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Message no. 1
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Toxic Shamans and their Totems
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 22:24:27 -0800
J Roberson said:

> Wouldn't you think that if Dog, Rat, Wolf, etc. saw one
> of their fledglings going astray, they would pull the
> plug on that (toxic) shaman?

>>No. Toxic Shamans follow toxic totems, which are *not* the same as
>>their more benevolent counterparts. Toxic Dog and Dog are not the same;
>>Toxic Gator and Gator are not the same.

> Unless of course, there is some toxic aspect to the
> totems that sustains these avengers/poisoners....

>>Not exactly. They are simply different totems.

Wrong my good friend. The toxic shamans follow the same Totems as the normal
shamans. If you look in your grimoire you will notice that a) there is no
statement saying that the two are different and b) that a toxic shaman following
say Dog is a toxic Dog shaman and not a Toxic Dog shaman. What's the difference
you ask? The name of a totem is ALWAYS capitalized. By not capitalizing the
toxic in toxic Dog shaman it identifies the shaman as a follower of Dog.

As for how a shaman can become a toxic without losing his powers, it is simple.
Avengers never break the rules of their Totem. They are driven by an insane
desire to avenge the damage that man has done to nature. Poisoners on the
other hand are totally insane. Threw some drastic tramatic experience they
have turned into sick mockeries of their former selves, but even then the
dictates of the Totem are important. They just do the reverse. Poisoners are
the aspect of the Totem gone mad.

===============================================================================
See Ya in Shadows, "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."
Jason J Carter -- Deep Throat, The X-Files
The Nightstalker Carter@***.EDU
Message no. 2
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Toxic Shamans and their Totems
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 17:31:26 +1100
Jason Carter:

>Threw [through] some drastic tramatic experience they
>have turned into sick mockeries of their former selves, but even then the
>dictates of the Totem are important. They just do the reverse. Poisoners are
>the aspect of the Totem gone mad.

And the question `Why doesn't the Totem stomp the toxic shaman?' becomes
meaty indeed, since the toxic shaman usually behaves counter to important
aspects of the totem.

You have to accept that either the Totem is simultaneously sane and
insane (possible - people can be), really alien and inhuman, or that
the toxic totem is just a projection of a warped and twisted mind.

The last answer is an easy and appealing one. But I still prefer the
first two interpretations that I've suggested here.

luke
Message no. 3
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Toxic Shamans and their Totems
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 00:42:44 -0600
On Fri, 14 Jan 1994, Luke Kendall wrote:

> You have to accept that either the Totem is simultaneously sane and
> insane (possible - people can be), really alien and inhuman, or that
> the toxic totem is just a projection of a warped and twisted mind.

And in that warped mind, the toxic shaman can justify damn near
everything. See the so-called 'eco-terrorists'. They have good ends
(save the whales) just bad methods (torpedoing whaling ships).

They might follow Dove, yet consider the ends justifying the means and
thus not be in conflict with their 'totem'.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> To flame me, log on to ICBMnet and
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> target 44 09' 49" N x 93 59' 57"
W
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 4
From: Seth Buntain <enthar@*******.EECS.NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Toxic Shamans and their Totems
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 14:59:37 -0600
It is interesting to note, and not an unworthy philosophical discussion, that
all things in existance have an oppisite which defines them. Thus, toxic
totems could be part of the same totem, and allowed to exist and 'seduce'
shamans away as means of providing a duality and definition to the totem.

er... that probobly didnt make much sense. And of course, since its heavily
based on a belief system (mine) Ill add thats its IMHO and
<#include std_dscl.h>

:)
--
Seth Buntain | (Space available for nifty quote)
Enthar the Eternal email:enthar@***.edu |
(V 1.01) GE d -p+ c++ l u e+(*) m(++) s/- !n h- f+ g- w+ t+(++) r+(++) !y
"It's a damn poor man who can't spell a wyrd in more than one way!"
-Thomas Jefferson
My opinions, comments and even facts are all mine.
Message no. 5
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Toxic Shamans and their Totems
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 16:50:09 -0600
ERROR: This message seems to be empty. It is located at LOG9401B.RN::520380,263.
Message no. 6
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Toxic Shamans and their Totems
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 18:52:19 -0800
Luke said:

>>And the question `Why doesn't the Totem stomp the toxic shaman?' becomes
>>meaty indeed, since the toxic shaman usually behaves counter to important
>>aspects of the totem.

This is something I'll have to think about closely for the poisoner toxic
shaman. The Avenger on the other hand is completely faithful to his Totem.
To use the examples in the Grimoire, a toxic Eagle avenger would be deditcated
to stopping all people that abuse or damage nature. The difference between
the avenger and the average Eagle shaman is that stopping means death and
abusing nature includes such simple things as paving a road, driving a car with
and IC/Multifuel engine, or building a modern dwelling in the wilderness.
The example of a Poisoner is a toxic Dog shaman, who is like a rabid beast
striking out out all, even (especially?) those who he sould care for.

>>You have to accept that either the Totem is simultaneously sane and
>>insane (possible - people can be), really alien and inhuman, or that
>>the toxic totem is just a projection of a warped and twisted mind.

Sane = not insane. Insane = not sane. Yes a Totem can have sane and insane
aspects and yes they are alien and inhuman.

===============================================================================
See Ya in Shadows, "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."
Jason J Carter -- Deep Throat, The X-Files
The Nightstalker Carter@***.EDU

Further Reading

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Thwap!