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From:	"Dark Thought Publications." <JEK5313@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject:	Those damn reflexes agin.
Date:	Tue, 27 Oct 92 03:06:25 CET

Message no. 1 ]2) hey Flare, breath ok? Datatorch is technically correct. don't blame
]him for FASA's neat-idea-that-they-weren't-really-careful-with. i.e. the
]Active skills not being differentiated from the skills which default to
]Quickness. (i.e. "firearms, athletics, stealth, etc). i've wondered too
]whether or not my enhanced articulation would increase my sorcery skill
]rating (Technically it will, but since that doesn't necessarily make sense).
]so obviously there are two answers to Datatorch's question: 1) yes,
]according to the books it will. period. and 2) most ppl tend to assume (and
[want to play) that the bonus from reflex recorders and enhanced articulation
[only affects skills that default to Quickness. (with an occational "other"
[skill being affected when it makes sense - computers w/keyboard, sorcery
[w/gestures or quickening, etc.)

Wrongo, laddie. Datatorch is not only not technically correct, he is
not AT ALL correct. Look at the rules. They do not say ANYTHING about using
skills that default from Quickness. READ THE RULES!!!! According to the rules,
Datatorch's ideas are COMPLETELY unfounded. Maybe you guys need to get
together, pitch in, and buy a copy of the rules instead of going on hearsay.
And I'm not the only one who's going to tell you something like this. READ THE
DESCRIPTIONS!! Look at the nature of the skills that these things add to. Do
not just go madly power-gaming around and start looking at it to find loopholes.
Yes. They don't come out and say "No, you cannot get any benefit to sorcery
skill from any augmentation designed to help activity skills. NOT ACTIVE SKILLS
only. . Think. Think. Think.
[3) please respect others, if you feel the need to flame me, do it thru
[e-mail and don't carbon copy to the listserv.

I am flaming you publicly because
1) This is dealing with at least two people, and I do not have e-mail addresses
for the both of you.
2) This is what is called "reading the rules and seeing only the lettlers."
This
is a corruption of the ideas involved. This is the case of some peope trying to
squeeze every
squeeze out of the system every extra point they can manage to screw up. You,
sirs (and I use that term loosely) are power gamers of the most pernicious
variety, and I abhore that.

-Flare

From:	Robert Hayden <rahayden@*****.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Those damn reflexes agin.
Date:	Tue, 27 Oct 92 03:33:03 CET

Message no. 2 On Tue, 27 Oct 1992, Dark Thought Publications. wrote:

>
> I am flaming you publicly because
> 1) This is dealing with at least two people, and I do not have e-mail
addresses
> for the both of you.
> 2) This is what is called "reading the rules and seeing only the lettlers."
> This
> is a corruption of the ideas involved. This is the case of some peope trying
to
> squeeze every
> squeeze out of the system every extra point they can manage to screw up. You,
> sirs (and I use that term loosely) are power gamers of the most pernicious
> variety, and I abhore that.
>

They are probably not just power gamers, but x-ADND or CHAMPS munchkins
who were kicked out of their gamin group for being rules lawyers.

I detest that.

Ok, on these reflex thingies:

A reflex is an ability to do something quickly without thinking about it
(my own definition). If you put your hand on something hot, you will
snatch it away without thinking about it (ie, your mind doesn't go "hmm,
something feels warm. Gee, my hand is burning. What should I do? I
know, I'll move it.". Instead it goes <move> OH SHIT!!!!!!).

A reflex recorder allows you to "record" actions which normally require
you to think so that you perform they automatically.

As for using "computer" skill with these, I just can't see how. Much of
the computer use in SR is done with voice or via decking. Very little is
done sitting in front of a QWERTY keyboard and clacking away, and I can't
see how you could define a set of actions to react to via a reflex
recorder for computer use.

NOW, if your GM feels you can, then by all means do it. If you GM feels
you can't and you can't rationally explain to him how you could, then stop
your whining.

SR has some of the most twisted and incomprehensible rules I have ever
seen, and that is one of its strong points. It is a beautiful (in its own
special way) genre of role-playing with a technilogical bent that can be
easily shaped by every GM to fit his or her own needs.

We all have different perceptions of what roles tech and magic shoudl play
in the game. We all have different ideas about the balance between
reality and game balance. We all have different perceptions about the
society of SR. This is the strong suit of THIS list. We can all come
together and talk about it, argue about it, and mold the game around all
of us. But if we want to do that, we have to do it together. Realize
that everyone has different views and be tolerant. Name calling is not
becoming. Now yes, we are all guilty at times of acting before we think,
but the spirit of what we really meant is what binds us as a group and as
human beings.

*pause*

whoa, that was deep. The Zen of Shadowrun I guess.

Oh well, Let's all be friends, ok?

>> Robert Hayden | rahayden@*****.weeg.uiowa.edu | aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu <<
>>>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<<<
>> I'm currently writing a new opera: <<
>> It's called The Divorce of Figaro <<

From:	MKNABUSCH@******.BITNET
Subject:	Re: Those damn reflexes agin.
Date:	Tue, 27 Oct 92 01:29:00 EST

Message no. 3 Hey, Flare, you drek head. If you want to flare someone privately, use the
reply (or is it respond) command. Ease up and enjoy life, it happens to be
short enough as it is (unless you are an elf *BIG GRIN*). As to power
hungry, I happen to run the shadows with PROGERS and that he is not. He only
brings in the firepower necessary for a situation.
-Harlequin <Who wasn't here/Heh heh>
P.S. I REALLY HATE flames everybody, so cannot we act like mature adults.
Please no replies to this.

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