Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:05:06 +0100
I HATE THIS SPELL !!!!!!!

Why can`t this damned spell be resisted?
It requieres no voluntary target, is highly dangerous, relative simple to
cast, and the caster can ignore the drain, its only S, so he will be standing
after the spell is cast.

Sorry I`m highly pissed by this spell.

Any spell, that requieres no voluntary target and is negative to the target
should be resistable.

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 2
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@*****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:33:06 -0500
Barbie <barbie@**********.COM> said:
>
> I HATE THIS SPELL !!!!!!!
>
> Why can`t this damned spell be resisted?
> It requieres no voluntary target, is highly dangerous, relative simple to
> cast, and the caster can ignore the drain, its only S, so he will be standing
> after the spell is cast.
> ...

The group I play with looked at that and made the spell resisted. We
assumed it was a typo. AFAIK, every similar type offensive spell is
resisted, so this one should be as well.

The Dog Shaman I mentioned in a previous post wants to create a
Dogball spell. That's right, area effect transform into dogs. This
spell would be WAY to powerful if it wasn't resisted.

Aztlan Flunkie: Sir, the big Game was disrupted by a mage turning all
of the players into dogs!
Aztlan Manager: Get the mages and start spilling blood, this means war!
Aztlan Flunkie: I can't sir, the mages had front row seats, and they
were caught by the spell too.
Aztlan Manager: The most powerful mages in all of Aztlan were unable
to resist a simple area-effect spell? Surely you're joking.
Aztlan Flunkie: No I'm not joking, and stop calling me Shirley!

--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
Message no. 3
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:25:17 EST
> Why can`t this damned spell be resisted?
> It requieres no voluntary target, is highly dangerous, relative
> simple to cast, and the caster can ignore the drain, its only S, so
> he will be standing after the spell is cast.

Of course. I just always played it that it is resisted by Willpower.


-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 4
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:58:16 EST
In a message dated 97-12-18 18:40:48 EST, barbie@**********.COM writes:

> I HATE THIS SPELL !!!!!!!

So we can all see...

> Why can`t this damned spell be resisted?

I guess it depends on how it is being played on the part of the GM....an
interesting possibility I will point out here momentarily...

> It requieres no voluntary target, is highly dangerous, relative simple to
> cast, and the caster can ignore the drain, its only S, so he will be
> standing
> after the spell is cast.

Oooh, sounds like a bad situation occurred somewhere in a game...(like this is
anything surprising)...

Considering the fact that Barbie is a shapeshifter, she could possibly resist
the spell with her own "Shapechanger Nature", pitting her Essence directly
against the spell that is incoming. Centering might even be allowable....

I think I have to find the spell again...I remember something being a
limitation...

-K


>
> Sorry I`m highly pissed by this spell.
>
> Any spell, that requieres no voluntary target and is negative to the target
> should be resistable.
>
Message no. 5
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:37:08 -0500
On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:05:06 +0100 Barbie <barbie@**********.COM> writes:
>I HATE THIS SPELL !!!!!!!


:) Sounds like somebody got burned with this one recently:)


--
John Pederson "Oh my God! They killed Kenny!"
aka Canthros, shapeshifter-mage --South Park
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com john.e.pederson@***********.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
Message no. 6
From: Fredrik Lindblom <fredrik.lindblom@******.KALMAR.SE>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 12:26:10 +0100
At 00:05 1997-12-19 +0100, you wrote:
>I HATE THIS SPELL !!!!!!!

<snip>

So do I. As a matter of fact I hate both transform and shapechange enough
to have simply declared that they do not exist in my game universe.

This was mainly after on of my players started doing things like turning
himself into an elephant in a nightclub and trampling people and generally
making a nuisance of himself... (long story)

I also had to deal with another munchkin mage casting increase reflexes+3
and then shapechanging into a tiger (which has 2 dice initiative). At the
time I did not think of the fact that the tiger might have 2d thanks to its
instincts, and not its physical build, so I let him do it. My mistake I
guess, but still frustrating...

So I just put a big red cross over the bloody thing, never to be used (by
me or my players) again...

And it feels soooo GOOD! :-)

/FL
Message no. 7
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:06:30 +0100
At 19-Dez-97 wrote Ereskanti:


>Oooh, sounds like a bad situation occurred somewhere in a game...(like this
is
>anything surprising)...

>Considering the fact that Barbie is a shapeshifter, she could possibly resist
>the spell with her own "Shapechanger Nature", pitting her Essence directly
>against the spell that is incoming. Centering might even be allowable....

Nope, it wasn`t Barbie. An other char of mine was the target, transformed
into an young puppy, the trown from the roof of an 10 stories high building
by an evil Vampire.
Luckily one of the group catched me before I was on my way down.
Lost equipment for over 80000Y and her talismans.
Yes, this char has the talisman geas, so no magic for awhile.
And running naked through Seattle is not a good thing to do, if you look
like a demon, or?

>I think I have to find the spell again...I remember something being a
>limitation...

Yeah, stuff will not be transformed with.....


--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:09:43 +0100
At 19-Dez-97 wrote Fredrik Lindblom:



>So do I. As a matter of fact I hate both transform and shapechange enough
>to have simply declared that they do not exist in my game universe.

>This was mainly after on of my players started doing things like turning
>himself into an elephant in a nightclub and trampling people and generally
>making a nuisance of himself... (long story)

Oh, I do it because this spell can`t be resistet as its writen, the spell
as such is just fine.

>I also had to deal with another munchkin mage casting increase reflexes+3
>and then shapechanging into a tiger (which has 2 dice initiative). At the
>time I did not think of the fact that the tiger might have 2d thanks to its
>instincts, and not its physical build, so I let him do it. My mistake I
>guess, but still frustrating...

Let me tell you this:
Reflex+3 is based on the reaction attrib, so if this changed during the
shapechange the spell will be cancel because his working base has changed.
Let him write down his successes, then see if the spell will work on the
new body, if not, spell is canceld. If yes adjust the successes acordingy
to the new successes.

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@*****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:22:22 -0500
Barbie <barbie@**********.COM> said:
> ...
> Nope, it wasn`t Barbie. An other char of mine was the target, transformed
> into an young puppy, the trown from the roof of an 10 stories high building
> by an evil Vampire...

Turnabout is fair play. If your GM rules that the spell isn't resisted,
then you learn it and cast it right back at that vampire. Start using
it on street sams, mages, Dragons, even Carp! When he realizes the
error of his ways, just say "I told you so".

Once while my group was hiding out, the Yak sent a squad of goons after
us. The GM let it slip that a Yak mage had used the Foretelling spell
to find out the best time to attack us. Of the 4 of us, 2 were sleeping,
and one was in the bathroom. My mage plans on learning the spell, and
using it the same way.

--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
Message no. 10
From: Glenn Robb <GLENNROBB@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:59:18 -0700
Barbie wrote:

> I HATE THIS SPELL !!!!!!!
>
> Why can`t this damned spell be resisted?
> It requieres no voluntary target, is highly dangerous, relative simple to
> cast, and the caster can ignore the drain, its only S, so he will be standing
> after the spell is cast.
>
> Sorry I`m highly pissed by this spell.
>
> Any spell, that requieres no voluntary target and is negative to the target
> should be resistable.

If you were talking about some other game (which I won't mention on this list,
but I will give the hint that one of the Spell Lists it uses is called Living
Change), I would probably use a racial resistance factor. But since this is
Shadowrun's little version of Polymorph, I would either use Intelligence or
Willpower for a sucessful resistance test.

— Elton Robb
Message no. 11
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:44:13 -0500
Barbie <barbie@**********.COM> wrote (re: the Transform spell)
>I HATE THIS SPELL !!!!!!!
>
>Why can`t this damned spell be resisted?
>It requieres no voluntary target, is highly dangerous, relative simple to
>cast, and the caster can ignore the drain, its only S, so he will be
standing
>after the spell is cast.
>
>Any spell, that requieres no voluntary target and is negative to the target
>should be resistable.

IMHO, ALL spells should be considered Resisted as a default, with the
following modifiers:

* Non-living targets never resist a spell, the caster's successes are used
directly.
* Living targets may always choose whether or not to resist a spell. Use Body
for Physical spells, Willpower for Mana spells or other Attribute as
specified by the spell description.
* Voluntary subject spells may be resisted, in which case the spell
automatically fails (no Test required).
* Spells where the caster is also the target are obviously never resisted
(unless the spellcaster has some serious mental issues).

So (to use to notorious examples), a target hit with a Transform spell should
resist the spell using Willpower. A target hit with Levitate Person can use
Body to resist it (I actually allow the higher of Body or Willpower for this
one). This is basically the approach I am taking for spells in SR3.

Steve K.
Message no. 12
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:03:26 EST
In a message dated 97-12-19 10:20:36 EST, barbie@**********.COM writes:

> >I think I have to find the spell again...I remember something being a
> >limitation...
>
> Yeah, stuff will not be transformed with.....
>
Actually I found what I was looking for...the original Transform Spell had a
Threshold equal to the Willpower of the individual, way back in First Ed. You
had actually exceed the Victim's Willpower for the spell to work. Basically
make the person forget what they were...

-K
Message no. 13
From: "David E. Smith" <dave@********.ML.ORG>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:11:06 +0000
On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, Fredrik Lindblom wrote:

> This was mainly after on of my players started doing things like turning
> himself into an elephant in a nightclub and trampling people and generally
> making a nuisance of himself... (long story)
There are ways to deal with munchkins like that, which I'll not dive into
here. :)

> I also had to deal with another munchkin mage casting increase reflexes+3
> and then shapechanging into a tiger (which has 2 dice initiative). At the
> time I did not think of the fact that the tiger might have 2d thanks to its
> instincts, and not its physical build, so I let him do it. My mistake I
> guess, but still frustrating...
Excessive. But, see above.

As proof that spells like this can be used and not abused:

A long time ago, a mage I had the exquisite joy of playing (who probably
should've been a shaman, but hey, I was new to the game) designed an
"Advanced Personal Shapechange" spell. Its basic point was to make life
easier for me. It allowed the caster's clothes, foci, and a small item in
each hand to shift with the caster. (Nothing bigger than a light pistol or
so.) I kept "shifted" stats for rats and such handy, as well as those of a
falcon (his personal fave). (And largely because the GM was a good friend RL
and a good-natured chum in general, it worked out to [F/2]+3 L drain. :)
Sadly, I never mastered the knack of casting spells while shifted to an
animal form. Sigh.

The point? Yeah, spells can be munchkin'ed. But there are legit uses for most
every spell too. Brendomere (the mage from the above spell) went from being a
simple street mage (ask me about my 20-dice manabolt!) to doing a lot of the
team's recon, a really useful element in extraction jobs, and a far more
interesting character to roleplay.

dave

--
David E. Smith, P O Box 324, Cape Girardeau MO USA 63702
Keywords: SciFi bureau42 Wicca Pez Linux PGP single! ;-)

Today's random Simpsons quote:
"The First Amendment does not cover burping"
-- Bart Simpson, on a chalkboard
Message no. 14
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:47:08 -0700
> Why can`t this damned spell be resisted?

All spells are resisted..This one [while it is not llisted] is
resisted with WP..That is one of the many minor errors that plague
us..Another bit that was ruled upon by DLoH 1 is the size variance
allowed of (+-)2 to Body..So there is no turning a mouse into a
whale and that sort of thing..

> It requieres no voluntary target, is highly dangerous, relative simple to
> cast, and the caster can ignore the drain, its only S, so he will be standing
> after the spell is cast.

It is one of my favorites.. :)


--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
The truth is a three edged sword. - Kosh
Message no. 15
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:06:23 +0000
On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:44:13 Steve Kenson did speak

> IMHO, ALL spells should be considered Resisted as a default, with the
> following modifiers:
>
> * Non-living targets never resist a spell, the caster's successes are used
> directly.
> * Living targets may always choose whether or not to resist a spell. Use Body
> for Physical spells, Willpower for Mana spells or other Attribute as
> specified by the spell description.
> * Voluntary subject spells may be resisted, in which case the spell
> automatically fails (no Test required).

What about somebody under control thoughts being told to resist ?
Since they know (ish) what's happening can they override the control?

> * Spells where the caster is also the target are obviously never resisted
> (unless the spellcaster has some serious mental issues).

What are the thoughts on LOS requirements for the above ?
Afterall, the mage doesn't need to put much effort into sync'ing his
own aura with his own aura.

Anybody ever considered the following use of spell defence or
shielding ?
1.) The recipient doesn't have to want to be protected, just be in
line of sight of the mage who is allocating the dice.
2.) The protection provided is designed to interfere with the
incoming spell.

Therefore, if the enemies have a mage and your PC's are damaged,
beware of the enemy mage allocating dice to your PC group.
(EGMG)
When your PC mages are casting Treat or Heal.....
And the damage they fail to heal by magic can't even be first-aided
anymore, just healed by time.

Just a thought for GM's who are upset with extensive use of those two
spells leading to characters who aren't afraid of damage.
Fox on the Net
ICQ UIN - 5239612
Message no. 16
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:36:22 -0600
On 12/19/97 16:44:13 you wrote:
>
>Barbie <barbie@**********.COM> wrote (re: the Transform spell)
>>I HATE THIS SPELL !!!!!!!
>>
>>Why can`t this damned spell be resisted?
>>It requieres no voluntary target, is highly dangerous, relative simple to
>>cast, and the caster can ignore the drain, its only S, so he will be
>standing
>>after the spell is cast.
>>
>>Any spell, that requieres no voluntary target and is negative to the target
>>should be resistable.
>
>IMHO, ALL spells should be considered Resisted as a default, with the
>following modifiers:
>
>* Non-living targets never resist a spell, the caster's successes are used
>directly.
>* Living targets may always choose whether or not to resist a spell. Use Body
>for Physical spells, Willpower for Mana spells or other Attribute as
>specified by the spell description.
>* Voluntary subject spells may be resisted, in which case the spell
>automatically fails (no Test required).
>* Spells where the caster is also the target are obviously never resisted
>(unless the spellcaster has some serious mental issues).
>
>So (to use to notorious examples), a target hit with a Transform spell should
>resist the spell using Willpower. A target hit with Levitate Person can use
>Body to resist it (I actually allow the higher of Body or Willpower for this
>one). This is basically the approach I am taking for spells in SR3.
>
A big AMEN! and a hearty seconded from here.

Argent

Rabiola@**.netcom.com
Argent - Elven Fixer Extrodinaire
It was hot, the night we burned Chrome...
Message no. 17
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 23:06:20 +0100
At 19-Dez-97 wrote Steve Kenson:



>IMHO, ALL spells should be considered Resisted as a default, with the
>following modifiers:

>* Non-living targets never resist a spell, the caster's successes are us=
ed
>directly.
>* Living targets may always choose whether or not to resist a spell. Use=
Body
>for Physical spells, Willpower for Mana spells or other Attribute as
>specified by the spell description.
>* Voluntary subject spells may be resisted, in which case the spell
>automatically fails (no Test required).
>* Spells where the caster is also the target are obviously never resiste=
d
>(unless the spellcaster has some serious mental issues).

>So (to use to notorious examples), a target hit with a Transform spell s=
hould
>resist the spell using Willpower. A target hit with Levitate Person can =
use
>Body to resist it (I actually allow the higher of Body or Willpower for =
this
>one). This is basically the approach I am taking for spells in SR3.

Thanks Steve, thats what I was saying, drop this into SR§ and much much=
poeple
will be happier.


-- =


Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 18
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 23:34:17 +0100
At 20-Dez-97 wrote GRANITE:

>> Why can`t this damned spell be resisted?

>All spells are resisted..This one [while it is not llisted] is
>resisted with WP..That is one of the many minor errors that plague
>us..Another bit that was ruled upon by DLoH 1 is the size variance
>allowed of (+-)2 to Body..So there is no turning a mouse into a
>whale and that sort of thing..

Thats with the size is a good ruling, same for the shapeshift spell :)
Yeah I like it.

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 19
From: HAUPT ULRICH FB08 <sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Transform spell ARGHHH...
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:49:06 MEZ-1MESZ
On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 Steve Kenson wrote:

> IMHO, ALL spells should be considered Resisted as a default, with the
> following modifiers:
>
> * Non-living targets never resist a spell, the caster's successes are used
> directly.

<snip talk>

What about cars resisting a Ram spell ?
Maybe it's not so good to say that "Non-living targets never resist a
spell".
Does anybody has a solution. To say that there is a general
resistance but for some spells there are no would be the old system!

Sandman

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Transform spell ARGHHH..., you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!