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Message no. 1
From: "G.F.BURKE" <61940038%TAONODE@*****.CSUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: To the victorious...
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:00:00 ET
...the spoils? Exaclty who made this rule? It seems that every time
someone gets geeked one person or another exclaims (with astounding jubilance)
"I search (or more appropriately...loot) the body!" Is this AD&D or SR? In
some cases this could be understandable, maybe even justified. Say the
character is dirt poor, he could be trying to mug someone. Of course, how far
a GM will allow his character's to go is entirely up to him. But what about
the others? You know those guys on the run that search through every dead
body...even though they pulled up in a Westwind! Exactly what are they hoping
to find that they can't already afford?
Where does a character draw the line? Just because you run the shadows
doesn't mean you are a heartless, non-emotional being. Morals do have some
weight ni the game. Hell, if nothing else, (God forbid) they can aid in
shaping your character. "Aghhh...the dreaded personality!"
I can honestly say that I have not searched through anyone's
corpse...friend or foe. If there's an important clue located on the body,
then I must've missed it. But in all my experience all anyone ever found was
what the poor chummer didn't have time to pull out (his gun). Besides, if you
geek someone, don't you think you'd be wanting to leave the area and not stick
around to go rummaging through the remains?
Ideas on how to stop such practices? How 'bout the PC drops one of his
own personals byu accident...linking him to the murder? Mean? Yes. Fair?
Perhaps.
-Oni

"That's why I run around naked...nothing to steal. That is, unless you're a
street doc *ulp*."
Message no. 2
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: To the victorious... -Reply
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:30:16 -0500
[Question: how to stop players from searching every body they come across or
create?]

Rather than the rather contrived plot twist of dropping a clue at the scene of the
crime, I'd run them through adventures with strict time limits. I'd say searching a
body in a way that you don't leave covered in blood or with bloody fingerprints all
over the crime scene has to take at least ten minutes.

So, put the PCs in a nice neighborhood in which security shows up three minutes
after gunshots are heard.

Or, they have to get in, succeed in the mission and get out within an hour and a
half or so. After searching the first body is completed you say. "You find
personal belongs worth about 80 nuyen. You look at your watch. It is now 11:15"
They should get the message. If not, let the clock strike midnight and they all turn
into pumpkins.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 3
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: To the victorious...
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:59:18 -0700
AFAIK, this is a holdover from AD&D.
It drives me nuts when the PC's do this!
Esp, as you said, when they have enough money to buy their own jets!!!!
I have no idea why these goofs do it.
I'm considering having all my NPC's start carrying small dangerous
things in their pockets - Like Inferno Gerbils! :-)

Steven A. Tinner
"I don't mind if you bleed me, but don't cut at the wrists!!!!"
Message no. 4
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: To the victorious... -Reply
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 02:52:04 +1000
At 10:30 25/10/96 -0500, Mike Elkins wrote:
>
>Or, they have to get in, succeed in the mission and get out within an hour
and a
>half or so. After searching the first body is completed you say. "You find
>personal belongs worth about 80 nuyen. You look at your watch. It is now
11:15"
> They should get the message. If not, let the clock strike midnight and
they all turn
>into pumpkins.

Yeah, these types of adventures are the go. We played one which was eventually
turned into a con module called 'Ticktock'...and boy, were we every on a strict
schedule. If we didn't get it right, lots of people would died, along with my
character's (brand new) wife.

Great fun.

PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 5
From: The Lord Git Crucible <crucible@******.MUR.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: To the victorious...
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 12:33:55 +1000
On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, G.F.BURKE wrote:

> ...the spoils? Exaclty who made this rule? It seems that every time
> someone gets geeked one person or another exclaims (with astounding jubilance)
> "I search (or more appropriately...loot) the body!" Is this AD&D or
SR? In
> some cases this could be understandable, maybe even justified. Say the
> character is dirt poor, he could be trying to mug someone. Of course, how far
> a GM will allow his character's to go is entirely up to him. But what about
> the others? You know those guys on the run that search through every dead
> body...even though they pulled up in a Westwind! Exactly what are they hoping
> to find that they can't already afford?

In some cases they find some things such as passes to other
organisational headquarters or information... thats what this is all
about... finding different ways of doing things when you are on the
streets...
Ummm also it helps you get a cheap gun in case you want a backup ;)

One of my friends... (who is on this list) actually suggested making a
character that sells the body parts... hmmm maybe thats over going the
line, but it all depends on the type of character you want to be... This
is the streets in a desperate time where the lowest shadowrunners do
anything for money/information.

> Where does a character draw the line? Just because you run the shadows
> doesn't mean you are a heartless, non-emotional being. Morals do have some
> weight ni the game. Hell, if nothing else, (God forbid) they can aid in
> shaping your character. "Aghhh...the dreaded personality!"

Well... this can sort of be what character type do you want to be...
relating back to ADnD... its lawful good (yeah right as a shadowrunner?)
right to Chaotic Evil... looting the bodies all becomes your character..
how you mold it and how you want to play it.

> Besides, if you
> geek someone, don't you think you'd be wanting to leave the area and not stick
> around to go rummaging through the remains?

All depends on where, when, whose around... its kinda like you need
something from a corpse therefore you search it... important clues,
weapons and other items that you cant just pick up from somewhere else
can turn up... if its in a block of flats or something it all depends on
the security rating... of course you dont want to deal with the lone star
or a couple of hundred of his friends... but its a case of you
determining/estimating the time to spend and the nessecity.

> Ideas on how to stop such practices? How 'bout the PC drops one of his
> own personals byu accident...linking him to the murder? Mean? Yes. Fair?

Why stop it? Its a part of the game.....

Crucible...
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: To the victorious...
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 10:50:01 +0100
G.F.BURKE said on 10:00/25 Oct 96...

> ...the spoils? Exaclty who made this rule? It seems that every time
> someone gets geeked one person or another exclaims (with astounding jubilance)
> "I search (or more appropriately...loot) the body!" Is this AD&D or
SR? In
> some cases this could be understandable, maybe even justified. Say the
> character is dirt poor, he could be trying to mug someone. Of course, how far
> a GM will allow his character's to go is entirely up to him. But what about
> the others? You know those guys on the run that search through every dead
> body...even though they pulled up in a Westwind! Exactly what are they hoping
> to find that they can't already afford?

**&* mentality, this. It makes sense if the players have a hard time
making a living, are currently low on ammo, or if the bad guy they just
wasted obviously had some or another gadget they don't have but think
they can use. Apart from that...?

Stopping it can be done by making reinforcements show up when they're
looting the bodies, when the PCs don't have their guns at the ready --
that should give the newly-arrived enemy an advantage in the first turn
(let them surprise the PCs, of course).

Another option may be to let them shoot up some people who turn out to be
fitted with life-sign monitors linked to a powerful explosive charge. This
could be because some corp believes that what these fellows are guarding,
is too important to be lost to anyone, so they automatically blow it up
when the guards are dead (hey, all a good GM needs is half an excuse :)

Or, of course, you can try and talk your *players* out of it, instead of
punishing the *characters*.

> "That's why I run around naked...nothing to steal. That is, unless you're a
> street doc *ulp*."

Been there, seen that done (from the non-illustrated side of the GM's screen)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Why are wrong numbers never engaged?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: Scam <scam@******.MUR.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: To the victorious...
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:07:33 +1100
On Sat, 26 Oct 1996, The Lord Git Crucible wrote:

> One of my friends... (who is on this list) actually suggested making a
> character that sells the body parts... hmmm maybe thats over going the
> line, but it all depends on the type of character you want to be... This
> is the streets in a desperate time where the lowest shadowrunners do
> anything for money/information.

You can use my name if you want Cruc ;)

On second thoughts they probably wouldn't make a very good shadowrunner
if only because their "secondary occupation" would get in the way of
their shadowrunning or vice versa.

> > Where does a character draw the line? Just because you run the shadows
> > doesn't mean you are a heartless, non-emotional being. Morals do have some
> > weight ni the game. Hell, if nothing else, (God forbid) they can aid in
> > shaping your character. "Aghhh...the dreaded personality!"

With the group I play with, one of the GMs enjoys the plot
device of continually throwing assailants at us for no reason that
anybody playing can think of ( somehow chipped-up gangers always seem
to be able to find us no matter where we hide.....), so we kind of need
to search the bodies in a vain effort to find any clues as to Who these
ppl are, and Why they just died shooting at us (apart from the obvious
lead poisoning of course)

My twobits of justifying my character's sociopathic tendencies

Scam

PS. Oh yes ... my first sammie ate hearts so .......

*******************************************************************
VAMPIRE: I am of the Kindred. I am child of both Night and Pain....
MAGE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you're a soap bubble.
VAMPIRE: Pop!
*******************************************************************
* scam@**********.mur.csu.edu.au *
* http://itclub.mur.csu.edu.au/~scam *
*******************************************************************
Message no. 8
From: The Crucible <crucible@******.MUR.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: To the victorious...
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:29:37 +1100
> > One of my friends... (who is on this list) actually suggested making a
> > character that sells the body parts... hmmm maybe thats over going the
> > line, but it all depends on the type of character you want to be... This
> > is the streets in a desperate time where the lowest shadowrunners do
> > anything for money/information.
>
> You can use my name if you want Cruc ;)

Ummm sure... like I want to be associated with you Scammers :P
>
> On second thoughts they probably wouldn't make a very good shadowrunner
> if only because their "secondary occupation" would get in the way of
> their shadowrunning or vice versa.

Okay... here is where I dispute... this is the stage where this debate
folds in with the other one about ADnD and the points for kills... if the
character was basically a pathological murderer... and thats it... then
maybe going onto the street and killing could be something for awarding
Karma... but only if he did it in styles that changed... in a form that
suited his personality... like a serial killer...
But then again that kind of character would be useless with a
group... unless a mage had the power... or someone to control the need
for killing until it was needed....
Of course you dont need that sort of sociopath... you could
always have someone who is amoral and decides that on occasion he will...
loot the bodies literally.... but only when time permits and if they
detect cyberware or for major organs... it would need to be a quiet
place.. or one where people dont care and instead of hanging around at
the scene they throw em into a van, carve them up and dump the rest...
Basically when I play this game I see anything as possible... I
decide what to do... take the body... and try to deal with what the GM
throws at me.... sometimes you win... sometimes you lose... maybe you die...
I just dont want to see it get too repetitive and I try to throw
an idea forward that the GM wouldnt expect... that gives the players an
advantage sometimes...

Then again... I didnt get to give many ideas when my troll had an
intelligence of 2....

> My twobits of justifying my character's sociopathic tendencies

Its mainly from the person who created the character... :)

> Scam
>

Crucible

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