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Message no. 1
From: John Fox <johnf@*****.EDU>
Subject: Tir Tairngire
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 03:51:30 CET
Hello everyone,
I was wondering if anyone knew which, if any, Shadowrun
supplements deal with the Elven nation of Tir Tairngire. Since it is so
close to the main game area of Seattle, there must be something on it.
Perhaps in the Native American/Indian books? I already know there's
nothing about it in the NAG to North America book.

On another note, I would like to thank those who suggested the
teetot.acusd.edu ftp site. There is a wealth of information on this site.
In addition to the NAGEE they have a "newspaper" called the Underground
and a faq list. All in all very useful. Perhaps the cyberware rules
could be submitted there? They could also be included in any future
version of the NAGEE.

John Fox
johnf@*****.edu
Message no. 2
From: R Andrew Hayden <rahayden@*****.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 05:03:30 CET
On Fri, 22 Jan 1993, John Fox wrote:

>
> On another note, I would like to thank those who suggested the
> teetot.acusd.edu ftp site. There is a wealth of information on this site.
> In addition to the NAGEE they have a "newspaper" called the Underground
> and a faq list. All in all very useful. Perhaps the cyberware rules
> could be submitted there? They could also be included in any future
> version of the NAGEE.
>

John,

As the "editor" of the Undergroup, I'm glad you found it interesting, but
unfortunately, I doubt there will be any more editions, at least not from
my end.

Let me tell you a story:

In september when school came into session, a group of players came
together and one of the players decided to make "The Underground" to hand
out at play session. Well, at one point, he up and got himself married,
leaving the shadowrun group to play the more demanding role of husband.
The rest of the group, saddened by the now lack of gaming newsletter
begged me to continue the tradition. I shrugged and said 'sure, why not'.
Thinking that I didn't have the creative power to come up with great
stories at all times, I decided to make it open to net.submissions.

Immediately after I published the first issue, Jerry Stratton, the NAGEE
master himself asked if he could archive issues along side the NAGEE.
This made me happy, and they were archived. And all was good.

But a bombshell was dropped in December. I got myself a new job that made
it difficult to work on the Underground (especially when you are a new
employee trying hard not to screw up AND impress the boss at the same time).
Yet I managed to get out four issues before another dissappointment. With
the end of school, two of my four players were leaving. One graduated and
the other ran out of money and moved home. Lacking in warm bodies, my
shadowrun group folded. *sounds of Taps is heard wailing in the background*

So thus, at least on my part, The Underground is finis. I no longer have
a group to write stories for and thus little incentive. I know it's sad,
but c'est le vie.

BUT (!!!) If someone else is willing to take over the Underground, that
would be great. Your only jobs would be to make sure that copies got out
to certain players on a list I have (subscribers) and that a copy gets to
Jerry Stratton for placement in the FTP archives.

This is a great group project for a playing group.

If you might be interested, drop me a line. I'll get back to you as soon
as I get back from New Orleans.

]> Robert Hayden <] [> This .signature has been made <]
]> <] [> with 85% recycled pixels. <]
]> rahayden@*****.weeg.uiowa.edu <]
]> aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu <]
Message no. 3
From: Zardon Farbane <KSREC@******.BITNET>
Subject: Tir Tairngire
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 20:57:16 -0900
Greet's Chummers....

FASA plans to release a Source Book in '93 on Tir Tairngire..I can't
remember what month but it was list in the new FASA order form in
BattleTech 3rd ED......

-Zardon Farbane Decker/Mage
Message no. 4
From: Thom Watson <thom@******.DIGEX.NET>
Subject: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 25 May 1993 16:51:50 -0400
Good job, though [mostly for personal reasons] I wish elves weren't
generalized as the complete bastards that this sourcebook makes them
out to be.

I also want more info about the elvish brand of magic which can be
either hermetic or shamanic depending on how you look at it.

And it was rather cute seeing the various hints about "Earthdawn" (in
case you don't know what that is, it's FASA's new game set in the
Fourth World, and due out this summer or fall)... thorn elves, the
date Crater Lake was created, the existence of a proto-Sperethiel,
immortal elves, etc.

--
Thom Watson elf-lad@*****.net
Message no. 5
From: John Fox <johnf@*****.EDU>
Subject: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 10:38:17 -0500
Hello,
I just got a copy of Tir Tairngire and I really like it. Around
January or February someone on Usenet with an advance copy said that the
decker Laughing Man is really Harlequin (from the module of the same name)
and Big 'D' is Dunzelkhan the dragon. Kind of makes sense. I would like
to know who Spes and Aegis, those Latin speaking insiders, are.

Following is the text of an America Online Conference that was uploaded to
Usenet a while ago. It is about Earthdawn, and although Shadowrun is not
mentioned, it makes a few allusions in Tir Tairngire clear. Read the
sections on Blood Elves as well as Naming ceremonies.

Enjoy,
John Fox
johnf@*****.edu



Online Gaming Forums Conference Log: FASA Conference/FASA Lou/08 APR 93




Copyright 1993 America Online, Distribute Freely




For more information about America Online and the Online Gaming Forums,
call:
1-800-827-6364

Cwm fnord : So when's the first book due to hit the shelves, Lou?
Hydro : those disciplines sound interesting, anything else??
FASA Lou : The first rulebook is scheduled for an August '93 release,
followed up immediately by a Gamemaster Pac
FASA Lou : As characters of each Discipline advance in experience...
FASA Lou : they get access to a variety of magical abilities called Talents.
Hydro : any address for more info, i've got to get going!! (other people
want to use the phone!!)
FASA Lou : Yes. Our address is 1100 W. Cermak, Suite B305, Chicago, IL 60608.
Mark the letter ATTN: Sales.
FASA Lou : That reminds me. We have a unique promotional plan in store. Would
you like the details?:)
Hydro : let's hear it!!
FASA Lou : Okay. In April and May we are going to distribute two, 8-page
color flyers...
FASA Lou : Each of these flyers will present a look at the world of Earthdawn
from the point of view of...
FASA Lou : two characters. The first flyer introduces Thom Hammerblade, a
dwarven Weaponsmith, and ...
FASA Lou : Ardis Foarr, a human Wizard.
Hydro : sounds neat, do I get these by writing to your???
FASA Lou : The second flyer will introduce Me'gana, an elven Swordmaster, and
Targ Bonslicer, troll Sky Raider.
FASA Lou : Yes, you can the flyers by writing to the address above.
FASA Lou : In each of the first two flyers, the characters tell a short story
about how they have come to be...
FASA Lou : in this small village named Tardim.
FASA Lou : In addition, the first flyers will also feature complete game
statistics for the characters.:)
FASA Lou : So then, now that you have these characters, what can you do with
them?
FASA Lou : Well, the third flyer provides a simplified explanation of the
rules of the game...
FASA Lou : and a short adventure featuring the four characters from the first
two flyers. So how does that sound?
Cwm fnord : How often will the flyers come out?
FASA Lou : The first flyer is due out in April/May. The second is due in
May/June. The third in July...
FASA Lou : just before the game is available. Cool huh?:)
Joan IV : Just what kind of a game is it and text or graphic?
Cwm fnord : Paper, Joan.
Joan IV : How do you play it?
Kris : ah. is formal conference? or may I ask off-topic question?
FASA Lou : It's a mostly formal conference, but what is your question?
FASA Lou : Okay, so what do yo guys know about Earthdawn?
Kris : was searching for area/articles/etc. re AOL free-form RP scenes
such as RDI, esp. info on MACROS.
Joan IV : Nothing but it's on paper
FASA Lou : Cyber, you had a question?:)
CyberChick: Uhm, my basic question is...
Cwm fnord : I think she's answering Kris's question in private, Lou.
CyberChick: What is Earthdawn. :>
FASA Lou : Okay. Earthdawn is a new fantasy RPG from FASA. it is schedued for
release in Aug. 93
CyberChick: Fantasy a la 'swords and sorcery" theme?
Cwm fnord : More like "high fantasy."
FASA Lou : Yes, but a little different most other S&S games out there.
FASA Lou : One way to sum it up would be to call it 'post magical-holocaust
high fantasy.
Mabelrode : What is special about Earthdawn that will set it apart from other
FRP's
M Panthera: Just what is Earthdawn ?
FASA Lou : Earthdawn is set in a world which has just recently (100 years
ago) emerged from 4 centuries ...
FASA Lou : self-imposed imprisonment.
FASA Lou : For those 400 years, the world was ravaged by creatures from
astral space known as ...
FASA Lou : the Horrors.
FASA Lou : The characters of Earthdawn are heroes who set out to reclaim their
world from the aftermath...
FASA Lou : of the Scourge, the name used for the time of the Horrors.
FASA Lou : So, what next?:D
Cwm fnord : *ALL* the PCs can use magic.
FASA Lou : Yes, they can.
FASA Lou : Some characters use magic to cast spells. These (of course) are
called magicians.
FASA Lou : Other characters use magic to power special abilities called
talents. These characters are called...
FASA Lou : Adepts. Actually, all characters are Adepts, but the people of
Earthdawn use the distinction...
M Panthera: And what is the character genation system like?
FASA Lou : between magicians and Adepts.
FASA Lou : I think that Mabelrode had a question, and then I'll discuss
Character Creation.
Mabelrode : Will the skills be percentile or level based
FASA Lou : Eathdawn is a fantasy RPG set in a world of post magical-holocaust
high magic.
FASA Lou : All abilities in ED (for short OK?:)) are rated by ranks. Ranks
determine the Step Number...
FASA Lou : of the ability. Step Numbers tell you which type of dice you roll
when attempting an action.
FASA Lou : Characters are rated by a set of 6 attributes, talents, skills and
other characteristics.
FASA Lou : Attribute values are purchased from a pool of points, or can be
rolled randomly for those who...
FASA Lou : like it that way. Attributes range from 2 to 18.
FASA Lou : A attribute value determines the base Step Number of an attribute.
All other abilities are based...
FASA Lou : on attributes. By adding the Step number of a Talent to the Step
Number of...
FASA Lou : the appropriate attribute, you determine the final Step Number for
the Talent.
FASA Lou : CORRECTION: By adding the RANK of a Talent to the Step Number of an
attribute. Sorry about that..
FASA Lou : and for the shouting.
FASA Lou : Okay, more questions?:)
Willem : Lou, since this is an EarthDawn conference...
Willem : I thought maybe you could tell us...
Willem : a bit about EarthyDawn's approach to magic...
Willem : We were discussing the logic of magic in a recent conference
here...
Willem : and I wondered what magical "theory" EarthDawn uses.
Willem : "(EarthyDawn?!?!)"
Cwm fnord : IMO, Earthdawn takes a very "scientific" approach to magic.
FASA Lou : CWMfnord, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Cwm fnord : It's an option. I like the magic system.
FASA Lou : Earthdawn Magic. Okay kids... here we go.
FASA Lou : The Magic theory of ED is based on the principal that in order
for magic to be used...
Cwm fnord : Bye scientific, I mean putting x+y together always gets you z -
not a big random factor.
FASA Lou : its presence must be perceived by the user.
FASA Lou : In the world of ED, all things that relate to magic have a pattern.
FASA Lou : By studying and learning about patterns, magicians and Adepts can
use magic to interact with them.
FASA Lou : When a pattern has had a significant interaction(s) with magic,
its pattern grows in strength.
FASA Lou : When this happens, the person, place or thing the pattern
represents is Named, and now has...
FASA Lou : what we call a True Pattern.
Michael815: What is this about patterns?
The Razor : Amber term...
FASA Lou : When a character learns the nature of a True Pattern, he is able to
use magic more effectively...
FASA Lou : against whatever the pattern represents.
FASA Lou : For example, if your characters studies the True Pattern of an
evil wizard...
FASA Lou : he would be able to use his magical abilities...
FASA Lou : more effectively against the wizard.
Michael815: Can we move back to basics? Since a few of us just arrived?
FASA Lou : The magical energy of the world of ED can be visualized by
thinking of...
Michael815: What is Earthdawn and why should I buy it? :-)
FASA Lou : strands of energy (called Threads) that characters can...
FASA Lou : manipulate to power their abilities.
BOAH : Is magic Common?
Cwm fnord : Earthdawn = high fantasy rpg set in a world recovering from a
magical holocaust.
FASA Lou : Spells are powered by threads, characters can attach threads
that...
Cwm fnord : BOAH, all PCs can use magic.
FASA Lou : connect two True Patterns, enabling magic to be used more
effectively.
FASA Lou : Yes, magic is very common. It is a part of everyone;s life.
Willem : How does that relate into game terms, Lou?
FASA Lou : By studying a True Pattern of the wizard from our example...
FASA Lou : your Swordmaster character could attach a Thread to his...
FASA Lou : Melee Weapons talent, and be better with that talent agaisnt the
wizard...
FASA Lou : than in other normal circumstances.
BOAH : Awesome
FASA Lou : Of course, this is not a real easy thing to do, but it is worth it.
FASA Lou : Here is another application of this idea...
FASA Lou : A group of characters forms an Adventuring Group. They choose a
name for themselves.
FASA Lou : This creates a True Pattern for the group. Each character can then
attach threads to this...
FASA Lou : True Pattern, and become better at certain abilities when acting
for the group.
Willem : Sounds interesting! I gather, then that one will try to conceal or
protect his/her True Pattern.
FASA Lou : This way, Adventuring Groups become more poweful than just a band
of heroes...
BOAH : Is this system compatible w/any of your existing systems?
FASA Lou : by forming a True Pattern for themselves.
Cwm fnord : Nicl - Earthdawn = high fantasy rpg set in a world recovering from
a magical holocaust.
FASA Lou : Yes Guy, all characters are wise to conceal their True Patterns.
FASA Lou : BOAH- no, this is a new system that stands alone.
Michael815: Lou, how many patterns can people develop and can they combine more
than one pattern they
Michael815: know to form new and stronger ones?
FASA Lou : Each person, place, or thing can have only ONE True Pattern. This
is created when they are Named.
Michael815: What do you mean by "named"?
FASA Lou : No patterns can't be combined, but they do grow in strength.
FASA Lou : When a person, place, or thing is given a Name, that is a Proper
Noun...
FASA Lou : it s True Pattern is formed. This True Pattern and Name separate
that person, place, or thing...
FASA Lou : from all others of its kind.
Michael815: How does this work as a game mechanic?
FASA Lou : There is no specific game mechanic for Naming. It just happens.
What is important...
FASA Lou : is that people, places, and things with proper names have True
Patterns.
Willem : O.K., so if you know something's (someone's) True Name...
Willem : ...you know their True Pattern...
Willem : and several people (each with their own pattern...)
Willem : ...can form alliances as a Group (or through something like a
marriage?) and form another pattern?
Biohunter : Fantasy?
Biohunter : FASA?
Cwm fnord : High fantasy. FASA.
Michael815: Ok, so I have a pattern or two. How do I perform a spell or
ability using earthdawn's rules
FASA Lou : Not exactly. A person's Name is only one part of their True
Pattern. A True Pattern...
FASA Lou : consists of all the knowledge about that person. This is called
Pattern Knowledge.
Willem : So the more you know about someone, the more of his Pattern is
revealed?
FASA Lou : a Person's Pattern Knowlegde can only be learned through a
material link to the True Pattern...
FASA Lou : these are called Pattern Items. Examples include a favorite
weapon, a piece of clothing, eytc.
FASA Lou : Yes Guy.
BOAH : Let me geuss there are bad guys who do this as a Hobby?
FASA Lou : Yes Bio, the rules are easy.
FASA Lou : You might say that BOAH>
Willem : I like this more and more! As a casual student of magical
"theory"...
PCC KDR : I'm not one for long discussions. What games is EarthDawn most
like? Shadowrun meets the Middle Ages?
Michael815: Ok, so cast a spell for me. And what stats do characters have in
Earthdawn?
FASA Lou : To cast a spell, a magician must have the spell to be cast in an
astral construct....
FASA Lou : known as a Spell Matrix. Once in the matrix, the magician adds any
additional magical energy...
FASA Lou : to the pattern of the spell by 'weaving' threads to it. Once all
the necessary threads are woven...
FASA Lou : the magician makes a Spellcasting test against the target.
FASA Lou : If the test is successful, the spell affects the target.
FASA Lou : Boah, you have a question.
BOAH : I know I'm late but are there classes or more like Archetypes?
FASA Lou : There are characters Disciplines. These are like classes, but are
much more.
FASA Lou : A character's Discipline determines the way in which that
character...
FASA Lou : views the world. It affects nearly all aspects of his life. This
is not done necessarily...
FASA Lou : in the rules, but in the conception of the character.
BOAH : Is it a single die system like SR?
Tucholka : Howdy FASA...new Fantasy RPG?
FASA Lou : No, Earthdawn uses all the types of polyhedral (mispelled) dice
there are.
Michael815: Is Earthdawn skill based then? vs. "class" based?
FASA Lou : Yup.
FASA Lou : It is a unique cross between skill and class based systems.
Michael815: How so?
Willem : :::gotta dig out the 4's & 12's again:::
FASA Lou : Characters have 'classes' but with each Discipline comes a set of
abilitites. When a character...
FASA Lou : improves enough of his abilities, he is eligible to advance within
his Discipline.
NicL : Would you mind a quick recap on the world setting?
FASA Lou : Earthdan is set in a world of high magic, that has just recently
experience...
FASA Lou : a magical holocaust.
FASA Lou : For 400 years, the people of the world hid away in underground
shelters, while creatures...
NicL : Actually, I meant what would I find when walking around.
FASA Lou : from astral space ravaged the land. Now, the heroes of the world
are working to reclaim the world.
FASA Lou : Well, most of the world is back to normal, in terms of vegatation
and plat life (duh, they're the same
FASA Lou : but there are many scars left over from the time of the Horrors.
People were forced to do awful...
FASA Lou : corrupting things to themselves in order to survive.
NicL : Modern cities? How much tech?
FASA Lou : One example is the Court of the Elven Queen, located in the Blood
Wood.
FASA Lou : The elves refused to live underground for 400 years, and instead
were forced...
FASA Lou : to undergo a bizarre ritual that has caused thorns to grow from
within their bodies.
Michael815: Two questions. You say disciplines give you abilities. Are you
talking skills and stats or
Tucholka : Good concept! Heroes! Yeah! First non-depressing major game with
potential!...er thorns?
Michael815: is Earthdawn a statless system?
FASA Lou : These elves are now known as Blood Elves. They are a horrible, and
beautiful people.
PCC KDR : Thorns???
FASA Lou : Yes thorns.
BOAH : Owy owy hurta and stuff!
PCC KDR : Big thorns, or little itty-bitty ones?
Tucholka : ...Blood drinking thorns?
FASA Lou : Characters have attributes, talents (magical abilities), skills,
and other characteristics.
FASA Lou : NicL, sorry, it's a fantasy game, set in the far distant past.
Cwm fnord : Big PAINFUL thorns. They don't drink blood, tho.
FASA Lou : Yes, big, nasty, blood dripping thorns.
Michael815: Can you change disciplines?
Cwm fnord : NicL - but magic in Earthdawn can do most of the things tech can do
in our world.
FASA Lou : You can, but it is difficult, and costly in terms of experience.
PCC KDR : Is there an alignment system, a la AD&D, or is it just 'do you own
thing'?
FASA Lou : You just do your own thing!!:()
Cwm fnord : Certain nationalities and organizations have a strong moral code.
FASA Lou : You would think.
Cwm fnord : But that's not a game mechanic, it's a background detail.
PCC KDR : How about Min/Maxing? If you took time, could you create a
super-character right out of the gate?
FASA Lou : Exactly
Michael815: I like the magic-tech idea.
NicL : Thanks. Um, is this Earth, or a totally fantasy setting?
FASA Lou : Not really PCC. The costs of high attribute values will prevent
someone from getting all high scores.
FASA Lou : It's Earth. At say 5000 BC.
PCC KDR : MagicTech: Brings to mind some magic anti-aircraft missiles my
friends and I created with AD&D. :)
NicL : Thanks again.
FASA Lou : No Prob
Cwm fnord : Really, Lou? OUR Earth? I didn't get that at all.
FASA Lou : Yup, it is Chris. It's our Earth.
Cwm fnord : Hmmm.
PCC KDR : Lou: Reason I ask is because a couple of people I know and game
with try to Min/Max all the time
Michael815: So what happens to everything then before civilization as we know
it comes about?
FASA Lou : Okay, so which cool thing should I spill next, the airships, or
the sea of molten stone, ...
FASA Lou : or the Theran Empire.
PCC KDR : Them flying ships in the ad!!!
FASA Lou : Well, the game takes place at a time before recorded history.
Cwm fnord : Micheal - Nasty horrors from another world come in and EAT
everything.
FASA Lou : Okay, the airships.
BOAH : Any really new Races?(not like the Blood elves but different)?
Cwm fnord : I really like the airships.
FASA Lou : Airships are used primarily by three groups. The Theran Empire, the
Crystal Raiders, and ....
FASA Lou : merchant companies.
Michael815: Cwm - But the spam and the cockroaches live to fight yet another
day!
FASA Lou : the Therans use stone airships, many of which are more like flying
castles than ships.
FASA Lou : The Crystal Raiders are clans of trolls who raid nearby towns and
villages, and the merchants...
FASA Lou : well, there just merchants,
FASA Lou : you know, doing their thing.
Tucholka : Link to Shadow Run maybe?
FASA Lou : Next up, the races of Eathdawn.
FASA Lou : There are elves, dwarves, humans, orks, trolls, you know the
standard fare...
PCC KDR : Races: 10K, marathon... ;)
FASA Lou : but we also have three other races.
FASA Lou : The first is the stone-like Obsidimen, who stand 7 feet tall and
weigh up to 900 pounds.
Cwm fnord : Dwarves are the majority...
FASA Lou : Next are the lizardmen T'Skrang, who operate riverboats along the
Serpent River. These are a cross...
FASA Lou : between standard lizardmen and Errol Flynn. T'Skrang have a
dramatic flare about them.
FASA Lou : Finally, there are the Windlings. These are tiny (18 inches tall),
winged humaniods. Highly magical.
FASA Lou : Very neat.
PCC KDR : Everything and everyone is magical, to some degree. right?
Michael815: Windings = Fairies?
FASA Lou : Yes, and no, in That order.
FASA Lou : Rich, all I can say is that it is the same world as Shadowrun, but
beyond that...
PCC KDR : Could anyone cast a spell (if they know one?)
BOAH : Thank you Buckaroo
FASA Lou : No. Only magician characters can cast spells. These are
Elementalists, Illusionists, Nethermancers...
FASA Lou : and Wizards.
NicL : I must sign off before my long distance eats me alive, but are all
races available for PCs?
FASA Lou : Yes they are Nicole.
PCC KDR : Now the financials: How much will the game cost? will it be in
hardcover?
FASA Lou : Any other questions out there?:)
BOAH : What is a Nethermancer
FASA Lou : Earthdawn will be a hardcover book that will retail for $30.
Michael815: How about a sample character?
FASA Lou : a Nethermancer is a magician who deals with spirits, undead, and
the Horrors.
BOAH : Cool!
Michael815: In the library would be fine.
FASA Lou : I can perhaps upload a sample character to the library sometime
next week. You can also ...
FASA Lou : see sample characters in the FREE Earthdawn flyers due out in
April, May , and June.
BOAH : Any other disscussions on ED before it hits the stores planned?
FASA Lou : Depends on you guys. I'm open to it.
Steven Tas: I would love to learn more about it. :)
Michael815: How about a testrun?
BOAH : yeah, yeah,yeah I got here late and would love that
Michael815: You provide characters and we have the fun?
FASA Lou : I might be uploading a sample of the first few chapters, if you
guys would like it...
FASA Lou : and my superiors approve.
BOAH : upload away.
Michael815: Sounds good! I'd like to chat a bit before August as well!
FASA Lou : Michael, the first two flyers give you two characters each, the
third gives you simplified rules...
FASA Lou : and a short adventure so you can try the game before it is
released.
BOAH : How do we get the flyers?
FASA Lou : They are going to be distributed to game and hobby stores, or you
can write to us.
Steven Tas: Lou, can we send our names and addresses to you via e-mail to get
the flyers?
Michael815: Nice touch. If it's as good as the rest of FASA stamped products,
you'll have a sale here!
FASA Lou : Maybe, I can upload the contents of the flyers so you guys can see
them here too.(no art though)
BOAH : Estimated price on the flyers?
FASA Lou : FREE, FREE, FREE, ALL
BOAH : Yippy skippy
FASA Lou : Three are FREE. BTW, the first two are 8 pages each. The third is
somewhere between 24 and 32 pages.
FASA Lou : Anything else?
Michael815: Thanks for the information.
FASA Lou : Steven, Sure you can!!:)
BOAH : Big armor system?
Steven Tas: Thanks Lou! :)
FASA Lou : Not really, armor reduces the amount of damage you take from an
attack. But...
FASA Lou : armor can be defeated by a better than average hit.
BOAH : What about no armor advantages?
FASA Lou : The game is not that detailed in terms of combat. But, there are
always supplementary rules...
BOAH : Do you have an internet adress?
FASA Lou : Well, if there are no further, questions,
FASA Lou : No, I'm only here on AOL (and Loving it)
Cwm fnord : Isn't the AOL Internet gateway 2-way?
FASA Lou : I should learn to spell.
FASA Lou : I dunno.
Cwm fnord : I think you can send Lou internet mail to his AOL box
Steven Tas: yes, it is.
Cwm fnord : Dunno the suffix, though.
Steven Tas: aol.com
Cwm fnord : There y'go, BOAH, FASA LOU@***.COM
Message no. 6
From: John Fox <johnf@*****.EDU>
Subject: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 10:51:21 -0500
>the elves and the NAN could, conceviably, be working together. They have
>(as far as I've seen) the same kind of attitude to the earth. (note : As a
>poor college student I havn't had the cash to buy sourcebooks like the
>Native Americans 1 & 2, London, Seattle, NAG to NA, and I probably can't
>afford Tir Tangire either. So I don't know all the sourcebooks...)


Tyger,
I don't think so. While I have the impression that NAN just
muddles along and tries to help the environment and do other mundane
things, Tir Tairngire has darker and more ambitious goals. Also, the Tir
was born out of violence with a NAN member, the Salish-Shidhe council.
Furthermore, the Tir seems to be ruled by a class of mostly European rich
people. I am talking about the Royal class here. Just my thoughts.

John Fox
johnf@*****.edu
Message no. 7
From: Dwayne Baker <dabaker@***.EDU>
Subject: TIR TAIRNGIRE ??
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 14:04:30 -0600
I recently bought a copy of Tir Tairngire that was discounted due to
6 misprints.
These misprints are specifically pp. 134,135,138,139,142,143
If anyone would be so kind as to E-Mail me a brief synopses of
these pages I would sincerely appreciate it.

On a Different Subject: Fahnuir would you E-Mail me Your E-mail address
my system doesn't pick it up from your posts.

In Fellowship of the Shadows

Dwayne Baker, aka Umi
dabaker@***.edu
Message no. 8
From: "Matthew P. Macstravic" <s0238115@********.MONMOUTH.EDU>
Subject: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 12:12:57 EDT
Gurth wrote....
>
> Tir Tairngire was already in planning before the Awakening. It's more
> likely that the formin of the NAN gave the elves an easier time creating
> their "promised land."
>
Hmmmmmm......(Consulting the history given in several SR
Rule/sourcebooks).....According to the timeline, the Awakening occured almost
simultaineously (sp?) with the Great Ghost Dance of 2012. Elves and Dwarves
didn't start appearing until about 2015, and even then they were just
newborns and children.

Are you trying to say that the Elves were thinking of forming Tir Tairngire
before they even existed? That would be a good trick.

NightStorm

"It seems to me that we have a problem here.....hey!! Do you have a permit for
that?!" - Typical Lone Star Patrol
Message no. 9
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@************.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 12:52:19 -0400
On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, Matthew P. Macstravic wrote:

> Hmmmmmm......(Consulting the history given in several SR
> Rule/sourcebooks).....According to the timeline, the Awakening occured almost
> simultaineously (sp?) with the Great Ghost Dance of 2012. Elves and Dwarves
> didn't start appearing until about 2015, and even then they were just
> newborns and children.
>
> Are you trying to say that the Elves were thinking of forming Tir Tairngire
> before they even existed? That would be a good trick.

If you check some of the novels and preprinted adventures (not to
mention all the hints in various sourcebooks), there have been Elves
since long before the Awakening.
There's enough "evidence" from the novels and books to show that
there were spike babies (Elves born in areas of high magic, before the
Awakening) going back hundreds of years.

---------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@************.org> =========---------
| "Because I could not stop for death - |
| He kindly stopped for me - |
| The carriage held but just ourselves - |
| And immortality." --Emily Dickinson |
----========== http://www.cybernothing.org/jdfalk/home.html ==========----
Message no. 10
From: Sgt Pepper <GRBENNET@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 15:18:40 EDT
On Mon, 9 Oct 1995 12:12:57 EDT Matthew P. Macstravic said:
>Gurth wrote....
>>
>> Tir Tairngire was already in planning before the Awakening. It's more
>> likely that the formin of the NAN gave the elves an easier time creating
>> their "promised land."
>>
>Hmmmmmm......(Consulting the history given in several SR
>Rule/sourcebooks).....According to the timeline, the Awakening occured almost
>simultaineously (sp?) with the Great Ghost Dance of 2012. Elves and Dwarves
>didn't start appearing until about 2015, and even then they were just
>newborns and children.
>
That is when they "expressed". There is some debate over the lifespan of an
Elf, and it has been suggested that they are close to immortal. Many Elves
have lived though several "worlds". Harlequin and Erhan both lived during the
4th world.

>Are you trying to say that the Elves were thinking of forming Tir Tairngire
>before they even existed? That would be a good trick.
>
Nope, they have existed atleast since the fourth world. They just hid their
appeareance until now.
>NightStorm
>
>"It seems to me that we have a problem here.....hey!! Do you have a permit for
>that?!" - Typical Lone Star Patrol

"I MAY BE SANE BUT I'M CRAZIER THAN YOU" O O
NOSALGIA ISN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE. ^
SOMEONE WHO THINKS LOGICALLY IS A NICE _____/
CONTRAST TO THE REAL WORLD.
THERE IS ALWAYS ONE MORE IMBECILE THAN YOU COUNTED ON.
IF YOU CAN SMILE WHEN THINGS GO WRONG, YOU HAVE SOMEONE IN
MIND TO BLAME.
COMMON SENSE REALLY AIN'T ALL THAT COMMON.

GeekCodev3.0

GM/ED d- s+: g+ a26 c++ u- P? L E? W !N K- w+ M-- V+ PS+ PE Y+ PGP-
t+ 5 X+ R+ tv+ b+(++) DI d G e++(+++) h+ r++(+++) y+
Message no. 11
From: "Victor Rodriguez, Jr" <sedahdro@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:11:00 EST
>Hmmmmmm......(Consulting the history given in several SR
>Rule/sourcebooks).....According to the timeline, the Awakening occured almost
>simultaineously (sp?) with the Great Ghost Dance of 2012. Elves and Dwarves
>didn't start appearing until about 2015, and even then they were just
>newborns and children.
>
>Are you trying to say that the Elves were thinking of forming Tir Tairngire
>before they even existed? That would be a good trick.
>
>NightStorm
>
>"It seems to me that we have a problem here.....hey!! Do you have a permit for
>that?!" - Typical Lone Star Patrol
Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe that the Tir Tairngire Sourcebook
hints that the founders of the Tir were in fact born way before the
awakening. In fact, no one knows where they were born and when. They say
elves are long live but just how long, 100 years, 200 years 1000 years? No
one know for sure. There were many spike baby's born before the awakening.
---Sedah Drol
--
I know where my towel is, do you?
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 12
From: "John W. Carter" <scarterjw@****.TRISTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:47:13 -0500
>>Hmmmmmm......(Consulting the history given in several SR
>>Rule/sourcebooks).....According to the timeline, the Awakening occured almost
>>simultaineously (sp?) with the Great Ghost Dance of 2012. Elves and Dwarves
>>didn't start appearing until about 2015, and even then they were just
>>newborns and children.
>>

Um, wrong on two counts: 1) The Awakening occured on Dec. 24, 2011, the GGD
occured sometime after that, probably in 2012 or 13.
2) Elves and Dwarves started appearing during 2011 (The Year of Chaos)

>>Are you trying to say that the Elves were thinking of forming Tir Tairngire
>>before they even existed? That would be a good trick.
>>
>>NightStorm
>>
>>"It seems to me that we have a problem here.....hey!! Do you have a permit
for
>>that?!" - Typical Lone Star Patrol
>Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe that the Tir Tairngire Sourcebook
>hints that the founders of the Tir were in fact born way before the
>awakening. In fact, no one knows where they were born and when. They say
>elves are long live but just how long, 100 years, 200 years 1000 years? No
>one know for sure. There were many spike baby's born before the awakening.
> ---Sedah Drol

You are not at all mistaken. Ehran "The Scribe", the main force behind TT,
is over 5000 years old. And I, being an Earthdawn semi-efficionado who
adores SR, knows that the language of TT, Sperethiel exsisted in the Fourth
World, (ED time) so that hints at at least a few Immortal Elves
plotting the demise of the world (or at least the rebirth of Thera).

John Carter
...fancy schmancy closer forthcoming
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:59:06 +0100
Matthew P. Macstravic said on 9 Oct 95...

> Gurth wrote....
> >
> > Tir Tairngire was already in planning before the Awakening. It's more
> > likely that the formin of the NAN gave the elves an easier time creating
> > their "promised land."
> >
> Hmmmmmm......(Consulting the history given in several SR
> Rule/sourcebooks).....According to the timeline, the Awakening occured almost
> simultaineously (sp?) with the Great Ghost Dance of 2012. Elves and Dwarves
> didn't start appearing until about 2015, and even then they were just
> newborns and children.

The Awakening is generally assumed to have taken place in 2011, when elves
and dwarves started being born (is that good English? :)

> Are you trying to say that the Elves were thinking of forming Tir Tairngire
> before they even existed? That would be a good trick.

It's a good trick indeed, and one they pulled off as well... "The elves"
were thinking of forming Tir Tairngire before the Awakening; I think you
should go and buy (or at least read) a few sourcebooks and/or modules: Tir
Tairngire, Tir na nOg, Harlequin, Harlequin's back, and probably some
others I can't think of at the moment. Oh, and try Denizens of Earthdawn
volume 1 as well after you've read those...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Feel free, but don't feel too comfortable
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:59:06 +0100
John W. Carter said on 9 Oct 95...

> You are not at all mistaken. Ehran "The Scribe", the main force behind TT,
> is over 5000 years old. And I, being an Earthdawn semi-efficionado who
> adores SR, knows that the language of TT, Sperethiel exsisted in the Fourth
> World, (ED time) so that hints at at least a few Immortal Elves
> plotting the demise of the world (or at least the rebirth of Thera).

I thought the Tir Tairngire elves were the Blood Elves? It seems pretty
obvious from the TT sourcebook... And for that matter, aren't the Tir na
nOg elves the ones who _weren't_ Blood Elves? (I don't own the Tir na nOg
book.)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Feel free, but don't feel too comfortable
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 15
From: HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:56:49 GMT
in the tir tairngire source book there are references to the so
called existance of the tir before it was recognised.

if you look hard enough there is a reference to one of the founders
(the woman) have a picture in her home of an elf with thorns through
her skin.

in fact the portrait was of her from the fourth age(earthdawn) and it
seems to imly that all tir tairngire is actually blood wood from
earthdawn.
Message no. 16
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 11:15:02 +0100
Gurth wrote:
>
> John W. Carter said on 9 Oct 95...
>
> > You are not at all mistaken. Ehran "The Scribe", the main force
behind TT,
> > is over 5000 years old. And I, being an Earthdawn semi-efficionado who
> > adores SR, knows that the language of TT, Sperethiel exsisted in the Fourth
> > World, (ED time) so that hints at at least a few Immortal Elves
> > plotting the demise of the world (or at least the rebirth of Thera).
>
> I thought the Tir Tairngire elves were the Blood Elves? It seems pretty
> obvious from the TT sourcebook... And for that matter, aren't the Tir na
> nOg elves the ones who _weren't_ Blood Elves? (I don't own the Tir na nOg
> book.)

On the contrary, the Tir Na nOg elves are the elven court (but without
blood magic this time) it seems that they got themselves a new queen and
so everythings peachy. The Tir Tairngire elves must be the new incarnation
of the Therans. Thera was after all an elven creation (even if elves were not
a major part of the population) and Tit Tairngire is (technically speaking)
no elves-only state. OTOH they have Jenna Ni'Faira who seems to be the old
blood queen, hmmm

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 17
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 11:23:02 +0100
HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
>
> in the tir tairngire source book there are references to the so
> called existance of the tir before it was recognised.
>
> if you look hard enough there is a reference to one of the founders
> (the woman) have a picture in her home of an elf with thorns through
> her skin.
>
> in fact the portrait was of her from the fourth age(earthdawn) and it
> seems to imly that all tir tairngire is actually blood wood from
> earthdawn.

This canot be true, as Barsaive (the upstart Theran backyard) is modern
day Ukrane. Remember that various characters (in the novels) have traveled
to Blood Wood from Barsaive and I really dont think that this would be
possible if said forest was situated in North Amerika.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 18
From: HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 13:21:58 GMT
if you check out the idea some geologists have about continental
drift and look at most atlas's and compare the coastline of S America
on the eastern side with that of S Africa then it may have been
possible after all magic is magic

either way i didn't mean to imply that they are the same place, but
that ehran and harlequin and the founders of tir tairngire. are the
survivors of the 4th world and have now found the purfect place to
establish the kingdom of blood wood. it does have to be in the same
place historically as blood wood has more spiritual links.

i also think there is possibly a nice plot linking the lands of tir
na nog and tir tairngire. if you look at tir na nog i think it is the
elves attempt at recreating the elven kingdom before queen alicia(or
what ever her name was) before the cataclysm i.e. before the turned
it into blood wood.that is why there is so much drek flying between
the two elven states.

p.s does anyone know if phil ward(renegade) still posts on this list
as he was in university with me and we have lost contact
Message no. 19
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 13:17:15 GMT
Sgt Pepper writes
> >
> That is when they "expressed". There is some debate over the lifespan of an
> Elf, and it has been suggested that they are close to immortal.

The Tir Taingire sourcebook says 125 years is the official line but
implies centuries is closer to the truth. ED comes in at 300 - 400
years, assuming no immortality or life extension magic of other types
[Queens have died of age having lived a lot more than 400 years, dn't
have any details]

> Many Elves
> have lived though several "worlds". Harlequin and Erhan both lived during
the
> 4th world.
>
Probably all the 4 elves behind Tir Taingire, add the one in house of
the sun [because she recognised a name], & Harlequin etc.

i would not say many but it could be over a dozen easily.

Mark
Message no. 20
From: HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 13:28:28 GMT
this is jack back and voicing his opinion again i am not quite sure
about one of the tir's being thera because i think that thera could
possibly have been atlantis before it sank back into the sea
explaining why they are now no longer self appointed rulers of the
planet.

but either way i think the tir tairngire/tir na nog relationship is
very usefull as a plot line between both systems.as i think it is
that of the blood elves and those elves how have disagreed with the
use of the rituals which formed blood wood
Message no. 21
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 13:49:29 +0100
On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, HALOWEEN JACK wrote:

> in the tir tairngire source book there are references to the so
> called existance of the tir before it was recognised.
>
> if you look hard enough there is a reference to one of the founders
> (the woman) have a picture in her home of an elf with thorns through
> her skin.
>
> in fact the portrait was of her from the fourth age(earthdawn) and it
> seems to imly that all tir tairngire is actually blood wood from
> earthdawn.
I recall that in Harlequin: Counterstroke, there was a similarly
described picture in the coastal condos' attic.

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 22
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 13:46:13 GMT
Jani Fikouras writes

> HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
> >
> > if you look hard enough there is a reference to one of the founders
> > (the woman) have a picture in her home of an elf with thorns through
> > her skin.
> >
see ref in other post on this thread.

> > in fact the portrait was of her from the fourth age(earthdawn) and it
> > seems to imly that all tir tairngire is actually blood wood from
> > earthdawn.
>
> This canot be true, as Barsaive (the upstart Theran backyard) is modern
> day Ukrane. Remember that various characters (in the novels) have traveled
> to Blood Wood from Barsaive and I really dont think that this would be
> possible if said forest was situated in North Amerika.
>
Could we agian be looking at low Mana politics, theimmortal elves
could well have uprooted and moved to the USA rather than USSR after
one of the world wars knowing they needed time to plan, and expecting
less trouble intimidadting the US government that has to listen to
people [annilating rebelions is not good for public relations] rather
than the USSR that until about 20 years before the awakening looked
able to stomp attemps to from an elven nation just like that.
[no political comment intended just trying to look at the immortal
elves options needing decades to plot the new Tir's] It is
questionable if the elves could have forseen the Belin wall falling
down any better than everyone else. Then add in less polution to
clear up [ref Atzlan sourcebook where jungle cats comment on
Harlequin hot having to repeat the bridge manouver for Amazonia,
implies the big cleanup/ forest regrowth magic is risky due to its
power [and they sure used it on the forests in the Tir Taingire too]]
so the cleaner land could have been an advantage from a pure magical
safety point of view.

oh well end guesses based on what we have no information on. Asa
result this comes to a list of reasons why anything is possible
rather than a guess as to what is what.

Mark
Message no. 23
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 13:37:14 GMT
Jani Fikouras writes

> Gurth wrote:
> >
> > John W. Carter said on 9 Oct 95...
> >
> > > You are not at all mistaken. Ehran "The Scribe", the main force
behind TT,
> > > is over 5000 years old.
Harlequin is over 7000, and everything indicates they are of similar
age. Realistically these two at least were trained before the scourge
in Earthdawn (4th age) at the latest which puts the figure nearer to
8-9000+ assuming they were born in the 4th age which is a guess, no
info either way on the 2nd age.

> > > And I, being an Earthdawn semi-efficionado who
> > > adores SR, knows that the language of TT, Sperethiel exsisted in the Fourth
> > > World, (ED time) so that hints at at least a few Immortal Elves
> > > plotting the demise of the world (or at least the rebirth of Thera).
> >
> > I thought the Tir Tairngire elves were the Blood Elves? It seems pretty
> > obvious from the TT sourcebook... And for that matter, aren't the Tir na
> > nOg elves the ones who _weren't_ Blood Elves? (I don't own the Tir na nOg
> > book.)
>
> On the contrary, the Tir Na nOg elves are the elven court (but without
> blood magic this time) it seems that they got themselves a new queen and
> so everythings peachy. The Tir Tairngire elves must be the new incarnation
> of the Therans. Thera was after all an elven creation (even if elves were not
> a major part of the population) and Tit Tairngire is (technically speaking)
> no elves-only state. OTOH they have Jenna Ni'Faira who seems to be the old
> blood queen, hmmm
>
I have seen arguements both ways on this. The 'elf with thorns
picture' in Tir Taingire and thier metagene research suggest they are
the Blood elves but all is not at all clear. Jani quotes some of the
evidence for the other way arround. The guesses at the bottom of the
ED-SR crossover FAQ (see ED on the web), summarise a lot but i am
ever more suspecting that there have been elven political
developments between 1500odd TH (1507TH is ED, TH for Throlic
calender), and 2011AD, which have mixed things up. For instance the
'Blood queen' could well be Jenna Ni'Faira but in the discussions in
the Atzlan sourcebook conversation Ehran represents the Tir Na Nog
and the 'Lady of the court' [elven court, ?blood or not] appears to
be young (born after 2011 or last 100 years spike baby) not a 4th age
soul. Then the matter of there being Two elven courts in SR, the
Seelie court that heads the Tir Na Nog and the vague references to an
unseelie court. Wether the Seelie court is the origonal, [ie blood]
or a replacement the non Blood elves formed to ditch the blood elves
is very debateable. Also the locastion of said Unseelie court,
renagede in Tir Na Nog or in the Tir Taingire is not clear.

Hope thats all ok as its a while since i read the Tir sourcebooks.

Reading absoultely every sourcebook helps keep up though Atzlan the
two Tir's are the most important for this lot.

Mark
Message no. 24
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:30:49 +0930
HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
> this is jack back and voicing his opinion again i am not quite sure
> about one of the tir's being thera because i think that thera could
> possibly have been atlantis before it sank back into the sea
> explaining why they are now no longer self appointed rulers of the
> planet.

*grin* Where did you think they got the name??
(To the uninformed... Thera was a massive volcano eruption in the
Mediterranian, believed to be the source of the Atlantean legends. It was
several times more powerful than Krakatoa)

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 25
From: Gallas William <gallas@**.EC-LYON.FR>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:21:31 MET
I don't have ED but I'd like to get some more stuff about magic background in
Shadowrun. Can you please give me the names of 2 more important ED books.

Cobra.
Message no. 26
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 06:28:34 -0700
KILL ALL THE ELVES! CONSPIRACY! KILL THEM ALL!

(sorry)

I tend to get like this whenever a Tir Tangerine thread comes up....

:)

-E
Message no. 27
From: "Andrew W. Ragland" <RAGLAN45@*****.MMC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 08:51:34 -0500
>Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe that the Tir Tairngire Sourcebook
>hints that the founders of the Tir were in fact born way before the
>awakening. In fact, no one knows where they were born and when. They say
>elves are long live but just how long, 100 years, 200 years 1000 years? No
>one know for sure. There were many spike baby's born before the awakening.

Good gods. Folks, this thread has gone on way too long. Read the source
material. All of it. THe Elven conspiracy goes back to the Theran Empire,
back in Earthdawn times. It's been going on through the 4th world, the 5th
world and into the 6th. The Elves learned how to preserve their elvenness
and do some low-level magic even in the trough of the mana cycle in the 5th
world. It's all there in the books. Some elves are mortal, and live 300 to
400 years. Others are immortal. It's a genetic thing. If you have immortal
parents, you're probably immortal too. Spike babies have very little to do
wit it, unless you call babies born to parents deliberately living on top
of a magical Node spike babies. The Elves intended to keep their pointed
widdle ears and have engaged in a conspiracy across thousands of years to
do just that, and retain major power behind the scenes. You want
conspiracies? HEre's one for you. Tir na nOg is the Blood Wood reborn. Tir
Tairngire is Shosara reborn. The two don't get along because of a split
back around the beginning of the Fourth World. The Therans are still around
and still doing really big magic. Read Cybermancy. Read Skypoint/Vivane.
Read Tir Tairngire and Tir naNog. It's all there.

Andrew W. Ragland |GTW @*+(-) s++/+ a c++(++++)| _ Prayer Division|
Product Support Manager |G+ y* L e* W !N o+ K w++$ M+| /\ /\ Ariadne, |
R & M BioMetrics / BioQuant|O+$ V+ +PS- +PE- Y+ PGP @*+ | |-*-| Strengthen |
raglan45@*****.mmc.edu |5@ X+ R+++>$ h---- b+++ r+++| \/_\/ The Web! |
The Internet is a Process, not a Thing
Message no. 28
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:52:40 +0100
HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
>
> if you check out the idea some geologists have about continental
> drift and look at most atlas's and compare the coastline of S America
> on the eastern side with that of S Africa then it may have been
> possible after all magic is magic

I dont thin that even magic could manage that :) and besides we
would have had some evidence.

> either way i didn't mean to imply that they are the same place, but
> that ehran and harlequin and the founders of tir tairngire. are the
> survivors of the 4th world and have now found the purfect place to
> establish the kingdom of blood wood. it does have to be in the same
> place historically as blood wood has more spiritual links.

Harlequin probably has very little to do with it, but Ehran (in
the guise of Walter Brightwater), Lugh Surehand, Eithne Oakforest,
Jenna Ni'Faira, Sean Laverty and the rest of the princes probably had
*lots* to do with it.
As for the place they chose for Tir Tairgire, well I only say
"the lake in the crater" :) Its kommon knowledge that this lake
is a place of great power and that the whole area covered by the Tir
has unusually high levels of magic.

> i also think there is possibly a nice plot linking the lands of tir
> na nog and tir tairngire. if you look at tir na nog i think it is the
> elves attempt at recreating the elven kingdom before queen alicia(or
> what ever her name was) before the cataclysm i.e. before the turned
> it into blood wood.that is why there is so much drek flying between
> the two elven states.

These two states have totally different outlooks, Tir Na nOg is the
more craditionbound Court of the Elven Queen, whereas Tir Tairngire
is more technology/magic oriented, much like Thera was.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 29
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 15:11:58 +0100
Eve Forward wrote:
>
> KILL ALL THE ELVES! CONSPIRACY! KILL THEM ALL!

This is the truth everybody knows that the elves are behind VITAS,
they did it kill the people that would goblinise/bear other than elven
metahuman children. In the case of the Tskrang they were very succesfull
if I might add :)
And they are also responcible for the Crash of 29, everybody knows
that :) They did it to weaken the old USA and the whole world so that
they could take control much easier.
And they were the ones who helped the Amerindians and they are probably
guilty for every other misfortune that hit the world after 2000 :)

> I tend to get like this whenever a Tir Tangerine thread comes up....

Me too :)

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 30
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 15:21:04 +0100
Andrew W. Ragland wrote:
>
> Good gods. Folks, this thread has gone on way too long. Read the source
> material. All of it. THe Elven conspiracy goes back to the Theran Empire,
> back in Earthdawn times. It's been going on through the 4th world, the 5th
> world and into the 6th. The Elves learned how to preserve their elvenness
> and do some low-level magic even in the trough of the mana cycle in the 5th
> world. It's all there in the books. Some elves are mortal, and live 300 to
> 400 years. Others are immortal. It's a genetic thing. If you have immortal
> parents, you're probably immortal too.

As is the case with Ehran's daughter.

> Spike babies have very little to do
> wit it, unless you call babies born to parents deliberately living on top
> of a magical Node spike babies. The Elves intended to keep their pointed
> widdle ears and have engaged in a conspiracy across thousands of years to
> do just that, and retain major power behind the scenes. You want
> conspiracies? HEre's one for you. Tir na nOg is the Blood Wood reborn. Tir
> Tairngire is Shosara reborn.

I think that its actually the other way round. Tir Na nOg has nothing to
do with blood magic, they are the rebirth of the *original* seelie court.
This is also confirmed by the fact that Tir Na nOg is on bad terms with
dragons (much as the 4th age seelie court was).
Its Tir Tairngire thats got the blood queen, now I dont think that they
want to be the new blood wood (hell not even the old blood wood wanted that,
it happened by accident and they couldnt shake it off) their probably looking
for a way to reverse the ritual. I think that they intend to be the new Thera,
their outlook on magic and technology certainly quilifies them.

> The two don't get along because of a split
> back around the beginning of the Fourth World. The Therans are still around
> and still doing really big magic. Read Cybermancy. Read Skypoint/Vivane.
> Read Tir Tairngire and Tir naNog. It's all there.

The fact that the Atlantean corporation is a Tir Tairgire corp and the
various references to Atlantis/Thera (the oil paintings in the various
Telestrian Industries Offices) seems to suggest that the Tir elves are
the new Therans.
After all the original Thera was founded by elves.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 31
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 15:48:42 +0100
At 15.11 10/10/95 +0100, you wrote:
>Eve Forward wrote:
>>
>> KILL ALL THE ELVES! CONSPIRACY! KILL THEM ALL!
>
> This is the truth everybody knows that the elves are behind VITAS,
>they did it kill the people that would goblinise/bear other than elven
>metahuman children. In the case of the Tskrang they were very succesfull
>if I might add :)
> And they are also responcible for the Crash of 29, everybody knows
>that :) They did it to weaken the old USA and the whole world so that
>they could take control much easier.
> And they were the ones who helped the Amerindians and they are probably
>guilty for every other misfortune that hit the world after 2000 :)
>
>> I tend to get like this whenever a Tir Tangerine thread comes up....
>
> Me too :)

But, I thought the elves were behind most episodes of X-Files...
(sorry, stop the thread here, right now :)

Bye, Paolo
------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider http://www.interware.it/users/paolo
Trieste, Italy
Ph. +39-40-411400
------------------------------------------------------------------
Home of The Shadowrun Archive
Message no. 32
From: Brian McCallister <mccllstr@*****.BUCKNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 11:40:09 -0400
It was written...
>8-9000+ assuming they were born in the 4th age which is a guess, no
>info either way on the 2nd age.

According to the Dragons, I don not remember where though, the age =
before earhdawn was lacking metahumans. However, someone had to have =
written the books of harrow, and they were written for metahuman sized =
people. Two there is a theory that all the other Name-Givers were =
originally human that some pro-human propagandists in Earthdawn spout. =
No one really believes them though. Three, Harlequin was a knight of the =
Crimson Spire, the City of Spires, cannot remember elven name for it, =
listed in Denizens 1, fell during the Scourge so... H is at least older =
than the Scourge in ED.

has anyone seen anything of that Immortals Trilogy that is supposed to =
be coming out. Or knows who is writing them. I do hgope they are of =
higher quality than most FASA label fiction. (Nothing against you Tom, =
you've got great ideas...)

-skrub,,,

PS: I am back :-)
Message no. 33
From: "Dan Warner Jr." <dw3897@******.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:04:18 -0400
On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Brian McCallister wrote:

>
> has anyone seen anything of that Immortals Trilogy that is supposed
> to be coming out. Or knows who is writing them. I do hgope they are of
> higher quality than most FASA label fiction. (Nothing against you Tom,
> you've got great ideas...)
> -skrub,,,
>
The last of the Immortals Trilogy is "Worlds Without End", the
first two Earthdawn books will be out in the fall according to "WWE", the
author is Caroline Spector and I believe these are her first books, not
sure, I could be wrong on that.
Dan Warner dw3897@******.albany.edu
Looking for someone to plat with in a new cty sucks. Albany NY
Message no. 34
From: David van Nederveen Meerkerk <D.N.M.vanNederveen@***.RUU.NL>
Subject: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 16:33:20 +0100
I haven't read anything of ED yet (oh, when will I get rich enough.....)
but I know one thing from the SR novel Worlds without end: Tir Tairngire
has the Blood Queen in its court. Though it's not Jenn Ni'Fiarra (sp?),
she's the blood queens daugther (so the book seems to say); it's Alachia
(sp?), a nemesis of the main character, Aina (has anybody pinned her down
yet in ED history - she seems to be even more a renegade then Harlequin -
whose "real" name we know too now, it's Caimbeul).
The book also makes Lugh Surehand seem more powerful than most other elves
think.....does he know somethign they don't?

And to go further: is there already any mention in ED of a black elevn
nation? because we have the Zulu Nation in SR now....

Quindrael
--
This is not a signature, I type it every mail again.

David "42" van Nederveen Meerkerk
Warande 128
3705 ZK Zeist
Netherlands
tel: +31 (0)30 6951487
D.N.M.vanNederveen@***.ruu.nl
http://www.fys.ruu.nl/~nederv1
Message no. 35
From: Dave Stone <dstone@******.DREAMSCAPE.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 11:50:32 -0400
On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Eve Forward wrote:
> KILL ALL THE ELVES! CONSPIRACY! KILL THEM ALL!
> (sorry)
> I tend to get like this whenever a Tir Tangerine thread comes up....
> :)
> -E

YES! LET'S DO IT!!!!;) I agree, I don't like the Elf aspect in
Shadowrun...I hate games that make elves 'ooh, ahh, look at the
immortal/just better' elf.;) Just a little peeve of mine...who always
plays humans or dwarfs!<g>

Dave

| David Stone -- dstone@******.dreamscape.com |
| "Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers shall he |
| proclaim himself, bannered across the sky in fire..." |
Message no. 36
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 15:07:58 +0100
Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
> > this is jack back and voicing his opinion again i am not quite sure
> > about one of the tir's being thera because i think that thera could
> > possibly have been atlantis before it sank back into the sea
> > explaining why they are now no longer self appointed rulers of the
> > planet.
>
> *grin* Where did you think they got the name??
> (To the uninformed... Thera was a massive volcano eruption in the
> Mediterranian, believed to be the source of the Atlantean legends. It was
> several times more powerful than Krakatoa)

Yep and the islands name was ..... Thera :) Nowadays its called
Santorini.


--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 37
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:24:15 GMT
> From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.Uni-Bremen.DE>

> Mark Steedman wrote:
> > >
> > Probably all the 4 elves behind Tir Taingire, add the one in house of
> > the sun [because she recognised a name], & Harlequin etc.
> > i would not say many but it could be over a dozen easily.
>
> Dont forget the zulu shaman from Nosferatu (Umsondo ?) and the aboriginal
> dude called Urdly (If he is still alive that is). Then there is Liam O'Connor
> (maybe he isnt quite that old, but he knows all about that drek) and the rest
> of the path of the King. We also have Aina (Harlequins girlfriend ? :),
> and the couple of Amazonian elfs (Hecate and Jungle Cat).
>
And there are probably more.
Is Aina the lady from 'worlds without end'? When is that book out
anyway as at least one list member is referencing to it and i have
not heard of it being out, considering we get sourcebooks before some
folks in the States [wonderful thing distibuters that use airmail].

Mark
Message no. 38
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:37:29 GMT
> From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.Uni-Bremen.DE>

I don't know why but this was addressed only to me, do we have a
mailer problem Jani?
Hence quoting all so long.

> > > On the contrary, the Tir Na nOg elves are the elven court (but without
> > > blood magic this time) it seems that they got themselves a new queen and
> > > so everythings peachy. The Tir Tairngire elves must be the new incarnation
> > > of the Therans. Thera was after all an elven creation (even if elves were
not
> > > a major part of the population) and Tit Tairngire is (technically speaking)
> > > no elves-only state. OTOH they have Jenna Ni'Faira who seems to be the old
> > > blood queen, hmmm
> > >
> > I have seen arguements both ways on this. The 'elf with thorns
> > picture' in Tir Taingire and thier metagene research suggest they are
> > the Blood elves but all is not at all clear. Jani quotes some of the
> > evidence for the other way arround. The guesses at the bottom of the
> > ED-SR crossover FAQ (see ED on the web), summarise a lot but i am
> > ever more suspecting that there have been elven political
> > developments between 1500odd TH (1507TH is ED, TH for Throlic
> > calender), and 2011AD, which have mixed things up. For instance the
> > 'Blood queen' could well be Jenna Ni'Faira but in the discussions in
> > the Atzlan sourcebook conversation Ehran represents the Tir Na Nog
> > and the 'Lady of the court' [elven court, ?blood or not] appears to
> > be young (born after 2011 or last 100 years spike baby) not a 4th age
> > soul.
>
> This is true, the new queen and her husband (Liam O'Connor the first
> elf to complete the path of the King) are both mere spike babies this
> is however irrelevant as they have full knowledge of the past and the
> magics of the past.
Yes Atzlan made it obvious that certain folks have been taken into
the immortals little circle, relatives/children probably.

> They got this knowledge from their initiation
> in the path of the King (read Nosferatu there is much weird stuff
> about those paths and especially the path of the King).
>
Nosferatu is on the buy/borrow and read list. Unfortunately i have a
stack of books on that list! most on the bookcase, i could happily
use several extra hours per week just for good novels.

> > Then the matter of there being Two elven courts in SR, the
> > Seelie court that heads the Tir Na Nog and the vague references to an
> > unseelie court. Wether the Seelie court is the origonal, [ie blood]
> > or a replacement the non Blood elves formed to ditch the blood elves
> > is very debateable.
>
> The original court has nothing to do with blood magic.
No they just had a problem involving a wooden Kaer and lots of Horros.

> The original
> court was a place of wisdom and knowledge and it was the center of
> the elven civilisation in the 4th world. Then came the scourge and
> the queen was forced to use blood magic and they were thusly corrupted.
And what a mess it made of the elves as a people, though a Dragon
killing the queen at one stage didn't help any.

> All elves rejected the blood queen after the scourge.
Well the Schicsm [however you spell it, no ED handy]
Not all have 'rejected' the blood elves but those that decided to use
the rites of warding are not exactly happy generally with a solution
that goes against elves and beaty as a people.

> So it seems
> only reasonable that someone would try to reestablish the glory of the
> *original* elven court - the seelie court.
>
That is perfectly reasonable and i think one of the reasons why
shooting down claims that either Tir is Blood wood reborn is so easy,
we have insufficient evidence to prove it either way.

If you are having trouble keeping up this draws heavily on info from
Earthdawn. 'And so it came to pass' in the main ED rulebook helps,
then try comparing 'Denzines of Earthdawn' volume 1 on elves and the
Tir na Nog path magic. Sr presents the paths as over multiple
lifetimes while Denzines 1 presents each as followed over 60 years of
an elfs life in order, Yes that does require about 390 years or so to
complete the path of the king. Stictly you follow a different
Discipline for each of the first four, changing your name and losing
your magic [due to how ED magic works and the importance of
'namegiving' in ED] but you get all of it on starting the path of the
King! And you thought the SR version was super powerful!

Mark
Message no. 39
From: TopCat <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:45:22 -0500
*wipes a tear from his eye*

I am so incredibly... moved... by this outpouring of hatred against the
elves of Shadowrun. I despise their kind and their machinations. Even
though my best character ever (the one I use as address and nickname) was an
elf, I never liked the NPC main-player elves one bit. Runners as elves are
no problem whatsoever, but do I ever hate the Ehran's and Harle(can't say
the rest cause I'll gag) and Laverty and the rest of their ilk.
________________________________________
Bob "TopCat" Ooton <topcat@******.net>
"If ya ain't cheating, ya ain't trying"
-- Jerry Glanville
<*<Last of the Mohicans...err Samurai>*>
________________________________________
Message no. 40
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:00:48 -0400
On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, TopCat wrote:

> ...but do I ever hate the Ehran's and Harle(can't say
> the rest cause I'll gag) and Laverty and the rest of their ilk.
^^^
What an apropos word. It sums up in a single syllable the amount
of scorn and contempt one feels towards them. "ilk." Savor the word. :)

Marc
Message no. 41
From: Craig S Dohmen <dohmen@*******.CSE.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:27:33 -0400
On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, HALOWEEN JACK wrote:

> if you check out the idea some geologists have about continental
> drift and look at most atlas's and compare the coastline of S America
> on the eastern side with that of S Africa then it may have been
> possible after all magic is magic

Yeah, but in 5000 years, at the current rate of drift, the Atlantic
would only be about 400 feet (122 meters) wider.

--Craig
Message no. 42
From: Dustin McCraw <dmccraw@*****.AIX.CALPOLY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 16:35:31 -0700
In a previous letter,
>
>On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Eve Forward wrote:
>> KILL ALL THE ELVES! CONSPIRACY! KILL THEM ALL!
>> (sorry)
>> I tend to get like this whenever a Tir Tangerine thread comes up....
>> :)
>> -E
>
> YES! LET'S DO IT!!!!;) I agree, I don't like the Elf aspect in
>Shadowrun...I hate games that make elves 'ooh, ahh, look at the
>immortal/just better' elf.;) Just a little peeve of mine...who always
>plays humans or dwarfs!<g>
>
>Dave
>

Me too!! I have countered this by having immortal dwarves as well as elves.
Dwarves are one of the least used meta-humans. I am also working on a
dwarven homeland.

dustin


--
If at first you don't succeed,
redefine success.
|-\ __.._ |\/| _|-._ _.
dmccraw@****.calpoly.edu |_/|_|_>||| ) | |(_|_| (_|\/\/
Message no. 43
From: Glenn Robertson <GLENN.ROBERTSON@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 16:56:19 -0700
> > KILL ALL THE ELVES! CONSPIRACY! KILL THEM ALL!
> > (sorry)
> > I tend to get like this whenever a Tir Tangerine thread comes up....
> > :)
> > -E
>
> YES! LET'S DO IT!!!!;) I agree, I don't like the Elf aspect in
> Shadowrun...I hate games that make elves 'ooh, ahh, look at the
> immortal/just better' elf.;) Just a little peeve of mine...who always
> plays humans or dwarfs!<g>
>
> Dave
Just remember boys and girls, bullets in the head make them every bit as
equal as everybody else! *-(

Glenn
(human player, obviously)
Message no. 44
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:44:17 -0700
Elven Conspiracy Theroy # 347:

HITLER was an Elf. Harly and Co. knew him as Hee'tell'ayre and
looked the other way when he set out to exterminate everyone who
might some day give rise to other metahumans, but for political
reasons he only targetted certain groups to begin with.

OK, this thread is now officially Dead; someone has mentioned
Hitler and by the unwritten net rules that means the discussion
has gotten ridiculous enough...

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Message no. 45
From: Simon Paul Stroud <s_sps4@*******.ITS.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 12:13:25 +1000
On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Eve Forward wrote:

> Elven Conspiracy Theroy # 347:
>
> HITLER was an Elf. Harly and Co. knew him as Hee'tell'ayre and
> looked the other way when he set out to exterminate everyone who
> might some day give rise to other metahumans, but for political
> reasons he only targetted certain groups to begin with.
>
> OK, this thread is now officially Dead; someone has mentioned
> Hitler and by the unwritten net rules that means the discussion
> has gotten ridiculous enough...
>
> :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
>
Weeellll, in Worlds Without End we do see little old Alachia hobnobbing
with Hitler's mates, so I am afraid you didn't get quite ridiculous enough.

sorry, Horus.
Message no. 46
From: Simon Paul Stroud <s_sps4@*******.ITS.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 12:20:02 +1000
On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, David van Nederveen Meerkerk wrote:
<SNIIIP>
> And to go further: is there already any mention in ED of a black elevn
> nation? because we have the Zulu Nation in SR now....
>
> Quindrael
> --
Would that perhaps be the Azania montioned in Sky Point/Vivain?

Sorry to keep the ED thread going, but does anyone know where it is so I
can subscribe to it?

Ta, Horus.
Message no. 47
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 13:02:45 +0930
Glenn Robertson wrote:
> Just remember boys and girls, bullets in the head make them every bit as
> equal as everybody else! *-(

No it doesn't... read "Never Trust An Elf". :)

(And what do you do about Vampires, then?)

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 48
From: Glenn Robertson <GLENN.ROBERTSON@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:33:25 -0700
> Glenn Robertson wrote:
> > Just remember boys and girls, bullets in the head make them every bit as
> > equal as everybody else! *-(
>
> No it doesn't... read "Never Trust An Elf". :)
>
> (And what do you do about Vampires, then?)
Oh, so sorry. I sit corrected. Hows about... 5 bullets, a stake thru
the heart, and a grenade shoved up..... ????

Is that any better? If not, I just don't wanna know! ;)

Glenn
Message no. 49
From: Allen Versfeld <aversfel@****.CS.UNP.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 07:55:10 +0200
On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Dustin McCraw wrote:
> In a previous letter,
> >On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Eve Forward wrote:

[Lots of people's comments extracted]

> >
>
> Me too!! I have countered this by having immortal dwarves as well as elves.
> Dwarves are one of the least used meta-humans. I am also working on a
> dwarven homeland.
>
> dustin
>
Could it be that my favourite race are finally getting the recognition
that they deserve? <chokes back tears>
I'm so happy! <blub><sob>

_____________________________________________
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
- Clarke
"Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology"
- Murphy
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged
demo" - Old Programmer Saying
"Any technology distinguisgable from magic is insufficiently advanced"
- Unknown
____________________________________________
mail: aversfel@****.cs.unp.ac.za
homepage: http://mars.cs.unp.ac.za/users/aversfel
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Message no. 50
From: Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 07:32:21 +0100
}Matthew P. Macstravic said on 9 Oct 95...
}
}> Gurth wrote....
}> >
}> > Tir Tairngire was already in planning before the Awakening. It's more
}> > likely that the formin of the NAN gave the elves an easier time creating
}> > their "promised land."
}> >
}> Hmmmmmm......(Consulting the history given in several SR
}> Rule/sourcebooks).....According to the timeline, the Awakening occured almo
}st
}> simultaineously (sp?) with the Great Ghost Dance of 2012. Elves and Dwarves
}
}> didn't start appearing until about 2015, and even then they were just
}> newborns and children.
}
}The Awakening is generally assumed to have taken place in 2011, when elves
}and dwarves started being born (is that good English? :)
}
}> Are you trying to say that the Elves were thinking of forming Tir Tairngire
}
}> before they even existed? That would be a good trick.

The 'elves' have existed for a number of years prior to the
Awakening, spike babies where born pre-awakening, elves like
Harliquin (if my guess is correct) as well as Erin (and a couple)
others have been around since about the Fourth Age. So the problem of
existance of elves is a slightly moot point.

Andre'

+-----------------------------------------------------------+
|It has been said that the they who stay in the shadows have|
|no soul, no depth, no moral conviction. But how can one |
|say this when, it is they who have lost themselves in the |
|search utopia. We are the realists, we work from the |
|unseen corners of society, we do what no another has the |
|strength to do, with our cybered bodies and magic extreme |
|we prevent the corruption from spreading and destroying |
|your dreams, not through power, but bullets, sweat, tears |
|and blood. All of this we do for your sake, and few nuyen. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+

-
|_|_
/ \ \ /~\/~~~~
| | | - \_/ + THUMP...Thump..thump = Boom ?
| | |
\___/
Message no. 51
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 17:30:47 +0930
Glenn Robertson wrote:
> Oh, so sorry. I sit corrected. Hows about... 5 bullets, a stake thru
> the heart, and a grenade shoved up..... ????
>
> Is that any better? If not, I just don't wanna know! ;)

No... you have to inflict SPINAL damage, not blow the shit out of them...
:)


--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 52
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 12:17:39 +0100
Robert Watkins said on 11 Oct 95...

> > Just remember boys and girls, bullets in the head make them every bit as
> > equal as everybody else! *-(
>
> (And what do you do about Vampires, then?)

You pump a 3-round burst of light pistol flechette in them every time they
try to get up, while you're waiting for your team-mate to show up with a
silver table knife :)

(No, let's not start that thread again :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Feel free, but don't feel too comfortable
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 53
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 12:17:37 +0100
Jani Fikouras said on 10 Oct 95...

> > I thought the Tir Tairngire elves were the Blood Elves? It seems pretty
> > obvious from the TT sourcebook... And for that matter, aren't the Tir na
> > nOg elves the ones who _weren't_ Blood Elves? (I don't own the Tir na nOg
> > book.)
>
> On the contrary, the Tir Na nOg elves are the elven court (but without
> blood magic this time) it seems that they got themselves a new queen and
> so everythings peachy.

What I meant to say but didn't, is that AFAIK Tir na nOg is Wyrm Wood,
while Tir Tairngire is Blood Wood, with that I mean that the elves in Tnn
are the ones who want things back as they were before the Scourge, while
the TT elves want things as they were _after_ the Scourge (though without
the thorns :)

I could very well be wrong, though. Elves and their conspiracies aren't my
favorite campaign subject :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Feel free, but don't feel too comfortable
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 54
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 18:02:09 +0100
Simon Paul Stroud wrote:
>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, David van Nederveen Meerkerk wrote:
> <SNIIIP>
> > And to go further: is there already any mention in ED of a black elevn
> > nation? because we have the Zulu Nation in SR now....
> >
> > Quindrael
> > --
> Would that perhaps be the Azania montioned in Sky Point/Vivain?

I was reading the newest ED novel (the one with the praetor) and
I came across a drink called Aztlanian something ??????

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 55
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 18:04:45 +0100
Glenn Robertson wrote:
>
> > Glenn Robertson wrote:
> > > Just remember boys and girls, bullets in the head make them every bit as
> > > equal as everybody else! *-(
> >
> > No it doesn't... read "Never Trust An Elf". :)
> >
> > (And what do you do about Vampires, then?)
> Oh, so sorry. I sit corrected. Hows about... 5 bullets, a stake thru
> the heart, and a grenade shoved up..... ????
>
> Is that any better? If not, I just don't wanna know! ;)

Bob refers to a scene were Laverty takes multiple full-auto
bursts from several corp hiters and then slumps dead to the
ground only to get back on his feet in mere minutes. Some (if not
all) of the immortals are not only immune to age and pathogens as it
seems.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 56
From: Cugel <cugel@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 19:29:23 +01.0
On 10 Oct 95 at 14:52, Jani Fikouras wrote:

> These two states have totally different outlooks, Tir Na nOg is the
> more craditionbound Court of the Elven Queen, whereas Tir Tairngire
> is more technology/magic oriented, much like Thera was.

I think your right: Tir Na nOg is Wyrmwood reincarnated.
I thought for a long time that it was Shosara, but a carefull reading and
comparing between the Bloodwood indeed makes it more than reason-
able to assume that nOg is Wyrmwood II: the structure of
the court, the Queen, the Ways, the massive growth of forrests, the veil
(there is something around Bloodwood like that also), and their heavy
emphasis on tradition.
But I don't think Taingire is Thera II. First of all Thera wasn't
elves only. As far as I remember the writer of the books of Harrow
was a elf, but the one who founded Thera was a dwarf (as usual my
memory may delude me, and the ED book is with a friend right now).
Also Thera was never dominated by elves, and I don't see the
Tairngire elves start slavery again. The reference to the island in
the lake (magician's island or something like that, isn't it?) looks a lot like
Thera, but the island that was Thera was completely magically created.

But I just got another thought from the Parlainth boxed set I saw
this weekend. Isn't there some-one who thinks the art work /
architecture on all the Theran related EarthDawn modules and every
Theran building in the EarthDawn books look a lot like Aztec
art/architecture??
Also the ancient capital of the Aztecs, Tenochtitlan, was (guess
what?) located on an isle.

Just a thought that I haven't been able to get rid of since that time...

Martin Steffens (Cugel@**.net / bdi05626@***.rhij.nl)
The Kappamaki, a whaling research ship, was currently researching the
question: How many whales can you catch in one week?
-- (Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens)
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Message no. 57
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 22:00:58 -0500
> > YES! LET'S DO IT!!!!;) I agree, I don't like the Elf aspect in
> > Shadowrun...I hate games that make elves 'ooh, ahh, look at the
> > immortal/just better' elf.;) Just a little peeve of mine...who always
> > plays humans or dwarfs!<g>
> >
> > Dave
> Just remember boys and girls, bullets in the head make them every bit as
> equal as everybody else! *-(
>
> Glenn
> (human player, obviously)
>
HMM, as an honerary member of the Chicago Elven Ancients, I feal I should take
offense, except Iv'e shot a few Tir diplomats myself...
Message no. 58
From: Simon Paul Stroud <s_sps4@*******.ITS.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 13:52:02 +1000
On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, Jani Fikouras wrote:

> Simon Paul Stroud wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, David van Nederveen Meerkerk wrote:
> > <SNIIIP>
> > > And to go further: is there already any mention in ED of a black elevn
> > > nation? because we have the Zulu Nation in SR now....
> > >
> > > Quindrael
> > > --
> > Would that perhaps be the Azania montioned in Sky Point/Vivain?
>
> I was reading the newest ED novel (the one with the praetor) and
> I came across a drink called Aztlanian something ??????
>
> --
> GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
> PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r
>
> "In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
> to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
>
Okay, so I've looked in my Sky Point bookies, and I've got one Aznan
which has a 'Cloud Mountain'-obviusly this is South Africa, and one
Araucania, which is all jungles and pyramids and is ruled by a great
dragon, or so the rumours go - Aztlan (so the dragon rumours go back ca.
10,000 years, gotta be some truth in there somewhere)

Horus.
Message no. 59
From: Simon Paul Stroud <s_sps4@*******.ITS.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 13:57:16 +1000
On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, Cugel wrote:

> But I just got another thought from the Parlainth boxed set I saw
> this weekend. Isn't there some-one who thinks the art work /
> architecture on all the Theran related EarthDawn modules and every
> Theran building in the EarthDawn books look a lot like Aztec
> art/architecture??
> Also the ancient capital of the Aztecs, Tenochtitlan, was (guess
> what?) located on an isle.
>
> Just a thought that I haven't been able to get rid of since that time...
>
Well as I just posted, Araucania is Aztlan in the ED 4th world, but "many
rumours claim that Theran magicians have learned arcane secrets while
exploring ...ruins of an earlier civilization in Araucania" (Barsavian
Vivane, p.8)

Horus.
Message no. 60
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 10:12:03 +0100
Simon Paul Stroud wrote:
>
> On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, Jani Fikouras wrote:
> > Simon Paul Stroud wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, David van Nederveen Meerkerk wrote:
> > > <SNIIIP>
> > > > And to go further: is there already any mention in ED of a black elevn
> > > > nation? because we have the Zulu Nation in SR now....

> > > Would that perhaps be the Azania montioned in Sky Point/Vivain?
> >
> > I was reading the newest ED novel (the one with the praetor) and
> > I came across a drink called Aztlanian something ??????
> >
> Okay, so I've looked in my Sky Point bookies, and I've got one Aznan
> which has a 'Cloud Mountain'-obviusly this is South Africa, and one
> Araucania, which is all jungles and pyramids and is ruled by a great
> dragon, or so the rumours go - Aztlan (so the dragon rumours go back ca.
> 10,000 years, gotta be some truth in there somewhere)

Here it is, "Shroud of Madness" p.63

"Well, sir, here's keys to everything in the household. I can make you
some kokala if you care tp take some. It's as fresh as you can get, sir,
with the master being a wizard and all."
The Aztlanian stimulant drink was not something Cassian favored, but
with his stomach protesting ...

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 61
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 10:11:30 +0100
Jani Fikouras said on 11 Oct 95...

> Bob refers to a scene were Laverty takes multiple full-auto
> bursts from several corp hiters and then slumps dead to the
> ground only to get back on his feet in mere minutes. Some (if not
> all) of the immortals are not only immune to age and pathogens as it
> seems.

A slightly more mundane answer could be (I'm not saying it is the right
one, just a possibility) that he has a Personal Detect Wounds spell
anchored to a Heal spell...
My player once came up with this but I said I had to think about it. I
never did come back to it before he forgot about it :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Thou shalt not eat the fruits of the tree known as the "Carrot Tree."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 62
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 10:46:11 +0100
Gurth wrote:
> Jani Fikouras said on 11 Oct 95...
>
> > Bob refers to a scene were Laverty takes multiple full-auto
> > bursts from several corp hiters and then slumps dead to the
> > ground only to get back on his feet in mere minutes. Some (if not
> > all) of the immortals are not only immune to age and pathogens as it
> > seems.
>
> A slightly more mundane answer could be (I'm not saying it is the right
> one, just a possibility) that he has a Personal Detect Wounds spell
> anchored to a Heal spell...
> My player once came up with this but I said I had to think about it. I
> never did come back to it before he forgot about it :)

Sounds reasonable, anyhow judging by Lavery's responce I'd say its more
than that.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 63
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 11:20:42 GMT
Jani Fikouras writes
>
> Bob refers to a scene were Laverty takes multiple full-auto
> bursts from several corp hiters and then slumps dead to the
> ground only to get back on his feet in mere minutes. Some (if not
> all) of the immortals are not only immune to age and pathogens as it
> seems.
>
Try some bullet barriers, Anchored treat spell [heck heal will do,
considering someone else the guys probably essence 8]. How about
fiegn death magic, never mind he could have a death cheat [remember
he was trained when these things were common, and could make them,
FASA we need the ED magic book!]. I have seen ED characters fall over
dead and spring back into combat at their next action, perfectly
legal, ED curing magic can get very powerful. [considering horrors it
needs to be mind, the best trick yet was the NPC, she waves her arms,
total party cureall, and all wounds!, ok so she was a 'little'
atypical, we are all worried about the critters power if the GM
thinks we need that!]

Mark
Message no. 64
From: David van Nederveen Meerkerk <D.N.M.vanNederveen@***.RUU.NL>
Subject: Tir Tairngire
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 13:16:20 +0100
I still haven't read ED yet since my last post :-), but I think from
what I decipher from all your posts I can get a good picture of
everything (I think I'll be buying ED very soon now...first on my list
after lots of other things 8-)=

Remember that Tir Tairngire is called "the fallen ones" by Tir na nOg.
That seems to me (from your describings) to be the blood wood. Throw in
the fact that Allachia (sp?), the blood queen (as far as I understand
from Worlds without End), is a prince of TT. She's just not in charge
anymore (but still quite a good manipulator). Just strange is that she's
ALSO on good terms with the other Tir (we met her even first in that
country....)
I hope I'll get a clear picture after reading ED and some of its
sourcebooks/boxes....

Quin
--
This is not a signature, I type it every mail again.

David "42" van Nederveen Meerkerk
Warande 128
3705 ZK Zeist
Netherlands
tel: +31 (0)30 6951487
D.N.M.vanNederveen@***.ruu.nl
http://www.fys.ruu.nl/~nederv1
Message no. 65
From: "Matthew P. Macstravic" <s0238115@********.MONMOUTH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 20:03:48 EDT
>
> *wipes a tear from his eye*
>
> I am so incredibly... moved... by this outpouring of hatred against the
> elves of Shadowrun. I despise their kind and their machinations. Even
> though my best character ever (the one I use as address and nickname) was an
> elf, I never liked the NPC main-player elves one bit. Runners as elves are
> no problem whatsoever, but do I ever hate the Ehran's and Harle(can't say
> the rest cause I'll gag) and Laverty and the rest of their ilk.
> ________________________________________
>
I have to go with the Cat on this one, folks. *Prepares his Flame-resistant
armor* Elves have becme the biggest pain in the arse for all SR players. With
their extended politcl scheme and belief that they are God's gift to the
world, (Whoever ther god is) elves are becoming more of a nuisence (sp? I
know it's wrong) than a help to the game.

NightStorm

"We have to rid the world of all the Pointy-Eared Freaks,
Warty-Knuckle-Draggers, and most of all, thse Short, Balding Faggots!!!!!!" -
Humanis Policlub Member (All of them)
Message no. 66
From: dhinkley@***.org
Subject: Tir Tairngire
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 23:41:31 -0800 (PST)
Did you hear the latest from Tir Tairngire? They have developed a new
sound reproduction system using compressed vegetable matter. The are going to
call them....Elfish Pressed-Leaves Records
Message no. 67
From: h_laws@**********.utas.edu.au (Mad Hamish)
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:00:05 +1100
>
> Did you hear the latest from Tir Tairngire? They have developed a new
>sound reproduction system using compressed vegetable matter. The are going to
>call them....Elfish Pressed-Leaves Records
>
What is that about?????????

****************************************************************************
The Politician's Slogan
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
****************************************************************************

Mad Hamish

Hamish Laws
h_laws@**********.sandybay.utas.edu.au
Message no. 68
From: Nathan Walker <NTWALKER@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 03:03:44 -0500 (EST)
Klingon Name: Captain K'vort, Commander, DSF C7 "Victory"
MIME: We shoot them here.

> Did you hear the latest from Tir Tairngire? They have developed a new
>sound reproduction system using compressed vegetable matter. The are going to
>call them....Elfish Pressed-Leaves Records

That was evil...

As a matter of fact, I think that's deserving of a THWAP!

So...

THWAP!

And don't do it again.... :)

>>>>>>> Nate, who is just one giant, walking THWAP!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| NTWalker@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US |
| |
| I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. |
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Message no. 69
From: "R.L.H." <hernan@*****.edu>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 08:40:16 -0600 (CST)
Von dhinkley@***.org wrote:

>
> Did you hear the latest from Tir Tairngire? They have developed a new
> sound reproduction system using compressed vegetable matter. The are going to
> call them....Elfish Pressed-Leaves Records

An appropriation of Armaments, Chapter II, verses 9 to 21:

For the words of ruinous puns did spread o'er the virtual reality
countryside, and a mighty crusader, Saint Doom, did betake himself
unto the venue of the offending individual, and he did taketh with
him the blessed fish, being held to be by the authorities and scribes
to be most holy in such circumstances, and Saint Doom did raise the
fish on high, saying,

"Oh Lord, bless this, Thy carp, that with it Thou mayest THWAP Thine
enemies into tiny bits, in Thy Mercy. . . ."

Carpe Cyprinum!

TTTTTTTTTT HH HH WW WW AA PPPPPPP || ||
TT HH HH WW WW AAAA PP PP || ||
TT HH HH WW WW AA AA PP PP || ||
TT HHHHHHHH WW WW WW AA AA PPPPPPP || ||
TT HH HH WW WW WW AAAAAAAA PP || ||
TT HH HH WWWWWWWW AA AA PP
TT HH HH WW WW AA AA PP .. ..

[ wet carp noise ]

"And thy foe, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."


Colonel Count von Hohenzollern und von Doom, DMSc, DSc, PhD.

Doom Technologies & Weapon Systems -- Dark Thought Publications
>>> Working on solutions best left in the dark.
<<<
[ Doctor Doom : hernan@*****.edu ]
< http://http.tamu.edu:8000/~ldk1083/doom/index.html >
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
"Attack, attack, and when in doubt, ATTACK!" -- Frederick the Great of Prussia
Message no. 70
From: James Meiers <polbdm@***.unm.edu>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:13:16 -0700 (MST)
On Fri, 5 Jan 1996, Mad Hamish wrote:

> >
> > Did you hear the latest from Tir Tairngire? They have developed a new
> >sound reproduction system using compressed vegetable matter. The are going to
> >call them....Elfish Pressed-Leaves Records
> >
> What is that about?????????
Very funny, although I doubt many people get the joke.(Hint: Say the
record company's name really fast)
>
> ****************************************************************************
> The Politician's Slogan
> 'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
> of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
> Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
That would explain Bill Clinton.
> ****************************************************************************
>
> Mad Hamish
>
> Hamish Laws
> h_laws@**********.sandybay.utas.edu.au
>
>
>
Message no. 71
From: Nathan Walker <NTWALKER@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 15:06:45 -0500 (EST)
Klingon Name: Captain K'vort, Commander, DSF C7 "Victory"
MIME: We shoot them here.

>An appropriation of Armaments, Chapter II, verses 9 to 21:

Ummm... Do you suppose you might send me a copy of this Holy Book?
I didn't get one when I signed on...

>>>>>>>>> Nate was here, mostly.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| NTWalker@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US |
| |
| I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. |
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s:- a--->? C++++ UV+>++++ P+>++++ L- E-- W+++ N o? K? w--- O? M--
V++>- PS PE Y+ PGP? t+++(-) 5++ X R++ tv+ b+++ DI? D++ G++ e>++ h*>++ !r y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 72
From: Karl-Heinz Dewenter <khd@****.atlas.de>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 10:01:39 +0100
James Meiers writes:
>
>
> On Fri, 5 Jan 1996, Mad Hamish wrote:
>
> > ****************************************************************************
> > The Politician's Slogan
> > 'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
> > of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
> > Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
> That would explain Bill Clinton.

Isn't it the explanation for all elected governments etc. ?

Perhaps not. You forgot the power of the corporations, I think.

Karl-Heinz Dewenter
khd@******.atlas.de
Message no. 73
From: "John Stoneham" <kismet@********.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:43:58 +0000
On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Marizhavashti Kali wrote:

> I was looking for this book recently, and I was told it was
> out-of-print... Why, oh why, does Fasa write a book that is, to some
> extent, necessary for a full understanding of the world, and then let it
> go out of print?

(...same for harlequin...)

It drives prices up for the copies that do exist... ?

We need... Harlequin v2.0... or something.

(Currently my GM has my copy of Harlequin... i saw a chance to get it
through rec.games.frp.marketplace ($5 including postage... can't beat
that) so I jumped at it... only problem is he is sorta running it
right now :)...)

Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w :q :wq :wq! ^d X
exit X Q ^C ^? :quitbye CtrlAltDel ~~q :~q logout save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H man vi ^@ ^L ^[c ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help helpquit ^D
mhelp ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d

NOTE: For all those who do not understand and who are considering
mailing me about why my computer always screws up or to say, "Don't you
hate it when that happens," the above is a JOKE. Have a nice day! :)
Message no. 74
From: Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@********.com>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 16:19:59 -0800 (PST)
On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, John Stoneham wrote:

> (...same for harlequin...)
> It drives prices up for the copies that do exist... ?
> We need... Harlequin v2.0... or something.

Absi-tively.

Prices? Nah... It drives irritation up.

> (Currently my GM has my copy of Harlequin... i saw a chance to get it
> through rec.games.frp.marketplace ($5 including postage... can't beat
> that) so I jumped at it... only problem is he is sorta running it
> right now :)...)

Whoops...

> NOTE: For all those who do not understand and who are considering
> mailing me about why my computer always screws up or to say, "Don't you
> hate it when that happens," the above is a JOKE. Have a nice day! :)

Oh, dear...

Deirdre M. Brooks | xenya@********.com | Marizhavashti Kali
"Whose religion is this?" "It's not a religion, it's a cult."
"Whose cult
is this?" "It's Hubbard's cult, baby." "Who's Hubbard?"
"Hubbard's dead,
baby. Hubbard's dead." -Meme-
Message no. 75
From: Matthew Johnson <mjohnson@*.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:57:42 -0700
I have a friend who is really looking for Tir Tairngire sourcebook, but
can't find it at any RPG stores. I'm sure she would be willing to part with
money to get a hold of a copy if someone wanted to rid themselves of one.

---------------------------
Matthew Johnson
mjohnson@*.arizona.edu
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~mjohnson
ftp://150.135.184.121 login: anonymous pw: email
----------------------------
Message no. 76
From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
Subject: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:25:34 +0200
How do you pronounce "Tairngire"?

BlueDrake
Message no. 77
From: Dan Gelinske <dunkelzahn@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:36:19 -0700
At 10:25 PM 7/6/98 +0200, you wrote:
>How do you pronounce "Tairngire"?

I believe that on Dvixen's page there is a .wav file that pronounces it
correctly. Haven't seen it in a while, so I dont know if she got rid of
it, or what...

Dan Gelinske aka Nebiru
Message no. 78
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:15:15 -0600
At 22:25 06/07/98 +0200, you wrote:
>How do you pronounce "Tairngire"?

Dvixen's page should have a .wav file of it somewhere --
http://www.coastnet.com/~dvixen is the address to her page, but you'll have
to pook around to find it.

-Adam J
Who just says Tangerine / And his players know what he means
-
< http://www.interware.it/users/adamj / ICQ# 2350330 / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / TSS Productions >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< The Entity responsible for the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball >
Message no. 79
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 05:28:43 -0700
Wiebke & Birger Timm wrote:

> How do you pronounce "Tairngire"?

"Tairngire"? :)

From what I understand, it's adapted (but not taken) from Irish Gaelic.
I've always pronounced it "Tear-nuh-jeer", which is horribly wrong.
I'll go with Adam's 'tangerine' from now on.


- Matt

------------------------------------
Quid gignitur ex hyaena et psittaco?
Animal uiribus ridendi in ioca sua eximum.

GridSec: SRCard / Freedonian Research Assistant
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 80
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:26:42 -0700
At 05:28 AM 7/7/98 , you wrote:
>Wiebke & Birger Timm wrote:
>
>> How do you pronounce "Tairngire"?
>
>"Tairngire"? :)
>
>>From what I understand, it's adapted (but not taken) from Irish Gaelic.
>I've always pronounced it "Tear-nuh-jeer", which is horribly wrong.
>I'll go with Adam's 'tangerine' from now on.

Actually, even Adam says it slightly off. ;) (And I coached him, this
scares me.)

Tir Tairngire
Cheeyr Tairngeeruh (Tairn rhymes with Cairn, bairn, both Gaelic words. Gee
rhymes with guitar, r is trilled/rolled, uh is the sound a dumb troll
makes. ;)-

Look for a .wav on my site in the next day.



-Dvixen
dvixen@********.com
Message no. 81
From: William Ashe <wmashe@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:05:12 -0700
>Look for a .wav on my site in the next day.
>
>
>
>-Dvixen
>dvixen@********.com

I thought you already had one? Someone did, and I can't remember the URL
(Doh?) AFAIK it sounded like ...
ahem "teer .. taieen .. geere" please note, I can't find the URL and I'm
working off of memory, I can hook up with a freind or two who do the
Highland Games who could try a more literal pronunciation (from Gaelic NOT
modern Welsh ... it may a trivial distinction but important IMHO).


Regards
Bright-Light
http://freeweb.pdq.net/wmashe/shadowrun.html (fiction site updated)
Message no. 82
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:11:55 -0700
At 10:05 PM 7/6/98 , you wrote:
>>Look for a .wav on my site in the next day.

>I thought you already had one? Someone did, and I can't remember the URL
[snip]

It was me, although when I'd redone my site, I forgot to link it in. :/
It's there now, select Shadowrun, then Misc Stuff.


-Dvixen
dvixen@********.com
Message no. 83
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 01:06:33 EDT
In a message dated 06/07/98 17:34:29 Central Daylight Time, WiebkeT@**
ONLINE.DE writes:

> How do you pronounce "Tairngire"?

I've got a copy of a wav from Dvixen's site if you want it, Blix. Mail me
off-list and I'll send it to you
Message no. 84
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" <bolthy@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:12:08 -0700
----------
> From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Tir Tairngire
> Date: Monday, July 06, 1998 1:25 PM
>
> How do you pronounce "Tairngire"?
>

Just like it's spelled.
Message no. 85
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 02:18:34 EDT
In a message dated 7/6/98 8:44:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dvixen@********.COM writes:

> Actually, even Adam says it slightly off. ;) (And I coached him, this
> scares me.)
>
> Tir Tairngire
> Cheeyr Tairngeeruh (Tairn rhymes with Cairn, bairn, both Gaelic words. Gee
> rhymes with guitar, r is trilled/rolled, uh is the sound a dumb troll
> makes. ;)-
>
Uh, pardon me, but "Tir" is pronounced "Ire", as in Ireland....no
kidding, I
am not kidding at all.

-K
Message no. 86
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:43:20 -0700
At 02:18 AM 7/7/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> Tir Tairngire
[snip]
>Uh, pardon me, but "Tir" is pronounced "Ire", as in Ireland....no
kidding, I
>am not kidding at all.

Did I say that??

Dialectal difference. ;)
-Dvixen
dvixen@********.com
Message no. 87
From: Smilin' Ted <Tuvyah@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 03:29:46 EDT
>> From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
>
>> How do you pronounce "Tairngire"?

Daisy-Chewsetts?
Message no. 88
From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:19:06 +0200
Dvixen wrote:

> Tir Tairngire
> Cheeyr Tairngeeruh (Tairn rhymes with Cairn, bairn, both Gaelic words. Gee
> rhymes with guitar, r is trilled/rolled, uh is the sound a dumb troll
> makes. ;)-
>

Well, I think I'll take this one with "Ire" instead of "Cheeyr"
because this is
another word I don't know how to pronounce ;) (as there seem to be countless
pronounciations around ;) ) Sounds good, IMO!

BlueDrake
Message no. 89
From: John W Thornton <whitewolfplayer@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:56:48 -0500
"...what once that wrote, it now is dead, but now it's legacy is ours
instead"

On Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:25:34 +0200 Wiebke & Birger Timm
<WiebkeT@********.DE> writes:
>How do you pronounce "Tairngire"?
>
>BlueDrake
>
I think its pronounced "Ire Ta-nigh-er" I defintely know Tir is prounced
Ire cause Tir na' N'og Is pronounced "Ire na Nog"

_____________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 90
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:08:40 +0000
and thus did Wiebke & Birger Timm speak on 6 Jul 98 at 22:25:

> How do you pronounce "Tairngire"?

Okay, everybody seems to be having a slightly different way of
pronouncing it, which is not suprising since there are hundreds of
Irish dialects, plus it was never much of a written language.

I spoke to three Irish speakers, two of them native speakers and they
all merrily came up with a slightly different way and then spend the
rest of the hour discussing it with each other :).

I sneaked away with an Irish dictionary and that one had a
pronunciation which matched my most learned Irish friend (she had a
BA in Irish) so I am going to stick to that one, if I ever manage to
get my tongue around it:

Tjeerj Tarahng'-g'ahrjah

ah is a short a as in about
g' sounds as the g in egg
Both the tj and the rj have no similar sound in English (or in my
vocal chords for that matter).

Both Tir names have been taken from Irish / Celtic mythology and Tir
Tairngire means Land of Promise (lit. Land that was Promised
in a Prophesy) and Tir na n'Og means Land of Youth (lit. Land of the
Young).

BTW, for those interested, i.e. every male chauvinist, there's also a
Tir inna mBan, the supernatural Land of Women in Celtic mythology,
so who knows what FASA might do with that ;)


Martin,
(The Trivia Buff <strikes again!/ha:ha:ha>)
Message no. 91
From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:53:32 +0200
Martin Steffens wrote:

> I spoke to three Irish speakers, two of them native speakers and they
> all merrily came up with a slightly different way and then spend the
> rest of the hour discussing it with each other :).

<LOL>

>
>
> Tjeerj Tarahng'-g'ahrjah
>
> ah is a short a as in about
> g' sounds as the g in egg
> Both the tj and the rj have no similar sound in English (or in my
> vocal chords for that matter).

What a pity that there aren't any phonetic transcription signs in
ASCII-code...would be much help I suppose.
What comes near to tj and rj ? Is it a kind of hiss like in fish?

Blix
Message no. 92
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:39:40 +0000
and thus did Wiebke & Birger Timm speak on 8 Jul 98 at 17:53:

> > Both the tj and the rj have no similar sound in English (or in my
> > vocal chords for that matter).
>
> What a pity that there aren't any phonetic transcription signs in
> ASCII-code...would be much help I suppose.
> What comes near to tj and rj ? Is it a kind of hiss like in fish?

Not really, I've been looking for a good way to represent phonetics
too. The rj sound is a fairly soft r ending in a j sound the tj
follows the same technique. If I remember correctly Russian has a
letter that sounds like the tj, if that's any help.

Martin,
(The Trivia Buff <strikes again!/ha:ha:ha>)
Message no. 93
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:48:09 -0600
Wiebke & Birger Timm wrote:
/
/ What a pity that there aren't any phonetic transcription signs in
/ ASCII-code...would be much help I suppose.
/ What comes near to tj and rj ? Is it a kind of hiss like in fish?
/
/ Blix

I'll see what Text Ole does with it :)

-David
--
"If I told you, then I'd have to pull a Shadowrun against you. Sorry."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 94
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 01:44:25 +0100
In article <199807082048.OAA23930@******.carl.org>, David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG> writes
>Wiebke & Birger Timm wrote:
>/
>/ What a pity that there aren't any phonetic transcription signs in
>/ ASCII-code...would be much help I suppose.
>/ What comes near to tj and rj ? Is it a kind of hiss like in fish?
>/
>/ Blix
>
>I'll see what Text Ole does with it :)

ROTFLMAO - Choke. :)


--
Avenger
http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk/index.htm
(Newbies Survival Guide to Stk & SR stuff)
http://freespace.virgin.net/p.siems/index.htm
(UK Survival Guide, SR Guide to the Oceans.)
Message no. 95
From: wafflemiester <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 17:43:05 -0500
> Re: Tir Tairngire (John W Thornton , Tue 11:56)
>
> "...what once that wrote, it now is dead, but now it's legacy is ours
> instead"
>
> On Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:25:34 +0200 Wiebke & Birger Timm
> <WiebkeT@********.DE> writes:
> >How do you pronounce "Tairngire"?
> >
> >BlueDrake
> >
> I think its pronounced "Ire Ta-nigh-er" I defintely know Tir is prounced
> Ire cause Tir na' N'og Is pronounced "Ire na Nog"

Just to make this a real woodchuck sized thread, I'll add that I think
the easiest American bastardization (afaik) is that "T" sounds like
rolled "H's", and "G" sounds like "K", and all the
"I's" are longer
vowels (use a bad "tailon" accent, if you watch E.F.C.). That makes it
"Hear Hairnkiiree", which should at least make you worry about any REAL
Sprethiel sounds like.

-Mongoose-
Message no. 96
From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:00:27 +0200
wafflemiester wrote:

>
>
> Just to make this a real woodchuck sized thread, I'll add that I think
> the easiest American bastardization (afaik) is that "T" sounds like
> rolled "H's", and "G" sounds like "K", and all the
"I's" are longer
> vowels (use a bad "tailon" accent, if you watch E.F.C.). That makes it
> "Hear Hairnkiiree", which should at least make you worry about any REAL
> Sprethiel sounds like.
>
> -Mongoose-

At least I can't complain about having no choice...
Since everybody seems to have an own pronunciation now I'm thinking about
developping one on my own...I'll put all the characters in a bag, shuffle them
and then draw one after another without looking at them. And if the word that
will result, will be at least nearly speakable without breaking your tongue, I'll
take it...;-)

Blix (hopelessly confused by now ;-) )
Message no. 97
From: James Dillane <lakashim@*******.COM>
Subject: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:07:50 PDT
Hey,

I happen to be one of the long time collectors of Shadowrun and have the
first Tir book. This is a couple of questions to anyone else who has it.

After reading the section on social rank, one of my players wanted to
know if he could make a character of ducal rank. I thought about it and
decided to steal the rules/ scale from Shadow Beat for rocker fame and
use it's scale to price ranks. This may sound cheap, but i am not
running many games in Tir. It wouldn't come into play. Does this idea
sound okay?

Also i remember reading in a follow up supplement that the rite of
progression was delayed in 2057. Is this true, and if so which book and
why did it happen? When did the postponed rite take place?

Thanks again for all the Help.

"Sipping from the Spring of Immortality is only the Beginning..." Psalm
of Ananda


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 98
From: Matt Penn <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:44:33 -0400
On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:07:50 PDT James Dillane <lakashim@*******.COM>
writes:

>I happen to be one of the long time collectors of Shadowrun and have the
>first Tir book. This is a couple of questions to anyone else who has it.

I happen to be one of the new collectors of Shadowrun and have the first
Tir book. I consider myself lucky. <g>

>After reading the section on social rank, one of my players wanted to
>know if he could make a character of ducal rank. I thought about it and
>decided to steal the rules/ scale from Shadow Beat for rocker fame and
>use it's scale to price ranks. This may sound cheap, but i am not
>running many games in Tir. It wouldn't come into play. Does this idea
>sound okay?

It sounds fine to me, but there really doesn't seem to be much point with
him getting Ducal rank and spending the wad of nuyen if he's not going to
be in the Tir that much.
Even the other PCs wouldn't care. "Yeah, yeah...Duke Elf...whatever."
Of course, if he really wants to spend the nuyen, you can lord it over
him when he runs out of ammo.

>Also i remember reading in a follow up supplement that the rite of
>progression was delayed in 2057. Is this true, and if so which book and
>why did it happen? When did the postponed rite take place?

Hmm. I don't know, myself. I can't recall ever hearing any of the books
mentioning it, so I just assumed it happened and nothing really out of
the ordinary happened, except maybe Ehran getting drunk at the banquet.

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
"Dem elves, dey make one drek-hot drink. <hiccup>"

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Message no. 99
From: Drew Curtis <dcurtis@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:18:33 -0400
On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Matt Penn wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:07:50 PDT James Dillane <lakashim@*******.COM>
> writes:
>
> >After reading the section on social rank, one of my players wanted to
> >know if he could make a character of ducal rank. I thought about it and
> >decided to steal the rules/ scale from Shadow Beat for rocker fame and
> >use it's scale to price ranks. This may sound cheap, but i am not
> >running many games in Tir. It wouldn't come into play. Does this idea
> >sound okay?
>
> It sounds fine to me, but there really doesn't seem to be much point with
> him getting Ducal rank and spending the wad of nuyen if he's not going to
> be in the Tir that much.
> Even the other PCs wouldn't care. "Yeah, yeah...Duke Elf...whatever."
> Of course, if he really wants to spend the nuyen, you can lord it over
> him when he runs out of ammo.
>
The point is roleplaying. I had a player do this in a campaign of mine.
It's actually more trouble than its worth, imagine the disdain the other
nobles would have toward someone who hobnobbed with lifelifes in the
sprawl. This status was actually more trouble than it was worth for my
player's character, but we all enjoyed the unique background he'd come up
with.

Drew Curtis, President, Digital Crescent, Incorporated
http://www.dcr.net (502) 226 3376 Internet and Software Design services.
Offering dial-up Access from Frankfort to Louisville and all points between.
Message no. 100
From: "Blair A. Monroe" <bmonroe@******.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:12:25 -0400
At 07:07 AM 8/12/98 PDT, you wrote:
>Hey,
>
>I happen to be one of the long time collectors of Shadowrun and have the
>first Tir book. This is a couple of questions to anyone else who has it.
>

Same here.

>After reading the section on social rank, one of my players wanted to
>know if he could make a character of ducal rank. I thought about it and
>decided to steal the rules/ scale from Shadow Beat for rocker fame and
>use it's scale to price ranks. This may sound cheap, but i am not
>running many games in Tir. It wouldn't come into play. Does this idea
>sound okay?
>

Sounds like a good model to follow to me...especially since it associates
lifestyle and "notoriety" with the rank. This way a Duke (who, IIRC,
receive a grant of property from the Tir government) would have a steady
income beyond running, but that income would come at the cost being know as
a duke of the Tir within the appropriate circles. This could result in the
character being saddled with responsibilities, becoming a target and so on.

In one of my previous campaigns I had a character who discovered that she
had inherited the rank of Duke from her father. I then put the PCs through
hell to keep her alive long enough to claim it publicly (which was followed
by the character's retirement due to my imminent graduation).

>Also i remember reading in a follow up supplement that the rite of
>progression was delayed in 2057. Is this true, and if so which book and
>why did it happen? When did the postponed rite take place?
>

I have to admit I do not know about this either. I vaguely remember a
reference to it being postponed, but cannot recall any details. Maybe it
was mentioned in one of the novels I have not read. <shrug>

-- Blair


------
Blair A. Monroe
Web Developer / Information Professional / Gamemaster
E-mail: bmonroe@******.fsu.edu
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~bmonroe/
Message no. 101
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:55:49 EDT
In a message dated 8/12/98 7:08:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
lakashim@*******.COM writes:
<snip the duke part, others have addressed it well enough as have you>


> Also i remember reading in a follow up supplement that the rite of
> progression was delayed in 2057. Is this true, and if so which book and
> why did it happen? When did the postponed rite take place?
I am not sure where, but I do remember that it was postponed Indefinetly.
there have not been any, nor do they have any planned. I will post if I find
where I read it, sorry.
Message no. 102
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:23:03 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-12 10:48:07 EDT, you write:

> Even the other PCs wouldn't care. "Yeah, yeah...Duke Elf...whatever."
> Of course, if he really wants to spend the nuyen, you can lord it over
> him when he runs out of ammo.

Duke, duke, duke,
Duke of Elf
duke, duke
Duke of Elf
duke, duke
Duke of Elf
duke, duke

As I mince through this world
No one can talk to the Duke of Elf
and as I mince through my Dukedom...


Sorry.

Nexx
Message no. 103
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:51:23 -0400
At 06:23 PM 8/12/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-08-12 10:48:07 EDT, you write:
>
>> Even the other PCs wouldn't care. "Yeah, yeah...Duke Elf...whatever."
>> Of course, if he really wants to spend the nuyen, you can lord it over
>> him when he runs out of ammo.
>
>Duke, duke, duke,
duke, duke, duke, duke, duke, duke, duke, Elf!!

Or maybe it was just me that played that game...

Couldn't resist.

Erik the Impatient and Occassionally Silly
Message no. 104
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Tir Tairngire
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:09:55 -0400
James Dillane <lakashim@*******.COM> said:
> ...
> After reading the section on social rank, one of my players wanted to
> know if he could make a character of ducal rank. I thought about it and
> decided to steal the rules/ scale from Shadow Beat for rocker fame and
> use it's scale to price ranks. This may sound cheap, but i am not
> running many games in Tir. It wouldn't come into play. Does this idea
> sound okay?

Sounds OK. I just claimed my PC was a member of the low nobility due to
his high starting money, and my GM thought that was OK. Once we finally
got the Tir book, we decided he was a Lord (IIRC, the lowest of the low
nobility). Actually, his parents are Lord and Lady, and he will be if he
ever goes through the Rite of Progression. Then again, he might get
promoted to a higher rank, or demoted to a lower one.

> Also i remember reading in a follow up supplement that the rite of
> progression was delayed in 2057. Is this true, and if so which book and
> why did it happen? When did the postponed rite take place?

It shows up in Threats, one of the minor news bits at the beginning of the
book. Just a comment that the Rite of Progression as of 2057 has been
"postponed indefinitely, those wacky elves". There's no other explanation
that I recall throughout the entire book. Of course you are free to use
that or not, as you decide. It is a small enough event that it probably
won't make a difference. Keep it if it enhances the game for you.

--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-

Further Reading

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