Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 08:10:32 -0700
Ok...After going through my limited sourcebook collection, I can't help
but think of ideas for new sourcebooks, either from FASA or as a
net.book:
DEFINITELY from FASA:
Knight Errant sourcebook:
OK, they DID Lone Star. That was a good book.
I personally want a book of the same basic type for Knight Errant, the
other major security organization in SR....In general, we hear a LOT
about KE, but only in bits and pieces, which personally gives me trouble
in using it. I'd LOVE to know more.

Target (or Neo-As guide to...): Middle East
<cue Ordinary>Land of God, land of oil....land of shadows and daggers
</Ordinary> This SB would cover the Middle East and North Africa: From
Algeria to Iran, Turkey to the edges of the Arabian Peninsula. Covering
Israel, the Palestinian areas, and I guess Iraq especially...Should
also, as a side note, cover what's happened to religion since 1999-2000.

Target:Europe: Covering the Old Country. They've done London and Germany
(though I'm told the latter was kinda twinked out). Now it would help if
they'd do the REST of the continent, so that we don't have to rely on
contradictory and sometimes plain WEIRD novels.

Also, offbeat idea:
Whatever DID happen to Antarctica?

John
Message no. 2
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 08:30:57 EDT
In a message dated 7/9/99 8:11:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cpenta@*****.com
writes:

> Ok...After going through my limited sourcebook collection, I can't help
> but think of ideas for new sourcebooks, either from FASA or as a
> net.book:
> DEFINITELY from FASA:
> Knight Errant sourcebook:
> OK, they DID Lone Star. That was a good book.
> I personally want a book of the same basic type for Knight Errant, the
> other major security organization in SR....In general, we hear a LOT
> about KE, but only in bits and pieces, which personally gives me trouble
> in using it. I'd LOVE to know more.
>
> Target (or Neo-As guide to...): Middle East
> <cue Ordinary>Land of God, land of oil....land of shadows and daggers
> </Ordinary> This SB would cover the Middle East and North Africa: From
> Algeria to Iran, Turkey to the edges of the Arabian Peninsula. Covering
> Israel, the Palestinian areas, and I guess Iraq especially...Should
> also, as a side note, cover what's happened to religion since 1999-2000.
>
> Target:Europe: Covering the Old Country. They've done London and Germany
> (though I'm told the latter was kinda twinked out). Now it would help if
> they'd do the REST of the continent, so that we don't have to rely on
> contradictory and sometimes plain WEIRD novels.
>
> Also, offbeat idea:
> Whatever DID happen to Antarctica?
>
> John


The Lone Star book was one of FASA's worst selling SR books, so I think a KE
book is unlikely, but you can piece together info on them from adventures
where they are featured (like Queen Euphoria) and mentions in other books
like Corp DL.

I'd love to see any new SR book under the Neo-Anarchists header, but that's
just me.

Place books by themselves seem to have flatlined in SR. Now they all need
hooks like Smuggler's Havens or Cyberpirates, where the places showcase new
shadowrunning opportunities. Good or bad? <shrug> I loved Aztlan and felt
bored by CalFree, so I'm not sure how much I'll miss straight-forward place
books. If all the further place books were like NAGNA, I'd die a happy gamer.






-Twist
Message no. 3
From: Steadfast laughingman@*******.de
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 14:57:06 +0200
And so it came to happen that Penta wrote:
>
> Ok...After going through my limited sourcebook collection, I can't help
> but think of ideas for new sourcebooks, either from FASA or as a
> net.book:
> DEFINITELY from FASA:
> Knight Errant sourcebook:
> OK, they DID Lone Star. That was a good book.
> I personally want a book of the same basic type for Knight Errant, the
> other major security organization in SR....In general, we hear a LOT
> about KE, but only in bits and pieces, which personally gives me trouble
> in using it. I'd LOVE to know more.

Well, yes that would be nice, but than why? For the Procedures they
normaly have? Which Countermeasures they have, who is the
boarddirector? New Toys for everyone? I would be more happy if FASA
would invest their ressources to do a book about not KE nor
Corpsecurity but to Companies that provide Corporate Security in
General. With that move they could everyone some ideas, how different
they are, how they opperate in Comparison to one another, why is a
small security provider better in some fields than, for example KE?
As I see it, most Sorcebooks that are to come are either recaps of old
material, redone for the third with updated timeline and a few new
goodies or they are more on generall information, nothing to specific,
but enough to like it.

> Target (or Neo-As guide to...): Middle East
> <cue Ordinary>Land of God, land of oil....land of shadows and daggers
> </Ordinary> This SB would cover the Middle East and North Africa: From
> Algeria to Iran, Turkey to the edges of the Arabian Peninsula. Covering
> Israel, the Palestinian areas, and I guess Iraq especially...Should
> also, as a side note, cover what's happened to religion since 1999-2000.
>
> Target:Europe: Covering the Old Country. They've done London and Germany
> (though I'm told the latter was kinda twinked out).

Yes, FASA took out the whole part that covered the Weapons and
Equipement. the original material was provided by FanPro the german
license owner. So it would sure be twinked out, I'll guess everytime
you write something about your country, it needs to be special and
needs to have everything so you do not have to look for other material
published.

> Now it would help if they'd do the REST of the continent, so that we don't
> have to rely on contradictory and sometimes plain WEIRD novels.

All this would be fine, yes, but than you could shout that every
continent needs that. And after the Continent than please, please
some, only some of the more interesting details of the one or the
other country. What to expect, what to do and so on, and so on.
But as Bull has pointed out in another Thread, the SR universe is one
that is alive, every year something new happens that shakes the world
(otherwise it would be a bit boring, wouldn't it?), 97 Big D 98
Underworld and Corp War, 99 Renraku as the main theme. As doing a
continent wide sourcebook would take quite some time it would take up
resources for the main Storyline and, right now for the redo of the SR
core Game materials that we all scream for. Other than that, although
I am not involved in the making process, I would guess that the
planning for different projects are something around 1 to 2 years, if
FASA has nothing in make right now regarding that, expect it to take a
long time even if they think it can be done, right now.
And another thing, most of the published material in the last years
was mainly some general info on a real big scale, for example
Cyberpirates covered a great deal of Africa and the Caribean league.
But if you look closer most things are real generall with lots to do
for the GM. And I personally like that. But your and many others views
may vary. So I think that the Concepts of the Future will be some
short Sourcebooks under one theme, even the Sourcebook T:UCAS revealed
nothing about the UCAS but was in generall a compilation of 3
Campaigns. It was no new NAGNA, not in the least, although I hoped
that for. Annyway, we'll see

But annyhow, something I would realy like to see would be a sourcebook
that Incorporates everything the Draco foundation and
Dunkelzahninstitute of Magical Research is doing. As I see it, they
are a main player and the Corporate Download didn't reveal a thing.
But than, they are no official Corp, so we'll see.

> Also, offbeat idea:
> Whatever DID happen to Antarctica?

Must have missed something, is the world spinning without one of their
polar caps in SR?
;o)
--

---> Steadfast
The one, the only.
That is, if you do not count the others.
Message no. 4
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:23:08 +0200
According to Penta, at 8:10 on 9 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> Ok...After going through my limited sourcebook collection, I can't help
> but think of ideas for new sourcebooks, either from FASA or as a
> net.book:
> DEFINITELY from FASA:
> Knight Errant sourcebook:
> OK, they DID Lone Star. That was a good book.

Agreed. Twister claims it didn't sell well, but to be honest I find that
surprising -- it has absolutely everything you'd care to know about Lone
Star, and as such is a very good source for the GM. (Or perhaps that was
part of the problem: only GMs bought it.)

> I personally want a book of the same basic type for Knight Errant, the
> other major security organization in SR....In general, we hear a LOT
> about KE, but only in bits and pieces, which personally gives me trouble
> in using it. I'd LOVE to know more.

The Corporate Security Handbook is essentially a KE brochure about what
kind of service they provide. That should give you ideas on how KE works,
too.

> Target (or Neo-As guide to...): Middle East
> <cue Ordinary>Land of God, land of oil....land of shadows and daggers
> </Ordinary> This SB would cover the Middle East and North Africa: From
> Algeria to Iran, Turkey to the edges of the Arabian Peninsula. Covering
> Israel, the Palestinian areas, and I guess Iraq especially...Should
> also, as a side note, cover what's happened to religion since 1999-2000.

Nice, but I doubt there's a real market for it.

> Target:Europe: Covering the Old Country. They've done London and Germany
> (though I'm told the latter was kinda twinked out). Now it would help if
> they'd do the REST of the continent, so that we don't have to rely on
> contradictory and sometimes plain WEIRD novels.

IIRC, FASA are considering such a book, based on the various books
published by the European companies that translated SR into languages like
German, French, Hungarian, etc. I would see this as a more viable book
than a Target: Middle East one, but still not one I honestly expect to
come out. Not unless it's drastically better than the London and Germany
Sourcebooks, anyway.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
E-mails uit het verleden bieden geen garantie voor de toekomst.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:45:44 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Penta."
] Ok...After going through my limited sourcebook collection, I can't help
] but think of ideas for new sourcebooks, either from FASA or as a
] net.book:
] DEFINITELY from FASA:
] Knight Errant sourcebook:
] OK, they DID Lone Star. That was a good book.
] I personally want a book of the same basic type for Knight Errant, the
] other major security organization in SR....In general, we hear a LOT
] about KE, but only in bits and pieces, which personally gives me trouble
] in using it. I'd LOVE to know more.

Hmmm....how 'bout a special forces book? KE, the Red Samurai,
etc...you'd also have to chuck in more than that to make it worth
buying (although, slave that I am, I'd buy it if they published a book
of 9,000 Contacts...).

] Target (or Neo-As guide to...): Middle East
] <cue Ordinary>Land of God, land of oil....land of shadows and daggers
] </Ordinary> This SB would cover the Middle East and North Africa: From
] Algeria to Iran, Turkey to the edges of the Arabian Peninsula. Covering
] Israel, the Palestinian areas, and I guess Iraq especially...Should
] also, as a side note, cover what's happened to religion since 1999-2000.

YES! And Japan, dammit!

] Target:Europe: Covering the Old Country. They've done London and Germany
] (though I'm told the latter was kinda twinked out). Now it would help if
] they'd do the REST of the continent, so that we don't have to rely on
] contradictory and sometimes plain WEIRD novels.

Sure, I'd buy it. Although Europe is different enough right now that
a sourcebook couldn't hope to properly convey most of the cultural
differences. Big project, that would be.

] Also, offbeat idea:
] Whatever DID happen to Antarctica?

Haven for secret labs, I'd think. Shadowrunner's dream, but still
very cold. Rocky, icy. White.
Message no. 6
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:11:28 -0700
Scott Wheelock wrote:

> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Penta."
> ] Ok...After going through my limited sourcebook collection, I can't help
> ] but think of ideas for new sourcebooks, either from FASA or as a
> ] net.book:
> ] DEFINITELY from FASA:
> ] Knight Errant sourcebook:
> ] OK, they DID Lone Star. That was a good book.
> ] I personally want a book of the same basic type for Knight Errant, the
> ] other major security organization in SR....In general, we hear a LOT
> ] about KE, but only in bits and pieces, which personally gives me trouble
> ] in using it. I'd LOVE to know more.
>
> Hmmm....how 'bout a special forces book? KE, the Red Samurai,
> etc...you'd also have to chuck in more than that to make it worth
> buying (although, slave that I am, I'd buy it if they published a book
> of 9,000 Contacts...).

OK...KE ain't a special forces type.....it's like Lone Star, so...no. Though,
I REALLY would like a book (prolly better as net.book) covering KE. Even a
net.book would work....just, SOMETHING. Though, a FASA book would be even
better...:>

John
Message no. 7
From: arcady@***.net arcady@***.net
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 99 10:32:04 +700
Target: Earth

Just a brief 1 to 2 paragraph description of every region on earth. Some areas
might be 'clumpable' like grouping Saipan, Guam, and Somoa or whatever...
Places like Tasmania could likely be grouped into nearby larger features like
Australia. Unless they have something special going on.

But this is WAY OVERDUE.

Every other near future earth game out there comes with a brief paragraph describing
the state of the major continents...

Maybe more busy reqions could get a page or two. Like Amazonia.

Target the book at a decent page count and a decent price and I'd bet it'd be
one of their top sellers.
Message no. 8
From: 00DNA mcmanus@******.albany.edu
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 13:51:40 -0400
At 10:32 AM 7/9/99 +0700, arcady@***.net wrote:
>Target: Earth
>
>Just a brief 1 to 2 paragraph description of every region on earth. Some
areas
>might be 'clumpable' like grouping Saipan, Guam, and Somoa or whatever...
>Places like Tasmania could likely be grouped into nearby larger features like
>Australia. Unless they have something special going on.
>
>But this is WAY OVERDUE.

Nah. Way too general. Besides, they're not going to go from looking at
areas around the world to a very brief mention of the whole world in one book.

If you're looking for a source that does that, check out this site:


http://www.flashpt.com/lward/sixthworld/acrobat.html

I just came across it a few days ago...I think it's great.

--00DNA
"...user connection terminated."
Message no. 9
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:55:21 -0600
At 10:32 7/9/99 +0700, arcady@***.net wrote:
>Target: Earth
>
>Just a brief 1 to 2 paragraph description of every region on earth. Some
areas
>might be 'clumpable' like grouping Saipan, Guam, and Somoa or whatever...
>Places like Tasmania could likely be grouped into nearby larger features like
>Australia. Unless they have something special going on.

The problem with this is it seriously limits what they can do in the
future. It requires them to flesh out parts of the world that have only
been briefly - or not at all - covered yet, and then if they have a great
idea in the future, everything needs to stick with what's been written in
Target: Earth.

Aside from the problems it creates on FASAs send, I don't see much use for
this product. A page or two doesn't provide anything for an unused location
that I can't provide for my own game myself. I'd rather FASA covered less
locations in more detail - make it useful enough to use, rather than just a
"Oh this sounds cool, now let me write 30 pages about it to make it usable
in my game" book.

Adam
--
< adamj@*********.html.com / http://shadowrun.html.com/tss >
< ICQ# 2350330 / ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / Shadowrun Creative Resources >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
Message no. 10
From: Lehlan Decker DeckerL@******.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 14:11:27 -0400
<SNIP Adam's comments, Target Earth>
I have to go along with Adam. There are alot of places I would like to see
expanded on in Shadowrun. (This goes back to the Target Awakened
Lands idea that was kicked around ages ago). But having everything
defined would box you in, both at FASA and as a GM.
If you want to run in a different place, that FASA hasn't mentioned,
create it. Do a bit of research. That is half the fun.
Besides as a GM, I tend to ignore or modify parts of sourcebooks
anyway. Otherwise any player who buys the book, might know the
story. :)
I'm still torqued that we have to wait as long for M&M, which to me is a
core book, but the speed and direction that FASA is explaining the planet
works ok by me.
Mental Note: There are tons of web sites that expand out the locations,
written by the people who live there, which is usually nice then fasa's
freelances butchering the history of some locations. :)
Message no. 11
From: arcady@***.net arcady@***.net
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 99 13:52:52 +700
><SNIP Adam's comments, Target Earth>
>I have to go along with Adam. There are alot of places I would like to see

>expanded on in Shadowrun. (This goes back to the Target Awakened
>Lands idea that was kicked around ages ago). But having everything
>defined would box you in, both at FASA and as a GM.


But we're even more boxed in now. We can't even mention 70% of the globe in
a media article without risking going way off track of the future of the Shadowrun
universe.

A simple brief explaination of what's out there goes miles in helping us plot
things or fill in character backgrounds and does very little to limit future
products.

Statements like does Mongolia exist or has it been absorbed into something.
Are there elves in South Africa? What's the government of Afganistan? Where
do Amazonia's borders extend to?

Look at the brief backstorys in games like Cyberpunk 2020 or Cyberspace for
an example. Not to much detail. Enough to let a GM know what countries are out
there and if the PCs could go/come from there reasonably. But not so much as
to box in future options.

Right now the Shadowrun world is severely limited in it's scope.
Message no. 12
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 23:15:48 +1000
At 10:32 9/07/99 +700 arcady@***.net wrote
>Target: Earth
>
>Places like Tasmania could likely be grouped into nearby larger features like
>Australia. Unless they have something special going on.
>

Um, geography lesson here people.

Tasmania _is_ a state of Australia.
As for having something special going
on, I suppose if you discount mass murders,
draconian legislators and general inbreeding
I suppose there's not much going on. :)
__________________________________
Manx // timburke@*******.com.au // #950
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt
and then it's just hilarious." - Faith No More
__________________________________
Message no. 13
From: Bob Tockley arkham@*******.com.au
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 23:25:04 +1000
>Tasmania _is_ a state of Australia.
>As for having something special going
>on, I suppose if you discount mass murders,
>draconian legislators and general inbreeding
>I suppose there's not much going on. :)

Inbreeding? But isn't sex with your siblings normal? \=)

(>) ARKHAM
"Tji na; Hanti va'mel hal'hera sep'ha."
Message no. 14
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:31:51 -0500
> ><SNIP Adam's comments, Target Earth>
> >I have to go along with Adam. There are alot of places I would
> >like to see expanded on in Shadowrun. (This goes back to the
> >Target Awakened Lands idea that was kicked around ages ago). But
> >having everything defined would box you in, both at FASA and as a GM.
>
> But we're even more boxed in now.

Well, no, we're not. Things are wide open; that's sort of what not having
solid definitions means.

> We can't even mention 70% of the globe in
> a media article without risking going way off track of the future
> of the Shadowrun universe.

Them's the breaks. It's a risk anyone writing in an established universe
has to take; handcuffing FASA by establishing all of the world isn't going
to help them any, and it's their universe.

> A simple brief explaination of what's out there goes miles in helping
> us plot things or fill in character backgrounds and does very little to
> limit future products.

And it locks them into a single idea that might not be such a good one later
down the line. I am absolutely against something like this.

> Right now the Shadowrun world is severely limited in it's scope.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

That has got to be the silliest, most non-sensical thing I've ever heard.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 15
From: Jarmo Karonen jarmo.karonen@***.fi
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:12:25 +0300
>Target:Europe: Covering the Old Country. They've done London and
Germany
>(though I'm told the latter was kinda twinked out). Now it would help
if
>they'd do the REST of the continent, so that we don't have to rely on
>contradictory and sometimes plain WEIRD novels.

I would love to see Target: Scandinavia (or actually "the Nordic
countries", but maybe that wouldn't look too good on a cover ;).
Actually, I would love to write one... :) Lapland could be one nation
like Native American Nations in
North America, Helsinki would be striving metroplex, there would be
enough interesting locales for cyberpirates and of course on Iceland
there's a lot of volcanic activity (pointing at Mob War -dragon interest
thingy...) and so on. Cold air and water, icy mounting tops and fiords
added with nordic mythology would create a great atmosphere.

Wether a sourcebook like this would sell well or not, I don't know, but
I doubt it though...

- J. Karonen
Message no. 16
From: MC23 mc23@**********.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:33:36 -0400
Once upon a time, Jarmo Karonen wrote;

>Wether a sourcebook like this would sell well or not, I don't know, but
>I doubt it though...

I would like to see a Shadowrun Almanac with a new one published
yearly. The world at a glance could be useful. Making such a book truly
marketable is the challenge. Maybe if FASA could make their own online
zine like SJG's Pyramid then there would be an even better place for such
material. Hmmm, the best of that material could be published as the
Almanacs. I like that idea. Hmmm.....

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 17
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:31:42 EDT
In a message dated 7/10/99 1:35:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mc23@**********.com writes:

> I would like to see a Shadowrun Almanac with a new one published
> yearly. The world at a glance could be useful. Making such a book truly
> marketable is the challenge. Maybe if FASA could make their own online
> zine like SJG's Pyramid then there would be an even better place for such
> material. Hmmm, the best of that material could be published as the
> Almanacs. I like that idea. Hmmm.....

I'd like to see a gear book published annually, with new weapons and toys for
all of the character classes in SR (magicians, riggers, deckers, samurai).
Model it off the Ares catalog or some such thing, and have it packaged up as
such. Like the first one could be Ares Winter Security Catalog 2061, the
next Ares Fall Security Catalog 2061, and such.
The magician's sections could be in-line with security combat magicians, as
an excuse for a gun-catalog to offer spells and foci and varies enchantments.
Or maybe it could be a catalog from a general distributor of all goods?
Would anyone else like to see this?


-Twist
Message no. 18
From: Michael & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@*****.msn.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 20:01:52 -0400
Twist said:
>I'd like to see a gear book published annually, with new weapons and toys
for
>all of the character classes in SR (magicians, riggers, deckers, samurai).
>Model it off the Ares catalog or some such thing, and have it packaged up
as
>such. Like the first one could be Ares Winter Security Catalog 2061, the
>next Ares Fall Security Catalog 2061, and such.
>The magician's sections could be in-line with security combat magicians, as
>an excuse for a gun-catalog to offer spells and foci and varies
enchantments.
> Or maybe it could be a catalog from a general distributor of all goods?
> Would anyone else like to see this?


I would. It may seem kinda superficial and a lot of people think that GM's
can just make up whatever they need, but I think that it would make the job
of GM'ing simpler. It would allow for more gear variety within the existing
type ("What, another Savalette Guardian?").

;)

Mike, aka Smilin' Jack
Message no. 19
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:07:57 EDT
In a message dated 7/10/1999 6:32:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Twist0059@***.com writes:

> I'd like to see a gear book published annually, with new weapons and toys
for
> all of the character classes in SR (magicians, riggers, deckers, samurai).

> Model it off the Ares catalog or some such thing, and have it packaged up
as
> such. Like the first one could be Ares Winter Security Catalog 2061, the
> next Ares Fall Security Catalog 2061, and such.
> The magician's sections could be in-line with security combat magicians,
as
> an excuse for a gun-catalog to offer spells and foci and varies
enchantments.
> Or maybe it could be a catalog from a general distributor of all goods?
> Would anyone else like to see this?

Actually, I have heard stories that something similar to *this* line of
thought is under consideration at FASA. I guess we'll all have to wait and
see ultimately.

-K
Message no. 20
From: Lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:00:57 -0700 (PDT)
<snip>
> > But we're even more boxed in now.

I disagree here, all that has happened is we are free to decide our own
course. No one ever said you have to follow the published material
exaclty. I hada campaign that had the universal bortherhood/bug stuff go
in a different direct. The runners accidentaly exposed the whole deal
with them and started a major scuffle in Seattle, it made things very
interesting for some time in that game.


>SNIP >
> > We can't even mention 70% of the globe in
> > a media article without risking going way off track of the future
> > of the Shadowrun universe.

So, as i said above who said you have to follow their track? That's the
beauty of an RPG you can make your own world.

<SNIP>
> > Right now the Shadowrun world is severely limited in it's scope.

That's funny, i don;t see how it's limited. The only thing limiting it is
the imagination of it's players and gm's.

The first game I ran i started a whole immortal elf campaign thing(this is
SR-1) and they ended up going that route. Which to me shows that
sometimes you can end up in the same place by different routes or ideas.
I always use the FASA stuff as a springboard, or a general movement, the
incidentals though are easy to change or create without affecting their
stuff, then again you can say screw em and use your own stuff exclusively.

--Lomion
Message no. 21
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:23:36 EDT
In a message dated 7/10/99 9:11:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com writes:

> > > We can't even mention 70% of the globe in
> > > a media article without risking going way off track of the future
> > > of the Shadowrun universe.
>
> So, as i said above who said you have to follow their track? That's the
> beauty of an RPG you can make your own world.


while I agree with everyone that has said FASA does not (or should not)
describe all the places (though, they really need to hit a few major ones :-)
I do have to mention something here. It is nice to say "you can just ignore
it" when such inconsistancies come up, but the point is that we all buy FASA
products to further our campaigns.
While any product needs to be tweaked, it would also be nice if GMs could
get an idea of what is going on so tehy can plan around that eventuality.
While I liked the Big D's death, imagine how much this could have affected
campaigns?
Message no. 22
From: Graht Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:37:06 -0500
Twist0059@***.com wrote:

/I'd like to see a gear book published annually, with new weapons and toys for
/all of the character classes in SR (magicians, riggers, deckers, samurai).
/Model it off the Ares catalog or some such thing, and have it packaged up as
/such. Like the first one could be Ares Winter Security Catalog 2061, the
/next Ares Fall Security Catalog 2061, and such.
/The magician's sections could be in-line with security combat magicians, as
/an excuse for a gun-catalog to offer spells and foci and varies enchantments.
/ Or maybe it could be a catalog from a general distributor of all goods?
/ Would anyone else like to see this?

I'd have to say no. IMO this would turn Shadowrun into a "who's got the
most toys" game like AD&D or Battletech. Not that I don't like those two
games :) (I love em). But I like Shadowrun as it is, in terms of the
amount of equipment available. On the other hand FASA could probably make
a lot of money with this idea.... <shrug>.

-Graht
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3
Geek Code: GCS d-( ) s++:->+ a@ C++>$ US P L >++ E? W++>+++ !N o-- K-
w+ o? M- VMS? PS+(++) PE+(++) Y+ !PGP t+(++) 5+(++) X++(+++) R+>$ tv+b++ DI++++
D+(++) G e+>+++ h--->---- r+++ y+++
http://home.att.net/~Graht
"I don't know what I don't know."
Message no. 23
From: Hamish Laws h_laws@**********.utas.edu.au
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 13:54:52 +1000
At 11:15 PM 7/10/99 +1000, Manx wrote:
>At 10:32 9/07/99 +700 arcady@***.net wrote
>>Target: Earth
>>
>>Places like Tasmania could likely be grouped into nearby larger features
like
>>Australia. Unless they have something special going on.
>>
>
>Um, geography lesson here people.
>
>Tasmania _is_ a state of Australia.

Only til the revolution! <g>

With a much different ecology to most of Australia.

>As for having something special going
>on, I suppose if you discount mass murders,
>draconian legislators and general inbreeding
>I suppose there's not much going on. :)

We don't have Kennett for a start <g>

Seriously it strikes me that there could easily be enough differences
between Australia and Tasmania for a bit of coverage. Some differences in
paranimls. Probably no manna storms as there isn't an outback here, stuff
like that.

****************************************************************************
The Politician's Slogan
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
****************************************************************************

Mad Hamish

Hamish Laws
h_laws@**********.utas.edu.au
h_laws@******.net.au
Message no. 24
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:59:30 -0600
At 21:37 7/10/99 -0500, Graht wrote:

>I'd have to say no. IMO this would turn Shadowrun into a "who's got the
>most toys" game like AD&D or Battletech. Not that I don't like those two
>games :) (I love em). But I like Shadowrun as it is, in terms of the
>amount of equipment available. On the other hand FASA could probably make
>a lot of money with this idea.... <shrug>.

I'll say yes. But I want cool shit. I want stuff that's fun, original, and
usable. I want expansions on game concepts that haven't been well
explained, I want stuff that isn't "better" than the stuff in the previous
book, just different. I don't want a book with one thing on each page, and
a big pictures that could just as easily been a quarter of that size.

Oh, and I certainly don't want something as ugly as Shadowtech. <g>

Adam
Mmm.. 4 pages of tents. Sounds good.
--
< adamj@*********.html.com / http://shadowrun.html.com/tss >
< ICQ# 2350330 / ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / Shadowrun Creative Resources >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
Message no. 25
From: Sommers sommers@*****.umich.edu
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:06:10 -0400
At 10:37 PM 7/10/99 , Graht wrote:
>Twist0059@***.com wrote:
>
>/I'd like to see a gear book published annually, with new weapons and toys
>for
>/all of the character classes in SR (magicians, riggers, deckers, samurai).
>/Model it off the Ares catalog or some such thing, and have it packaged up as
>/such. Like the first one could be Ares Winter Security Catalog 2061, the
>/next Ares Fall Security Catalog 2061, and such.
>/The magician's sections could be in-line with security combat magicians, as
>/an excuse for a gun-catalog to offer spells and foci and varies
>enchantments.
>/ Or maybe it could be a catalog from a general distributor of all goods?
>/ Would anyone else like to see this?
>
>I'd have to say no. IMO this would turn Shadowrun into a "who's got the
>most toys" game like AD&D or Battletech. Not that I don't like those two
>games :) (I love em). But I like Shadowrun as it is, in terms of the
>amount of equipment available. On the other hand FASA could probably make
>a lot of money with this idea.... <shrug>.

Quite a few times I've read that one of the central themes to Shadowrun is
the rapid pace of technology. Every year electronics shrink 10% as does the
price. New breakthroughs in cyber and biotech are coming out all the time.
Magic over the last 50 years (game time) has changed considerably.

I would think after all of this a book that came out once a year that
updated these things would be a natural. Right now how often do new
computer models come out as opposed to how many new cyberdecks are
introduced. I for one would love a new book that came out every year that
would give us a little glimpse like that.

Sommers
Insert witty quote here.
Message no. 26
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 11:13:56 +0200
According to Adam J, at 21:59 on 10 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> I'll say yes. But I want cool shit. I want stuff that's fun, original, and
> usable. I want expansions on game concepts that haven't been well
> explained, I want stuff that isn't "better" than the stuff in the previous
> book, just different. I don't want a book with one thing on each page, and
> a big pictures that could just as easily been a quarter of that size.

In other words, you want Chromebooks for Shadowrun?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
E-mails uit het verleden bieden geen garantie voor de toekomst.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 27
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 06:42:03 EDT
> > > > We can't even mention 70% of the globe in
> > > > a media article without risking going way off track of the future
> > > > of the Shadowrun universe.
> >
> > So, as i said above who said you have to follow their track? That's the
> > beauty of an RPG you can make your own world.
>
>
> while I agree with everyone that has said FASA does not (or should not)
> describe all the places (though, they really need to hit a few major ones
:-)
>
> I do have to mention something here. It is nice to say "you can just
ignore
> it" when such inconsistancies come up, but the point is that we all buy
FASA
>
> products to further our campaigns.
> While any product needs to be tweaked, it would also be nice if GMs
could
> get an idea of what is going on so tehy can plan around that eventuality.
> While I liked the Big D's death, imagine how much this could have affected
> campaigns?


The real problem with FASA's direction of Shadowrun (I think)
actually only came with the Dunkelzahn plotline, which ironically also
provided the momentum which has transformed SR from an RPG which felt stuck
in neutral to one which now cruises along. Before the election (and the
accursed DHS) the SR books offered GMs all the freedom in the world, but
aside from the Universal Brotherhood/IE thread nothing much happened with
continuity. There was no ongoing storyline. Then the election came along
(with Mulvihill driving it, even if I must cop that Koke kicked the universe
forward with his idea, even if his novels were terrible, and Ryan Mercury
worse) and suddenly Shadowrun had a storyline which developed from sourcebook
to sourcebook, a trend which continues to this day, and a damn invigorating
one.
But there's the problem. This kind of developing storyline forces
player characters to take backseat roles to the action. The truly monumental
stories happen in the sourcebooks or the novels, and answers to the big
mysteries or rumors are now answered with disappointing utterness. The
reason Dunk died, the truth of Thomas Roxborough's situation, whether Damien
Knight was really part of EM, what really caused the Crash of '29, what is
Deep Resonance, and even most of the so-called "rumors" in Threats have been
revealed (there was a great one; GMs were told it was up to them to decide
the truth of each entry, but not one single entry remains which novels or
sourcebooks haven't revealed, and two of them were never in doubt in the
first place!). All of these elements were put in SR to give GMs and the
players through them exciting options, and now they're being taken by
sourcebook and (especially) novel writers and the GMs are being left with the
answers they provide or forcing their players out of the direct action.
Now, to me, the way this all should be handled should be like Bug
City. There a situation was set up with a cool sourcebook and a novel, and
then FASA stepped out of the way to let players and GMs run wild. This seems
like the perfect way to handle the storyline momentum FASA is currently
putting out. Give us a situation in the gamebooks or the novels and then
don't meddle with it.
None of this is a bash at FASA's recent stuff (the game has been
cleaned up considerably and looks to have a bright future) but instead a grip
towards the way GMs and players are getting left out of the coolest new
stuff.



-Twist
(Okay, okay, I do bash the way FASA killed the Neo-Anarchists.
"Retro"-Anarchists? Erugh.)
Message no. 28
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 06:45:21 EDT
In a message dated 7/11/99 5:14:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gurth@******.nl
writes:

> In other words, you want Chromebooks for Shadowrun?


Chromebooks? GURPS?


-Twist
Message no. 29
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 07:03:38 EDT
In a message dated 7/11/99 5:14:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gurth@******.nl
writes:

>
> > I'll say yes. But I want cool shit. I want stuff that's fun, original,
and
>
> > usable. I want expansions on game concepts that haven't been well
> > explained, I want stuff that isn't "better" than the stuff in the
previous
>
> > book, just different. I don't want a book with one thing on each page,
and
>
> > a big pictures that could just as easily been a quarter of that size.
>
> In other words, you want Chromebooks for Shadowrun?


WOW! Just checked this out, and it is beautiful!! Great job Gurth!!!!!!!!!




-Twist
Message no. 30
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:52:44 +1000
At 13:54 11/07/99 +1000 Hamish Laws wrote
>We don't have Kennett for a start <g>

You mean El Presidente Kennet. That guy
is my ideal model for a Megacorp CEO.
(he runs the state like a megacorp) Everyone
hates him anyway.

>Seriously it strikes me that there could easily be enough differences
>between Australia and Tasmania for a bit of coverage. Some differences in
>paranimls. Probably no manna storms as there isn't an outback here, stuff
>like that.

Hamish before we start jumping into Tasmania
I'd like to see Australia looked at. After all I remember
reading about an Australia sourcebook being due
for release as far back as 1993. There has been
much "rumour" about what happened to that.
It's my understanding that it wasn't up to scratch
and that FASA is legally obligated to keep the option
on it for something like seven years or some such
crap.

On a side note I'd like to personally thank the
RNer's that have in their own little sections
of Corporate Download acknowledged Australia.
I especially like that Renraku has a large
facility here in Brisbane. My mates and I have
already started trying to work out where it would
be. It's a small mention but it feels good to know
that the world knows we are here.

I'd also like to thank Steve Kenson for the
section on Aboriginal Magic in MiTS.
The only funny thing though is the MiTS entry
that lists Badger as an Australian Aborigine
totem. All the others were fine, they were at
least animals that can be found on the continent :)
Oh well thanks Steve for at least putting it in
and acknowledging it. (I think that Emu, Platypus,
Gecko, Goanna & Kangaroo would personally
have worked better) All in all thanks to everyone
that has listed the largest island in the world
in their writings.

>Mad Hamish
>
>Hamish Laws
>h_laws@**********.utas.edu.au
>h_laws@******.net.au

Hmmm now why is Hamish mad?
<insert Tasmanian joke here>
But what the hell do I know. I'm a New South
Wales immigrant living behind enemy lines
in Queensland.

Manx
timburke@*******.com.au
___________________________________________________
"I hate the constant demands for autographs and
not being left alone which happens all the time
in Italy, On the other hand I love the fact that
I can walk into restaurants and get the table I
want, I love walking into night-clubs and not
having to pay and I love pulling the most beautiful
girls because of the job I do."
- Eddie Irvine, Ferrari Formula One Driver 10/7/99
___________________________________________________
Message no. 31
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:07:42 -0700
Twist0059@***.com wrote:
The

> reason Dunk died, the truth of Thomas Roxborough's situation, whether Damien
> Knight was really part of EM, what really caused the Crash of '29, what is
> Deep Resonance, and even most of the so-called "rumors" in Threats have
been
> revealed (there was a great one; GMs were told it was up to them to decide
> the truth of each entry, but not one single entry remains which novels or
> sourcebooks haven't revealed, and two of them were never in doubt in the
> first place!). All of these elements were put in SR to give GMs and the
> players through them exciting options, and now they're being taken by
> sourcebook and (especially) novel writers and the GMs are being left with the
> answers they provide or forcing their players out of the direct action.

OK...I for one can't keep up with the novels, as NOBODY around here *dares* to
carry them (why, I dunno. Can't even get em on Special Order:()...where was:
DK-EM, what caused the crash, and what the deep resonance is featured?????

John
Message no. 32
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 11:57:03 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Manx."

<snip>
] Oh well thanks Steve for at least putting it in
] and acknowledging it. (I think that Emu, Platypus,
] Gecko, Goanna & Kangaroo would personally
] have worked better)
<snip>

What's a goanna?

-Murder of One
Message no. 33
From: Michael & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@*****.msn.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 11:34:05 -0400
Sommers said:
>Quite a few times I've read that one of the central themes to Shadowrun is
>the rapid pace of technology. Every year electronics shrink 10% as does the
>price. New breakthroughs in cyber and biotech are coming out all the time.
>Magic over the last 50 years (game time) has changed considerably.
>
>I would think after all of this a book that came out once a year that
>updated these things would be a natural. Right now how often do new
>computer models come out as opposed to how many new cyberdecks are
>introduced. I for one would love a new book that came out every year that
>would give us a little glimpse like that.

Think of the SOTA angle too. This would provide GM's with some hard gear to
have players strive for to keep up with the competition. This would help
take away the nebulous SOTA cost that the players see no real advantage for
other than being a cash black hole that they pay, but nothing really changes
on the character sheet.

;)

Mike, aka Smilin' Jack
Message no. 34
From: Michael & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@*****.msn.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:05:14 -0400
Gurth said:
>In other words, you want Chromebooks for Shadowrun?


Are those netbooks on the Plastic Warriors site?

Mike, aka Smilin' Jack
Message no. 35
From: Michael & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@*****.msn.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:16:55 -0400
Twist spouted:
> The real problem with FASA's direction of Shadowrun (I think)
>actually only came with the Dunkelzahn plotline, which ironically also
>provided the momentum which has transformed SR from an RPG which felt stuck
>in neutral to one which now cruises along. Before the election (and the
>accursed DHS) the SR books offered GMs all the freedom in the world, but
>aside from the Universal Brotherhood/IE thread nothing much happened with
>continuity. There was no ongoing storyline. Then the election came along
>(with Mulvihill driving it, even if I must cop that Koke kicked the
universe
>forward with his idea, even if his novels were terrible, and Ryan Mercury
>worse) and suddenly Shadowrun had a storyline which developed from
sourcebook
>to sourcebook, a trend which continues to this day, and a damn invigorating
>one.
> But there's the problem. This kind of developing storyline forces
>player characters to take backseat roles to the action. The truly
monumental
>stories happen in the sourcebooks or the novels, and answers to the big
>mysteries or rumors are now answered with disappointing utterness.

Actually I think this is where the concept of divergence should kick in. I
used the 3 Dragonheart novels as an adventure sourcebook and ran my players
through the whole saga (rare for me to use anything pre-packaged from
adventures, but it was a big enough event to give my players a piece of in
their campaign). Don't eliminate the big players, just add your players to
the mix. My guys went up against Burn-out, helped Ryan Mercury and liberated
the Dragonheart as well as followed the story to the conclusion.

The story in their campaign happened slightly different from the novels;
they were in it. Just because a novel happens doesn't mean you can't create
your tailored version of it for the players to game through.

;)

Mike, aka Smilin' Jack
Message no. 36
From: MC23 mc23@**********.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:31:26 -0400
Once upon a time, Michael & Linda Frankl wrote;

>Gurth said:
>>In other words, you want Chromebooks for Shadowrun?
>
>Are those netbooks on the Plastic Warriors site?

Well, the adaptions of the Cyberpunk 2020 books are. I will admit my
favorite section from all 4 books was the fashion pages (from what book
4?). tres kewl.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 37
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:35:06 EDT
In a message dated 7/11/99 10:58:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
iscottw@*****.nb.ca writes:

> ] Oh well thanks Steve for at least putting it in
> ] and acknowledging it. (I think that Emu, Platypus,
> ] Gecko, Goanna & Kangaroo would personally
> ] have worked better)
> <snip>
>
> What's a goanna?
>

Drawing my extensive knowledge of Australia (I saw both Crocodile Dundee
movies, and watch the crazy Crocodile Hunter guy :-)
Goana is a lizard, sorta like an iguana, but not so godzilla looking, IIRC.
(Oh, and Mick says they taste like shi...well, that might not be useful)
Message no. 38
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:52:46 EDT
In a message dated 7/11/99 6:43:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Twist0059@***.com writes:

> The real problem with FASA's direction of Shadowrun (I think)
> actually only came with the Dunkelzahn plotline, which ironically also
> provided the momentum which has transformed SR from an RPG which felt
stuck
> in neutral to one which now cruises along.

Well, barring the actual death of Dunkelzhan, the rest has been a great
addition to the world IMO. The Death and the entire novel series was designed
to put options into the game. Think of Blood in the Boardroom, my favorite
adventure, spurred on by Death.
While the players are not included in the novels, most campaigns of that
"power level" would have to modify any product anyway.
Twist makes a point (in the midst of his never-ending rant against the
Dragonheart Trilogy :-) the storylines are progressing, they are doing
things. Mob-War, Corp War, Year of the Comet....all have great oppurtunities
for adventure.

>and even most of the so-called "rumors" in Threats have been
>revealed (there was a great one; GMs were told it was up to them to decide
>the truth of each entry, but not one single entry remains which novels or
>sourcebooks haven't revealed, and two of them were never in doubt in the
>first place!)

Actually, few of them have been, for instance;Human Nation, Alamos 20K, the
Black Lodge, Winternight (may have heard mention of it somewhere, but nothing
concrete) Tutor
Most of the ones that have been added to and developed sinc ethen, were
already around before Threats. The GM has the option of deciding how much is
truth in a lot of things, but as I said, the Ordo were always that way,
Lofwyr, Atlantean Foundation most of the others were also developed before
Threats put them togethor.

IMO of course :-)
Message no. 39
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:06:15 EDT
In a message dated 7/11/99 12:53:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Schizi@***.com
writes:

> Actually, few of them have been, for instance;Human Nation, Alamos 20K,
the
> Black Lodge, Winternight (may have heard mention of it somewhere, but
> nothing
> concrete) Tutor

The Black Lodge was mentioned more than once in MitS, I believe. Alamos 20K
has been around forever. Human Nation is mentioned in Psychtrope.
Winternight was in Cyberpirates, or at least their god-chip was. I forgot of
Tutor though! Wait until Koke's next novel, when we find out it's really
Lofwyr, prefaced by a dozen sex scenes with Nadja Daviar.



-Twist
Message no. 40
From: kawaii kawaii@********.org
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:11:21 -0400 (EDT)
On Sun, 11 Jul 1999 Twist0059@***.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/11/99 12:53:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Schizi@***.com
> writes:
>
> > Actually, few of them have been, for instance;Human Nation, Alamos 20K,
> the
> > Black Lodge, Winternight (may have heard mention of it somewhere, but
> > nothing
> > concrete) Tutor
>
> The Black Lodge was mentioned more than once in MitS, I believe. Alamos 20K
> has been around forever. Human Nation is mentioned in Psychtrope.
> Winternight was in Cyberpirates, or at least their god-chip was. I forgot of
> Tutor though! Wait until Koke's next novel, when we find out it's really
> Lofwyr, prefaced by a dozen sex scenes with Nadja Daviar.
>
>
>
> -Twist
>
>
>

Wow, you are pretty bitter about this, aren't you? =)

IMO, they have so far always prefaced each sourcebook as being rumors and
such from shadowland, which means that you can always just say, "No,
that's not what they are." At risk of using another gaming company as an
example, White Wolf has regretted the writing of "Dirt Secrets of the
Black Hand " extremely, since most GMs will slice and dice it up for spare
parts and ignore it completely otherwise. =) That's what I felt that
Threats was for. Paranoia carried to the next level. "There are world wide
conspiracies out there, man!" type of thing. Maybe true, amybe not, maybe
I'm Dunklezahn's reincarnted human-nbody. I figure that since it is my
world, I can decide such things. I figure most GMs do the same thing.
YMMV.

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 41
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:39:11 EDT
In a message dated 7/11/99 5:21:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kawaii@********.org writes:

> > In a message dated 7/11/99 12:53:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Schizi@***.
> com
> > writes:
> >
> > > Actually, few of them have been, for instance;Human Nation, Alamos
20K,
>
> > the
> > > Black Lodge, Winternight (may have heard mention of it somewhere, but
> > > nothing
> > > concrete) Tutor
> >
> > The Black Lodge was mentioned more than once in MitS, I believe. Alamos
> 20K
> > has been around forever. Human Nation is mentioned in Psychtrope.
> > Winternight was in Cyberpirates, or at least their god-chip was. I
forgot
> of
> > Tutor though! Wait until Koke's next novel, when we find out it's
really
> > Lofwyr, prefaced by a dozen sex scenes with Nadja Daviar.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Twist
> >
> >
> >
>
> Wow, you are pretty bitter about this, aren't you? =)
>
> IMO, they have so far always prefaced each sourcebook as being rumors and
> such from shadowland, which means that you can always just say, "No,
> that's not what they are." At risk of using another gaming company as an
> example, White Wolf has regretted the writing of "Dirt Secrets of the
> Black Hand " extremely, since most GMs will slice and dice it up for spare
> parts and ignore it completely otherwise. =) That's what I felt that
> Threats was for. Paranoia carried to the next level. "There are world wide
> conspiracies out there, man!" type of thing. Maybe true, amybe not, maybe
> I'm Dunklezahn's reincarnted human-nbody. I figure that since it is my
> world, I can decide such things. I figure most GMs do the same thing.
> YMMV.
>
> Ever lovable and always scrappy,
> kawaii
>


I am pretty bitter about the Dragon Heart Saga. I thought the
writing was very bad and the characters lifeless. (Not saying Koke is a bad
guy, just that I don't like his work.)
The problem really with these official storylines is that you try and
come up with your own plots, like who or what was really behind Dunk's
assassination, and you end up with players telling you that isn't the way it
happened. Sure, you can say it's my game, take it or leave it, but in the
end it means you can never really have an accurate game that follows the
major plots. Even the mention of having a group of shadorunners along with
Mercury in the Dragon Heart Saga creates that alternate history timeline.
It's cool to be able to shoehorn in your players to such epic events, but
depressing to know it never really happened that way in FASA's Shadowrun
universe. So you end up feeling like a kid who lost that damn boxcar racing
tournament in the Boy Scouts and whose parents bought him a trophy from a
store.



-Twist
Message no. 42
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:11:19 -0700
Twist0059@***.com wrote:

So you end up feeling like a kid who lost that damn boxcar racing

> tournament in the Boy Scouts and whose parents bought him a trophy from a
> store.

Ewww. That thing was easy to win. You just grease the wheels.....I know,
technically cheating, but....:>
Message no. 43
From: kawaii kawaii@********.org
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:05:53 -0400 (EDT)
On Sun, 11 Jul 1999 Twist0059@***.com wrote:

<SNIP>
> >
> > Wow, you are pretty bitter about this, aren't you? =)
> >
> > IMO, they have so far always prefaced each sourcebook as being rumors and
> > such from shadowland, which means that you can always just say, "No,
> > that's not what they are." At risk of using another gaming company as an
> > example, White Wolf has regretted the writing of "Dirt Secrets of the
> > Black Hand " extremely, since most GMs will slice and dice it up for spare
> > parts and ignore it completely otherwise. =) That's what I felt that
> > Threats was for. Paranoia carried to the next level. "There are world wide
> > conspiracies out there, man!" type of thing. Maybe true, amybe not, maybe
> > I'm Dunklezahn's reincarnted human-nbody. I figure that since it is my
> > world, I can decide such things. I figure most GMs do the same thing.
> > YMMV.
> >
> > Ever lovable and always scrappy,
> > kawaii
> >
>
>
> I am pretty bitter about the Dragon Heart Saga. I thought the
> writing was very bad and the characters lifeless. (Not saying Koke is a bad
> guy, just that I don't like his work.)
> The problem really with these official storylines is that you try and
> come up with your own plots, like who or what was really behind Dunk's
> assassination, and you end up with players telling you that isn't the way it
> happened. Sure, you can say it's my game, take it or leave it, but in the
> end it means you can never really have an accurate game that follows the
> major plots. Even the mention of having a group of shadorunners along with
> Mercury in the Dragon Heart Saga creates that alternate history timeline.
> It's cool to be able to shoehorn in your players to such epic events, but
> depressing to know it never really happened that way in FASA's Shadowrun
> universe. So you end up feeling like a kid who lost that damn boxcar racing
> tournament in the Boy Scouts and whose parents bought him a trophy from a
> store.
>
>
>
> -Twist
>
>
>

Again, this is my opinion. =)

I like to run SR as a dark, very CP-esque where the players *don't* have
much effect on the world. Where dragons and immortal elves are the stuff
of street rumor and that *everyone* nobviously knows it is not true.
;)Now, some people might like high-powered games, and I must admit that I
do as well every now and then, so YMMV. With a low-end game, there isn't
much of a chance of a runner team to get involved in something like this,
unless it was on a very small scale. It does give the impression that
wqhat the runners do doesn't really have much of an effrecct on the world,
which I feel is appropriate for the depression, the hopelessness, and the
mechanical "wheel of the megacorps" will roll you over and screw you over,
in the end, regardsless feel. =)


Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 44
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:02:04 -0700
> Tasmania _is_ a state of Australia.

But is it still so in 2060? Without even a world map we don't know.
Message no. 45
From: Da Twink Daddy datwinkdaddy@*********.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:21:07 -0500
> > Tasmania _is_ a state of Australia.
>
> But is it still so in 2060? Without even a world map we don't know.

Of course, you know... you are GM. It is your world.

If you aren't GM: Maybe your character DOESN'T know. If he does, ask
the GM, and he can fill you in.

What? You WANT to be bound by FASA's world and force fed Koke stories?
Hrm, not my style, and I don't think it is FASA's either, really.

Da Twink Daddy
bss03@*******.uark.edu
ICQ# 514984
Message no. 46
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:59:07 +1000
> I'd also like to thank Steve Kenson for the
> section on Aboriginal Magic in MiTS.
> The only funny thing though is the MiTS entry
> that lists Badger as an Australian Aborigine
> totem. All the others were fine, they were at
> least animals that can be found on the continent :)
> Oh well thanks Steve for at least putting it in
> and acknowledging it. (I think that Emu, Platypus,
> Gecko, Goanna & Kangaroo would personally
> have worked better) All in all thanks to everyone
> that has listed the largest island in the world
> in their writings.

badger? - i found that pretty strange too.... <shrug> What, are we to expect
that American Writers actually KNOW that there arent badgers in Australia? (or
thats the whole continent isnt just a myth made up by hollywood... ?

> But what the hell do I know. I'm a New South
> Wales immigrant living behind enemy lines
> in Queensland.
>
> Manx
> timburke@*******.com.au

Ah.. the resistance!
Message no. 47
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:02:11 +1000
Schizi@***.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/11/99 10:58:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> iscottw@*****.nb.ca writes:
>
> > ] Oh well thanks Steve for at least putting it in
> > ] and acknowledging it. (I think that Emu, Platypus,
> > ] Gecko, Goanna & Kangaroo would personally
> > ] have worked better)
> > <snip>
> >
> > What's a goanna?
> >
>
> Drawing my extensive knowledge of Australia (I saw both Crocodile Dundee
> movies, and watch the crazy Crocodile Hunter guy :-)
> Goana is a lizard, sorta like an iguana, but not so godzilla looking, IIRC.
> (Oh, and Mick says they taste like shi...well, that might not be useful)

Big lizard, yes.

If it bites you it gives you some sort of bio-virus-fungus thingy which makes the
bite afflicted area (and occasionally the whole body) itch like heck for the rest
of your life. No vaccine or antiveneme or whatever has been made yet.

They are pretty ferral - relative to say rattlesnakes.. dont bother then, they
occasionally decide to bother you :)
Message no. 48
From: Darrell L. Bowman darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:07:06 -0400
On 12 Jul 99, at 12:02, Aaron Binns wrote:

> Big lizard, yes.
>
> If it bites you it gives you some sort of bio-virus-fungus thingy which
> makes the bite afflicted area (and occasionally the whole body) itch like
> heck for the rest of your life. No vaccine or antiveneme or whatever has
> been made yet.
>
> They are pretty ferral - relative to say rattlesnakes.. dont bother then,
> they occasionally decide to bother you :)

OUCH!


---
Life is full of doors that don't open when you knock,
equally spaced amid those that open when you don't
want them to.
-- Merlin son of Corwin,
Trumps of Doom, by Roger Zelazny


Nightshade, Human Racoon Shaman
or
Raven, Elven Irish Rigger with an attitude.

Darrell Bowman
darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Message no. 49
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:44:17 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Twist0059@***.com."
] The Black Lodge was mentioned more than once in MitS, I believe.
<snip>

First time I remember seeing the Black Lodge mentioned was The
Shadowrun Companion (2nd. Ed.). It's under the Dark Secret Flaw.

-Murder of One
Message no. 50
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:48:00 +1000
At 11:57 11/07/99 -0300 Scott Wheelock wrote
>"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Manx."
>
><snip>
>] Oh well thanks Steve for at least putting it in
>] and acknowledging it. (I think that Emu, Platypus,
>] Gecko, Goanna & Kangaroo would personally
>] have worked better)
><snip>
>
> What's a goanna?
>
>-Murder of One

Well I'm glad you asked.
The Goanna is a lizard that is native
to Australia. They are often found to be
between 1 and 2 metre's long and have
talons that can strip the flesh from your
bones. They have a tough leathery hide
and have the tendancy to run for high
ground when spooked. This can, and
often has, taken the form of running up
the tallest person and clawing their head
thinking that they are a tree.

The Aboriginal people hold Goanna
in high esteem with many of their legends
and traditional artworks featuring these
great lizards. The Goanna has a major
role in the Dreamtime of the Aboriginal
people with a huge example being
a central part of the creation legend.

Apparently they taste pretty
good too. I have personally on several
occasions come across Goanna's in the
bush and remember coming across
one that stood a foot high at the shoulders.
I didn't make any sudden movements
(I'm 6'7" tall and the likely "tree" if the
thing got spooked.)

For a good picture of what a Goanna looks
like in the wild check out this link:

http://www.aquaweb.net/milamba/rep15.htm

__________________________________
Manx // timburke@*******.com.au // #950
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt
and then it's just hilarious." - Faith No More
__________________________________
Message no. 51
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:54:25 +0200
According to Twist0059@***.com, at 6:45 on 11 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> > In other words, you want Chromebooks for Shadowrun?
>
> Chromebooks? GURPS?

Cyberpunk 2020. They're books (four so far) filled with gear of every
kind, some very useful to have in stressful situations (combat, etc.) and
some only really handy for character building (what do you do with an
exercise machine or a Bar-in-a-Briefcase apart from say "My character owns
them"?).


According to Michael & Linda Frankl, at 12:05 on 11 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> >In other words, you want Chromebooks for Shadowrun?
>
> Are those netbooks on the Plastic Warriors site?

No, they're real sourcebooks published by R. Talsorian. I did do
conversions of them to Shadowrun, though, which can be found on the PW
site.


According to Twist0059@***.com, at 7:03 on 11 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> WOW! Just checked this out, and it is beautiful!! Great job
> Gurth!!!!!!!!!

Although the Conversions mention this, it _is_ a very good idea to also
buy the Cyberpunk sourcebooks I converted to SR. They give much more
information than what's in the net.book.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Cooking with the devil, frying down in hell.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 52
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:54:25 +0200
According to Michael & Linda Frankl, at 11:34 on 11 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> Think of the SOTA angle too. This would provide GM's with some hard gear to
> have players strive for to keep up with the competition. This would help
> take away the nebulous SOTA cost that the players see no real advantage for
> other than being a cash black hole that they pay, but nothing really changes
> on the character sheet.

I've said it before and I'll probably say it again: the SOTA rules are
screwed up. Instead of making new technology better, it degrades the
performance of the old. I understand this was done because otherwise, in a
few years' time we'd all be using rating 200 white noise generators and
carrying 150M heavy pistols, but it still doesn't make much sense when you
really look at it: it means that an older firearm won't kill as well as a
newer one, for example. But I somehow doubt the bullets from an 1899-
vintage bolt action rifle would bounce off my skin because the SOTA in
1999 is much more advanced...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Cooking with the devil, frying down in hell.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 53
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:56:02 +1000
At 17:02 11/07/99 -0700 Arcady wrote
>> Tasmania _is_ a state of Australia.
>
>But is it still so in 2060? Without even a world map we don't know.
>

Well by 2060 Tasmania will have caught up to the 1990's
and in the 1990's it was well and truely a state of Australia. :)

__________________________________
Manx // timburke@*******.com.au // #950
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt
and then it's just hilarious." - Faith No More
__________________________________
Message no. 54
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:41:02 CST
>We don't have Kennett for a start <g>
>
>Seriously it strikes me that there could easily be enough differences
>between Australia and Tasmania for a bit of coverage. Some differences in
>paranimls. Probably no manna storms as there isn't an outback here, stuff
>like that.


And the most vicious beast of all. The Awakened Tasmanian Devil.

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 55
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:46:10 -0500
>And the most vicious beast of all. The Awakened Tasmanian Devil.

And this beastie's feeding habits would be...what, exactly?

<runs away>

Patrick
Message no. 56
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:54:32 CST
> But there's the problem. This kind of developing storyline >THE BIG SNIP
>(tm)
>players out of the direct action.

You do have some good points there Twist. However, I gotta argue with you
about Threats. There are a lot of stuff that hasn't been dealt with.
Winternight, Dr. Halberstam, Alamos 20K, Human Nation, Tutor, even Lofwyr
and KSAF. Sure the stuff pertaining to the IE/Azzie/Dunk stuff and the
Vampire Consriracy has been dealt with (although not definitavely in the
case of the VC), but there is still more. And besides, Threats is a great
inspirational tool. Adapt some of the stuff and change it to fit your
needs.


Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 57
From: Jarmo Karonen jarmo.karonen@***.fi
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:17:20 +0300
MC23 wrote:

> I would like to see a Shadowrun Almanac with a new one published
>yearly. The world at a glance could be useful. Making such a book truly
>marketable is the challenge. Maybe if FASA could make their own online
>zine like SJG's Pyramid then there would be an even better place for
such
>material. Hmmm, the best of that material could be published as the
>Almanacs. I like that idea. Hmmm.....

This Shadowrun Almanac could also include a timeline of events for the
given year collected from all the sourcebooks that are set to that year.
I personally would need this kind a book. I mean, there's just too many
dates to keep up with in books like PoaD, Mob War! or Blood in the
Boardroom.

Let me guess: nobody else finds this a problem...

- J. Karonen
Message no. 58
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:26:32 -0400
At 18.17 07-12-99 +0300, you wrote:
>This Shadowrun Almanac could also include a timeline of events for the
>given year collected from all the sourcebooks that are set to that year.

Kinda like a "yearbook"? That might go better than an annual almanac, and
they could (re)release stuff set pre-'60 (I like the 2050s, personally) and
items that are timeless but aren't being printed.




CyberRaven Kevin Dole
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"Briar Rabbit to Briar Fox; I was BORN in that briar patch!"
Message no. 59
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:31:07 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Geoffrey Haacke."
] You do have some good points there Twist. However, I gotta argue with you
] about Threats. There are a lot of stuff that hasn't been dealt with.
] Winternight, Dr. Halberstam, Alamos 20K, Human Nation, Tutor, even Lofwyr
] and KSAF. Sure the stuff pertaining to the IE/Azzie/Dunk stuff and the
] Vampire Consriracy has been dealt with (although not definitavely in the
] case of the VC), but there is still more. And besides, Threats is a great
] inspirational tool. Adapt some of the stuff and change it to fit your
] needs.

Speaking of Threats, it's out-of-print, right? But not too long OOP,
as far as I know...is there anywhere you all know of that sells it,
maybe an online bookstore or something? I'll go check Amazon.com now,
but I don't know any others.

-Murder of One
Message no. 60
From: David Cordy DCordy@****.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:51:56 -0700
> Speaking of Threats, it's out-of-print, right? But not too long OOP,
> as far as I know...is there anywhere you all know of that sells it,
> maybe an online bookstore or something? I'll go check Amazon.com now,
> but I don't know any others.
>
Are there any On-line stores listed in the FAQ? I can't recall. If not, it
might be worth adding some.

But to answer your question, I have ordered through Dragon's Trove
(http://www.dragontrove.com). That is where I got my Denver box set, and I
was really happy with the whole experience. Hope this helps.

> -Murder of One
>
DavidC
Message no. 61
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:57:42 CST
W
E

A
R
E

G
O
I
N
G

T
O

N
E
E
D

A

W
H
O
L
E

W
H
A
C
K

O
F

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

F
O
R

T
H
I
S

O
N
E

L
A
D
I
E
S

A
N
D

G
E
N
T
S
!
!
!
!


>OK...I for one can't keep up with the novels, as NOBODY around here *dares*
>to
>carry them (why, I dunno. Can't even get em on Special Order:()...where
>was:
>DK-EM, what caused the crash, and what the deep resonance is featured?????

OK. DK-EM was tossed in rahter offhandedly (and rather unneccesarily IMO)
in the Dragon Heart Trilogy (the 2nd one I believe). The truth of the crash
was in the same serires (at least with this they left the possiblilty of the
Crash Virus coming back.)
Deep resonance was featured in "Crossroads" rather briefly, and there it
may have actually been Deus (i think) and was revealed to be a mutated Fuchi
pych program in Psychotrope (decent novel, bad explanation of DR IMO). Hope
that helps.

PS. Try Amazon.com to order the books. That should help (i hope).

>
>John
>
>
>


Geoff Haacke
"If you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 62
From: Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:00:02 -0400
> >I would like to see a Shadowrun Almanac with a new one published
> >yearly. The world at a glance could be useful. Making such a book truly
> >marketable is the challenge. Maybe if FASA could make their own online
> >zine like SJG's Pyramid then there would be an even better place for
> such
> >material.

This is (sort of) the point of my Sixth World web site
(http://pobox.com/~wordman/sixthworld/)

> This Shadowrun Almanac could also include a timeline of events for the
> given year collected from all the sourcebooks that are set to that year.

Interesting idea. There is a timeline on Deep Resonance, but I'm not sure if
it gives page numbers.
Message no. 63
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:44:17 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Manx."

] For a good picture of what a Goanna looks
] like in the wild check out this link:
]
] http://www.aquaweb.net/milamba/rep15.htm

Thanks for the info! The picture helped too...I'd seen that lizard
(on T.V.) but couldn't place the name.

-Murder of One
Message no. 64
From: Da Twink Daddy datwinkdaddy@*********.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:17:30 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>

> I've said it before and I'll probably say it again: the SOTA rules
are
> screwed up. Instead of making new technology better, it degrades the
> performance of the old. I understand this was done because
otherwise, in a
> few years' time we'd all be using rating 200 white noise generators
and
> carrying 150M heavy pistols, but it still doesn't make much sense
when you
> really look at it: it means that an older firearm won't kill as well
as a
> newer one, for example. But I somehow doubt the bullets from an
1899-
> vintage bolt action rifle would bounce off my skin because the SOTA
in
> 1999 is much more advanced...

Well, as far as guns/armor I agree with you, and I _wouldn't_ degrade
them for SOTA reasons, but the way I look at cyberdeck/electronics
[Basically anything with the abstract 'rating' property], is that the
rating goes down because it is a _relative_ rating. Like, If you were
rating everything on a 1-10 scale, and then something comes out that
is twice as good as your '10' but, you still want to use the same
scale, you just divide all the old ratings by 2 and you get your
standard 1-10 rating system.

So, when SOTA rolls around, it's not that your program as lost *real*
effectiveness, it still does all it has. But, the baseline for
'scoring' that tech has changed, so your program has lost *relative*
effectiveness, which is really the only thing that matters because
it's only used in a relative manner.

Things that don't use the abstract 'rating' property don't degrade,
but there could be stuff released that has better other properties,
and *maybe* what you have will be worth less ¥, but it still it just
as effective vs. the same stuff.

Da Twink Daddy
bss03@*******.uark.edu
ICQ# 514984
Message no. 65
From: arcady@***.net arcady@***.net
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 99 13:28:23 +700
>>> Tasmania _is_ a state of Australia.
>>
>>But is it still so in 2060? Without even a world map we don't know.
>
>Well by 2060 Tasmania will have caught up to the 1990's
>and in the 1990's it was well and truely a state of Australia. :)

In the same way that Washington and Hawaii are states of the USA in the 1990's?
And Korea is two nations not one?

A world overview book is needed.
Message no. 66
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:13:16 -0500
> Speaking of Threats, it's out-of-print, right? But not too long OOP,
> as far as I know...is there anywhere you all know of that sells it,
> maybe an online bookstore or something? I'll go check Amazon.com now,
> but I don't know any others.

www.crazyegors.com

www.levalet.com

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 67
From: Graht Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:23:57 -0500
Manx wrote:
/
/For a good picture of what a Goanna looks
/like in the wild check out this link:
/
/http://www.aquaweb.net/milamba/rep15.htm

FWIW, there are different varieties :)

http://www.aquaweb.net/milamba/rep21.htm

-Graht
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3
Geek Code: GCS d-( ) s++:->+ a@ C++>$ US P L >++ E? W++>+++ !N o-- K-
w+ o? M- VMS? PS+(++) PE+(++) Y+ !PGP t+(++) 5+(++) X++(+++) R+>$ tv+b++ DI++++
D+(++) G e+>+++ h--->---- r+++ y+++
http://home.att.net/~Graht
"The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know
and the more I want to learn."
-Einstein
Message no. 68
From: Stefan casanova@***.passagen.se
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:36:46 +0000
> Speaking of Threats, it's out-of-print, right? But not too long OOP,
> as far as I know...is there anywhere you all know of that sells it,
> maybe an online bookstore or something? I'll go check Amazon.com now,
> but I don't know any others.

www.titan-games.com
www.crazyegors.com


-stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage ..........[updated] http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/stefan/ ...
... ICQ ................................................... 793828 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 69
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:57:57 EDT
In a message dated 7/12/99 6:11:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gurth@******.nl
writes:

> Although the Conversions mention this, it _is_ a very good idea to also
> buy the Cyberpunk sourcebooks {Chromebooks series} I converted to SR. They
give much more
> information than what's in the net.book.


I was out buying the Cyberpunk 2020 game today, but could only find the first
Chromebook. I asked my retailer about it and he said that the company has
been failing lately, and their stuff is undependable when ordered. Has
anyone heard other rumors of this? Shall there be no more Chromebooks?



-Twist
Message no. 70
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:05:11 -0600
At 21:57 7/12/99 -0400, Twist0059@***.com wrote:

>I was out buying the Cyberpunk 2020 game today, but could only find the
first
>Chromebook. I asked my retailer about it and he said that the company has
>been failing lately, and their stuff is undependable when ordered. Has
>anyone heard other rumors of this? Shall there be no more Chromebooks?

Ral Talsorian is basically toast. They're a "part time" operation now, with
two fulltime staff - Mike Pondsmith and his wife. Apparently they do have
something finished (Dragonball Z?), and when they get the permission from
japan, that will be printed and shipped, and they're apparently also
working on Cyberpunk (The game, not the genre!) 3rd edition, which will be
Cyberpunk 2030something.

Adam
*puke* CP2020 *gag*
--
< adamj@*********.html.com / http://shadowrun.html.com/tss >
< ICQ# 2350330 / ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / Shadowrun Creative Resources >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
Message no. 71
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:04:21 EDT
In a message dated 7/11/1999 4:08:13 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Twist0059@***.com writes:

> > Actually, few of them have been, for instance;Human Nation, Alamos 20K,
> the
> > Black Lodge, Winternight (may have heard mention of it somewhere, but
> > nothing
> > concrete) Tutor
>
> The Black Lodge was mentioned more than once in MitS, I believe. Alamos
20K
>
> has been around forever. Human Nation is mentioned in Psychtrope.
> Winternight was in Cyberpirates, or at least their god-chip was. I forgot
> of
> Tutor though! Wait until Koke's next novel, when we find out it's really
> Lofwyr, prefaced by a dozen sex scenes with Nadja Daviar.


You're right, and if we are *REALLY* lucky, we'll discover that Twist is
really just a hand-job given by a homeless person for crack....

-K

"....in this MOUN.....TAIN....TOWWWWWWWNNNNNN!!!!"
Message no. 72
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:24:34 EDT
In a message dated 7/12/99 10:18:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Ereskanti@***.com writes:

> > The Black Lodge was mentioned more than once in MitS, I believe. Alamos
> 20K
> >
> > has been around forever. Human Nation is mentioned in Psychtrope.
> > Winternight was in Cyberpirates, or at least their god-chip was. I
> forgot
> > of
> > Tutor though! Wait until Koke's next novel, when we find out it's
really
>
> > Lofwyr, prefaced by a dozen sex scenes with Nadja Daviar.
>
>
> You're right, and if we are *REALLY* lucky, we'll discover that Twist is
> really just a hand-job given by a homeless person for crack....
>
> -K
>


Ha-fraggin-Ha. The point still remains that all these cool GM hooks are
being usurped by the writers instead of their own creations, and Koke seems
to be the frontrunner of this.




-Twist
Message no. 73
From: MC23 mc23@**********.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:39:47 -0400
Once upon a time, Twist0059@***.com wrote;

>I was out buying the Cyberpunk 2020 game today, but could only find the
>first
>Chromebook. I asked my retailer about it and he said that the company has
>been failing lately, and their stuff is undependable when ordered. Has
>anyone heard other rumors of this? Shall there be no more Chromebooks?

I think I read somewhere that the books will reprinted and be combined
into 1&2 and 3&4. I already have the books so I didn't pay that much
attention, sorry.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 74
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:25:50 +0200
According to Twist0059@***.com, at 21:57 on 12 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> I was out buying the Cyberpunk 2020 game today, but could only find the first
> Chromebook. I asked my retailer about it and he said that the company has
> been failing lately, and their stuff is undependable when ordered. Has
> anyone heard other rumors of this? Shall there be no more Chromebooks?

To the best of my knowledge, right now R. Talsorian Games doesn't consist
of much more than Mike Pondsmith and his spare room. What impact this has
on their reliability, I don't know, but I do know that Cyberpunk 3rd
edition still isn't out, even though I played in a demo game of it almost
two years ago...

As for the Chromebooks, some of the Chromebooks have been out of print for
a while, but I did read something about a few being re-issued together in
one book (#1 and #2, I believe).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Cooking with the devil, frying down in hell.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 75
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:48:40 -0400 (EDT)
The one thing you have to remember about the geographic sourcebooks is
"can you shadowrun there" and if so "what do you do". If you can't
answer
those questions, my guess is Mike isn't gonna approve them. Shadowrunning
is a broad term here (smuggling, break-ins, etc). And there may be an
exception for some cool place that went to hell and back b/c of the
Awakening, but that'd probably be about it.

This is a big reason behind the change from a book like CalFree to
the Target books which highlight a few areas and give you lots to do there.
Message no. 76
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:54:12 -0400 (EDT)
> >Target:Europe: Covering the Old Country. They've done London and Germany
> >(though I'm told the latter was kinda twinked out). Now it would help if
> >they'd do the REST of the continent, so that we don't have to rely on
> >contradictory and sometimes plain WEIRD novels.

The Novels aren't considered canon. Well, more accurately, a sourcebook
can contradict a novel, and the latter should not happen again.


> I would love to see Target: Scandinavia (or actually "the Nordic
> countries", but maybe that wouldn't look too good on a cover ;).

How about "Aurora Borealis" or "the Swedish Shadowrunning team"?
Message no. 77
From: Sommers sommers@*****.edu
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:02:53 -0400
At 12:54 PM 7/13/99 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Target:Europe: Covering the Old Country. They've done London and Germany
> > >(though I'm told the latter was kinda twinked out). Now it would help if
> > >they'd do the REST of the continent, so that we don't have to rely on
> > >contradictory and sometimes plain WEIRD novels.
>
>The Novels aren't considered canon. Well, more accurately, a sourcebook
>can contradict a novel, and the latter should not happen again.

I was always under the opinion that the action in the novels (ie Burning
Bright or Psychotrope) was considered cannon, but individual acts that
violate the rules (not projecting through a wooden wall or a human becoming
a drake) was poetic liscence.

In other words, if it deals with history its good, if it deals with rules
of the game it might or might not be bad.


Sommers
Insert witty quote here.
Message no. 78
From: Da Twink Daddy datwinkdaddy@*********.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:21:41 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.edu>

> I was always under the opinion that the action in the novels (ie
Burning
> Bright or Psychotrope) was considered cannon, but individual acts
that
> violate the rules (not projecting through a wooden wall or a human
becoming
> a drake) was poetic liscence.

Um, but you can project though wooden walls, unless it is a living
awakened wall currently being dual natured (or always dual-natured.)

I mean, you can go through people, why not walls?

Da Twink Daddy
bss03@*******.uark.edu
ICQ# 514984
Message no. 79
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:00:09 -0400 (EDT)
> I was always under the opinion that the action in the novels (ie Burning
> Bright or Psychotrope) was considered cannon, but individual acts that
> violate the rules (not projecting through a wooden wall or a human becoming
> a drake) was poetic liscence.
>
> In other words, if it deals with history its good, if it deals with rules
> of the game it might or might not be bad.

That's probably more accurate. But a sourcebook could come out after a novel
and contradict something in it. Probably won't, since there seems to be
more coordination on FASA's end about that sort of thing.
Message no. 80
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:08:25 EDT
In a message dated 7/13/99 12:55:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rtomasso@*******.com writes:

> The Novels aren't considered canon. Well, more accurately, a sourcebook
> can contradict a novel, and the latter should not happen again.

<cough> The dwarf who goblinized from a human <cough>



-Twist
Message no. 81
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:09:28 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Richard Tomasso."
] > I was always under the opinion that the action in the novels (ie Burning
] > Bright or Psychotrope) was considered cannon, but individual acts that
] > violate the rules (not projecting through a wooden wall or a human
becoming
] > a drake) was poetic liscence.
] >
] > In other words, if it deals with history its good, if it deals with rules
] > of the game it might or might not be bad.
]
] That's probably more accurate. But a sourcebook could come out after a novel
] and contradict something in it. Probably won't, since there seems to be
] more coordination on FASA's end about that sort of thing.

I go by this...if a sourcebook mentions the events of a novel, then
"BINGO!" it's canon.

-Murder of One

(not cannon...canon)
Message no. 82
From: Sommers sommers@*****.edu
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:53:34 -0400
At 03:00 PM 7/13/99 -0400, you wrote:
> > I was always under the opinion that the action in the novels (ie Burning
> > Bright or Psychotrope) was considered cannon, but individual acts that
> > violate the rules (not projecting through a wooden wall or a human
> becoming
> > a drake) was poetic liscence.
> >
> > In other words, if it deals with history its good, if it deals with rules
> > of the game it might or might not be bad.
>
>That's probably more accurate. But a sourcebook could come out after a novel
>and contradict something in it. Probably won't, since there seems to be
>more coordination on FASA's end about that sort of thing.

Right. There were a few cases like that, but much less nowadays. I think
they're doing a pretty good job of that, which is partly why I would like
to see an almanac of the world. Almost exactly what Wordman has on his
page, actually. Just a brief blurb about the areas to get an idea of what
is going on without handcuffing everyone too much.


Sommers
Insert witty quote here.
Message no. 83
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:18:09 -0400 (EDT)
> >That's probably more accurate. But a sourcebook could come out after a novel
> >and contradict something in it. Probably won't, since there seems to be
> >more coordination on FASA's end about that sort of thing.
>
> Right. There were a few cases like that, but much less nowadays. I think
> they're doing a pretty good job of that, which is partly why I would like
> to see an almanac of the world. Almost exactly what Wordman has on his
> page, actually. Just a brief blurb about the areas to get an idea of what
> is going on without handcuffing everyone too much.

Don't hold your breath. Tho I think the rest of the SR world is going
to get a bit more coverage in Y2K. (hee hee)
Message no. 84
From: Jarmo Karonen jarmo.karonen@***.fi
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:20:38 +0300
Richard Tomasso wrote:

>> I would love to see Target: Scandinavia (or actually "the Nordic
>> countries", but maybe that wouldn't look too good on a cover ;).
>
>How about "Aurora Borealis" or "the Swedish Shadowrunning team"?

Make that "the Finnish Shadowrunning team" and I could consider it... :)

BTW. I was turned on to the no-mail for a day or so, so I may have
missed something even though I skimmed through the archive...

- J. Karonen
Message no. 85
From: David Hinkley dhinkley@***.org
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 03:05:14 -0700
From: "Jarmo Karonen" <jarmo.karonen@***.fi>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Subject: Re: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date sent: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:17:20 +0300
Send reply to: shadowrn@*********.org

> MC23 wrote:
>
> > I would like to see a Shadowrun Almanac with a new one published
> >yearly. The world at a glance could be useful. Making such a book truly
> >marketable is the challenge. Maybe if FASA could make their own online
> >zine like SJG's Pyramid then there would be an even better place for
> such
> >material. Hmmm, the best of that material could be published as the
> >Almanacs. I like that idea. Hmmm.....
>
> This Shadowrun Almanac could also include a timeline of events for the
> given year collected from all the sourcebooks that are set to that year.
> I personally would need this kind a book. I mean, there's just too many
> dates to keep up with in books like PoaD, Mob War! or Blood in the
> Boardroom.
>
> Let me guess: nobody else finds this a problem...
>
Wrong..Try again

This is more then a small problem, particularly the little details and references
to places and happenings that one might not associate with a particular book,
adventure or novel. Finding that "fact" you faintly remember can be a bear.




David G. Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
------------------------------------------------
"No passion in the world is equal to the passion
to alter someone else's draft"
H.G. Wells
Message no. 86
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:08:20 CST
>From: Twist0059@***.com
>
><cough> The dwarf who goblinized from a human <cough>

That was Shadowboxer wasn't it?? Hoo boy! You don't want to know what my
opinion of that book was!!! :)


>-Twist



Geoff Haacke
"If you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 87
From: Hamish Laws h_laws@**********.utas.edu.au
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:17:31 +1000
At 07:56 PM 7/12/99 +1000, you wrote:
>At 17:02 11/07/99 -0700 Arcady wrote
>>> Tasmania _is_ a state of Australia.
>>
>>But is it still so in 2060? Without even a world map we don't know.
>>
>
>Well by 2060 Tasmania will have caught up to the 1990's
>and in the 1990's it was well and truely a state of Australia. :)

Watch it, I'll send a complaint to Mr Hawke... <g>

Actually has anyone much stuffed around with really isolated communities in
SR?
People who went into hiding during VITAS say?

****************************************************************************
The Politician's Slogan
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
****************************************************************************

Mad Hamish

Hamish Laws
h_laws@**********.utas.edu.au
h_laws@******.net.au
Message no. 88
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Thoughts: sourcebook ideas
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:37:43 EDT
In a message dated 7/14/1999 10:15:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
h_laws@**********.utas.edu.au writes:

> Actually has anyone much stuffed around with really isolated communities in
> SR?
> People who went into hiding during VITAS say?

I am *just* beginning to use something however in relationship to FAB-3
(Ares) and the (defunct? ;-) containment zone. A variation on "the
Underground Railroad", but in this case now deals with Ghouls. Trick is that
many of them are wanting to get to Africa because of a story they've been
hearing.

I'm not sure *I've* ever used the isolationist consideration for a game,
mostly because I want to keep all the characters (including the decker, which
can be tricky at times) involved in the game.

-K

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Thoughts: sourcebook ideas, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.