Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: 'trode net stats
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:06:17 -0400
Welp, after not finding any stats in the books, here's my take on the
'trode net. Lemme know what ya'll think.

An electrode net is a wire mesh containing dozens of sensors. When worn
on ones head, the sensors pick up the electromagnetic energy of the
brain and convert it into signals consistent with datajack standards.
These signals are broadcast through a datajack located at the rear of
the mesh net. The sensors are also capable of affecting the brains
electromagnetic energy, and therefore can perform similiar services as a
datajack. However, do to the sensors having to use conductive
properties to affect the brain instead of being wired into the brain,
the 'trode nets performance is nowhere near that of a datajack.
However, it is a viable alternative to a datajack for the magically
active.

Simsense through a 'trode net
Do to the use of conductive properties to transmit the information, all
perception tests when using a 'trode net suffer a +3 modifier.

Decking with a 'trode net
Using a 'trode net to deck is nearly as bad as using a tortoise. The
decker uses only his base reaction for initiative. Any Response
Increase's installed in the deck only give the decker the 1D6 for
initiative. The +2 reaction modifier does not apply. Also, the 'trode
net has a fixed DFR of 25Mp. It cannot be improved do to the
limitations of the conductive properties used to obtain the
information. Also, a deck cannot be run hot using a 'trode net. As
such, black IC cannot inflict lethal damage to a 'trode net user.

Rigging with a 'trode net
Rigging is effected much the same as decking. When controlling a
vehicle/drone, the 'trode net user has only their base reaction. In the
unlikely case that someone gets a VCR installed without a datajack,
treat the level of the VCR as the same level of response increase. When
calculating the negative modifiers to TN, etc, treat the VCR as one
level lower than it is.

Size and the 'trode net
'trode nets must be sized to fit the person. They are fairly general(ie
a human sized 'trode net will fit nearly any human). However, if
someone tries to use a 'trode net that is not correctly sized, depending
on the difference, the user will suffer modifiers from +1 to +4 to all
tests. That is if the 'trode net fits at all(GM's call). Also, the
DFR of the 'trode net drops by 5Mp for every +1 modifier do to the
looseness of the connection.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
Message no. 2
From: Christian Haas <firefreak@****.AT>
Subject: Re: 'trode net stats
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 22:47:19 +0200
> An electrode net is a wire mesh containing dozens of sensors. When worn
> on ones head, the sensors pick up the electromagnetic energy of the
> brain and convert it into signals consistent with datajack standards.
> These signals are broadcast through a datajack located at the rear of
> the mesh net. The sensors are also capable of affecting the brains
> electromagnetic energy, and therefore can perform similiar services as a
> datajack.

ok, picking the energy of the brain sounds ok, but, affecting,
in my opinion, could be difficult: it would mean that your
sensors get additional data (from the 'trode net) to your
'normal' sensors (eyes, ears...), thus, you would have an
overlapped picture; eg: reallife and the view from your drone...

a datajack cuts inbetween your sensors and your brain and
disables your sensors so that you receive only the data from
the other input (drone, cyberspace...)
at least as far as i know...
Message no. 3
From: Jon Szeto <JonSzeto@***.COM>
Subject: Re: 'trode net stats
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:51:36 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-13 16:24:47 EDT, baishen@**********.COM writes:

> Rigging with a 'trode net
> Rigging is effected much the same as decking. When controlling a
> vehicle/drone, the 'trode net user has only their base reaction. In the
> unlikely case that someone gets a VCR installed without a datajack,
> treat the level of the VCR as the same level of response increase. When
> calculating the negative modifiers to TN, etc, treat the VCR as one
> level lower than it is.
>

IMO you can't rig with a 'trode net at all. Without getting too complicated,
the way the VCR works (or rather, the way *I* believe it works) is by making
use of the cerebellum, pons and thalamus (all located deep inside the brain)
to coordinate myriad complex input and output signals (converted by the
cyberware from digital impulses into boichemical stimuli and responses and
back). Without a datajack, you've got no way to relay the digital signals to
the VCR (think of the datajack like a data bus, connecting the hardware in the
vehicle to the wetware in the brain.)

A character COULD (maybe) use a 'trode net to drive a vehicle through a
datajack, assuming it has a dataport installed somewhere (as per Rigger 2, p.
124). However, doing so doesn't grant ANY bonuses whatsoever: no Reaction
bonus, no Control Pool, nada. (Remember that in R2, a character with a
datajack and no VCR still gets a +1 to Reaction when driving through a
datajack.)

-- Jon
Message no. 4
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: 'trode net stats
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:07:07 +1200
Quoth Bai Shen (0406 14-8-98 NZT):

>Welp, after not finding any stats in the books, here's my take on the
>'trode net. Lemme know what ya'll think.

<<SLICE>>

>Simsense through a 'trode net
>Do to the use of conductive properties to transmit the information, all
>perception tests when using a 'trode net suffer a +3 modifier.

Huh? Okay, so you take a hit for not using true datajack-fed ASIST, but
surely it can't be _that_ bad! Personally, I'd just use a +1, but I
tend to give small modifiers great roleplaying weight anyway...

>Decking with a 'trode net
>Using a 'trode net to deck is nearly as bad as using a tortoise. The
>decker uses only his base reaction for initiative. Any Response
>Increase's installed in the deck only give the decker the 1D6 for
>initiative. The +2 reaction modifier does not apply. Also, the 'trode
>net has a fixed DFR of 25Mp. It cannot be improved do to the

These stats seem fair enough.

>limitations of the conductive properties used to obtain the
>information. Also, a deck cannot be run hot using a 'trode net. As
>such, black IC cannot inflict lethal damage to a 'trode net user.

...Not that it won't try anyway. (See _2XS_, my first and still
favourite SR novel, for how black ICe affects a man using a 'trode-net
as a hitcher-jack.)

>Rigging with a 'trode net
<<SLICE>>
Jon Szeto's just covered this (in brief: not possible).

>Size and the 'trode net
>'trode nets must be sized to fit the person. They are fairly
general(ie
>a human sized 'trode net will fit nearly any human). However, if
>someone tries to use a 'trode net that is not correctly sized,
depending
>on the difference, the user will suffer modifiers from +1 to +4 to all
>tests. That is if the 'trode net fits at all(GM's call). Also, the
>DFR of the 'trode net drops by 5Mp for every +1 modifier do to the
>looseness of the connection.

And how would you determine the modifier? (Troll using anyone else's
rig, or vice versa, would be a +4?) Most everyone's head is close to
the same size (ignoring comments about ego), so (with the exception of
the troll) any (meta)human could use any other (meta)human's 'trode rig
with only a +1, IMnsHO.

Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
'No, I'm Chaos and he's Mayhem. We're a double act.'
Message no. 5
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: 'trode net stats
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:13:46 +1200
Quoth Christian Haas (0847 14-8-98 NZT):

>> An electrode net is a wire mesh containing dozens of sensors. When
worn
>> on ones head, the sensors pick up the electromagnetic energy of the
>> brain and convert it into signals consistent with datajack standards.
>> These signals are broadcast through a datajack located at the rear of
>> the mesh net. The sensors are also capable of affecting the brains
>> electromagnetic energy, and therefore can perform similiar services
as a
>> datajack.
>
>ok, picking the energy of the brain sounds ok, but, affecting,
>in my opinion, could be difficult: it would mean that your
>sensors get additional data (from the 'trode net) to your
>'normal' sensors (eyes, ears...), thus, you would have an
>overlapped picture; eg: reallife and the view from your drone...
>
>a datajack cuts inbetween your sensors and your brain and
>disables your sensors so that you receive only the data from
>the other input (drone, cyberspace...)
>at least as far as i know...

Nope; 'trode nets act like a normal simsense feed, in that they cut off
most access to your normal sensorium while you're experiencing the
simsense. There's some loss of detail and a sense that this isn't a
'truly real' sensory record, and you can't get the full quality of any
simsense (even BTL) from a 'trode net, but it acts in all ways like a
normal simsense experience (including RAS cutout, I would think).

Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
'No, I'm Chaos and he's Mayhem. We're a double act.'
Message no. 6
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: 'trode net stats
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:22:45 -0400
> > An electrode net is a wire mesh containing dozens of sensors. When worn
> > on ones head, the sensors pick up the electromagnetic energy of the
> > brain and convert it into signals consistent with datajack standards.
> > These signals are broadcast through a datajack located at the rear of
> > the mesh net. The sensors are also capable of affecting the brains
> > electromagnetic energy, and therefore can perform similiar services as a
> > datajack.
> ok, picking the energy of the brain sounds ok, but, affecting,
> in my opinion, could be difficult: it would mean that your
> sensors get additional data (from the 'trode net) to your
> 'normal' sensors (eyes, ears...), thus, you would have an
> overlapped picture; eg: reallife and the view from your drone...
> a datajack cuts inbetween your sensors and your brain and
> disables your sensors so that you receive only the data from
> the other input (drone, cyberspace...)
> at least as far as i know...

That's what the 'trode net does. It jus' doesn't do it as well as a
datajack.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
Message no. 7
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: 'trode net stats
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:42:25 -0400
> > Rigging with a 'trode net
> > Rigging is effected much the same as decking. When controlling a
> > vehicle/drone, the 'trode net user has only their base reaction. In the
> > unlikely case that someone gets a VCR installed without a datajack,
> > treat the level of the VCR as the same level of response increase. When
> > calculating the negative modifiers to TN, etc, treat the VCR as one
> > level lower than it is.
> IMO you can't rig with a 'trode net at all. Without getting too complicated,
> the way the VCR works (or rather, the way *I* believe it works) is by making
> use of the cerebellum, pons and thalamus (all located deep inside the brain)
> to coordinate myriad complex input and output signals (converted by the
> cyberware from digital impulses into boichemical stimuli and responses and
> back). Without a datajack, you've got no way to relay the digital signals to
> the VCR (think of the datajack like a data bus, connecting the hardware in the
> vehicle to the wetware in the brain.)

Welp, I simply extrapolated on the decking rules. As always, YMMV.

> A character COULD (maybe) use a 'trode net to drive a vehicle through a
> datajack, assuming it has a dataport installed somewhere (as per Rigger 2, p.
> 124). However, doing so doesn't grant ANY bonuses whatsoever: no Reaction
> bonus, no Control Pool, nada. (Remember that in R2, a character with a
> datajack and no VCR still gets a +1 to Reaction when driving through a
> datajack.)

That's what the normal reaction only(no init die) was. I see the 'trode
net as somewhere between a turtle, an' a datajack.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
Message no. 8
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: 'trode net stats
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:48:09 -0400
> >Simsense through a 'trode net
> >Do to the use of conductive properties to transmit the information, all
> >perception tests when using a 'trode net suffer a +3 modifier.
> Huh? Okay, so you take a hit for not using true datajack-fed ASIST, but
> surely it can't be _that_ bad! Personally, I'd just use a +1, but I
> tend to give small modifiers great roleplaying weight anyway...

Welp, Shadowbeat does describe experiencing simsense through a 'trode
net akin to taking a shower with armor on. It's really a GM's call as
to how much of a penalty to place on the perception tests.

> >Decking with a 'trode net
> >Using a 'trode net to deck is nearly as bad as using a tortoise. The
> >decker uses only his base reaction for initiative. Any Response
> >Increase's installed in the deck only give the decker the 1D6 for
> >initiative. The +2 reaction modifier does not apply. Also, the 'trode
> >net has a fixed DFR of 25Mp. It cannot be improved do to the
> These stats seem fair enough.

Thanks.

> >limitations of the conductive properties used to obtain the
> >information. Also, a deck cannot be run hot using a 'trode net. As
> >such, black IC cannot inflict lethal damage to a 'trode net user.
> ...Not that it won't try anyway. (See _2XS_, my first and still
> favourite SR novel, for how black ICe affects a man using a 'trode-net
> as a hitcher-jack.)

If I get a chance I might read it. Anyways, jus' 'cause the IC can't
inflict lethal damage, doesn't mean that it can't inflict damage. It
jus' means it'll have to use non-lethal damage(ie stun instead of
physical).

> >Rigging with a 'trode net
> <<SLICE>>
> Jon Szeto's just covered this (in brief: not possible).

Eh, like I told him, I jus' expanded the decking rules. As always,
YMMV.

> >Size and the 'trode net
> >'trode nets must be sized to fit the person. They are fairly general(ie
> >a human sized 'trode net will fit nearly any human). However, if
> >someone tries to use a 'trode net that is not correctly sized, depending
> >on the difference, the user will suffer modifiers from +1 to +4 to all
> >tests. That is if the 'trode net fits at all(GM's call). Also, the
> >DFR of the 'trode net drops by 5Mp for every +1 modifier do to the
> >looseness of the connection.
> And how would you determine the modifier? (Troll using anyone else's
> rig, or vice versa, would be a +4?) Most everyone's head is close to
> the same size (ignoring comments about ego), so (with the exception of
> the troll) any (meta)human could use any other (meta)human's 'trode rig
> with only a +1, IMnsHO.

It's mostly a GM call. I would say that you could get a +2 or +3 as
well. Not all humans are alike. As always, YMMV.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
Message no. 9
From: "G.H. Metz" <wolfstar@********.NET>
Subject: Re: 'trode net stats
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 05:17:36 +0000
On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Danyel N Woods wrote:

>
> >a datajack cuts inbetween your sensors and your brain and
> >disables your sensors so that you receive only the data from
> >the other input (drone, cyberspace...)
> >at least as far as i know...

Actually, the RAS from a datajack is an override, not a cutoff. You CAN
still experience the meatworld, but you've got severely hefty mods to do
so, and normal attention span takes care of the rest.(You spend most of
your attention on what's brightest and loudest, everything else is minor
background.)

> Nope; 'trode nets act like a normal simsense feed, in that they cut off
> most access to your normal sensorium while you're experiencing the
> simsense. There's some loss of detail and a sense that this isn't a
> 'truly real' sensory record, and you can't get the full quality of any
> simsense (even BTL) from a 'trode net, but it acts in all ways like a
> normal simsense experience (including RAS cutout, I would think).

I disagree with that, only because there's nothing there to cut out or
mute the input from normal senses. RAS is similar to routing block. The
only way to "mute" it out is to make the ASIST signal brighter than
life(literally) and you'd fry your brain on the feedback from it.

Wolfstar, Operating without a saftey net or a sig.file for the moment...
Message no. 10
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: 'trode net stats
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 23:17:11 -0400
Does anybody have a copy of the 'trode net stats I posted a while back?
Evidently, I forgot to keep a copy.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about 'trode net stats, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!