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From:	Richard Gaywood r.gaywood@**********.com
Subject:	Tir Na nOg spelling & Europe 2060
Date:	Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:02:49 -0000

Message no. 1 Gurth wrote:
> There's not all that much information, and the bits that do exist, well...
> let's just say that seemingly most people living in the areas described
> would rather see them written up differently. For example, I for one don't
> like the idea of destroying half of Europe for no apparent reason at all.

There is a reason! It's so FASA don't have to write as many sourcebooks :o)

> > Previous source books quotes will be greatly appreciated
> > (I've been playing SR since 1991 but I have yet to find
> > any decent material on Europe.
>
> There are three FASA-published books you can use: London Sourcebook,
> Germany Sourcebook, and Tir na nOg (I keep wondering why they capitalize
> the O...). Target: Smuggler Havens also has some data on Europe, mostly
> centered around the North Sea and the Baltic Sea, though.

According to a friend of my other half, who speaks some Irish and
fortuitously 'phoned just as I was reading this post, that's how it's
written in Irish. I've seen it written Tir nan Og, but that's apparantly a
common mistake by non-Irish speaking people. It means Land of the Young, and
was an old Celtic myth of a place where people never grow old. It's also
supposed to have accents on the "r" and "O", but I'm not sure what
(and
can't be bothered to type them in ASCII, either :o)

Anyway, don't think it has that much Eurowar stuff in it; better off with
Germany/London books, and they're not exactly overflowing with info. Didn't
the history chapter in SR2 have a few paragraphs on the Euro wars? I'll dig
it out if no-one else has a copy handy...

> > Which were the major Euro Wars and who participated?
>
> Your guess is as good as anyone else's. You can deduce some stuff from the
> Germany Sourcebook, I believe, but there are too many gray areas here.
> Your easiest option is probably to take the history from Twilight: 2000,
> move all the dates in it about 35 years into the future, and leave out the
> nuclear weapons...

Good call :o)

> > Underworld specifics & new players?
>
> No idea.

Presumably some Mafia in southern Europe?

Course, the upside of FASA never detailing it is that you get a free hand.
Don't think they've got any plans to fill this in anytime soon. Mind you,
they left it years and years before writing any information at all about the
home of most of the world's megas (Japan), so don't bet on it...

-=R=-
http://www.clmconsulting.co.uk
ICQ: 66545073
UT ngStats: RichBeard

From:	Arclight arclight@*********.de
Subject:	Tir Na nOg spelling & Europe 2060
Date:	Wed, 29 Mar 2000 02:42:16 +0200

Message no. 2 And finally, Richard Gaywood expressed himself by writing:

<snip>

> Course, the upside of FASA never detailing it is that you get a
> free hand. Don't think they've got any plans to fill this in
> anytime soon. Mind you, they left it years and years before
> writing any information at all about the home of most of the
> world's megas (Japan), so don't bet on it...

I have to disagree. I would give an arm or leg for some
info on the state governments of the bigger countries, more
detailed info on the megacorps (which means one sourcebook for
_each_ mega) and the other big players around. For now, there's
almost nothing official around describing the political situation,
which _has_ an impact on the things going on, even with the mega-
corporation... but maybe I only lack the right books :)

--
arclight
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From:	Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject:	Tir Na nOg spelling & Europe 2060
Date:	Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:34:05 -0500

Message no. 3 > It's also
> supposed to have accents on the "r" and "O", but I'm not sure
what (and
> can't be bothered to type them in ASCII, either :o)

Based on the accents used in the sourcebook, the proper HTML way of
displaying the accents is:

Tír na nÓg

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	Tir Na nOg spelling & Europe 2060
Date:	Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:19:48 +0200

Message no. 4 According to Wordman, at 10:34 on 29 Mar 00, the word on the street was...

> > It's also
> > supposed to have accents on the "r" and "O", but I'm not
sure what (and
> > can't be bothered to type them in ASCII, either :o)
>
> Based on the accents used in the sourcebook, the proper HTML way of
> displaying the accents is:
>
> Tír na nÓg

FWIW, Tír na nÓg is also correct HTML. Still, your method is
easier to read without an HTML-browser or -mailer :)

These are the same codes that you can use in (nearly) any Windows program,
by pressing Alt, then hitting 0 (zero) on the numeric keypad followed by
the code, then releasing Alt. However, I wouldn't recommend using them (or
(nu)yen-signs) in e-mail, as they'll most likely only be readable under
the same OS as they were typed under. If I were to type Tír na nÓg, most
Windows users would see it with the accented i and O, but (for example)
Mac users will probably see other characters. (At a guess: a capital I
with grave accent and a quote mark? For Windows users: TÌr na n”g.)

So, now that we're not going off on a tangent or anything... :) I'm trying
to think of a way to bring this back on topic to SR, but I can't really
think of anything except asking about character sets in the 2060s, but
that is so contrived and such a lame thread (IMHO) that I won't even
bother :)

<GridSec>
Oh, and just to be sure: nobody had better get the idea from the above to
start a thread comparing the good and bad points of the various operating
systems.
</GridSec>

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
What a pretty life you have...
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Richard Gaywood r.gaywood@**********.com
Subject:	Tir Na nOg spelling & Europe 2060
Date:	Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:19:26 -0000

Message no. 5 Wordman wrote:
>> It's also
>> supposed to have accents on the "r" and "O", but I'm not sure
what (and
>> can't be bothered to type them in ASCII, either :o)
>
> Tír na nÓg

That'd be it. Cheers, mate.

--
-=R=-

SRGC SR1+ SR2++ SR3+++ h++| web: http://www.clmconsulting.co.uk
b+++ !B UB IE++ RN++ W- | ICQ: 66545073
ri++ ma++ m+ gm+ M+ !P | UT ngStats: RichBeard

From:	Richard Gaywood r.gaywood@**********.com
Subject:	Tir Na nOg spelling & Europe 2060
Date:	Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:23:05 -0000

Message no. 6 Gurth wrote:
>So, now that we're not going off on a tangent or anything... :) I'm trying
>to think of a way to bring this back on topic to SR, but I can't really
>think of anything except asking about character sets in the 2060s, but
>that is so contrived and such a lame thread (IMHO) that I won't even
>bother :)

Ah, but are there character sets? Or is everyone illiterate icon users? :o)

<he he he.. but did Gridsec notice the trip into way OT?>

--
-=R=-

SRGC SR1+ SR2++ SR3+++ h++| web: http://www.clmconsulting.co.uk
b+++ !B UB IE++ RN++ W- | ICQ: 66545073
ri++ ma++ m+ gm+ M+ !P | UT ngStats: RichBeard

From:	Starrngr@*.com Starrngr@*.com
Subject:	Tir Na nOg spelling & Europe 2060
Date:	Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:35:16 EST

Message no. 7 In a message dated 3/29/2000 11:35:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,
r.gaywood@**********.com writes:

> Ah, but are there character sets? Or is everyone illiterate icon users? :o)
>

Personal opinon on that one. And mine is yes, there are still charecter
sets. Why? written data is the most dense human readable form of
information there is. Especially when it comes to digital media. Take a
look at all the shadowtalk in the books. Even in 2060, mass computer storage
is not that cheap... so all that info needs to be stored in the most
economical form possible.

It also doesnt hurt that IMO, a decker in his deck could just think text onto
the screen instead of having to type it... and it would be more space
economical than storing digitised voice or video.

Having said that, I'd expect that there would only be a couple of charecter
sets. One that is basicly the next generation of ascii that could handle
most western, letter based langauges, and a few that handle symbolic
representations like Japaneese Kana and Kanji, etc. These would be
standardized across the board, if not by the national governments, buy the
corps themselves to make internal data transfer easier. And every computer,
reguardless of OS, would have a translating table built into it so that it
can understand each other, removing the barrier we have just discussed about
how MacOS users see the charset vs Microdreck users...

--
Starrngr -- Ranger HQ
HTTP://home.talkcity.com/TheSanitarium/Da_Muck/

"You wear a Hawaiian shirt and bring your music on a RUN? No wonder they
call you Howling Mad..." -- Rabid the Pysad.

From:	Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject:	Tir Na nOg spelling & Europe 2060
Date:	Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:51:37 -0500 (EST)

Message no. 8 Excerpts from ShadowRN: 29-Mar-100 Re: Tir Na nOg spelling & .. by
Starrngr@***.com
> Having said that, I'd expect that there would only be a couple of charecter
> sets. One that is basicly the next generation of ascii that could handle
> most western, letter based langauges, and a few that handle symbolic
> representations like Japaneese Kana and Kanji, etc. These would be
> standardized across the board, if not by the national governments, buy the
> corps themselves to make internal data transfer easier. And every computer,
> reguardless of OS, would have a translating table built into it so that it
> can understand each other, removing the barrier we have just discussed about
> how MacOS users see the charset vs Microdreck users...

I would think that Unicode, or an equivalent would end up becoming
popular. Each character is 16 bits. The first 128 characters in the
set are the same as ASCII, IIRC, and the rest includes some symbolic
characters, as well as support for alternate writing systems like
Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. I haven't had to use it extensively
though.

Mark

From:	Starrngr@*.com Starrngr@*.com
Subject:	Tir Na nOg spelling & Europe 2060
Date:	Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:20:45 EST

Message no. 9 In a message dated 3/29/2000 1:53:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
SHODAN+@***.EDU writes:

> I would think that Unicode, or an equivalent would end up becoming
> popular. Each character is 16 bits. The first 128 characters in the
> set are the same as ASCII, IIRC, and the rest includes some symbolic
> characters, as well as support for alternate writing systems like
> Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. I haven't had to use it extensively
> though.

That is entirely possible... At least in the US based contries. I still
expect that Pictographic languages would have their own charset because they
are so different, though.

--
Starrngr -- Ranger HQ
HTTP://home.talkcity.com/TheSanitarium/Da_Muck/

"You wear a Hawaiian shirt and bring your music on a RUN? No wonder they
call you Howling Mad..." -- Rabid the Pysad.

From:	Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject:	Tir Na nOg spelling & Europe 2060
Date:	Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:55:44 -0500

Message no. 10 > So, now that we're not going off on a tangent or anything... :)
> I'm trying
> to think of a way to bring this back on topic to SR, but I can't really
> think of anything except asking about character sets in the 2060s, but
> that is so contrived and such a lame thread (IMHO) that I won't even
> bother :)

Unicode, unicode, unicode.

From:	Daniel Sauve ahsdreamwalker@****.com
Subject:	Tir Na nOg spelling & Europe 2060
Date:	Thu, 30 Mar 2000 00:18:35 -0500

Message no. 11 > Unicode, unicode, unicode.
Would someone please stop this man from saying "unicode"?

<anvil falls on Wordman. Kristling glances skyward>

Thank you.

---------I am Sigfreud, the Living Sig!
Tranformers: Gyarahh!! (Things We Wish They Hadn't Said)
"Me and my big woofer. Let's FLY!!"
--Blaster, "Blaster Blues"
-----------------------Who-My-Master-is
Daniel S., aka Kristling Sings-to-Horn Dreamflyer,
ICQ # 53874855 / ahsdreamwalker@****.com
Son Of Wino

From:	Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject:	Tir Na nOg spelling & Europe 2060
Date:	Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:05:13 -0500

Message no. 12 > > Unicode, unicode, unicode.
> Would someone please stop this man from saying "unicode"?
>
> <anvil falls on Wordman. Kristling glances skyward>
>
> Thank you.

U... ni... uuuuggh.

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