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Message no. 1
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 11:02:59 +1100
-----Original Message-----
From: Mister Incognito <misterincognito@*******.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Saturday, September 09, 2000 11:53 PM
Subject: Threats Question


>In the Alamos 20,000 section one of the group leaders is called The Loon
and
>is in charge of their magical activities- he runs the Howling Lodge
>apparently, their initiatory group. The info. says he's probably an ex
>member of the Sovereign Tribal Council, that he used to be one of the
>inner-circle of Howling Coyotes ghost Dance crew but split from them
latter.
>
>The question is, does anyone know who this guy is? The major clue to his
>identity is a quote from NAN in the News saying to 'Look for the one who
>howls under a moonless sky' for the guys identity. I was wondering if
anyone
>with the NAN books could have a look to see if there was any info. on who
>the guy is e.g. his real name, general summary of the guy as a big noise in
>the NAN books.
>
>Cheers.


My guess would be Howling Coyote himself. "Howls under a moonless sky" could
be taken to mean he did the Ghost Dance, major magic when there was no magic
(Howls as in had a magical totem, Coyote, which howls, and moonless sky
because everyone knows the moon is magical, and the bright moon rising in
the night sky is like the rise in mana). He was definitely in the ghost
dance, and he walked out on the NAN when they constantlty fell to
squabbling, now nobody knows where (or who) he is. Read Find Your Own Truth
by Robert Charette, the third Shadowrun novel, for a good mental picture of
Howling Coyote and how he likes to act like a crazy old man who isn't very
good at magic, but knows Howling Coyote personally (think Yoda).
Message no. 2
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 18:39:47 +1100
-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Harrison <mataxes@****.net>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Sunday, September 10, 2000 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: Threats Question


>----- Original Message -----
>From: Simon and Fiona <sfuller@******.com.au>
>> My guess would be Howling Coyote himself.
>[Reasoning snipped for brevity]
>
>There are two problems that I see with this line of thought.
>
>1) The magic had returned when the Great Ghost Dance was performed. It took
>place in 2017 -- magic had returned by that point. It wasn't in widespread
>use, and the eruptions that resulted from the Dance were the first major
>evidence that the old traditions had magical validity, but the magic had
>returned by that point.
>

Well anyway, it still works. He howled at the moon when as far as the world
at large was concerned it wasn't there.

>2) According to the novel "Find Your Own Truth" Daniel Howling Coyote died
>in the second Ghost Dance. While I understand many folks don't look at the
>novels as canon, the events in them are generally indicated to have taken
>place, despte the lack of "rules backup" for them. Not to mention the fact
>that while Howling Coyote was a little bit on the... odd side (the
>comparison with Yoda is somewhat apropros) he didn't strike me as the kind
>who would go all... toxic. It seems fairly clear to me that the "Loon" is
>more than a couple playing cards short of a full deck.
>

Bugger, I forgot that. Of course, he is a COYOTE shaman. It may be because I
read too many comic books, but I bet he faked his death. Also, its been a
while since I read Threats, so I don't really know about the toxic bit. So
it goes.
Message no. 3
From: Mister Incognito misterincognito@*******.com
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 12:53:17 GMT
In the Alamos 20,000 section one of the group leaders is called The Loon and
is in charge of their magical activities- he runs the Howling Lodge
apparently, their initiatory group. The info. says he's probably an ex
member of the Sovereign Tribal Council, that he used to be one of the
inner-circle of Howling Coyotes ghost Dance crew but split from them latter.

The question is, does anyone know who this guy is? The major clue to his
identity is a quote from NAN in the News saying to 'Look for the one who
howls under a moonless sky' for the guys identity. I was wondering if anyone
with the NAN books could have a look to see if there was any info. on who
the guy is e.g. his real name, general summary of the guy as a big noise in
the NAN books.

Cheers.
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Message no. 4
From: Herc airwisp@******************.com
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 12:39:06 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mister Incognito"
<misterincognito@*******.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 7:53 AM
Subject: Threats Question


> In the Alamos 20,000 section one of the group
leaders is called The Loon and
> is in charge of their magical activities- he
runs the Howling Lodge
> apparently, their initiatory group. The info.
says he's probably an ex
> member of the Sovereign Tribal Council, that he
used to be one of the
> inner-circle of Howling Coyotes ghost Dance crew
but split from them latter.
>
> The question is, does anyone know who this guy
is? The major clue to his
> identity is a quote from NAN in the News saying
to 'Look for the one who
> howls under a moonless sky' for the guys
identity. I was wondering if anyone
> with the NAN books could have a look to see if
there was any info. on who
> the guy is e.g. his real name, general summary
of the guy as a big noise in
> the NAN books.
>
> Cheers.

There is nothing in any of the NAN books that
gives any information on the Loon.

There is a statement though that in Sioux there is
a initiate group that is working on trying to cure
some 'disease' that is infecting their nation. I
understood this to mean that there is someone or
some group within the Sioux Nation (or NAN) that
they are opposing.

-Mike
SYSOP - Hoosier Hacker House (Herc)
http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com
Message no. 5
From: Augustus shadowrun@********.net
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 14:48:21 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: Mister Incognito <misterincognito@*******.com>

> In the Alamos 20,000 section one of the group leaders is called The Loon
and
> is in charge of their magical activities- he runs the Howling Lodge
> apparently, their initiatory group. The info. says he's probably an ex
> member of the Sovereign Tribal Council, that he used to be one of the
> inner-circle of Howling Coyotes ghost Dance crew but split from them
latter.
>
> The question is, does anyone know who this guy is? The major clue to his
> identity is a quote from NAN in the News saying to 'Look for the one who
> howls under a moonless sky' for the guys identity. I was wondering if
anyone
> with the NAN books could have a look to see if there was any info. on who
> the guy is e.g. his real name, general summary of the guy as a big noise
in
> the NAN books.
>

I thumbed through both NAN books, Neo Anarchist Guide to North America, Tir
Tairngire, Seattle, Denver... can say... no idea... isn't anything that
really comes close to that.

There is an adventure in the NAN-1 book... and the main bad guy is Jesse
John... a tribal shaman (toxic) who is on the insane side... but its put
forth (though not necessarily true) that he was booted out of the Humanis
Policlub for being too radical. But... it doesn't make any real mention as
to him even being involved with Howling Coyote... not to mention, it doesn't
list his age, but he comes across as being 20-24... making him too young to
have been involved in the whole NAN formation.

The only other big player from that era who ever got much of a writeup was
Thunder Tyee... he was the leader of SAIM and did work with Howling Coyote
to form the NAN... however, he comes across as a nice guy in general...
doesn't fit the Alamos 20,000 profile in the least... not to mention he is
listed as having died in the 2030s

Only other thing I can think of... there was that novel that had Howling
Coyote in it... been so long since I read that... might be something in
there when he talks to the characters in the book... (can't tell ya what
novel it was or look it up myself... all my novels are in long term storage
out of town)

Augustus
Message no. 6
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:05:49 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Simon and Fiona <sfuller@******.com.au>
> My guess would be Howling Coyote himself.
[Reasoning snipped for brevity]

There are two problems that I see with this line of thought.

1) The magic had returned when the Great Ghost Dance was performed. It took
place in 2017 -- magic had returned by that point. It wasn't in widespread
use, and the eruptions that resulted from the Dance were the first major
evidence that the old traditions had magical validity, but the magic had
returned by that point.

2) According to the novel "Find Your Own Truth" Daniel Howling Coyote died
in the second Ghost Dance. While I understand many folks don't look at the
novels as canon, the events in them are generally indicated to have taken
place, despte the lack of "rules backup" for them. Not to mention the fact
that while Howling Coyote was a little bit on the... odd side (the
comparison with Yoda is somewhat apropros) he didn't strike me as the kind
who would go all... toxic. It seems fairly clear to me that the "Loon" is
more than a couple playing cards short of a full deck.

-- Josh

PS -- I'll pass along some lightbearer information later. Right now I must
sleep.
Message no. 7
From: NeoJ-is-K neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 00:50:27 -0500
From: "Simon and Fiona" <sfuller@******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Threats Question

> From: Mister Incognito <misterincognito@*******.com>
> Subject: Threats Question
>
> >In the Alamos 20,000 section one of the group leaders is called The Loon
> and
> >is in charge of their magical activities- he runs the Howling Lodge
> >apparently, their initiatory group. The info. says he's probably an ex
> >member of the Sovereign Tribal Council, that he used to be one of the
> >inner-circle of Howling Coyotes ghost Dance crew but split from them
> latter.
> >
> >The question is, does anyone know who this guy is? The major clue to his
> >identity is a quote from NAN in the News saying to 'Look for the one who
> >howls under a moonless sky' for the guys identity. I was wondering if
> anyone
> >with the NAN books could have a look to see if there was any info. on who
> >the guy is e.g. his real name, general summary of the guy as a big noise
in
> >the NAN books.
>
> My guess would be Howling Coyote himself. "Howls under a moonless sky"
could
> be taken to mean he did the Ghost Dance, major magic when there was no
magic
> (Howls as in had a magical totem, Coyote, which howls, and moonless sky
> because everyone knows the moon is magical, and the bright moon rising in
> the night sky is like the rise in mana). He was definitely in the ghost
> dance, and he walked out on the NAN when they constantlty fell to
> squabbling, now nobody knows where (or who) he is. Read Find Your Own
Truth
> by Robert Charette, the third Shadowrun novel, for a good mental picture
of
> Howling Coyote and how he likes to act like a crazy old man who isn't very
> good at magic, but knows Howling Coyote personally (think Yoda).

Though I do admit, the "guess" would be right as to who it actually might be
referring to, the phrase "Howls Under a Moonless Sky" means a lot of other
things that what you are suggesting. Please note, that in many of the
amerindian cultures of the american west, "Howling Coyote" is also a term
for a thief in the night ... he who is heard but not seen except for those
whom he has come to steal from. It is my understanding that Charette was a
good visualizationist (is that a real word?), but he overromanticized a
great deal of the "indian mentality" from what most of us here in the states
would refer to as "americanized mediasation of the truth" (good examples
would be Disney's "Pocahontas" and "Hercules"... things that bring the
animation departments of that company chills to this day).

Let me see, I know the Pima and Hopi have other references with regards to
the Moon. It is the pale warrior who gives his blessing to those alone in
the dark by shining a soft light for their feet to tread upon. I also know
that the moon is believed to be the source of the silver that dots the
daytime sky, and gilds (my word, there is no good translation to it in fact)
the clouds at night with his presence.

"Moonless Sky" is also a term meaning a time of darkness, which *might* mean
a period of no-magic, but in truth is more likely to mean/have better
bearing upon the actions of the time period in Shadowrun with regards to the
indian relocation camps and the problems as they were arising at the time.
This might then make for a good relationship to the name "Howling Coyote",
as he was indeed the thief who could only be seen by those he came to steal
from... or in this case, steal away...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry (Webmaster)
Hoosier Hacker House (www.hoosierhackerhouse.com)
Message no. 8
From: Wagemage wagemage@**.rr.com
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 09:59:04 -0400
>>The question is, does anyone know who this guy is? The major clue to his

>My guess would be Howling Coyote himself. "Howls under a moonless sky"
could
>be taken to mean he did the Ghost Dance, major magic when there was no
magic
>(Howls as in had a magical totem, Coyote, which howls, and moonless sky
>because everyone knows the moon is magical, and the bright moon rising in
>the night sky is like the rise in mana). He was definitely in the ghost
>dance, and he walked out on the NAN when they constantlty fell to
>squabbling, now nobody knows where (or who) he is. Read Find Your Own Truth
>by Robert Charette, the third Shadowrun novel, for a good mental picture of
>Howling Coyote and how he likes to act like a crazy old man who isn't very
>good at magic, but knows Howling Coyote personally (think Yoda).

I remember HC being a bit out there, but he never struck me as a Nazi.
I really don't think Fasa had anyone in mind when they wrote that. He
could be anyone. The only people anyone remembers from that time are Howling
Coyote and Thunder Tyee both of whom are dead, vanished or both.

Or wait....maybe the Loon is really Howling Coyote who was actually a
horror that crossed over during a mana spike and is trying to bring back his
buddies so they can have a luau with the immortal elves.
Everything isn't a MAJOR conspiracy at Fasa.
Message no. 9
From: DemonPenta@***.com DemonPenta@***.com
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 10:05:09 EDT
In a message dated 09/10/2000 1:51:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
neojudas@******************.com writes:

<< (good examples
would be Disney's "Pocahontas" and "Hercules"... things that bring
the
animation departments of that company chills to this day >>

They do?
Message no. 10
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 12:55:49 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Wagemage <wagemage@**.rr.com>
> Or wait....maybe the Loon is really Howling Coyote who was actually a
> horror that crossed over during a mana spike and is trying to bring back
his
> buddies so they can have a luau with the immortal elves.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! Brilliant man, just freakin' brilliant!

-- Josh
Message no. 11
From: Sinabian@***.com Sinabian@***.com
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:48:20 EDT
In a message dated 9/9/00 10:56:19 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
mataxes@****.net writes:

<< 2) According to the novel "Find Your Own Truth" Daniel Howling Coyote
died
in the second Ghost Dance. >>


Is it not possible that he faked his own death?
Message no. 12
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 17:35:21 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: <Sinabian@***.com>
> << 2) According to the novel "Find Your Own Truth" Daniel Howling
Coyote
died
> in the second Ghost Dance. >>
>
> Is it not possible that he faked his own death?

Highly unlikely, based on the description presented in the novel. His death
isn't something that happens "off-screen", and he is one of the people that
dies to power the magic of the Dance. So as far as official continuiy goes,
I don't think he's still kicking around.

That said, if you want him to have faked his death and be one of the folks
behind whatever threat it is we're talking about (I forget offhand) than
that's fine -- it is your game, after all. Just keep in mind there is
nothing official that I have been able to uncover that supports that
conclusion, and I would say that most other folks who've chimed in on this
would probably agree with me.

-- Josh
Message no. 13
From: .stefan stefan@*****.org
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:09:28 +0200
i deleted the original mail silly me but it was metioning the "loon" and if
i'm not misstaken isn't there a racist nut mage/shamen in Steelrain that is
somewhat hardcore, can't recall know if he dies or not but it might be some
pieces of info in there for the inquisitive mind.

.stefan


------------------------------------------------------------------------
"frag you and the datastream you came on!" - sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... email ....................................... stefan@*****.org ...
... homepage .................................. http://litbo.org/ ...
... icq ................................................... 793828 ...
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Message no. 14
From: Herc airwisp@******************.com
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:25:13 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Harrison" <mataxes@****.net>
> > Is it not possible that he faked his own
death?
>
> Highly unlikely, based on the description
presented in the novel. His death
> isn't something that happens "off-screen", and
he is one of the people that
> dies to power the magic of the Dance. So as far
as official continuiy goes,
> I don't think he's still kicking around.
>
> That said, if you want him to have faked his
death and be one of the folks
> behind whatever threat it is we're talking about
(I forget offhand) than
> that's fine -- it is your game, after all. Just
keep in mind there is
> nothing official that I have been able to
uncover that supports that
> conclusion, and I would say that most other
folks who've chimed in on this
> would probably agree with me.

However, there is something far more evil and
twisted that could happen also.

In the Secrets of Power (I may be wrong, it's been
a while) he is killed by Spider while in the
metaplanes, confronting here in a martyr maneuver
to buy some time for the main hero to do what
needs to be done (she quite literally kicked the
dog around).

I would like to point out that a totem is
practically a god for all intents and purposes.
Spider could have chosen to hold the spirit of Dan
Howling Coyote until some of her minions could
learn Cybermancy.

I can see Spider shamans being able to learn and
perform Cybermancy more easily just due to the
symbolism of their totem. If Spider can weave a
basket to hold the sun so that it shines upon the
world (Hopi mythology, IIRC) then she could easily
hold a spirit in her web until she is ready to
release it to the heavens.

A new or compatible body is either grown or
created (ever consider a homonculus???) for him
and then his spirit is planted therein.

She will have claimed Dan Howling Coyote for
herself.

Could make for an interesting plotline.

-Mike
SYSOP - Hoosier Hacker House (Herc)
http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com
Message no. 15
From: Paul Collins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: Threats Question
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:57:44 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: <Sinabian@***.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: Threats Question


> In a message dated 9/9/00 10:56:19 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> mataxes@****.net writes:
>
> << 2) According to the novel "Find Your Own Truth" Daniel Howling
Coyote
died
> in the second Ghost Dance. >>
>
>
> Is it not possible that he faked his own death?
>

>From memory, Sam knew intimatly who died during the dance. and I thought it
was Sam who was shown knowing of Howling Coyote's death, but I'd have to
check the book to be sure.

Annachie

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