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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "James R. Angove" <jim621@********.edu>
Subject: Re: Thor weapons ( was Killing in Shadowrun...)
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:31:20 -0700 (PDT)
An observation regarding the entire thor thread. I have not read every
single last post involved but I am seeing a general tendency to view thor
as something it is not: a strategic weapons system. Thor is, on the
contrary a _tactical_ system. It does not have the strikeing power or KE
to deal massive earth shaking damage. Want to kill a brigade size armor
unit? 3rd ACR on your ass and you need to remove'em QUICK? Thor will,
in priniple, do this. Want to reduce the great NYC Met area to a
rapidly expanding cloud of plasma and dust the countryside with
radiocative ash. If thor's all the K-kill you have you are SOL. There are
kinetic kill weapons which do have this power and I will comment on them
shortly. My final comment on thor is this. Because of it's small size,
large numbers, and relative eltronic simplicity, it is very difficuly to
stop in the needed numbers /w current tech.

Regarding big K-Kill weapons. While it is possible to aquire such weaps.
under SR tech levels, the move to do so would be exceedingly obvious, and
would be opposed _ACTIVLY_ by everyone. Why? Because contrary to
something somebody implied, once a mid-size hunk of rock is tossed at a
planet it is very hard to stop. Toss a nuke at it? great. You now have
the same mass (less what? .02% of the mass in the actual plasma ball at
ground zero?) shotguning at you with basicly the same reletive verocity.
K-Kill it back? GREAT! all we need is a mass AT LEAST equal the the
dinsour killer (Or velocity exactly opposite, or some combo such that
[k1(v1*m1)+k2(v2*m2)]=0)* , in a orbit such that upon intersection /w
the rock it will take it out of both impact with the planet AND prevent
the rock from winding up orbiting (unless, o/c, you are trying for a
string of movies of the week by averting certain doom several times.
I know _I_ can pull that out of my pocket in 30 seconds flat.


*this equation is a slight fib. Ipso facto, the eqn. I gave assumes that
you are in basicly a direcly solar opposite orbit. The whole idea needs
to be expressed using calculus to build the equation, allowing us to
descibe a more inclusive set of possiblities. A clear contridiction to
my eqn comes, for example, when our `counter-weight' is in n orbit such
that the momentum vector of CW is prependicular to DK at the point of
impact. They would then (I may be wrong here I just realized NTL:) both
miss home sweet biosphere.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds" -- Statement found in
the Win95 source code; believed to be the secret motto of Microsoft.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"But moderator! I started out on topic! Really I did! The whole fudge
covered gerbils thing was and ACCIDENT!!!"
Message no. 2
From: acgetchell@*******.edu (Adam Getchell)
Subject: Re: Thor weapons ( was Killing in Shadowrun...)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 07:27:48 -0700
>shortly. My final comment on thor is this. Because of it's small size,
>large numbers, and relative eltronic simplicity, it is very difficuly to
>stop in the needed numbers /w current tech.

This assumes someone lets you put that many up there. These de-orbiting
kinetic kill weapons would be very carefully watched, since of course it is
rather easy to predict when they are in range, being _orbital_ weapons.

>Regarding big K-Kill weapons. While it is possible to aquire such weaps.
>under SR tech levels, the move to do so would be exceedingly obvious, and
>would be opposed _ACTIVLY_ by everyone. Why? Because contrary to
>something somebody implied, once a mid-size hunk of rock is tossed at a
>planet it is very hard to stop. Toss a nuke at it? great. You now have
>the same mass (less what? .02% of the mass in the actual plasma ball at

This is incorrect. The principle behind stopping a large kinetic kill
weapon is breaking it up into smaller chunks which will then burn up in the
atmosphere. A cloud of plasma from a nuclear strike would do so quite
nicely. Contrary to your comments, a nuclear device is capable of
pulverizing a substantial portion of a large rock into plasma. Especially
in near vacuum conditions, where the typical shock wave manifests as a
pulse of x-rays.

Also note that in an explosion, momentum is conserved. In the
center-of-mass frame of reference for the nuke-asteroid system, the
velocity vectors sum to zero, meaning that all possible solid angle
trajectories are generated. This reduces fragments by half at least, for an
exoatmospheric intercept. More distant intercept ranges decrease striking
fragments as the inverse square of the distance.

>ground zero?) shotguning at you with basicly the same reletive verocity.
>K-Kill it back? GREAT! all we need is a mass AT LEAST equal the the
>dinsour killer (Or velocity exactly opposite, or some combo such that
>[k1(v1*m1)+k2(v2*m2)]=0)* , in a orbit such that upon intersection /w

As you noticed, this equation is completely wrong, actually. It does not
take orbital mechanics into consideration (colloquially, centripetal and
coriolis acceleration due to motion in a curved path). When this is taken
into account it is possible for very small nudges to be sufficient.

As a reference, you might read up on the Spaceguard project.

>"But moderator! I started out on topic! Really I did! The whole fudge
>covered gerbils thing was and ACCIDENT!!!"

=================================================================
Adam Getchell
acgetchell@*******.edu
http://www.engr.ucdavis.edu/~acgetche/
=================================================================

"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent."
-- Sun Tzu
Message no. 3
From: "Paolo (2) Falco" <Falco@****.it>
Subject: Re: Thor weapons ( was Killing in Shadowrun...)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 20:30:19 +0000
On 28 May 96, James R. Angove wrote:

> An observation regarding the entire thor thread. I have not
> read every single last post involved but I am seeing a general
> tendency to view thor as something it is not:

Uh, exactly, what is THOR and what does it stand for?

> Regarding big K-Kill weapons.

And while we're on topic, does K-Kill stand for Kinetic Kill?

> *this equation is a slight fib.

It is. You didn't consider the spinorbit interaction energy
split corrections (Laughs) Seriously: is this list made only of
people who ALWAYS know what they're talking about? :) If it is,
I'm still waiting aerodynamic figures for the WingArms!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------
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Ironbound Section * lose..."
(Near Avenue L) * Tom Waits: "New Coat Of Paint"
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HTTP://www.polito.it/~walter/RollerBrawl/rollerbrawl.html
The Above Web Page Contains Gory Graphics And Fun For Skaters!
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