Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:26:14 -0500
On 23 Apr 98 at 18:31, Ogre wrote:

> I must send a quick apology to my post- I acutally meant to write
> 'thorwing a car 20ft' but my keyboard is a little knackere anf it
> came out wroong.

Big difference. :)

> I can't see the problemm with a Troll thorwing a car, esapcially a
> Sam. I am not talking about anything that a few people acting
> together can't do now (belive me on this), as long as it was a not a
> huge car.

Ok. I could see a troll lifting a car and maybe pushing it 20ft
(something small like a Jackrabbit), but I can't see a troll
_throwing_ a car. There is more to it than just strength. An
individual troll would have problems with balance and leverage to
throw a car. The few people doing it you mentioned above are able to
counteract that.

Like I said, just because Shadowrun is a fantasy world, don't ignore
the laws of Physics.

--



-----------------------------------------------------------------
- DREKHEAD - |"Let's face it. Sometimes your a
- drekhead@***.net - | pigeon, and sometimes your the
*-ShadowRN - GridSec Division-* | statue."
"To Protect and To Serve" |-Unknown
=================================================================
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
Message no. 2
From: Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:52:47 EDT
Drekhead writes:
> Ok. I could see a troll lifting a car and maybe pushing it 20ft
> (something small like a Jackrabbit), but I can't see a troll
> _throwing_ a car. There is more to it than just strength. An
> individual troll would have problems with balance and leverage to
> throw a car. The few people doing it you mentioned above are able to
> counteract that.

I could see a Troll flipping a car over, if it is strong enough. Or
perhaps four Trolls each grabbing a part of the car, and walking off with
it (a quick way to make some cash). But I don't think a Troll could throw
a car very far at all, a motorcycle perhaps...

Pete

_ \ | _ \ _) | _ ) | |
__/ -_) _| -_) _| | | _` |\ \ / | _` | _ \ _ \ _` | _` | | |
_| \___|\__|\___|_| ___/\__,_| \_/ _|\__,_| ___/\___/\__,_|\__,_|\_, |
| Peter David Boddy | Email: pdboddy@****.carleton.ca ___/
| aka | Email: pdboddy@******.carleton.ca |
| Spitfire | |
| on NCF's IRC | Private Email Only: bx955@*******.carleton.ca |
`-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-'
Message no. 3
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:28:09 -0500
----------
> From: Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA>
> I could see a Troll flipping a car over, if it is strong enough. Or
> perhaps four Trolls each grabbing a part of the car, and walking off
with
> it (a quick way to make some cash). But I don't think a Troll could
throw
> a car very far at all, a motorcycle perhaps...

This is slightly OT, but I just remembered one guy who said he wanted a
concentration of his Troll's Armed Combat Skill to be Small Humanoids...
our local Dwarf did not find that amusing.
Message no. 4
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:20:51 -0400
At 02:52 PM 4/23/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Drekhead writes:
>> Ok. I could see a troll lifting a car and maybe pushing it 20ft
>> (something small like a Jackrabbit), but I can't see a troll
>> _throwing_ a car. There is more to it than just strength. An
>> individual troll would have problems with balance and leverage to
>> throw a car. The few people doing it you mentioned above are able to
>> counteract that.
>
>I could see a Troll flipping a car over, if it is strong enough. Or
>perhaps four Trolls each grabbing a part of the car, and walking off with
>it (a quick way to make some cash). But I don't think a Troll could throw
>a car very far at all, a motorcycle perhaps...

On a good day, *I* could flip a light car over (I'm talking a Yugo or
something tiny like that).

If you've seen some of those strongman events, these dudes do crazy things
like flip over cars, tow behind them from a dead stop an 18 wheeler...these
guys, without cyberware or magic, could pick up a motorcycle and attempt to
throw it for distance. It probably wouldn't go much more than 10ft, but
still, that's impressive.

Now imagine a cyber-1200 troll, stats pumped to the max. Or a troll
physadept with his strength juiced as far as his magic will take him. One
of these monsters could easily flip over a damn SUV, pick up and lift over
their head a Yugo, and throw a motorcycle for something more like 10 yards.

It can be done.

Erik J.


"What was that popping sound?"

"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:43:27 +0100
Erik Jameson said on 17:20/23 Apr 98...

> On a good day, *I* could flip a light car over (I'm talking a Yugo or
> something tiny like that).

From something I was once told, you can make a Citroen jump to the side if
you push it right. Has to do with the hydropneumatic suspension.

> Now imagine a cyber-1200 troll, stats pumped to the max. Or a troll
> physadept with his strength juiced as far as his magic will take him. One
> of these monsters could easily flip over a damn SUV, pick up and lift over
> their head a Yugo, and throw a motorcycle for something more like 10 yards.

Let's pull the numbers through SRII's rules. We have:

The Contestants:
1) An average human (Strength 3)
2) An average troll (Strength 7)
3) A strong human with muscle replacement (4) (Strength 6(10))
4) A strong troll with muscle replacement (4) (Strength 10(14))
5) A 1.5x racial maximum troll with muscle replacement (4) (Strength
15(19))

The Items:
A motorcycle (100 kg)
A small car (500 kg)
A medium car (750 kg)
A large car (1,000 kg)

Maximum lifting capacities without and with rolling for them are as
follows (Average Rolls assumes all D6's roll 3.5, Maximum Rolls is all
6's):

Contestant Without rolling Average rolls Maximum rolls
1 60 kg 70.5 kg
78 kg
2 140 kg 164.5 kg
182 kg
3 200 kg 235 kg
260 kg
4 280 kg 329 kg
364 kg
5 380 kg 446.5 kg
494 kg

From that, even an average troll should be able to pick up a motorcycle
and most likely throw it a small distance. The cybered contestants should
have very little trouble with it, but only the troll with Strength above
racial maximum has a chance at lifting the small car, but only by rolling
very well (unlikely, he'd need 19D6 rolling all 6's...) Adding in some
more cyberware and/or magic should increase performance, of course, but I
think the conclusion is reasonably easy to draw: hardly anyone will be
able to pick up a car, let alone throw it away. Motorcycles (and people)
are a different matter.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
It's better to have loved and lost
Than to listen to an Olivia Newton John record
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 6
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:26:27 -0500
On 24 Apr 98 at 11:43, Gurth wrote:

> I think the conclusion
> is reasonably easy to draw: hardly anyone will be able to pick up a
> car, let alone throw it away. Motorcycles (and people) are a
> different matter.

That's all I was trying to say. Thanks for the great sample.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
- DREKHEAD - |"Let's face it. Sometimes your a
- drekhead@***.net - | pigeon, and sometimes your the
*-ShadowRN - GridSec Division-* | statue."
"To Protect and To Serve" |-Unknown
=================================================================
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
Message no. 7
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:59:50 -0400
At 11:43 AM 4/24/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Erik Jameson said on 17:20/23 Apr 98...
>
>> On a good day, *I* could flip a light car over (I'm talking a Yugo or
>> something tiny like that).
>
>>From something I was once told, you can make a Citroen jump to the side if
>you push it right. Has to do with the hydropneumatic suspension.

<snipped good examples using the rules>

Gurth, you forget one small thing. I don't actually have to lift all 500kg
or whatever of the car; I'm not trying to bench press or squat the damn
thing. I'm trying to flip it over; I can use the car's own shape as a
lever and I only actually lift a portion of the weight.

Give me some good gloves so I can be sure of a good grip, nice tight
wrappings on my knees so don't blow them out (I've got weak knees) and I'll
go out to the parking garage and flip over some Honda or something right now.

Now if you wanted me to actually *lift* the car up over my head (like in
Olympic clean and jerk or something) I'd tell you to bugger off. No amount
of work and steroids, growth hormones, stimulants, and vitamins will be
able to allow me to do that.

A troll maxed out as hard as possible might be able to "clean and jerk" a
Yugo/Citroen and get a running start and throw it 10 feet, but not I.

Erik J.


"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
Message no. 8
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:41:03 -0500
On 24 Apr 98 at 13:59, Erik Jameson wrote:

> Gurth, you forget one small thing. I don't actually have to lift
> all 500kg or whatever of the car; I'm not trying to bench press or
> squat the damn thing. I'm trying to flip it over; I can use the
> car's own shape as a lever and I only actually lift a portion of the
> weight.

That's all well and good, Erik, and your absolutely right. We did it
to a teachers car in high school. But the thread started with someone
asking about a troll "throwing" a car. It is the "throwing" that has
been questioned, and summarily proved impossible, I might add.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
- DREKHEAD - | "Just accept that sometimes
- drekhead@***.net - | you're the pigeon and sometimes
*-GridSec - ShadowRN Division-* | you're the statue."
"To Protect and To Serve" | -Unknown
=================================================================
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
Message no. 9
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:45:21 -0400
At 02:41 PM 4/24/98 -0500, you wrote:

>That's all well and good, Erik, and your absolutely right. We did it
>to a teachers car in high school. But the thread started with someone
>asking about a troll "throwing" a car. It is the "throwing" that
has
>been questioned, and summarily proved impossible, I might add.

*sigh*

I was trying to make a point, but I guess I was actually just going off on
a tangent that I saw but no one else apparently did.

I thought someone had made a comment about not being able to lift cars up
or something. So I responded. Why is that a problem?

<rant mode on>
If GridSec is going to start policing original thread intent and stop us
from going off on tangents, OT or not, from those threads, you will have
earned the title "Gestapo" (which at the time was innappropriate and
incorrect) and I will quit this list. I thought I was answering a question
related to the original question; not the original thread, but a tangent.
Maybe only I saw that. Doesn't matter. Unless I, or others, are becoming
abusive, are incessantly off-topic, flame and insult, or keep pounding away
at a dead topic for weeks at a time, it's not your job as GridSec to step
in. Your job is to answer commonly asked questions, kill flame wars before
they become wars, kill threads that are either off-topic or incendiary, and
attempt to maintain some semblance of order. But that order is akin to
Wild West order; you don't shoot me and don't steal my cattle, you ain't
broken any laws. We won't take any Orwellian order on this list. Try to
impose it and you'll kill the list.

Let's get something straight here; as GridSec, you are always "on duty" as
it were. If you're commenting on rules or whatnot, your opinion as GridSec
is only as good as anyone else's on this list. But when you move to stop,
kill, squash, or otherwise end a line of postings, that's *always* as
GridSec. You can't say, or imply, that a thread or tangent should be ended
as a "private citizen." I read your above reply to me as "This is GridSec.
You have strayed off-topic. You will cease and desist this line of
postings immediately. Return to the original topic or prepare for the
consequences."
</rant mode off>

Anyway, the topic is dead now, so there's no need for me to make any more
postings to the list on this topic.

Erik J.


"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
Message no. 10
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:15:20 -0600
Sorry gang, but I gotta quote the whole thread.

Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ At 02:41 PM 4/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
/
/ >That's all well and good, Erik, and your absolutely right. We did it
/ >to a teachers car in high school. But the thread started with someone
/ >asking about a troll "throwing" a car. It is the "throwing" that
has
/ >been questioned, and summarily proved impossible, I might add.
/
/ *sigh*
/
/ I was trying to make a point, but I guess I was actually just going off on
/ a tangent that I saw but no one else apparently did.
/
/ I thought someone had made a comment about not being able to lift cars up
/ or something. So I responded. Why is that a problem?
/
/ <rant mode on>
/ If GridSec is going to start policing original thread intent and stop us
/ from going off on tangents, OT or not, from those threads, you will have
/ earned the title "Gestapo" (which at the time was innappropriate and
/ incorrect) and I will quit this list. I thought I was answering a question
/ related to the original question; not the original thread, but a tangent.
/ Maybe only I saw that. Doesn't matter. Unless I, or others, are becoming
/ abusive, are incessantly off-topic, flame and insult, or keep pounding away
/ at a dead topic for weeks at a time, it's not your job as GridSec to step
/ in. Your job is to answer commonly asked questions, kill flame wars before
/ they become wars, kill threads that are either off-topic or incendiary, and
/ attempt to maintain some semblance of order. But that order is akin to
/ Wild West order; you don't shoot me and don't steal my cattle, you ain't
/ broken any laws. We won't take any Orwellian order on this list. Try to
/ impose it and you'll kill the list.
/
/ Let's get something straight here; as GridSec, you are always "on duty" as
/ it were. If you're commenting on rules or whatnot, your opinion as GridSec
/ is only as good as anyone else's on this list. But when you move to stop,
/ kill, squash, or otherwise end a line of postings, that's *always* as
/ GridSec. You can't say, or imply, that a thread or tangent should be ended
/ as a "private citizen." I read your above reply to me as "This is
GridSec.
/ You have strayed off-topic. You will cease and desist this line of
/ postings immediately. Return to the original topic or prepare for the
/ consequences."
/ </rant mode off>
/
/ Anyway, the topic is dead now, so there's no need for me to make any more
/ postings to the list on this topic.

First, if any member of GridSec is acting in the role of GridSec
you'll know it. Either with an HMTL emoticon <GridSec> Hi
</GridSec>, or [GridSec] in the subject line, or a clear statement.
Or, it'll be from Dvixen ;)

<GridSec>

Eric, you're a heck of a listmember and your presence on this list is
valued and appreciated, at least by me :)

However, in this instance I feel that you were *way* off base.
Drekhead did not kill the thread. He did not post as GridSec. He
expressed his opinion on the subject. It was a little harsh, IMHO,
and if you'd responded to that I wouldn't be writing this.

The members of GridSec do have a responsibility to act in a mature
manner when posting to this list, as do we all. We also have
slightly higher expectations of us because of our position and our
responsibilities. However, we are still members of ShadowRN and have
every right to state our opinion as it applies to any given thread.
Just because we are members of GridSec does not mean that our
opinions on a given subject have any more weight than anyone else's.

We also like to have as much fun as the next guy (phenomenon ;). So
we're more than happy to let a good thread go, regardless of whether
or not it's on topic. Heck, I'll even start the damn things myself
:)

And, if a member of GridSec rubs you the wrong way then please
address him or her instead of lumping us all together.

Thank you.

</GridSec>

I don't know what's going on lately. Maybe there are some latent bad
vibes from the religion thread. Or maybe it's just Spring Fever (for
those of us in the Northern Hemisphere). But please, take a few deep
breaths if something ticks you off and try to give the other guy the
benefit of the doubt.

I bet Drekhead was stuck on the throwing aspect of the thread and
missed your point of being able to lift a car without having to be
able to bench press it. Having known Drekhead (as well as you can on
the net) I'll stand up for him as being a pretty nice guy. Maybe
he's had a bad day, or a bad week.

-David
--
"Society will become divided into technology `haves' and `have nots.'
Eventually the two groups will take different evolutionary paths.
Then, as now, the `have nots' will be the policy makers."
- Dogbert the Futurist

"Oog make mission statement."
- anonymous
--
ShadowRN GridSec
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 11
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:47:30 -0400
At 03:15 PM 4/24/98 -0600, you wrote:

><GridSec>
>
>Eric, you're a heck of a listmember and your presence on this list is
>valued and appreciated, at least by me :)

Thank you. But please, everyone, it's Erik. With a "k." I see it spelled
wrong everywhere, even my office where they should know better. So please,
please, it makes me feel so much less grumpy when it's spelled right.

>However, in this instance I feel that you were *way* off base.
>Drekhead did not kill the thread. He did not post as GridSec. He
>expressed his opinion on the subject. It was a little harsh, IMHO,
>and if you'd responded to that I wouldn't be writing this.

The point I was trying to make is that even when you GridSec folks *don't*
add in the faux-HTML <GridSec> type notices, anytime you folks make a post
that has something to do with list admin stuff, it's going to be seen by
much of the rest of the list as official GridSec.

You've become like real cops in that respect. An indivual police officer,
when off-duty, has to be careful to whom and what they say; to be honest,
my best friend is LAPD. If I took the things he's told me, in confidence,
to the media or the polic chief or something, he'd be fired. Maybe even
worse. And those are off-duty comments and thoughts. In that respect,
he's always on duty. GridSec and list admins, unfortunately, are in a
similar boat.

Your opinions on the age limits of shapeshifters or new bleeding mechanics
are just as valid as anyone else on the list. No better, no worse. But
the instant any of you, or the list owners and admins start talking about
admin stuff, even without officially stating so, that's official. That's
actually one of many reasons burn-out for cops is so high; they aren't even
allowed to have opinions in their off-time. I'm afraid that because you
are "GridSecurity" and your job is to patrol the list, you really are in
the same boat. You might not believe that, but I honestly do. Which is
why I got a bit warm in my last reply.

>And, if a member of GridSec rubs you the wrong way then please
>address him or her instead of lumping us all together.

Yes, and no. The concept of GridSec is fine by me. But's it's rather new,
at least to this list, so there are kinks that have to be worked out. How
heavy handed you should be, if you really should make personal opinions
about stopping threads, how far things should be allowed to progress and so
on.

To be honest, I think there are some listmembers who privately *do* think
GridSec is the list's very own jackbooted thugs. Some of us, especially us
Americans, see police-type authority figures and we almost automatically
have to make fun of you. I'm in that camp. But based on the preponderance
of "better not piss of GridSec" type comments, there are clearly some
people who think you (as a group) are guilty of being heavy-handed at times.

With any luck, in a few months all these kinks will be worked out and it'll
be like GridSec was always here. And we won't have any cause or reason for
this sort of thing to occur. Trust me, I don't have anything against any
of the GridSec, but there are some glitches.

>I don't know what's going on lately. Maybe there are some latent bad
>vibes from the religion thread. Or maybe it's just Spring Fever (for
>those of us in the Northern Hemisphere). But please, take a few deep
>breaths if something ticks you off and try to give the other guy the
>benefit of the doubt.

*sigh*

Things have been a bit twitchy the last several weeks. I think maybe, at
least here on the West Coast, we're getting very, very tired of El Nino and
want our normal sunny and warm days back. Or maybe for those people on TK
it's a response to the exceptionally brutal nature of the recent postings;
apparently one person actually cried in horror and sadness while reading a
recent post, and it also, later, caused another person to quit TK. And I
know there are certain people who are getting bombarded with e-mails on
another list, which is causing a bit of stress for a few of us.

Hell, maybe it has something to do with mailing list Elliot Waves or
something...like we were due for a rash of list "warmth."

>I bet Drekhead was stuck on the throwing aspect of the thread and
>missed your point of being able to lift a car without having to be
>able to bench press it. Having known Drekhead (as well as you can on
>the net) I'll stand up for him as being a pretty nice guy. Maybe
>he's had a bad day, or a bad week.

Perhaps. Perhaps I din't get as much sleep last night as I wanted to. I'm
not saying he's a bad guy. He's probably a freak though, like 99% percent
of this list. ;-)

Ah, bugger. As the song goes, "let's call the whole thing off" and just
drop this and move on.

Hey, David, it looks to me like you've got the Dilbert daily calendar; your
sig on your last post was from today. "Oog, make mission statement." Flip
forward a few months (Sept. 29) and you'll find one of my .sigs there...

Erik J, also known as Grumpy Spice


"What was that popping sound?"

"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
Message no. 12
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:29:24 -0400
Erik Jameson wrote:
>
> At 11:43 AM 4/24/98 +0100, you wrote:
> >Erik Jameson said on 17:20/23 Apr 98...
> >
> >> On a good day, *I* could flip a light car over (I'm talking a Yugo or
> >> something tiny like that).
> >
> >>From something I was once told, you can make a Citroen jump to the side if
> >you push it right. Has to do with the hydropneumatic suspension.
>
> <snipped good examples using the rules>
>
> Gurth, you forget one small thing. I don't actually have to lift all 500kg
> or whatever of the car; I'm not trying to bench press or squat the damn
> thing. I'm trying to flip it over; I can use the car's own shape as a
> lever and I only actually lift a portion of the weight.
>
> Give me some good gloves so I can be sure of a good grip, nice tight
> wrappings on my knees so don't blow them out (I've got weak knees) and I'll
> go out to the parking garage and flip over some Honda or something right now.

<SNIP!>

Well, greetings all from the mighty Jettster. As far as I know,
technically, the human body IS capable of lifting a car straight up.
However, our brains have built-in safeguards that keep us from doing
such things because, frankly, lifting a car would literally tear a
normal human being apart. Only when either 1) these inhibitors are shut
down, or 2) The body is made capable of surviving the stress, does it
become possible. Case in point for possibility #1: the phenominal feats
of strength shown by people loaded on PCP. I'd think that with all the
nifty combat drugs and stuff in 205X, you could tank up some guy on some
drugs and send him out to toss cars around. Of course, after a few
tosses his muscles would probably be pulled right off his bones. I just
thought I'd mention this, see if it had any bearing...


--Jett
Message no. 13
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:02:32 -0700
Jessica Grota wrote:
Oh great. She made it...

And the female populaion of ShadowRN is up one more. (Which makes it what,
three? Four?) I'm surprised the boys on the list aren't on better behaviour.
*grin*

[snippet]

> Well, greetings all from the mighty Jettster. As far as I know,
> technically, the human body IS capable of lifting a car straight up.
> However, our brains have built-in safeguards that keep us from doing
> such things because, frankly, lifting a car would literally tear a
> normal human being apart. Only when either 1) these inhibitors are shut
> down, or 2) The body is made capable of surviving the stress, does it
> become possible. Case in point for possibility #1: the phenominal feats
> of strength shown by people loaded on PCP. I'd think that with all the
> nifty combat drugs and stuff in 205X, you could tank up some guy on some
> drugs and send him out to toss cars around. Of course, after a few
> tosses his muscles would probably be pulled right off his bones. I just
> thought I'd mention this, see if it had any bearing...

Possibility 2, the mother whose child is trapped someplace, and she lifts
the car/whatever out of the way. Pure adrenalin. IMO, lifting a car would
take a fair amount of preparation, if someone were to do it on purpose.
(Like: "Hey, let's throw this car at the gridsec so they can't chase me
anymore." ;)

On the muscle thing, if someone was to lift more weight (a *lot* more) than
they normally could, there's an excellent chance they could sever the muscle
tissue connecting to the breastbone, which iirc, is quite fragile. (well,
compared to the midsection of the muscle...)

--
-Dvixen
ShadowRN FAQ: http://coastnet.com/~dvixen
"I am responsible for everything except my own responsibility." Sartre
"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people." - Mr Garrison
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:49:47 +0100
Erik Jameson said on 16:45/24 Apr 98...

> At 02:41 PM 4/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >That's all well and good, Erik, and your absolutely right. We did it
> >to a teachers car in high school. But the thread started with someone
> >asking about a troll "throwing" a car. It is the "throwing"
that has
> >been questioned, and summarily proved impossible, I might add.
>
> *sigh*
[snip]
> <rant mode on>
> If GridSec is going to start policing original thread intent and stop us
> from going off on tangents, OT or not, from those threads, you will have
> earned the title "Gestapo" (which at the time was innappropriate and
> incorrect) and I will quit this list.

Erik, I have a feeling this is turning into one huge big misunderstanding.
From Drekhead' post, it appears to me he was just pointing out that not
everyone was talking about flipping over cars, but about throwing them
away -- NOT as a GridSec member, but as someone who maybe thinks you
lost sight of the original question. It doesn't appear to me like he was
trying to stop you from continuing a thread at all.

> I read your above reply to me as "This is GridSec. You have strayed
> off-topic. You will cease and desist this line of postings immediately.
> Return to the original topic or prepare for the consequences."
> </rant mode off>

It looks to me like you misinterpreted a remark, perhaps because of
Drekhead's mention of GridSec in his .signature? Unless I'm mistaken, he
uses the same .sig for GridSec messages as for his normal posts (unlike
me, for example), which {c|w}ould explain the confusion.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
It's better to have loved and lost
Than to listen to an Olivia Newton John record
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 15
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:32:17 -0600
Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ At 03:15 PM 4/24/98 -0600, you wrote:
/
/ ><GridSec>
/ >
/ >Eric, you're a heck of a listmember and your presence on this list is
/ >valued and appreciated, at least by me :)
/
/ Thank you. But please, everyone, it's Erik. With a "k." I see it spelled
/ wrong everywhere, even my office where they should know better. So please,
/ please, it makes me feel so much less grumpy when it's spelled right.

Whoops. Sorry bout that. Won't happen again :)

/ The point I was trying to make is that even when you GridSec folks *don't*
/ add in the faux-HTML <GridSec> type notices, anytime you folks make a post
/ that has something to do with list admin stuff, it's going to be seen by
/ much of the rest of the list as official GridSec.
/
/ You've become like real cops in that respect. An indivual police officer,
/ when off-duty, has to be careful to whom and what they say; to be honest,
/ my best friend is LAPD. If I took the things he's told me, in confidence,
/ to the media or the polic chief or something, he'd be fired. Maybe even
/ worse. And those are off-duty comments and thoughts. In that respect,
/ he's always on duty. GridSec and list admins, unfortunately, are in a
/ similar boat.
/
/ Your opinions on the age limits of shapeshifters or new bleeding mechanics
/ are just as valid as anyone else on the list. No better, no worse. But
/ the instant any of you, or the list owners and admins start talking about
/ admin stuff, even without officially stating so, that's official. That's
/ actually one of many reasons burn-out for cops is so high; they aren't even
/ allowed to have opinions in their off-time. I'm afraid that because you
/ are "GridSecurity" and your job is to patrol the list, you really are in
/ the same boat. You might not believe that, but I honestly do. Which is
/ why I got a bit warm in my last reply.

Perception defines reality :) Fair enough. We (GridSec) are still
experiencing growing pains. You should see the muffs that were made
off-list during the first week. Hoo boy. IMHO we're doing pretty
good considering. Even with my RL 3+ years of experience as a
supervisor I've done somethings that were painfully boneheaded in
retrospect. On the other hand my ability to backpeddal is pretty
darn good :) And I've found that crow doesn't taste that bad ;)

I'll honestly admit that I didn't take into consideration that a lot
of listmembers would compare us (unconsciously or consciously) with
police, security, or state police, and all the shades of gray in
between. I'm finding that that perception does indeed exist (not
that there's anything wrong with that) and that I will have to take
that into account when posting to the list. <Doris Day> Que sera,
sera </Doris Day> :)

And thank you for bringing up the issue, not matter that it was a
little painful for me.

/ >And, if a member of GridSec rubs you the wrong way then please
/ >address him or her instead of lumping us all together.
/
/ Yes, and no. The concept of GridSec is fine by me. But's it's rather new,
/ at least to this list, so there are kinks that have to be worked out. How
/ heavy handed you should be, if you really should make personal opinions
/ about stopping threads, how far things should be allowed to progress and so
/ on.

Yep, we're still getting our feet wet.

And I'd guess that even several years from now things will still
"kink" from time to time.

/ To be honest, I think there are some listmembers who privately *do* think
/ GridSec is the list's very own jackbooted thugs. Some of us, especially us
/ Americans, see police-type authority figures and we almost automatically
/ have to make fun of you. I'm in that camp. But based on the preponderance
/ of "better not piss of GridSec" type comments, there are clearly some
/ people who think you (as a group) are guilty of being heavy-handed at times.

Which is why I liberally sprinkle smileys whenever I operate
officially in my capacity as GridSec :)

/ With any luck, in a few months all these kinks will be worked out and it'll
/ be like GridSec was always here. And we won't have any cause or reason for
/ this sort of thing to occur. Trust me, I don't have anything against any
/ of the GridSec, but there are some glitches.

Glitch happens. But the stuff makes great fertalizer and promotes
rapid growth. Learn to enjoy it and take advantage of it :)

Mark gets to sit out there casually observing. Everyone knows he's
there and that he will step in and do his job, but his presence is in
the background. He blends in. GridSec hasn't blended in yet. And
that's just due to our newness, glitches that haven't been resolved,
and our inexperience. I don't know about the rest of the list, but I
personally am looking forward to the time when GridSec becomes a fly on
the wall :)

/ >I don't know what's going on lately. Maybe there are some latent bad
/ >vibes from the religion thread. Or maybe it's just Spring Fever (for
/ >those of us in the Northern Hemisphere). But please, take a few deep
/ >breaths if something ticks you off and try to give the other guy the
/ >benefit of the doubt.
/
/ *sigh*
/
/ Things have been a bit twitchy the last several weeks. I think maybe, at
/ least here on the West Coast, we're getting very, very tired of El Nino and
/ want our normal sunny and warm days back. Or maybe for those people on TK
/ it's a response to the exceptionally brutal nature of the recent postings;
/ apparently one person actually cried in horror and sadness while reading a
/ recent post, and it also, later, caused another person to quit TK.

Yep, there's all that background stuff that none of us know about until
after the fact.

/ And I know there are certain people who are getting bombarded with
/ e-mails on another list, which is causing a bit of stress for a few
/ of us.

Tell me about it. Oi. But it's gonna be worth it in the end :)

/ Hell, maybe it has something to do with mailing list Elliot Waves or
/ something...like we were due for a rash of list "warmth."

<shrug> Who knows? I've lived through a couple peaks of list tension,
I'll live through this one.

/ >I bet Drekhead was stuck on the throwing aspect of the thread and
/ >missed your point of being able to lift a car without having to be
/ >able to bench press it. Having known Drekhead (as well as you can on
/ >the net) I'll stand up for him as being a pretty nice guy. Maybe
/ >he's had a bad day, or a bad week.
/
/ Perhaps. Perhaps I din't get as much sleep last night as I wanted to. I'm
/ not saying he's a bad guy. He's probably a freak though, like 99% percent
/ of this list. ;-)

And the $60,000 question is, who is that 1%? ;)

/ Ah, bugger. As the song goes, "let's call the whole thing off" and just
/ drop this and move on.

Deal.

/ Hey, David, it looks to me like you've got the Dilbert daily calendar; your
/ sig on your last post was from today. "Oog, make mission statement." Flip
/ forward a few months (Sept. 29) and you'll find one of my .sigs there...

LOL. Thanks. I needed that :)

-David
--
"Society will become divided into technology `haves' and `have nots.'
Eventually the two groups will take different evolutionary paths.
Then, as now, the `have nots' will be the policy makers."
- Dogbert the Futurist

"Oog make mission statement."
- anonymous
--
ShadowRN GridSec
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 16
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:34:46 +0100
And verily, did David Buehrer hastily scribble thusly...
|We also like to have as much fun as the next guy (phenomenon ;).

Do Dooo da doo do!

ACK!
Sorry, knee jerk reaction... Couldn't help myself....
DAMN YOU MUPPETS!
:)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Trolls and Cars was RE:Free form SRII, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!