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Message no. 1
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:26:41 -0400
Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
In them thar' hills!


















OK, here's my latest Horror Conspiracy I've been dreaming up.
Anyone who has the ED Horrors book, have you read the entry for the
Artificer?
He's the beast that makes shiny metal traps for dungeon crawlers.

Here's my take on that for the world of SR 2058.

Artificer HAS managed to surive into today's modern world.
He tried at first to simply continue with his underground traps by placing
them in the sewers, but there just wasn't enough activity below the earth
any more to gain the pain energy he needs to survive.

So he's a modern kinda guy, he starts looking for another area of the world
where bold parties of adventurers are still going - preferably one with a
little technology he can subvert, and use to wreak havoc and harvest pain,
oh, and if he could horror mark a few survivors to lure others back, well,
that would be just swell!

This Internet thing looks promising ...

So he looks around in the early 20XX's and he finds a worldwide labyrinth
of technological mazes, just teeming with traffic, unfortunately, there
aren't really any people in this "Internet" yet, so he infiltrates the
Govt. and helps with the development of Echo Mirage, and the first
cyberdecks, which allow people to actually move their sensorium into the
matrix, allowing them to FEEL PAIN online!

At last, something he can feed on!

The tale gets better, he manages to get this whole group (Echo Mirage)
working on his agenda, they bring in more deckers and the team grows - then
they find out exactly what Artificer's plan is and they turn on him.

That virus thing that EM was supposedly attacking to stop the Crash?
That was EM attempting to destroy Artificer.
Why else would so many members of EM have gone insane and died in the
attack?
Of course their death energy gave Artificer a boost of Karma, but he was
still in trouble, so he allowed the EM deckers to think they had defeated
him.
He then moved his essence into a suitable host body, where he could hide.

Who is that host body?
Someone with enough decking skills to pull off perhaps the most intricate
stock/computer maneuver in SR history.
Someone who since the possession has gone on to create a huge multinational
corp that seems to specialize in creating new wonderful technilogical items
. many of which create an immense amount of pain, like weapons, etc.

Hmmm ... Does Damien Knight sound like a possibility? :-)
<EGMGrin><EGMLOLOverAndOver>

So now what is Artificer busy doing?
Well, he needs another group of Acolytes, in case anyone should discover
his plan again, and move to destroy Knight.

So he's founded this almost cult following of children who seem to worship
the Matrix itself.
He has given the powers unlike anything else in the Matrix.

Who? The Otaku!

All this scheming is simply his way of strengthening his hold on the world,
gaining the pain he exists on, and slowly accumulating enough power to
fully manifest in this world, and ravage it before any of the other horrors
arrive.

So, what do you think?
Sure it's wacky, but so am I! :-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Fire and T_ts! Fire and T_ts! All my favorite things!" - Tinner and Bull
Message no. 2
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 12:37:40 -0500
At 01:26 PM 5/1/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner whispered:
>Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
>So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
>!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
>In them thar' hills!
>
>
>
>
>

I'm glad I'm not playing in your campaign.

Evil, you're just evil! Keep up the good work.


-Thomas Deeny
Over 3,400 people have partied at http://telltale.hart.org since Jan 6th!
The Digital Mage's archive: http://telltale.hart.org/digitalmage/intro.html

"This is turning into another one of those Tick things, isn't it?
-Arthur
Message no. 3
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:45:21 -0400
[ snip of Tinner's Paranoid Horrot theories ]

Well, that is just too damn cool.

Later-

Duncan
Berek Thunderfist, Wolf Lord of the Blackmane Company
Tech Priest in Training
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
Message no. 4
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 10:43:12 -0700
----------
> From: Steven A. Tinner <bluewizard@*****.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
> Date: Thursday, May 01, 1997 10:26 AM
>
> Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
> So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
> !!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
> In them thar' hills!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> All this scheming is simply his way of strengthening his hold on the
world,
> gaining the pain he exists on, and slowly accumulating enough power to
> fully manifest in this world, and ravage it before any of the other
horrors
> arrive.
>
> So, what do you think?
> Sure it's wacky, but so am I! :-)

<SHUDDER>

Pardon me whilst I go into the fetal position.

-Caric

"One cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
-Albert Einstein
Message no. 5
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 09:45:37 -0800
At 13:26 5/1/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>So he looks around in the early 20XX's and he finds a worldwide labyrinth
>of technological mazes, just teeming with traffic, unfortunately, there
>aren't really any people in this "Internet" yet, so he infiltrates the
>Govt. and helps with the development of Echo Mirage, and the first
>cyberdecks, which allow people to actually move their sensorium into the
>matrix, allowing them to FEEL PAIN online!
>
>At last, something he can feed on!

This sounds plausible...

>Who is that host body?
>Someone with enough decking skills to pull off perhaps the most intricate
>stock/computer maneuver in SR history.
...
>Hmmm ... Does Damien Knight sound like a possibility? :-)
><EGMGrin><EGMLOLOverAndOver>

So why is Damien Knight instrumental in developing the tools that're
being used to beat back the Bugs-- and could be used against the Horrors?
Perhaps Artificer wants to keep the *other* Horrors out so he has the
whole world to torture slowly on his own.

>So now what is Artificer busy doing?

Investing in BTL's, I bet. BTL's with just the right resonance for him to
feed on when people go through withdrawal...

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
Message no. 6
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:15:43 -0500
At 01:26 PM 5/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
Add Mike to that list. :)
>So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
>!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
>In them thar' hills!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>OK, here's my latest Horror Conspiracy I've been dreaming up.
>Anyone who has the ED Horrors book, have you read the entry for the
>Artificer?
>He's the beast that makes shiny metal traps for dungeon crawlers.

Wow that's cool. :) Did anyone else watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer last
night? It was about a demon (Horror) that was trapped in a book a long
time ago (ED) that was scanned in. :) And then went out over the net. It
was kinda cool. Then they had a technopagan(technoshamn) perform a ritual
to get it out. The thing, Mooluck(sp?) the Corrupter wanted a body, so he
had some computer geeks (otaku) build him a body.
I thought it was a pretty cool show, and I think I'm going to incorparate
it into my campaign.

Hate to tack it onto your post, but what do people think about clones. I'm
thinking about making one. I figured you could grow it fast enough, to
have a couple of you. Just a thought for an evil arch-nemesis. You know
they kill him, think he's dead, and he shows up again at the most
inoprotune times.

-=Court


/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When you're following an angel
Does it mean you have to throw your body off a building?
Somewhere they're meeting on a pinhead
Calling you an angel, calling you the nicest things
-They Might Be Giants

*****************************************************************************/
Message no. 7
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 14:25:26 -0400
> > Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
> > So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
> > !!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
> > In them thar' hills!

> > So, what do you think?
> > Sure it's wacky, but so am I! :-)
>
> <SHUDDER>
>
> Pardon me whilst I go into the fetal position.
>
> -Caric

Hee-hee!
It works! It works!
I'm so happy I can hardly contain myself! :-)
<EGMLOLOAO>

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Fire and T_ts! Fire and T_ts! All my favorite things!" - Tinner and Bull
Message no. 8
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 11:19:45 -0700
| > <SHUDDER>
| >
| > Pardon me whilst I go into the fetal position.
| >
| > -Caric
|
| Hee-hee!
| It works! It works!
| I'm so happy I can hardly contain myself! :-)
| <EGMLOLOAO>

/thumbsuck off

you are a big meanie bo beanie

/thumbsuck on

-Caric

"One cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
-Albert Einstein
Message no. 9
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B -Reply
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 14:59:20 -0500
SPOILERS, don't read, Bull.


























Fascinating! Bravo! unfortunately, I see one
flaw: Mr. Knight and the Big D were friendly (see
his will) and a great dragon could certainly
detect horror influence. If you can come up
with an explanation for why Big D didn't object or
notice or whatever, then I'm ready to give this
paranoid theory my blessing.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 10
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B -Reply
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:10:24 -0600
Mike Elkins wrote:
|
| SPOILERS, don't read, Bull.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Fascinating! Bravo! unfortunately, I see one
| flaw: Mr. Knight and the Big D were friendly (see
| his will) and a great dragon could certainly
| detect horror influence. If you can come up
| with an explanation for why Big D didn't object or
| notice or whatever, then I'm ready to give this
| paranoid theory my blessing.

Who know's what goes on in a dragon's mind?

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 11
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:11:17 -0600
Caric wrote:
|
| > From: Steven A. Tinner <bluewizard@*****.COM>
| >
| > So, what do you think?
| > Sure it's wacky, but so am I! :-)
|
| <SHUDDER>
|
| Pardon me whilst I go into the fetal position.

Move over and make some room for me.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 12
From: Craig Wilhelm <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:31:50 -0400
Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>
> Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
> So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
> !!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
> In them thar' hills!








> So, what do you think?
> Sure it's wacky, but so am I! :-)

BWAHAHA! I kinda like that! But leave my cute little Otaku alone!

Craig

--

Reality is nothing but a refuge for those who can't handle role-playing.

-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d? s+:+ a-- C++ !U--- !P !L- !E-- W++ N++
o K- w++ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE+++ Y+ PGP- t-
5+++ X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+ G e++ h* r+ y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
Message no. 13
From: Craig Wilhelm <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B -Reply
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:40:04 -0400
Mike Elkins wrote:
>
> SPOILERS, don't read, Bull.














> Fascinating! Bravo! unfortunately, I see one
> flaw: Mr. Knight and the Big D were friendly (see
> his will) and a great dragon could certainly
> detect horror influence. If you can come up
> with an explanation for why Big D didn't object or
> notice or whatever, then I'm ready to give this
> paranoid theory my blessing.

Good point about that, hmm...

Well, I'm just glad I don't use the whole Horror thing (but I like to
talk about it). I think (meta-)Humanity can come up with enough evil all
by itself.

Craig

--

Reality is nothing but a refuge for those who can't handle role-playing.

-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d? s+:+ a-- C++ !U--- !P !L- !E-- W++ N++
o K- w++ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE+++ Y+ PGP- t-
5+++ X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+ G e++ h* r+ y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
Message no. 14
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 21:40:35 +-200
At 13:26 5/1/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>SPOILERS!!!
>
>
>
>*SNIP*
>So he looks around in the early 20XX's and he finds a worldwide labyrinth
>of technological mazes, just teeming with traffic, unfortunately, there
>aren't really any people in this "Internet" yet, so he infiltrates the
>Govt. and helps with the development of Echo Mirage, and the first
>cyberdecks, which allow people to actually move their sensorium into the
>matrix, allowing them to FEEL PAIN online!
>
>Who is that host body?
>Someone with enough decking skills to pull off perhaps the most intricate
>stock/computer maneuver in SR history.
>Hmmm ... Does Damien Knight sound like a possibility? :-)
><EGMGrin><EGMLOLOverAndOver>
Interesting.. isn't security firms also into making security devices? PAINFUL
security devices? Isn't Damien head of one such? One of the largest?
(Rethorical questions).

Problem: If Knight Errant had an agenda of inflicting as much pain as possible,
it would be known and frowned upon. Unless it was just coming to fruition
about.. now, with the new Permissible Violence act. (What, you haven't heard
of it? Oh, you must've missed it. Someone lobbied for it, you know.. Damien
something, I think it was.).
Message no. 15
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 12:39:16 -0700
| >SPOILERS!!!
| >
| >
| >
| >*SNIP*


Whoa people be careful...we need to make sure the spoilers are long enough
to hide the subject from prying bovine eyes.


-Caric

"One cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
-Albert Einstein
Message no. 16
From: Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 16:59:15 -0400
Steven A. Tinner enlightened us with these words of wisdom:
>Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
Bull, if you're in this, yer gonna die! :)

Actually, I seem to be alone in _wishing_ I was in this campaign....no one
Around here has any clue about world background when compared to me, so I
can't into fun, twisted evil campaigns like this one...

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 17
From: James Meiers <polbdm@***.UNM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:53:58 -0600
On Thu, 1 May 1997, Max Rible wrote:

> At 13:26 5/1/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
> >!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Hmmm ... Does Damien Knight sound like a possibility? :-)
> ><EGMGrin><EGMLOLOverAndOver>
>
> So why is Damien Knight instrumental in developing the tools that're
> being used to beat back the Bugs-- and could be used against the Horrors?
> Perhaps Artificer wants to keep the *other* Horrors out so he has the
> whole world to torture slowly on his own.

Well, the Horrors probabaly consider the Bugs inferior to them,
and since the Bugs want the world, and are willing to keep the Horrors
out, Artificer is working to take them out of the equation so they don't
stop the Scourge from happening.

However, I really have a problem with Knight being possessed
becasue of his close ties to Dunkelzahn. Lucien Cross on the other hand,
runs a mini-Ares type corp and worked with Knight.



*** James Meiers (Specter) ***
http://www.arc.unm.edu/~james --> Homepage
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2942/sr_mil.html
--> Shadowrun Military Site
Message no. 18
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 18:01:48 EDT
On Thu, 1 May 1997 13:26:41 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
>Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)

Hey, Bull? You really _don't_ want to know about this.

>So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
>!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
>In them thar' hills!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>OK, here's my latest Horror Conspiracy I've been dreaming up.

Another one?

>Anyone who has the ED Horrors book, have you read the entry for the
>Artificer?

Him, I'd heard of. He was originally a Metal Elemental (ED equiv. to
Earth, I'm told). He was then corrupted, and became so twisted/toxic that
he became a horror. Or that's what I'd heard.

>He's the beast that makes shiny metal traps for dungeon crawlers.

I bet he catches magpies, too:)

>Here's my take on that for the world of SR 2058.
>
>Artificer HAS managed to surive into today's modern world.
>He tried at first to simply continue with his underground traps by
placing
>them in the sewers, but there just wasn't enough activity below the
earth
>any more to gain the pain energy he needs to survive.

So, did he try the Seattle underground? A slightly limited area, perhaps,
but there should be more than enough activity:) Oh, wait. Your group runs
out of Cleveland. Never mind.

>So he's a modern kinda guy, he starts looking for another area of the
world
>where bold parties of adventurers are still going - preferably one with
a
>little technology he can subvert, and use to wreak havoc and harvest
pain,
>oh, and if he could horror mark a few survivors to lure others back,
well,
>that would be just swell!

Why can I hear this coming...

>This Internet thing looks promising ...

Yup.

>So he looks around in the early 20XX's and he finds a worldwide
labyrinth
>of technological mazes, just teeming with traffic, unfortunately, there
>aren't really any people in this "Internet" yet, so he infiltrates the
>Govt. and helps with the development of Echo Mirage, and the first
>cyberdecks, which allow people to actually move their sensorium into the
>matrix, allowing them to FEEL PAIN online!

Okay, here's where I'm becoming to have problems with the theory...I'd be
more than willing to believe that he was behind the virus (which was one
of the reasons that cyberdecks were originally designed, IIRC), but I
really think that Echo Mirage was not linked to the Horrors...I'd sooner
believe that the IE (Brightlight, most likely) were behind Echo Mirage
because they knew the Artificer was behind the virus...'course, I won't
say that it couldn't possibly have been all a part of Artificer's plan to
bring about the creation of such technology, I just don't see him being
directly involved with the creation of Echo Mirage.

>At last, something he can feed on!

Not nice, you know that?

>The tale gets better, he manages to get this whole group (Echo Mirage)
>working on his agenda, they bring in more deckers and the team grows -
then
>they find out exactly what Artificer's plan is and they turn on him.

Again, I don't see the Artificer being behind Echo Mirage, not directly
anyway.

>That virus thing that EM was supposedly attacking to stop the Crash?
>That was EM attempting to destroy Artificer.
>Why else would so many members of EM have gone insane and died in the
attack?

What if the Artificer _was_ the virus? This would explain the
insanity/death thing.

>Of course their death energy gave Artificer a boost of Karma, but he was
>still in trouble, so he allowed the EM deckers to think they had
defeated
>him.

Works for me:) Question of course, is this: can you even _kill_ a Horror
in the Matrix?

>He then moved his essence into a suitable host body, where he could
hide.
>
>Who is that host body?

Perhaps one of the EM deckers, a few simply disappeared, IIRC.

>Someone with enough decking skills to pull off perhaps the most
intricate
>stock/computer maneuver in SR history.
>Someone who since the possession has gone on to create a huge
multinational
>corp that seems to specialize in creating new wonderful technilogical
items
>. many of which create an immense amount of pain, like weapons, etc.

Aha! He's behind Aztechnology! :):) They make weapons, love to inflict
pain, etc, etc:) And we don't know exactly who is on the Azzie board.

>Hmmm ... Does Damien Knight sound like a possibility? :-)
><EGMGrin><EGMLOLOverAndOver>

Errrmmm...I dunno. If Damiem Knight is also a Horror's host, why would he
have bothered bringing in the space mage to deal with the Bug in "Hunter
and Prey"? Novels and fiction may not be canon as far as rules are
concerned, but they are canon as far as events in the SR world is
concerned.

>So now what is Artificer busy doing?

Making trouble, of course:) What else would such a thing be doing?

>Well, he needs another group of Acolytes, in case anyone should discover
>his plan again, and move to destroy Knight.
>
>So he's founded this almost cult following of children who seem to
worship
>the Matrix itself.
>He has given the powers unlike anything else in the Matrix.
>
>Who? The Otaku!

I like this idea even less. The Deep Resonance would appear to be some
sort of entity in the Matrix (as implied in the conversation between the
Laughing Man (Harlequinn) and Ambrose (I have no idea, but he's very old
and he's a Christian) in VR2.0), but the IE (some of them, anyway) also
appear to be aware of this and would probably have figured him out by
now, I would think.

>All this scheming is simply his way of strengthening his hold on the
world,
>gaining the pain he exists on, and slowly accumulating enough power to
>fully manifest in this world, and ravage it before any of the other
horrors
>arrive.

And what else would it be? ;)

>So, what do you think?

I think it's got a few holes in it, myself. But those, I've already
commented on.

>Sure it's wacky, but so am I! :-)

Wacky? Maybe. Sick? Yes, you are most definitely a _very_ sick puppy!

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, lobo1@****.com
let him prepare for war. canthros1@***.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 19
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:20:58 +1000
>
>
>
>
>
> > >!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> However, I really have a problem with Knight being possessed
> becasue of his close ties to Dunkelzahn. Lucien Cross on the other hand,
> runs a mini-Ares type corp and worked with Knight.

How about the fact that Dunkelzahn didn't know because of the horror's
careful planning or something, and then just when old Dunky starts to get
an inkling of what's going on, BOOM.... One dead Dragon.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 20
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:10:23 GMT
Max Rible writes

> At 13:26 5/1/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
> >!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> So why is Damien Knight instrumental in developing the tools that're
> being used to beat back the Bugs-- and could be used against the Horrors?
> Perhaps Artificer wants to keep the *other* Horrors out so he has the
> whole world to torture slowly on his own.

Ignoring Knight, the Horrors would be pretty much against the bugs
getting too entrenched, by Harlequins admission in HB 'when the time
comes they will eat all the bugs they can find' so bug control is in
thier interest, wouldn't want someone else eating the food first now
would they.

Mark
Message no. 21
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 08:30:25 -0500
Date: 1 May 97 Time: 16:59
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theori

TO: Brett Borger

> Actually, I seem to be alone in _wishing_ I was in this
> campaign....no one Around here has any clue about world background
> when compared to me, so I can't into fun, twisted evil campaigns
> like this one...

You're not alone. While the characters will very likely die or
worse, I see the possibility of a lot of fun doing it. :)

a chaoidh teabadaich,

Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch

That gal has got entirely too many brains to have an ass like that
-- Wade Garrett, from Roadhouse
Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:20:51 +0100
Steven A. Tinner said on 13:26/ 1 May 97...

> Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
> So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
> !!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
> In them thar' hills!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[snip Artificer stuff]
> All this scheming is simply his way of strengthening his hold on the world,
> gaining the pain he exists on, and slowly accumulating enough power to
> fully manifest in this world, and ravage it before any of the other horrors
> arrive.

It also explains Ares' attempt to kill off the bugs -- Artificer sees them
as a threat to him, because there' so many of them and he's more or less
alone...

> "Fire and T_ts! Fire and T_ts! All my favorite things!" - Tinner and Bull

I didn't know you could pronounce an underscore character? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know that that sounds dumb.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 23
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:51:10 GMT
"Steven A. Tinner" writes

> Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
Very slowly.....

> So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
> !!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
> In them thar' hills!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> OK, here's my latest Horror Conspiracy I've been dreaming up.
> Anyone who has the ED Horrors book, have you read the entry for the
> Artificer?
oh wonderful <grin>

> So he's a modern kinda guy, he starts looking for another area of the world
> where bold parties of adventurers are still going - preferably one with a
> little technology he can subvert, and use to wreak havoc and harvest pain,
> oh, and if he could horror mark a few survivors to lure others back, well,
> that would be just swell!
>
Ah yes the nice friendly GM's favourite the horror Mark :)

> Govt. and helps with the development of Echo Mirage, and the first
> cyberdecks, which allow people to actually move their sensorium into the
> matrix, allowing them to FEEL PAIN online!
>
> That virus thing that EM was supposedly attacking to stop the Crash?
> That was EM attempting to destroy Artificer.
Involvement here is interesting.

> Who is that host body?
> Hmmm ... Does Damien Knight sound like a possibility? :-)
> <EGMGrin><EGMLOLOverAndOver>
>
The problem here is Knight and Dunklezahn. Sorry i just don't believe
this one. Use another major figure involved in Echo mirage and you
might get places, the Dragon might not have spotted the interaction
of his friend with a horror but direct contact with their influence
would have been fatal for the Horror.

> Who? The Otaku!
Hitch again, Black madona, i think Leo would have caught onto this
one he has too much to do with them. (interaction at least)

> So, what do you think?
Certainly interesting, I have pointed out as have others a couple of
problems which you really need to address or you could get some
serious questions off any players that know the official line when
they find out but solutions should be easy enough

> Sure it's wacky, but so am I! :-)
>
Ah poor players, now just step into the parlour :)

Mark
Message no. 24
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:39:33 -0700
> So, what do you think?

I think your Evil...I love it...
--------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 25
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B -Reply
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 17:28:36 -0700
---Mike Elkins goofed and wrote:
>
> Double-Domed Mike
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Mike Elkins under the influence of a Camel Form spell?

:o)

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/


_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 26
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:02:21 -0500
At 06:20 PM 5/2/97 +1000, Ray & Tamara whispered:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > >!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> However, I really have a problem with Knight being possessed
>> becasue of his close ties to Dunkelzahn. Lucien Cross on the other hand,
>> runs a mini-Ares type corp and worked with Knight.
>
>How about the fact that Dunkelzahn didn't know because of the horror's
>careful planning or something, and then just when old Dunky starts to get
>an inkling of what's going on, BOOM.... One dead Dragon.
>
>Ray.

I'm just waiting for FASAMike to come back and post a "Dammit, you guessed
it" message. Then we'll see how many listmembers decide to hide under
Gurth's stairs.

<insert file="/emoticon_smiley">
:)



-Thomas Deeny
Visit http://telltale.hart.org - faster, stronger, better than before!

"... what character deserves to be left alone more at the end of the world
than that idiot Ash?"
-Bruce Campbell on the dropped ending for _Army of Darkness_
Message no. 27
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 17:30:38 -0700
---"Steven A. Tinner" wrote:
>
> Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
> So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
> !!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
> In them thar' hills!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> So, what do you think?
> Sure it's wacky, but so am I! :-)
>
> Steven A. Tinner

You are a GM after my own heart. <grin>

My only concern is how you'd explain the Big D being oblivious to it
all when he has such close ties to Knight...

Otherwise I love the whole plot line...

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 28
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:32:24 -0700
| ---"Steven A. Tinner" wrote:
| >
| > Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
| > So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
| > !!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
| > In them thar' hills!
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
<Loki waxed poetic>

| You are a GM after my own heart. <grin>

| My only concern is how you'd explain the Big D being oblivious to it
| all when he has such close ties to Knight...
|
| Otherwise I love the whole plot line...

Oh great Tinner now look what you have done...you better just hope I don't
run into you at GenCon. =)

J/K Bud I can handle anything Loki wants to throw my way. As long as they
are nice and fluffy and don't use guns or magic. ;-o

-Caric


What customer's say: "I have a dog and cat and i'm not computer literate
and my drive is broken and my computer beeps at me and I have a printer and
it ran out of ink..."

What I hear: "blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah drive
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah printer conflict blahblahblahblah"
Message no. 29
From: James Meiers <polbdm@***.UNM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:40:21 -0600
On Fri, 2 May 1997, Ray & Tamara wrote:

> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > However, I really have a problem with Knight being possessed
> > becasue of his close ties to Dunkelzahn. Lucien Cross on the other hand,
> > runs a mini-Ares type corp and worked with Knight.
>
> How about the fact that Dunkelzahn didn't know because of the horror's
> careful planning or something, and then just when old Dunky starts to get
> an inkling of what's going on, BOOM.... One dead Dragon.

Because I have a little more faith in the intelligence of a 10,000
year old Great Dragon whose spent most of his life fighting the Horrors
and their minions.



*** James Meiers (Specter) ***
http://www.arc.unm.edu/~james --> Homepage
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2942/sr_mil.html
--> Shadowrun Military Site
Message no. 30
From: "Mark E. Manhardt" <droopy@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:52:55 +0000
> From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
> Subject: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
> Hmmm ... Does Damien Knight sound like a possibility? :-)
> <EGMGrin><EGMLOLOverAndOver>

You had me till here. Mr. Knight is indeed much more than he seems
(just look at the company he keeps) but is obviously not connected to
Artificer in any way. (again, look at the company he keeps)

> So, what do you think?
> Sure it's wacky, but so am I! :-)

I liked it overall, but I would put a slightly different spin on it.
Perhaps he (it?) is the cause of the great crash. Echo Mirage was
trying to force him out of the matrix and succeeded, almost. He's
still out there is some dark corner (perhaps in a system offline)
just waiting for someone to stumble past to help him regain his
strength.

I have other theories about the matrix that I've already voiced here,
but I like this one as well.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 31
From: "Mark E. Manhardt" <droopy@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:52:55 +0000
> From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
> Subject: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B

> Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
> So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
> !!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
> In them thar' hills!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Wait....he's Bill Gates....It all makes sense now....windows and
all.......


--Droopy

droopy@**.net
Message no. 32
From: "Mark E. Manhardt" <droopy@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:52:55 +0000
> From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
> Organization: The Robert Gordon University
> Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B

> Ignoring Knight, the Horrors would be pretty much against the bugs
> getting too entrenched, by Harlequins admission in HB 'when the time
> comes they will eat all the bugs they can find' so bug control is in
> thier interest, wouldn't want someone else eating the food first now
> would they.

I think that was more a reference to the fact that the horrors will
physicly eat the invae as readily as they eat any other animal or
namegiver. Not all horrors feed on pain. Some eat rocks.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 33
From: "Mark E. Manhardt" <droopy@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:52:55 +0000
> careful planning or something, and then just when old Dunky starts to get
> an inkling of what's going on, BOOM.... One dead Dragon.

'e's only mostly dead. Don't ever forget it!


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 34
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 12:16:19 -0400
> On Fri, 2 May 1997, Ray & Tamara wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > How about the fact that Dunkelzahn didn't know because of the horror's
> > careful planning or something, and then just when old Dunky starts to
get
> > an inkling of what's going on, BOOM.... One dead Dragon.
>
> Because I have a little more faith in the intelligence of a
10,000
> year old Great Dragon whose spent most of his life fighting the Horrors
> and their minions.

How about a 10,000 year old great dragon living in a lower mana climate
whose mind is definately preoccupied with other things like an election,
and his TV career, and his theme park/island resort, and who has also been
warned by some of the other entities in his power level to keep his mouth
shut about such things or he will be killed? :-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Maintaining the very high metabolism rate they have ..."
Message no. 35
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 12:24:31 -0400
> > Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
> Very slowly.....
>
> > So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
> > !!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
> > In them thar' hills!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

OK, a lot of you have posted that there's no way Artificer could get too
close to Damien Knight, or Dunkelzhan without detection.

I'm not buying that one.
For starters, IMO, Knight is a powerful, albeit mundane individual. Without
any experience with Horrors, He'd never know what hit him.

Why has he got mages in space?
Maybe to learn how to destroy OTHER horrors, so Artificer can keep this
plane to himself?

As for the Big D, I'm not buying the old "Dragon's are infallible" routine.
Wasn't one of the big problems with the Horrors in ED the fact that they
could infiltrate into Kaer pretty much at will?
IIRC something like 50% of all the Kaers built did NOT work!

Obviously all the great Horror detection stuff designed in ED is NOT
flawless.

As for the Otaku being connected to Leonardo, and his detecting them.
Sorry, I think he's a pompous lout who wouldn't notice crap unless it hit
him in the face.
These EI's are far too big for their britches. :-)

Just my opinions, my world works one way, yours can work another.
Thanks for all the input! :-)

Steven A. Tinner - the jets fly backwards in my world.
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Maintaining the very high metabolism rate they have ..."
Message no. 36
From: James Meiers <polbdm@***.UNM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 13:47:08 -0600
On Sat, 3 May 1997, Steven A. Tinner wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> How about a 10,000 year old great dragon living in a lower mana climate
> whose mind is definately preoccupied with other things like an election,
> and his TV career, and his theme park/island resort, and who has also been
> warned by some of the other entities in his power level to keep his mouth
> shut about such things or he will be killed? :-)

If he can run an organzation like the one mentioned in
Dunkelzahn's Secrets, then he can tell if one of his closest associates is
Horror-possessed or marked. Especially knowing that he is on a hitlist,
and allowed the supposed Horror-possesee to pick the person who he, for
all intents and purposes, knew was going to assume the Presidency.



*** James Meiers (Specter) ***
http://www.arc.unm.edu/~james --> Homepage
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2942/sr_mil.html
--> Shadowrun Military Site
Message no. 37
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 18:08:43 +1000
Hey Droopy. Leave some spoiler space.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au

----------
> From: Mark E. Manhardt <droopy@**.NET>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
> Date: Saturday, 3 May 1997 04:52
>
> > From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
> > Organization: The Robert Gordon University
> > Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
>
> > Ignoring Knight, the Horrors would be pretty much against the bugs
> > getting too entrenched, by Harlequins admission in HB 'when the time
> > comes they will eat all the bugs they can find' so bug control is in
> > thier interest, wouldn't want someone else eating the food first now
> > would they.
>
> I think that was more a reference to the fact that the horrors will
> physicly eat the invae as readily as they eat any other animal or
> namegiver. Not all horrors feed on pain. Some eat rocks.
>
>
> --Droopy
> droopy@**.net
Message no. 38
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 18:07:37 +1000
> Spoilers
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > However, I really have a problem with Knight being possessed
> > > becasue of his close ties to Dunkelzahn. Lucien Cross on the other
hand,
> > > runs a mini-Ares type corp and worked with Knight.
> >
> > How about the fact that Dunkelzahn didn't know because of the horror's
> > careful planning or something, and then just when old Dunky starts to
get
> > an inkling of what's going on, BOOM.... One dead Dragon.
>
> Because I have a little more faith in the intelligence of a
10,000
> year old Great Dragon whose spent most of his life fighting the Horrors
> and their minions.

Sorry. I forgot my smiley.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 39
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:04:40 EDT
On Sat, 3 May 1997 12:16:19 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
>> On Fri, 2 May 1997, Ray & Tamara wrote:
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > How about the fact that Dunkelzahn didn't know because of the
horror's
>> > careful planning or something, and then just when old Dunky starts
to get
>> > an inkling of what's going on, BOOM.... One dead Dragon.
>>
>> Because I have a little more faith in the intelligence of a
10,000
>> year old Great Dragon whose spent most of his life fighting the
Horrors
>> and their minions.
>
>How about a 10,000 year old great dragon living in a lower mana climate
>whose mind is definately preoccupied with other things like an election,
>and his TV career, and his theme park/island resort, and who has also
>been warned by some of the other entities in his power level to keep his

>mouth shut about such things or he will be killed? :-)

I'm only taking a very wild stab here, but how much was the Big D
involved with as Darktooth during the Fourth World? I'm guessing he was
involved with enough to keep himself busy, between the Scourge, Immortal
politics, personal interests, etc. As busy as he was in the beginning of
the Sixth World, I don't see the Big D as one who'd sit idly by at any
time in his life. I'm guessing that if he could keep track of all those
things (remember, he had lots of people to delegate power to), he
wouldn't have had any more than normal trouble (as such things go)
detecting the Artifice-possessed Knight. Besides, Knight and Dunkelzahn
are the _good_ guys :)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, lobo1@****.com
let him prepare for war. canthros1@***.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 40
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:04:40 EDT
On Sat, 3 May 1997 12:24:31 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
>> > Bull, if you're reading this, yer gonna die! :-)
>> Very slowly.....
>>
>> > So stop ... no really dude, stop there's ...
>> > !!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
>> > In them thar' hills!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>OK, a lot of you have posted that there's no way Artificer could get too
>close to Damien Knight, or Dunkelzhan without detection.

Well, it's more that the Big D is very likely to have noticed the Enemy
in Knight's clothing due to close association with Knight and previous
experience with the Enemy. I'd sooner believe that the Big D himself was
Horror possessed and destroyed by the IE:) And that Knight is really God
Himself:):)

>I'm not buying that one.
>For starters, IMO, Knight is a powerful, albeit mundane individual.
Without
>any experience with Horrors, He'd never know what hit him.

Agreed. Knight (unless he's been getting serious tutelage from somewhere
that shall remain unnamed due to ludicrousness) would not have the
foggiest idea as to anything with the Horrors, the IE, or the Fourth
World in general.

>Why has he got mages in space?
>Maybe to learn how to destroy OTHER horrors, so Artificer can keep this
>plane to himself?

Only if the Horrors come from space, something not yet verified. But,
that doesn't explain why it was he called in the space mage to deal with
the Insect spirit that came after him in "Hunter and Prey"

>As for the Big D, I'm not buying the old "Dragon's are infallible"
routine.

D's not infallible, just very, very smart and very, very powerful. I'd
say he can make mistakes, I'd even say he's probably made a few. That is,
I wouldn't call announcing myself on world-wide broadcast TV where all of
my enemies can see, learn about and plot against me a good move. But
then, I'm not a dragon and presumably, they think differently than I do
(and I've never been good with strategy or politics anyway).

>Wasn't one of the big problems with the Horrors in ED the fact that they
>could infiltrate into Kaer pretty much at will?
>IIRC something like 50% of all the Kaers built did NOT work!

Wouldn't know, don't know much about ED. I think I remember hearing
something similar before, however.

>Obviously all the great Horror detection stuff designed in ED is NOT
>flawless.

Hey, nothing's perfect:) I thought the kaers were built to keep the
Horrors out, not detect them?

>As for the Otaku being connected to Leonardo, and his detecting them.
>Sorry, I think he's a pompous lout who wouldn't notice crap unless it
hit
>him in the face.

Such might be true, but then why would the actions that the otaku carry
out as missions for the Deep Resonance tend to be beneficial to mankind?
It could, presumably, be to prepare the world to be the Artificer's
private feeding ground, but who knows? Leo's not the only Immortal that
has had experience with the Otaku, though. Harlequinn and Ambrose (I
don't know exactly who Ambrose is) have, in fact a kid adopted by Ambrose
_became_ an otaku (or so it is implied).

>These EI's are far too big for their britches. :-)

Perhaps, but wouldn't the IE be prime people for detecting Horrors? I'd
say if a Horror can take over Damien Knight without alerting half the IE,
dragons and what have you, there may be one heck of a lot of them running
around.

>Just my opinions, my world works one way, yours can work another.

Yeah, the jets fly backward in your world:) In my world, it takes
something with VTOL capability for that:)

>Thanks for all the input! :-)

You're welcome! Enjoy some more:)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, lobo1@****.com
let him prepare for war. canthros1@***.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 41
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:45:36 -0400
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > How about the fact that Dunkelzahn didn't know because of the
> horror's
> >> > careful planning or something, and then just when old Dunky starts
> to get
> >> > an inkling of what's going on, BOOM.... One dead Dragon.
> >>
> >> Because I have a little more faith in the intelligence of a
> 10,000
> >> year old Great Dragon whose spent most of his life fighting the
> Horrors
> >> and their minions.
> >
> >How about a 10,000 year old great dragon living in a lower mana climate
> >whose mind is definately preoccupied with other things like an election,
> >and his TV career, and his theme park/island resort, and who has also
> >been warned by some of the other entities in his power level to keep his
>
> >mouth shut about such things or he will be killed? :-)
>
> Besides, Knight and Dunkelzahn are the _good_ guys :)

Hmm ... you seem to be operating under the mistaken impression that there
ARE good guys. :-)
This is CYBERPUNK fiction here.
It's not about good vs. evil.
It's about pain and style. :-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Maintaining the very high metabolism rate they have ..."
Message no. 42
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 07:32:22 EDT
On Sun, 4 May 1997 21:45:36 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
<snipping previous paranoid horror thread for small snippet of mine and
Tinner's:)>
>> Besides, Knight and Dunkelzahn are the _good_ guys :)
>
>Hmm ... you seem to be operating under the mistaken impression that
>there
>ARE good guys. :-)

Of course there are good guys! They're called Shadowrunners...oh, wait a
minute...uh...never mind:)

>This is CYBERPUNK fiction here.
>It's not about good vs. evil.
>It's about pain and style. :-)

I thought it was about the anti-hero. That would explain my mistaken
assumption. Well, never mind. I'll just go crawl back in my hole and pout
about being wrong.






Or maybe not:)

If it was only about pain and style, wouldn't we call it The World of
Darkness:)

--
-Canthros, who always thought werewolves were very cool.
If any man wishes peace, lobo1@****.com
let him prepare for war. canthros1@***.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 43
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tinner's Paranoid Horror Theories - Part 13B
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:05:11 -0400
> If it was only about pain and style, wouldn't we call it The World of
> Darkness:)

No,no, that's the one about angst and pathos. :-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"We could find a speck of dust and scribble down our life stories ..."

Further Reading

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