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:22:33 -0600
Gurth wrote:

> Mike Elkins said on 9:14/22 Jul 97...
>
> > > For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable
> > >sized clip:
> > > 1 = Jam
> > > 2 = Out of ammo
> > > 3-6 = no effect
> >
> > You realize that this house rule would mean that
> > heavy pistols jam about once per clip.
>
> That's always a problem with rolling an extra die for these things.
> Making
> it a D20 or D30 would be best I think, since the chance of a jam or
> being
> out of ammo isn't all that big then. A D6 is just plain silly IMO,
> because
> with the table above something will come up once every 3 shots...
>

OK clear this up for me first you fole a d6, 1/6 chance of something
Bad, right. then you roll it again and have a 2/6 chance of something
Bad happening (jam/NoAmo) by my math this isn't happening every 3
shots, It looks like you forgot that you first have to roll a 1 on the
Wild Die. I could be totaly wrong here, but I think it's more like 2/36
chance of a problem with your gun. not 1/3.

Caun :}
Message no. 15
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma) -Reply
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100
Caun Haskins said on 23:22/22 Jul 97...

> OK clear this up for me first you fole a d6, 1/6 chance of something
> Bad, right. then you roll it again and have a 2/6 chance of something
> Bad happening (jam/NoAmo) by my math this isn't happening every 3
> shots, It looks like you forgot that you first have to roll a 1 on the
> Wild Die. I could be totaly wrong here, but I think it's more like 2/36
> chance of a problem with your gun. not 1/3.

The way I understood it was that if the wild die ended up a 1, the gun
jammed, and if it ended up a 2, it was out of ammo. I must have missed
something somewhere, so that's why I suggested using a D20 or D30. If done
the way you described it just now, then yeah, the chance is much smaller.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 16
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma) -Reply
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 05:25:59 -0600
> Perhaps if a one comes up, reroll the Wild Die, and depending on the situation
> and the number rolled, you get varied results.
>
from Lady Jestyer on Monday 16:20 post.

that's what I was saying about it beeing 2/36 not 1/3.

Caun :}

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma), you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.