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Message no. 1
From: Eric Lemme e-lemme@***.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Thunderbolts: How you might get them.
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:21:19 -0500
It seems to my that there would ample opportunity to aquire a
thunderbolt depend on the skill and resources available to the runners.

If you look at the thing as one big puzzle.

you could steal it from the factory

you could steal it from the shipping company

you could steal it from a lone star cop assuming they carry them all the
time.

In each situation you could cover your self with a number of different
skills. If you were really clever you could ever set up your enemies to
take the fall for the theft. A good decker could even hide the fact
that a theft ever occured.

I do have a question for all you gms out there. what would you do if
your players had a construction guru and said they were just going to
build their own thunderbolts. What skills would you say are neccessary
and how difficult would you make the rolls?

Eric
Message no. 2
From: Dark Steel seattle2052@*******.com
Subject: Thunderbolts: How you might get them.
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:49:54 PDT
>I do have a question for all you gms out there. what would you do if
>your players had a construction guru and said they were just going to
>build their own thunderbolts. What skills would you say are neccessary
>and how difficult would you make the rolls?
>
>Eric
>

I would require a massive list of skills such as...
(B/R) Pistol
Engineering (Specialization in Mechanical)
Metalurgy
Physics
Metal Manufacture
Metal Machinning


As you can tell, I expand on the standard skills list.

The roll would be relatively easy if all skills are presant, say at 6.
But, should any skill be missing a +4 modifier would be added for each skill
missing, with a minimum of 2 skills required for the project and 2 successes
at least to succeed in building somthing that won't blow up right away.


Dark Steel
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Dig him up and shake his hand, appriciate the man....."

-They Might Be Giants


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Message no. 3
From: Eric Lemme e-lemme@***.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Thunderbolts: How you might get them.
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:08:45 -0500
Dark Steel wrote:
>
> >I do have a question for all you gms out there. what would you do if
> >your players had a construction guru and said they were just going to
> >build their own thunderbolts. What skills would you say are neccessary
> >and how difficult would you make the rolls?
> >
> >Eric
> >
>
> I would require a massive list of skills such as...
> (B/R) Pistol
> Engineering (Specialization in Mechanical)
> Metalurgy
> Physics
> Metal Manufacture
> Metal Machinning
>
> As you can tell, I expand on the standard skills list.
>
> The roll would be relatively easy if all skills are presant, say at 6.
> But, should any skill be missing a +4 modifier would be added for each skill
> missing, with a minimum of 2 skills required for the project and 2 successes
> at least to succeed in building somthing that won't blow up right away.
>
> Dark Steel

WoW, do you let your players build anything :) That seems like alot of
skills for a game that doent really allow you to have many.

Do you consider all the skills except the (B/R) pistols knowledge
skills?
Message no. 4
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Thunderbolts: How you might get them.
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 02:01:38 EDT
In a message dated 8/23/1999 10:08:42 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
e-lemme@***.cso.uiuc.edu writes:

> > I would require a massive list of skills such as...
> > (B/R) Pistol
> > Engineering (Specialization in Mechanical)
> > Metalurgy
> > Physics
> > Metal Manufacture
> > Metal Machinning
> >
> > As you can tell, I expand on the standard skills list.
> >
> > The roll would be relatively easy if all skills are presant, say at 6.
> > But, should any skill be missing a +4 modifier would be added for each
> skill
> > missing, with a minimum of 2 skills required for the project and 2
> successes
> > at least to succeed in building somthing that won't blow up right away.
> >
> > Dark Steel
>
> WoW, do you let your players build anything :) That seems like alot of
> skills for a game that doent really allow you to have many.

Yes, he does doesn't he. Especially considered that several of them could
ALL fall under Pistols (B/R) directly. Note the "B" is for "Build"
here. I
can honestly say though that "Machining" is not something I had ever
considered as a skill given the fact that operating a given device is usually
put into association with the advances in the skill knowledge/level itself.

> Do you consider all the skills except the (B/R) pistols knowledge
> skills?

IMO, the majority of those skills would be "Knowledge" type, yes. I'm not
sure what would be really needed to do the construction/building of a
particular firearms. An engineers diagram/plan for sure, and the
shop/facility to build such. The actual frame/metal could probably be
aquired from somewhere with the right contacts (thus removing that
"metallurgy" section easily).

-K (Just wait folks...just wait.)
Message no. 5
From: Tarek Okail Tarek_Okail@**********.com
Subject: Thunderbolts: How you might get them.
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:36:46 -0400
Dark Steel--

>I would require a massive list of skills such as... <snip>

Don't forget the fact that in order to duplicate a Ruger
Thunderbolt they'd need a Ruger Thunderbolt to work from, or the plans
thereof...
This is a nice hook for a 'run. If the player wants to have
a Ruger Thunderbolt made for his character, without all the security
measures, make him go on a 'run to acquire the plans and specifications
from the Ruger factory.
Let's not forget the fact that they'll also need a machine shop
to make the firearm, and some specialized tools as well.

Incidentally, you wouldn't need Metallurgy; the Engineering
skill would cover knowledge of what materials would be appropriate.
If nothing else, there are "materials" books around that give the
properties of different metals and metal alloys.

Shadowmage
Message no. 6
From: Lars Ericson lericson@****.edu
Subject: Thunderbolts: How you might get them.
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:24:17 -0500
Eric Lemme wrote:

> I do have a question for all you gms out there. what would you do if
> your players had a construction guru and said they were just going to
> build their own thunderbolts. What skills would you say are neccessary
> and how difficult would you make the rolls?

In my game Pistols (B/R) would be the only skill needed to physically
build it. However without exact plans, it would require Gunsmithing to
make the design and Metallurgy to use the right materials. The big
kicker would be that with the resources and time a single person has, it
would take a long time to design and build.

One thing that has been overlooked or not mentioned (AFAIK) is that the
Thunderbolt is ver unique and breakthrough design. Burst fire pistols
have been around for awhile, but only fire a single burst as a Complex
Action and have significant recoil (+2 for the Savalette). The fact that
a burst heavy pistol of this quality has just come on the scene suggests
that it took many years and thousands of manhours to design, test,
redesign, retest, and finally produce. That's the big advantage
corporations have over a single person even if that person has a
facility at their disposal.


--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Lars Ericson: Professional Vagabond
Smalley Research Group, Rice University
E-Mail: lericson@****.edu
WWW: http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~lericson/

Life is like a Wankel Engine. In between the emptiness of boredom and
despair, and the compression of stress in one's life, there's that one
spark of enjoyment that keeps you going.
Message no. 7
From: Iridios iridios@*********.com
Subject: Thunderbolts: How you might get them.
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:36:46 -0400
Lars Ericson wrote:
>
> Eric Lemme wrote:
>
> > I do have a question for all you gms out there. what would you do if
> > your players had a construction guru and said they were just going to
> > build their own thunderbolts. What skills would you say are neccessary
> > and how difficult would you make the rolls?
>
> In my game Pistols (B/R) would be the only skill needed to physically
> build it. However without exact plans, it would require Gunsmithing to
> make the design and Metallurgy to use the right materials. The big
> kicker would be that with the resources and time a single person has, it
> would take a long time to design and build.

Ok. I think it's time to put my 2¥ in. Although I do not enjoy the
luxury of running or playing in a game of SR at this point in time,
I'd make the following ruling.

Pistols (b/r) only if you have the parts (already manufactured) and
the plans (and probably a toolkit).

Without the parts, you would need pistols (b/r), and manufacturing
(which IMO includes machinning and etc.) as well as a complete set of
plans.

Without the plans, pistols (b/r), manufacturing, engineering and a
detailed set of specs (preferably the ones Ruger got).

Now here is the tricky part. The engineering skill roll would be next
to impossible by itself, but if a separate physics skill were
available (i.e. the character has it). I would reduce the target to a
high difficult.

--
Iridios
"Accept what you cannot avoid,
Avoid what you cannot accept."
Message no. 8
From: Ken Ken@********.com
Subject: Thunderbolts: How you might get them.
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:09:41 -0400
> It seems to my that there would ample opportunity to aquire a
> thunderbolt depend on the skill and resources available to the runners.
>
> If you look at the thing as one big puzzle.
>
> you could steal it from the factory
>
> you could steal it from the shipping company
>
> you could steal it from a lone star cop assuming they carry them all the
> time.
>
> In each situation you could cover your self with a number of different
> skills. If you were really clever you could ever set up your enemies to
> take the fall for the theft. A good decker could even hide the fact
> that a theft ever occured.
>
> I do have a question for all you gms out there. what would you do if
> your players had a construction guru and said they were just going to
> build their own thunderbolts. What skills would you say are neccessary
> and how difficult would you make the rolls?

Wouldn't there be a black market for such items...Yes, not very easy to get
a hold of but not impossible. Maybe your fixer has a contact at the factory
or some false...or legitimate...credentials that would enable him to buy
such a thing. Surely he isn't going to get you some piece of artillery and
then give it away without getting rid of any serial numbers on the device.

I would imagine that B/W heavy weapons would be required to make it. Not
too much trouble there. The trick is WHERE you would make it. I wouldn't
imagine you could walk into any machine shop and fabricate a weapon of that
caliber (no pun intended....really). Do it at home? Where do you live? I
wouldn't make the skill impossible to have without heavy specialization. I
would place all the difficulty on where such a thing would be made

Ken
Message no. 9
From: Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject: Thunderbolts: How you might get them.
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:37:26 -0400
Shadowmage and Dark Steel wrote:
> >I would require a massive list of skills such as... <snip>
>
> Don't forget the fact that in order to duplicate a Ruger
> Thunderbolt they'd need a Ruger Thunderbolt to work from, or the plans
> thereof...
> This is a nice hook for a 'run. If the player wants to have
> a Ruger Thunderbolt made for his character, without all the security
> measures, make him go on a 'run to acquire the plans and specifications
> from the Ruger factory.
> Let's not forget the fact that they'll also need a machine shop
> to make the firearm, and some specialized tools as well.

For all of the grief and hoops they would have to suffer and leap through,
perhaps their efforts would be better spent on modifying a Savalette
Guardian to increase the firing rate (though I won't let someone do it,
munchkin reasons). The gun raises fewer eyebrows than the Ruger and is
"almost" where they want to be.

;)

Smilin' Jack
Message no. 10
From: Dark Steel seattle2052@*******.com
Subject: Thunderbolts: How you might get them.
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:36:58 PDT
>WoW, do you let your players build anything :) That seems like alot of
>skills for a game that doent really allow you to have many.
>
>Do you consider all the skills except the (B/R) pistols knowledge
>skills?
>
Yeah I let them build things, i just don't let the newbies do it;-)

Aside from B/R Pistols, machinning is also an active but the rest are
knowledge.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_


"Meet James Ensor, Belgium's favorite painter,

Dig him up and shake his hand, appriciate the man....."

-They Might Be Giants


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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