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Message no. 1
From: J-F Robert <Chant_Obscur@*******.FR>
Subject: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:20:02 +0200
Hi everybody,

this is my first post as I'm new on this list. I was kind of baffled
by the strangeness with which some Sr books are published in some
countries and not in others.
Here in France we have a France sourcebook written by french authors
(I heard that the same was done with Germany) yet despite the fact that
it was IMO very good, this one never was published in english. Even weirder,
I was discussing elders with a foreign friend of mine and when I started
referring to Caroline Spector's ED novels, he gave me a funny look telling
me that those never were published. Well, they were : in french !
Now he may have been misinformed but it's just not his style. So I
wanted to ask here where i was told many people in the know roamed, are
there any other sourcebooks from countries which never made it to the
english version. I don't know for others but I'd be happy as hell some
reference about places as cool as Japan or Amazonia.
If so, does anyone know if they are to be translated or if not,
where I can get my hands on them (at least the Amazonia book
as I speak portuguese)?

Thanks,

The Green Angel
Message no. 2
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:46:21 -0400
J-F Robert wrote:
> this is my first post as I'm new on this list. I was kind of
> baffled
> by the strangeness with which some Sr books are published in some
> countries and not in others.
>
It's mostly due to licensing and/or quality issues.

> Here in France we have a France sourcebook written by french
> authors
> (I heard that the same was done with Germany) yet despite the fact that
>
The original Germany sourcebook was written by germans, but when it was
translated to english lots of stuff was changed (apparently - I don't
speak german or own the english version).

> it was IMO very good, this one never was published in english. Even
> weirder,
>
From what I've heard of the France sourcebook, it was kind of silly...
Something about a zeppelin full of vampire-fighters with laser gloves?
Gave me the shivers, anyway. :-P

> I was discussing elders with a foreign friend of mine and when I started
> referring to Caroline Spector's ED novels, he gave me a funny look telling
> me that those never were published. Well, they were : in french !
>
*shrug* Haven't read any ED novels, and only 4 SR novels (Dragonheart
and Technobabel). It's a pain to translate novels (easier than poetry,
though).

> Now he may have been misinformed but it's just not his style. So I
> wanted to ask here where i was told many people in the know roamed, are
> there any other sourcebooks from countries which never made it to the
> english version. I don't know for others but I'd be happy as hell some
> reference about places as cool as Japan or Amazonia.
>
Wasn't there a Bulgaria or Romania or something? Anyway, that and
France and Germany are the only ones I know of. Keep in mind that FASA
didn't write those sourcebooks - they licensed them, so in terms of the
FASA universe they're sort of hazy as to real/realistic they are...

> If so, does anyone know if they are to be translated or if not,
> where I can get my hands on them (at least the Amazonia book
> as I speak portuguese)?
>
Nothing's been published on Amazonia, AFAIK. Or on Japan, for that
matter (which really annoys most people). In any case, FASA has stopped
doing country-specific books, moving on to the Target: XXX format where
they list basic information on several different places instead of
really detailed information on just one. The exception to this will be
the New Seattle sourcebook, but since Seattle is the default location...

James Ojaste
Message no. 3
From: Anjo Verde <Chant_Obscur@*******.FR>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:06:34 +0200
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Ojaste,James [NCR] <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Date : mercredi 16 septembre 1998 16:47
Objet : Re: Translation & Edition Oddities


>J-F Robert wrote:
>> this is my first post as I'm new on this list. I was kind of
>> baffled
>> by the strangeness with which some Sr books are published in some
>> countries and not in others.
>>
>It's mostly due to licensing and/or quality issues.
>
>> Here in France we have a France sourcebook written by french
>> authors <SNIP>

>From what I've heard of the France sourcebook, it was kind of silly...
>Something about a zeppelin full of vampire-fighters with laser gloves?
>Gave me the shivers, anyway. :-P

??????
Yes, the supplement was closer to the first Edition in spirit but that : no
way! What you're talking about is an article published in a french RPG
magazine which tried to create an alternative campaign where
the characters were modern-day Lightbringers. It was cheesy but fun,
and officially sanctioned by FASA.
The sourcebook was close to Tir Tairngire in mood and style, though
what I enjoyed most was that it had a very french feel.

>> I was discussing elders with a foreign friend of mine and when I started
>> referring to Caroline Spector's ED novels, he gave me a funny look
telling
>> me that those never were published. Well, they were : in french !

>*shrug* Haven't read any ED novels, and only 4 SR novels (Dragonheart
>and Technobabel). It's a pain to translate novels (easier than poetry,
>though).

They were interesting as they shed light on the relations between varying
power-players in the Sr universe (ex: Aina Sluage, chairperson of the Draco
Foundation and one of the planet's most powerful magic-wielders, is the
ex-wife of Tir Tairngire Council Prince Aithne Oakforest ). They're the most
interesting from a Sr perspective.

>> Now he may have been misinformed but it's just not his style. So
I
>> wanted to ask here where i was told many people in the know roamed, are
>> there any other sourcebooks from countries which never made it to the
>> english version. I don't know for others but I'd be happy as hell some
>> reference about places as cool as Japan or Amazonia.
>>

>Wasn't there a Bulgaria or Romania or something? Anyway, that and
>France and Germany are the only ones I know of. Keep in mind that FASA
>didn't write those sourcebooks - they licensed them, so in terms of the
>FASA universe they're sort of hazy as to real/realistic they are...

if there was an eastern euopean supplement, I haven't heard about it.

>> If so, does anyone know if they are to be translated or if not,
>> where I can get my hands on them (at least the Amazonia book
>> as I speak portuguese)?
>>
>Nothing's been published on Amazonia, AFAIK. Or on Japan, for that
>matter (which really annoys most people). In any case, FASA has stopped
>doing country-specific books, moving on to the Target: XXX format where
>they list basic information on several different places instead of
>really detailed information on just one. The exception to this will be
>the New Seattle sourcebook, but since Seattle is the default location...
>
>James Ojaste
>

Do you have any idea, whereas FASA itends to do a Target guide about
magically revelant locations? Just wondering, you know something like
Manaus or Rio(Amazonia), Lassa (Tibet) and Cape Town (Azania).
Or perhaps tell us more about Siberia.

Thanks for your help

J-F ROBERT
Message no. 4
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:54:32 EDT
In a message dated 9/16/98 9:02:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Chant_Obscur@*******.FR writes:

> They were interesting as they shed light on the relations between varying
> power-players in the Sr universe (ex: Aina Sluage, chairperson of the Draco
> Foundation and one of the planet's most powerful magic-wielders, is the
> ex-wife of Tir Tairngire Council Prince Aithne Oakforest ). They're the
most
> interesting from a Sr perspective.
These 2 ED novels (which were never printed in USA, though I heard germany had
them) were the two "prequels" to Worlds Without End (the SR novel) and
detailed the ED lead up to those novels.
Message no. 5
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:44:36 -0400
At 06:06 PM 9/16/98 +0200, you wrote:

>the characters were modern-day Lightbringers. It was cheesy but fun,
>and officially sanctioned by FASA.

No, they were not officially sanctioned by FASA.

Officially sanctioned implies that Mike Mulvihill looked at those materials
and gave his approval, saying those were okay and that they are official
Shadowun materials.

I'm willing to bet cash-money he didn't do that.

Just because a french company or a german company owns the license to
publish Shadowrun materials in their home country does not mean that
everything they publish is sanctioned and approved by FASA. It merely
means that FASA has given them the right to publish Shadowrun materials for
consumption in their own country.

So while you are free to use any of those materials that you so choose,
they are not and cannot be considered "canon" materials for Shadowrun, at
least until they are published by FASA itself, which is the final arbiter
of what is canon or not in their games, not any other publisher.

On a related note, all the items in the "Shadowlands" magazine were looked
at by Mike M. and had to meet his approval. However, that didn't mean that
the materials presented in "Shadowlands" can be considered canon. They
weren't officially sanctioned. They were merely approved as being
something that wouldn't destroy the game and that would fit into the
general SR universe. At best, this is what Mike did for the french stuff,
though I seriously doubt he did even that.

>Do you have any idea, whereas FASA itends to do a Target guide about
>magically revelant locations? Just wondering, you know something like
>Manaus or Rio(Amazonia), Lassa (Tibet) and Cape Town (Azania).
>Or perhaps tell us more about Siberia.

TARGET: Awakened Lands is a project that is on the table for FASA in the
future. This would be what you are looking for.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 6
From: Anjo Verde <Chant_Obscur@*******.FR>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:58:26 +0200
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Date : mercredi 16 septembre 1998 19:47
Objet : Re: Translation & Edition Oddities


>At 06:06 PM 9/16/98 +0200, you wrote:
>
>>the characters were modern-day Lightbringers. It was cheesy but fun,
>>and officially sanctioned by FASA.
>
>No, they were not officially sanctioned by FASA.
>
>Officially sanctioned implies that Mike Mulvihill looked at those materials
>and gave his approval, saying those were okay and that they are official
>Shadowun materials.
>
>I'm willing to bet cash-money he didn't do that.

>
>Snip
>
>On a related note, all the items in the "Shadowlands" magazine were looked
>at by Mike M. and had to meet his approval. However, that didn't mean that
>the materials presented in "Shadowlands" can be considered canon. They
>weren't officially sanctioned. They were merely approved as being
>something that wouldn't destroy the game and that would fit into the
>general SR universe. At best, this is what Mike did for the french stuff,
>though I seriously doubt he did even that.

Well at least they said he did.

>>Do you have any idea, whereas FASA itends to do a Target guide about
>>magically revelant locations? Just wondering, you know something like
>>Manaus or Rio(Amazonia), Lassa (Tibet) and Cape Town (Azania).
>>Or perhaps tell us more about Siberia.
>
>TARGET: Awakened Lands is a project that is on the table for FASA in the
>future. This would be what you are looking for.
>
>Erik J.

It is what I was looking for. Any idea about its content or when it might
hit the stores?


On another note, I mentioned earlier that english is not my mother tongue
(actually neither is french) so if I make a mistake when I'm trying to
explain something, please consider that these might not be the words
you would have used. Thus I used sanctioned instead of approved.

I'll take a look into this old issue if I still have it, but I distinctly
remember that the article had been submitted to FASA. Specifically
because as far as I know, the magazine (Casus Belli) didn't hold
any license regarding Sr. In France, Jeux Descartes does.
Message no. 7
From: Anjo Verde <Chant_Obscur@*******.FR>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:18:32 +0200
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Date : mercredi 16 septembre 1998 18:55
Objet : Re: Translation & Edition Oddities


>In a message dated 9/16/98 9:02:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>Chant_Obscur@*******.FR writes:
>
>> They were interesting as they shed light on the relations between varying
>> power-players in the Sr universe (ex: Aina Sluage, chairperson of the
>> Draco Foundation and one of the planet's most powerful magic-wielders,
>> is the ex-wife of Tir Tairngire Council Prince Aithne Oakforest ).
>> They're the most interesting from a Sr perspective.

>These 2 ED novels (which were never printed in USA, though I heard germany
had
>them) were the two "prequels" to Worlds Without End (the SR novel) and
>detailed the ED lead up to those novels.


Actually, having read the three novels, I'd recommend to the Sr player to
begin with Worlds Without End to keep a level of mystery about it.
Otherwise, the story will be kind of predictable, some of the wonder being
gone; like in Psychotrope where you learn all there is to know about
the otaku and the Deep Resonance.
Message no. 8
From: Peter Mikulsky <petermikulsky@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:39:50 +0200
Hm, I'm not sure, but maybe FASA had done what the german company FanPro do
about the FASA products.

Translate only bestsellers !!

So it cames that we have Cyberpirates - with warships slower than the ships
from WWII - and not the Rigger 2.
I can't say somthing about the changes between the *real* german sourcebook
and the translation becaus I have only the german version and I bought it
only for my own amusement.
I have only read only one trilogy who play actually in germany and it was
good enought for translation 'cause it has a silly plot.

-Archangel
Message no. 9
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:44:44 -0400
At 08:58 PM 9/16/98 +0200, you wrote:

>>On a related note, all the items in the "Shadowlands" magazine were
looked
>>at by Mike M. and had to meet his approval. However, that didn't mean that
>>the materials presented in "Shadowlands" can be considered canon. They
>>weren't officially sanctioned. They were merely approved as being
>>something that wouldn't destroy the game and that would fit into the
>>general SR universe. At best, this is what Mike did for the french stuff,
>>though I seriously doubt he did even that.
>
>Well at least they said he did.

I'm willing to concede that it is possible that he indeed did read those
submissions. Doesn't make them official though.

>>TARGET: Awakened Lands is a project that is on the table for FASA in the
>>future. This would be what you are looking for.
>>
>It is what I was looking for. Any idea about its content or when it might
>hit the stores?

As far as anyone outside FASA knows, it's merely a planned project. No
word on specific content or release date, to my knowledge. Guesses are
that it will have some information on both Amazonia and Azania though.

>On another note, I mentioned earlier that english is not my mother tongue
>(actually neither is french) so if I make a mistake when I'm trying to
>explain something, please consider that these might not be the words
>you would have used. Thus I used sanctioned instead of approved.

Not a big deal, really.

>I'll take a look into this old issue if I still have it, but I distinctly
>remember that the article had been submitted to FASA. Specifically
>because as far as I know, the magazine (Casus Belli) didn't hold
>any license regarding Sr. In France, Jeux Descartes does.

Submitted to FASA means nothing. Anyone can submit an article to FASA, but
that doesn't make those articles more official than any other article.
Sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, but I can't think of any plainer a way
to say it.

With the "Shadowlands" magazine, Mike M. read those articles and gave his
greenlight for publication in the magazine. Didn't make those articles or
anything that Shadowlands did official or Shadowrun canon. Like I said, it
merely meant that Mike looked at them.

To my knowledge, he was really looking at them to make sure they wouldn't
contradict anything FASA had plans for and to perhaps scope out potential
candidates for writing later on. If I wrote a good article on Amazonia for
Shadowlands, for example, he might approach me to do some work for Target:
Awakened Lands. That sort of thing.

And knowing Mike M's intense dislike for the ED/SR connection, I seriously
doubt that he would ever actually "approve" of an article that brought the
Lightbearers into Shadowrun. Let it slide for some little french magazine
(no offense), maybe. Make it official, no way on God's green earth.

Anyway...

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 10
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:03:20 +0200
And so it came to happen that Archangel wrote:

------------
> Hm, I'm not sure, but maybe FASA had done what the german company FanPro
do
> about the FASA products.
>
> Translate only bestsellers !!
>
> So it cames that we have Cyberpirates - with warships slower than the
ships
> from WWII - and not the Rigger 2.

Actually FanPro did no translation of the Rigger 2 because they knew that
SR 3rd. would be coming more or less soon. And in that fine edition there
are the rules regarding playing Riggers. Of course massive cut, no
modifikations, no new gear. Theese rules are intended for beginners (more
or less) not for the fulltime Rigger we all like to have as an asset ;o).
But nontheless enough to run vehical combat and electronic warfare.
Thats the official statement. But one thing keeps my conspiracy theory
loaded brain rumble on. There is no Rigger 2 for germans out there. But we
do have this fine new 3rd. edition. And there there are the rules for
Rigger 2. Hm, maybe we need to buy this SR 3rd...
Anyway, I see forward to "Das Spiel" in Essen, maybe FanPro will make in
time, but I really doubt it.

> I can't say somthing about the changes between the *real* german
sourcebook
> and the translation becaus I have only the german version and I bought it
> only for my own amusement.
> I have only read only one trilogy who play actually in germany and it was
> good enought for translation 'cause it has a silly plot.

Hm, they had left out all the equipment mentioned in "Deutschland in den
Schatten" (german name for "Germany Sourcebook"), redone that awkfully
artwork and cut some things out (don't ask, I do not remember). I'll think
the FASA staff thought that silly Altmeyr Shotgun which could fire
minigrenades and shotgun ammunition as well (!) a bit too overpowered. A
discision I can VERY well live with. Well, I'am known to be an absolute
"anti-germanier" in my hometown (Berlin, BTW), but that book is IMO just
overpowered. Although it is a bit of fun to read those articles over
anarchistic Berlin.


--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 11
From: Anjo Verde <Chant_Obscur@*******.FR>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:39:18 +0200
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Date : mercredi 16 septembre 1998 21:45
Objet : Re: Translation & Edition Oddities

Snip
>I'm willing to concede that it is possible that he indeed did read those
>submissions. Doesn't make them official though.

It doesn't weight more than a Shadowland article, we both agree.

Snip

>>I'll take a look into this old issue if I still have it, but I distinctly
>>remember that the article had been submitted to FASA. Specifically
>>because as far as I know, the magazine (Casus Belli) didn't hold
>>any license regarding Sr. In France, Jeux Descartes does.
>
>Submitted to FASA means nothing. Anyone can submit an article to FASA, but
>that doesn't make those articles more official than any other article.
>Sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, but I can't think of any plainer a way
>to say it.
>
>With the "Shadowlands" magazine, Mike M. read those articles and gave his
>greenlight for publication in the magazine. Didn't make those articles or
>anything that Shadowlands did official or Shadowrun canon. Like I said, it
>merely meant that Mike looked at them.
>
>To my knowledge, he was really looking at them to make sure they wouldn't
>contradict anything FASA had plans for and to perhaps scope out potential
>candidates for writing later on. If I wrote a good article on Amazonia for
>Shadowlands, for example, he might approach me to do some work for Target:
>Awakened Lands. That sort of thing.
>
>And knowing Mike M's intense dislike for the ED/SR connection, I seriously
>doubt that he would ever actually "approve" of an article that brought the
>Lightbearers into Shadowrun. Let it slide for some little french magazine
>(no offense), maybe. Make it official, no way on God's green earth.

His hatred of the ED/SR connection is legendary. But what I meant by
modern Lightbearers is secret society of good guys protecting the earth
from the evil creatures from another dimension, that kind of thing.
There wasn't a single reference to ED and their opposition being
impervious to magic, they actually battled it using bleeding edge
technology instead of spells.

BTW, it's THE french magazine on RPG so if they don't mention your game,
don't even try selling it in France. French buyers are _awfully_ picky.
>
>Anyway...
>
>Erik J.
>
Thanks for the info,

J-F Robert
Message no. 12
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:24:24 -0400
OK, quick run down on what I now regarding the "Foreign-written" sourcebooks.

This question kinda came up at the Shadowrun Q&A Seminar at Origins...

Mike Doesn;t read the foreign sourcebooks. At least not before tehy go to
print. Heck, Mike doesn;t even always read the sourcebooks, since he only
reads/speaks English. ANd the companies that make the foreign product
don't bother to send him a real translation. At best, he gets a summary.

I think Jon Szeto (Who speaks like a bazillion languages) has helped Mike
witha couple of books...

Either way, these are Licensed products. Which means that some company
says "Hey FASA. We want to make a French Sourcebook. here's some money."
FASA takes the cash and says "Go Ahead". But until the product see's print
in an official FASA produced book (WHich means an ENglish version for all
us English speaking people:)), it's not Canon.

I know specifically tehre are like half a dozen German sourcebooks (Which
they seem to have destroyed or taken over most of Europe, from what I hear
:)), a Polish Sourcebook, a French Sourcebook, and a Japan Sourcebook.

However, tehse books aren;t completely invalid. Mike said that (if he can
get a translation he can work with) when they do a foreign Taget Book using
that location, they'll look to the foreign produced book first for
information...

Anyways, that's my 2 cents... Take it for what it's worth :]

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"Can the Gummi Worms really live in peace with the Marshmallow Chicks?"
-- Pinky, "Pinky and the Brain"
Message no. 13
From: Matt T Ork <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:58:28 -0400
On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:08:35 -0400 00DNA <mcmanus@******.ALBANY.EDU>
writes:

>I feel that way...who ever is editing these books..well...needs to edit
>this books!
>It all started with Burning Bright...that was the worse edit job I've
ever
>read and it just seem to get worse from there. I wonder if FASA is
really
>pushing some of their authors a bit too far...quantity over quality.
I've
>noticed a lot of "point-of-view and tense shifts" lately. One thing I
>notice that Odom does from time to time is call someone a Troll and
later
>refer to them as Ork...hey, Mel, they're not the same thing!

Yeah. If you notice in 'Headhunters,' Skater's girlfriend's sister
switches back and forth from being a troll to an ork. Like someone said,
it's fairly obvious that while Mel's well-read about Shadowrun, he hasn't
actually played it.

Are the Battletech books better, quality-wise? Just curious...

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
***********************************
"The SR/BT connection! There's something to scare FASAMike with."

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Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:20:04 +0200
According to Matt T Ork, at 20:58 on 16 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> Are the Battletech books better, quality-wise? Just curious...

Not sure (I've read quite a few, but I only remember the quality of only
poor books -- so I'd say they're about the same as a typical SR novel) but
one thing a lot of the BT novels do that most SR ones don't, is advance
the world storyline. For example, by reading the Blood Of Kerensky trilogy
you find out about the Clans' return to the Inner Sphere. Those things are
also mentioned in sourcebooks, but not in as much detail. SR OTOH uses its
sourcebooks to advance the world, whereas BT appears to use the novels for
that a lot more.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yeah, I left with nothing but the thought you'd be there too.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: Anjo Verde <Chant_Obscur@*******.FR>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:58:27 +0200
Thanks Bull,

that's exactly what I wanted to know. So I guess the French
oligarchy will stay unofficial (unless FASA decides to include Brocéliande
in their Target: Awakened Lands project) and we'll just have to wait a
little longer for the J.I.S. sourcebook.
But what about Caroline Spector's ED novels: are they FASA cannon?
They are FASA books but were never published in English.
I know that many people enjoy FASA games in France and that if Mr
Mulvihill made it known that he is curious about the book and would like to
see an english version, he could easily get one (trust me, some people would
do anything just to see their name appear in one of the english books'
shadowtalk).

Thanks to all those who clarified all this for me,

J-F Robert

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
À : SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date : jeudi 17 septembre 1998 01:21
Objet : Re: Translation & Edition Oddities


>OK, quick run down on what I now regarding the "Foreign-written"
sourcebooks.
>This question kinda came up at the Shadowrun Q&A Seminar at Origins...
>Mike Doesn;t read the foreign sourcebooks. At least not before tehy go to
>print. Heck, Mike doesn;t even always read the sourcebooks, since he only
>reads/speaks English. ANd the companies that make the foreign product
>don't bother to send him a real translation. At best, he gets a summary.
>I think Jon Szeto (Who speaks like a bazillion languages) has helped Mike
>witha couple of books...
>Either way, these are Licensed products. Which means that some company
>says "Hey FASA. We want to make a French Sourcebook. here's some money."
>FASA takes the cash and says "Go Ahead". But until the product see's print
>in an official FASA produced book (WHich means an ENglish version for all
>us English speaking people:)), it's not Canon.
>I know specifically tehre are like half a dozen German sourcebooks (Which
>they seem to have destroyed or taken over most of Europe, from what I hear
>:)), a Polish Sourcebook, a French Sourcebook, and a Japan Sourcebook.
>However, tehse books aren;t completely invalid. Mike said that (if he can
>get a translation he can work with) when they do a foreign Taget Book using
>that location, they'll look to the foreign produced book first for
>information...
>Anyways, that's my 2 cents... Take it for what it's worth :]
>
>Bull
>--
>Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
>chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604
>
> =======================================================
> = =
> = Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
> = =
> =======================================================
>
> "Can the Gummi Worms really live in peace with the Marshmallow Chicks?"
> -- Pinky, "Pinky and the Brain"
>
Message no. 16
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:09:11 +0100
And verily, did Anjo Verde hastily scribble thusly...

A message, followed by a fully quoted long article.
<SNIP>

Please read the FAQ and abide by it's posting Guidelines!
(Sorry gridsec... couldn't resist, it was just so...irritating)
--
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| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
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Message no. 17
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:52:41 -0400
At 12:20 PM 9/17/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Not sure (I've read quite a few, but I only remember the quality of only
>poor books -- so I'd say they're about the same as a typical SR novel) but
>one thing a lot of the BT novels do that most SR ones don't, is advance
>the world storyline. For example, by reading the Blood Of Kerensky trilogy
>you find out about the Clans' return to the Inner Sphere. Those things are
>also mentioned in sourcebooks, but not in as much detail. SR OTOH uses its
>sourcebooks to advance the world, whereas BT appears to use the novels for
>that a lot more.

I don't think that I agree with that very much. Burning Bright gave the
whole breakdown on Chicago becomming Bug City. Just Compensation was a
potential war between the UCAS and CAS, and reactions to Bug City. The
Dragon Heart Trilogy definitely set the world in a different motion.
Technobable was all over the Corp War. Love it or hate it, Black Madonna
was one of the contributing factors to the Corp War.

Those are just the ones that I can think of off the top of my head. All of
these are very important to advancing the world storyline. Now, I haven't
read any of the BT books, so maybe they do it even more, but I think that
SR does a very good job of it.
Message no. 18
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:22:51 -0400
At 02:58 PM 9/17/98 +0200, Anjo Verde wrote these timeless words:
>Thanks Bull,
>
> that's exactly what I wanted to know. So I guess the French
>oligarchy will stay unofficial (unless FASA decides to include Brocéliand=
e
>in their Target: Awakened Lands project) and we'll just have to wait a
>little longer for the J.I.S. sourcebook.
>
Target: Awakened Lands, Target: Pacific Rim, and Target: Europe were all
mentioned as possible books for next year... SOunds like bits of the
French book could appear in two of those, possibly. :]

> But what about Caroline Spector's ED novels: are they FASA cannon?
>They are FASA books but were never published in English.
>
This I'm not sure about... I hadn't realized they were published at all,
which was a shame because I kinda Like World Without End (Despite the IE
:)). But I do know they weren;t published in English. But in general the
Novel's aren't really true canon (One "n". two makes it a really large gun
:)) anyways, rather, they are an additional and alternate source of
possible material (If that makes any sense). This is because sometimes the
authors make mistakes... Gobliizing Dwarves, Reading signs from astral
space, etc. Not huge mistakes, but mistakes that are made because it's
either Creative Liberty taken to further a plot, or mistakes made because
the author is somewhat unfamiliar with all the various rules and such that
make up the SR game. Many of the SR Novel authors don't play the game.
((This is, though, not a slam of the authors who's made these goofs. It
happens :))

> I know that many people enjoy FASA games in France and that if Mr
>Mulvihill made it known that he is curious about the book and would like to
>see an english version, he could easily get one (trust me, some people=
would
>do anything just to see their name appear in one of the english books'
>shadowtalk).
>
<grin>

> Thanks to all those who clarified all this for me,
>
No problems... That's one of the reasons I go to these conventions and
Pester Mike at the seminars... I usually am wondering these things
myself... :]

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604


========================
==========================
=======
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =

========================
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"Can the Gummi Worms really live in peace with the Marshmallow Chicks?"
-- Pinky, "Pinky and the Brain"
Message no. 19
From: Anjo Verde <Chant_Obscur@*******.FR>
Subject: Re: Translation & Edition Oddities
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:33:23 +0200
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>

Date : jeudi 17 septembre 1998 15:10
Objet : Re: Translation & Edition Oddities

>Please read the FAQ and abide by it's posting Guidelines!
>(Sorry gridsec... couldn't resist, it was just so...irritating)

Sorry! I'm sorry! I thought I had edited out Bull's message.
It's only the first time I'm on a mailing list an it's one of
my first messages. I won't do it again.

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