Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	GRANITE granite@**.net
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 06:52:48 -0700

Message no. 1 OK..enough talk..I think it is about time..we have a lot of ideas..Now
it is time to start getting to some kind of work..[Foolishly he
volunteered]..If I missed an idea or you have a different one sefor
voting on the concepts we all like..then the top 3 or 4 concepts will
need artwork done up..Then we can get that done and work on voting on
artwork and finializing what we want for the TShirt ..l The majority
of our energy should be spent figuring out what we want on the front
of the TShirt..the back will have the traditional list of members who
paid for a shirt and probably something about t These are what I have
so far.. Remember send your entries to me -privately-..

--
1]
"Run with the Best, or THWAPPED like the rest" ShadowRN
--
2]
Sounds humorous. Of course I perfer the idea of the troll in the
bathrobe and bunny slippers idea. -- 3] how about the troll hoisting
the CARP with the words "I've been Thwapped at
shadowrn@*********.org".

You could print the SR "S" in a light colour on the back and overlay
the names of the listmembers over it. Best of both worlds.
--
4] "To
give light to those who live in darkness, and in the shadow of death"
Luke chapter 1 verse 3 (I think, I heard it in the movie "The Saint")
--
5] See the conquering hero comes! Sound the trumpets, beat the
drums! Thomas Morell
--
6] The bravest are surely those who have the
clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and
yet notwithstanding go out to meet it. Thucydides
--
7] The game is
done! I've won, I've won!' Quoth she, and whistles thrice. S.T.
Coleridge
--
8] The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those
who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and
relearn. Alvin Toffler
--
9] CARPe' Diem A cybered Carp with this
slogan under it...
--
10] a Troll Head and Shoulders with the phrase
"Frag Off" under it....
--
11] Some variation of the troll in his pink
bathrobe and bunny slippers,
..Got Runners?
..Runner's Day Off
..Got Nerps?

--
12]
Something with the phrase
"Got NERPS?"
--
13]
Actually the "Menthos" commercial with the runner hanging from the
chopper.
--
14] the Dunkie dolls from Bulls Christmas.
--
15]
"ShadowRN: Dealing with Dragons since '89" (or whenever shadowRN was
started).

I see this with a runner or group of runners in the forground and the
shadow of a Dragon cast across the background onto a brick wall as
from an alley
--
16] Something version with a Japanmation cat called Hello Kitty on it
--
17]Something with stick figures

--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
==============================================Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The
Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
==============================================Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Jamais Arriere

From:	legion legion@******.net.au
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 02:15:01 +1100

Message no. 2 11] Some variation of the troll in his pink
bathrobe and bunny slippers,
..Got Runners?
..Runner's Day Off
..Got Nerps?

this gets my vote

legion

micheal.williams@***********.newcastle.edu.au
caroline.mallett@***********.newcastle.edu.au
legion@******.net.au
URL : http://www.welcome.to/hangfires.home
ICQ Mik - 15142762

From:	A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:33:23 +0000 (GMT)

Message no. 3 And verily, did legion hastily scribble thusly...
|
|
|11] Some variation of the troll in his pink
|bathrobe and bunny slippers,
|..Got Runners?
|..Runner's Day Off
|..Got Nerps?

I think a Troll with a large dripping carp with the
"Join the best or get THWAPPED like the rest one"

That's my vote.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

From:	Ryan W. Bolduan emeottrw@***.umn.edu
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:47:02 -0600 (CST)

Message no. 4 > 2]
> Sounds humorous. Of course I perfer the idea of the troll in the
> bathrobe and bunny slippers idea. -- 3] how about the troll hoisting
> the CARP with the words "I've been Thwapped at
> shadowrn@*********.org".
>
> You could print the SR "S" in a light colour on the back and overlay
> the names of the listmembers over it. Best of both worlds.

I really like this one, gives the list name and the back has a little more
to it.

From:	Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:55:22 +1000

Message no. 5 At 15:33 22/03/99 +0000 A Halliwell wrote
>And verily, did legion hastily scribble thusly...
>|
>|
>|11] Some variation of the troll in his pink
>|bathrobe and bunny slippers,
>|..Got Runners?
>|..Runner's Day Off
>|..Got Nerps?

The only thing that means _anything_ to me
in the above option is NERPS and even then
that's stretching it. If I'm going to pay through
the nose in US dollars for a shirt and get
it shipped to the other side of the planet (yes
we _do_ exist) then I'm going to damn well
want something remotely to do with Shadowrun/
ShadowRN on it.

>I think a Troll with a large dripping carp with the
>"Join the best or get THWAPPED like the rest one"
>
>That's my vote.

I vote for the option that includes the most of the following criterion
1) The list's address on it (promote the list, promote the game)
2) A Carp reference
3) Names on the back
4) BABY #'s
5) The SR3 "S"
6) The year (1999- The Sixth World -Twelve years and counting..")

I will NOT vote for anything that has anything to do with
1) In jokes that aren't funny let alone "in".
2) Cr(J)apanamation, especially Hello Kitty.
3) US advertising campaigns that mean nothing to me.
4) Stick Figures
5) Fluffy slippers (sorry)
6) Dunky dolls (WTF?)
7) Mentos (I shudder to even think....)

Manx
timburke@*******.com.au
#950 of 1000
__________________________________
"Such carping is not commendable"
- William Shakespeare
- Much Ado About Nothing a3.s1.l71
__________________________________
Play SR3 at Maelstrom, 1st-3rd May 1999
http://brisbane.diggycity.com/maelstrom

From:	Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:31:22 -0500

Message no. 6 Manx wrote:
> I vote for the option that includes the most of the following criterion
>
Several of these are expected by everbody (and thus assumed)...

> 1) The list's address on it (promote the list, promote the game)
> 2) A Carp reference
> 3) Names on the back
> 4) BABY #'s
> 5) The SR3 "S"
> 6) The year (1999- The Sixth World -Twelve years and counting..")
>
I'm assuming that 1, 3 and 6 are definitely going to be there, I'd
like #4 (and it's not unlikely), and 5 would probably be incorporated
into a "ShadowRN" somewhere.

> I will NOT vote for anything that has anything to do with
> 1) In jokes that aren't funny let alone "in".
> 2) Cr(J)apanamation, especially Hello Kitty.
> 3) US advertising campaigns that mean nothing to me.
> 4) Stick Figures
> 5) Fluffy slippers (sorry)
> 6) Dunky dolls (WTF?)
> 7) Mentos (I shudder to even think....)
>
OK, do you have any better suggestions? Or do you just want a plain:
"S: Carpe Carpum
ShadowRN@*********.org 1999
My Name Here (BABY #X)"? (Did I get them all? :-) )

The Hello Kitty and Mentos do nothing for me (and #s 1 and 3 seem to
just be underlining your distaste for them), but the others could be
fun, IMO...

James Ojaste

From:	Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:53:03 -0500 (EST)

Message no. 7 "GRANITE" <granite@**.net> writes:
> the back will have the traditional list of members who
> paid for a shirt and probably something about t...

Is this non-negotiable? I would really like a ShadowRN
t-shirt, but have no interest in one with a bunch of names on the
back. I know, I've mentioned this already, but I was wondering if
anyone else feels the same way about this silly name thing.

Mark

From:	A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:03:20 +0000 (GMT)

Message no. 8 And verily, did Mark A Shieh hastily scribble thusly...
|
|"GRANITE" <granite@**.net> writes:
|> the back will have the traditional list of members who
|> paid for a shirt and probably something about t...
|
| Is this non-negotiable? I would really like a ShadowRN
|t-shirt, but have no interest in one with a bunch of names on the
|back. I know, I've mentioned this already, but I was wondering if
|anyone else feels the same way about this silly name thing.

It's a tradition.
The "silly name thing" has been a part of the shadowrn t-shirt for years.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

From:	Iridios iridios@*********.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:22:51 -0500

Message no. 9 Mark A Shieh wrote:
>
> "GRANITE" <granite@**.net> writes:
> > the back will have the traditional list of members who
> > paid for a shirt and probably something about t...
>
> Is this non-negotiable? I would really like a ShadowRN
> t-shirt, but have no interest in one with a bunch of names on the
> back. I know, I've mentioned this already, but I was wondering if
> anyone else feels the same way about this silly name thing.
>
> Mark

I feel that the addition of listmembers names make the shirts more
unique. It lets people know you are part of something, not just some
individual wearing a shadowrun tshirt. It's part of being a
community. And I for one fully intend on getting my name on it this
year.

My question is, Why are you against having names on the back of the
shirt?
Are you ashamed of the rest of us? ;)

--
"My fellow Americans,
I'm pleased to tell you today, that I've signed legislation that
will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes"
-Ronald Reagan

Iridios
iridios@*********.com
ICQ UIN:6629224
The ShadowZone is down for Revision
Please email me with Zone Notification as subject to be
notified when it reopens.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9489

From:	Ryan W. Bolduan emeottrw@***.umn.edu
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:22:11 -0600 (CST)

Message no. 10 On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, A Halliwell wrote:

> And verily, did Mark A Shieh hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> | Is this non-negotiable? I would really like a ShadowRN
> |t-shirt, but have no interest in one with a bunch of names on the
> |back. I know, I've mentioned this already, but I was wondering if
> |anyone else feels the same way about this silly name thing.
>
> It's a tradition.
> The "silly name thing" has been a part of the shadowrn t-shirt for years.
> --

My question is the BABY# negotiable? I am interested in the shirt, but
never had the chance to get a copy (no GenCon for me, and I didn't get
online the morning they were sold out). As a result, I doubt I will ever
have a copy, and thus no number to put by the name. I don't know if any
other list members are in this boat, but I know I am.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Bolduan emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu
http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~emeottrw

A person concerned with such important matters as I, need not, and should
not, attend to spelling.
--Napolean
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Iridios iridios@*********.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:25:41 -0500

Message no. 11 Manx wrote:

> I vote for the option that includes the most of the following criterion
> 1) The list's address on it (promote the list, promote the game)
> 2) A Carp reference
> 3) Names on the back
> 4) BABY #'s
> 5) The SR3 "S"
> 6) The year (1999- The Sixth World -Twelve years and counting..")

I vote for all of the above with the following notes, I still think
the SR3 "S" could be placed on the sleeve, allowing for some more
unique art to be placed on the front.

--
"My fellow Americans,
I'm pleased to tell you today, that I've signed legislation that
will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes"
-Ronald Reagan

Iridios
iridios@*********.com
ICQ UIN:6629224
The ShadowZone is down for Revision
Please email me with Zone Notification as subject to be
notified when it reopens.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9489

From:	Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:30:18 -0500

Message no. 12 Ryan W. Bolduan wrote:
> > | Is this non-negotiable? I would really like a ShadowRN
> > |t-shirt, but have no interest in one with a bunch of names on the
> > |back. I know, I've mentioned this already, but I was wondering if
> > |anyone else feels the same way about this silly name thing.
> > It's a tradition.
> > The "silly name thing" has been a part of the shadowrn t-shirt for
> years.
>
> My question is the BABY# negotiable? I am interested in the shirt, but
> never had the chance to get a copy (no GenCon for me, and I didn't get
> online the morning they were sold out). As a result, I doubt I will ever
> have a copy, and thus no number to put by the name. I don't know if any
> other list members are in this boat, but I know I am.
>
I'm sure that you're not alone in missing out on getting a BABY, but
for those that have one, it's a mark of pride - a testimony to
(warning of) to our devotion to (obsession with) the genius that is
Shadowrun (a game)!

In short, I'm proud that I spent a couple of hours on FASA's web site;
having the server crash every few minutes, hacking the URL so I could
fill out the form early so I wouldn't have to worry about typing so
quickly that I'd screw up my mailing address or CC#... *sigh*

James Ojaste

From:	Joshua Ring strago@***.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:45:12 -0500

Message no. 13 Me too.

Ryan W. Bolduan wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, A Halliwell wrote:
>
> > And verily, did Mark A Shieh hastily scribble thusly...
> > |
> > | Is this non-negotiable? I would really like a ShadowRN
> > |t-shirt, but have no interest in one with a bunch of names on the
> > |back. I know, I've mentioned this already, but I was wondering if
> > |anyone else feels the same way about this silly name thing.
> >
> > It's a tradition.
> > The "silly name thing" has been a part of the shadowrn t-shirt for
years.
> > --
>
> My question is the BABY# negotiable? I am interested in the shirt, but
> never had the chance to get a copy (no GenCon for me, and I didn't get
> online the morning they were sold out). As a result, I doubt I will ever
> have a copy, and thus no number to put by the name. I don't know if any
> other list members are in this boat, but I know I am.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ryan Bolduan emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu
> http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~emeottrw
>
> A person concerned with such important matters as I, need not, and should
> not, attend to spelling.
> --Napolean
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Ryan W. Bolduan emeottrw@***.umn.edu
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:46:55 -0600 (CST)

Message no. 14 > > My question is the BABY# negotiable? I am interested in the shirt, but
> > never had the chance to get a copy (no GenCon for me, and I didn't get
> > online the morning they were sold out). As a result, I doubt I will ever
> > have a copy, and thus no number to put by the name. I don't know if any
> > other list members are in this boat, but I know I am.
> >
> I'm sure that you're not alone in missing out on getting a BABY, but
> for those that have one, it's a mark of pride - a testimony to
> (warning of) to our devotion to (obsession with) the genius that is
> Shadowrun (a game)!
>
> In short, I'm proud that I spent a couple of hours on FASA's web site;
> having the server crash every few minutes, hacking the URL so I could
> fill out the form early so I wouldn't have to worry about typing so
> quickly that I'd screw up my mailing address or CC#... *sigh*
>

You may be proud of your achievement, but it doesn't make me any less
devoted to Shadowrun. I try (albeit not very well) to maintain a web
page, I buy every product put out (and try to get those that are no longer
out), and I run a very serious campaign. Heck, I even try to actually
read all the posts to Shadowrn (and sometimes don't get my work done
because of it).

As you can see just because I don't have a BABY doesn't mean I am any less
devoted. I couldn't get to GenCon (no vacation at the time), and I
couldn't get online to get a copy (because of the connection at work, and
no home computer). I wish I had been able to, and I too would be rather
happy, but it just wasn't a possibility.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you may be very proud of your BABY,
but that still doesn't mean that there are others out there in the same
boat I'm in that weren't able to get online, and are just as dedicated.
The names is a great idea and I would be happy to have it on the shirt,
but I just don't see why putting your BABY# is needed (especially since it
will alienate some list members that couldn't get a copy).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Bolduan emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu
http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~emeottrw

A person concerned with such important matters as I, need not, and should
not, attend to spelling.
--Napolean
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:47:11 -0500 (EST)

Message no. 15 Iridios <iridios@*********.com> writes:
> Mark A Shieh wrote:
> > "GRANITE" <granite@**.net> writes:
> > > the back will have the traditional list of members who
> > > paid for a shirt and probably something about t...
> >
> > Is this non-negotiable?

> I feel that the addition of listmembers names make the shirts more
> unique. It lets people know you are part of something, not just some
> individual wearing a shadowrun tshirt. It's part of being a
> community. And I for one fully intend on getting my name on it this
> year.

> My question is, Why are you against having names on the back of the
> shirt?

I see it as being more cliquish than community-building, in
the same way that certain other groups refer to non-group members as
"mundanes". It feels a little juvenile to me, and IMHO doesn't give
the best first impression for a list. Don't mind me though, this
doesn't seem to be a commonly held belief.

> Are you ashamed of the rest of us? ;)

What, uh, no, not at all, what would make me give you that
impression, and what's that carp-shaped shadow looming overhead? :P I
just wish I had known that there was a digest mode for this list
during its stay at itribe. I couldn't figure out how to get it to go
digest at hearn so I didn't join.

Mark

From:	Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:04:12 -0500

Message no. 16 Ryan W. Bolduan wrote:
> > In short, I'm proud that I spent a couple of hours on FASA's web site;
> > having the server crash every few minutes, hacking the URL so I could
> > fill out the form early so I wouldn't have to worry about typing so
> > quickly that I'd screw up my mailing address or CC#... *sigh*
>
> You may be proud of your achievement, but it doesn't make me any less
> devoted to Shadowrun. I try (albeit not very well) to maintain a web
>
Of course not - my BABY is a symbol; you've got other symbols. I've
got a web page too (albeit probably more sparse than yours) as well
as certain other things that hold meaning for me, but a BABY is a more
general symbol that many people can participate in.

Similarly, I'd like to have URLs on the shirt, but realistically I know
that it'd take up far too much space.

> page, I buy every product put out (and try to get those that are no longer
> out), and I run a very serious campaign. Heck, I even try to actually
> read all the posts to Shadowrn (and sometimes don't get my work done
> because of it).
>
*shrug* Join the club. Oh, you already have, never mind. :-)

> As you can see just because I don't have a BABY doesn't mean I am any less
> devoted. I couldn't get to GenCon (no vacation at the time), and I
> couldn't get online to get a copy (because of the connection at work, and
> no home computer). I wish I had been able to, and I too would be rather
> happy, but it just wasn't a possibility.
>
Well, there were *other* ways of getting one (people offered to pick
up extras at GenCon, several were available for sale shortly afterwards
etc). Neither here nor there, I suppose.

> I guess what I'm trying to say is that you may be very proud of your BABY,
> but that still doesn't mean that there are others out there in the same
> boat I'm in that weren't able to get online, and are just as dedicated.
>
I'm sure that there are, but a BABY # is a) short (takes up little
shirt space) and b) popular (ie many people buying the shirt will have
one).

> The names is a great idea and I would be happy to have it on the shirt,
> but I just don't see why putting your BABY# is needed (especially since it
> will alienate some list members that couldn't get a copy).
>
It's not *needed*, but I for one would appreciate it...

If people object to adding a field for BABY#, I can always just set up
a new email alias... ;-)

James Ojaste

From:	NEWSHADOW@*.com NEWSHADOW@*.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:28:50 EST

Message no. 17 In a message dated 3/22/99 11:04:48 AM Pacific Standard Time,
James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA writes:

<SNIP>

> If people object to adding a field for BABY#, I can always just set up
> a new email alias... ;-)

I don't own a BABY myself, couldn't afford one, then or now, but I do not
object to there being a space for the BABY number. James is right, it is a
matter of pride for the owners. I do not view it as a matter of shame that I
do not have one. And I'll buy the list shirt with or without the BABY numbers.

-NewShadow

From:	GMPax@*.com GMPax@*.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:42:47 EST

Message no. 18 In a message dated 3/22/99 8:58:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, granite@**.net
writes:

> 16] Something version with a Japanmation cat called Hello Kitty on it

As my girlfriend dictates, I vote for this one; I'll buy two, one for her and
one for me (well maybe just the one for her), if they come in 2X and/or 3X
(we're big folks). She's a Hello Kitty fiend. <g>

Sean
GM Pax

From:	GMPax@*.com GMPax@*.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:27:21 EST

Message no. 19 In a message dated 3/22/99 1:22:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
emeottrw@***.umn.edu writes:

> My question is the BABY# negotiable? I am interested in the shirt, but
> never had the chance to get a copy (no GenCon for me, and I didn't get
> online the morning they were sold out). As a result, I doubt I will ever
> have a copy, and thus no number to put by the name. I don't know if any
> other list members are in this boat, but I know I am.

Ditto for me. Obviously (to me), though, the BABY# will be "part of the
name" for those that have one, and desire to advertise it (like anyone who HAS
A BABY will NOT want to tell the whole world, LoL).

Sean
GM Pax

From:	GRANITE granite@**.net
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:32:43 -0700

Message no. 20 > this gets my vote

But it isn't time to vote yet..So it didn't count yet..let me get all
of the ideas together..then I will post the gigantic ideas
message..and then we wil lvote...Privately..I will post the
talley..adn we will have our winning ideas..which we wil develope and
then vote on again according to quality of artwork...

As for the Baby thing..first off I hate calling it that..We will
figure that out in a straight vote -Later-..Quit arguing about
it..Personally I got one and probably will not furnish the number ..I
have not participated in giving out my SR3 Hard cover edition number
discussions that have occured and do not plan to in the future..There
are some things I like to keep to mysef..

As for the names on the back..That is non-negotiable..-Perhaps-
special arrangements can be made..but that garners a 'Giant Hassle
Flag' ...And would cost the same as the TShirt with the names..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
==============================================Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The
Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
==============================================Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Jamais Arriere

From:	Quicksilver qwksilvr@*****.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:57:14 -0600

Message no. 21 At 06:52 AM 3/22/99 -0700, you wrote:
>11] Some variation of the troll in his pink
>bathrobe and bunny slippers,
>..Got Runners?
>..Runner's Day Off
>..Got Nerps?

'Shadowrun / Be your own boss.'
or
'Don't even think it...'
---
I'm just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood.
ICQ #30414011 ---

From:	Quicksilver qwksilvr@*****.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:02:34 -0600

Message no. 22 At 12:53 PM 3/22/99 -0500, you wrote:
>"GRANITE" <granite@**.net> writes:
>> the back will have the traditional list of members who
>> paid for a shirt and probably something about t...
>
> Is this non-negotiable? I would really like a ShadowRN
>t-shirt, but have no interest in one with a bunch of names on the
>back. I know, I've mentioned this already, but I was wondering if
>anyone else feels the same way about this silly name thing.

One could probably just ask the printer to make one without printing the
back. But a blank shirt might not be any better.
---
I'm just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood.
ICQ #30414011 ---

From:	Quicksilver qwksilvr@*****.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:11:45 -0600

Message no. 23 At 01:25 PM 3/22/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Manx wrote:
>
>> I vote for the option that includes the most of the following criterion
>> 1) The list's address on it (promote the list, promote the game)
>> 2) A Carp reference
>> 3) Names on the back
>> 4) BABY #'s
>> 5) The SR3 "S"
>> 6) The year (1999- The Sixth World -Twelve years and counting..")
>
>I vote for all of the above with the following notes, I still think
>the SR3 "S" could be placed on the sleeve, allowing for some more
>unique art to be placed on the front.

The list addy might look good on the sleeve.

Hg

---
I'm just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood.
ICQ #30414011 ---

From:	Quicksilver qwksilvr@*****.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:17:04 -0600

Message no. 24 Someone wrote:
>> > My question is the BABY# negotiable? I am interested in the shirt, but
>> > never had the chance to get a copy (no GenCon for me, and I didn't get
>> > online the morning they were sold out). As a result, I doubt I will ever
>> > have a copy, and thus no number to put by the name. I don't know if any
>> > other list members are in this boat, but I know I am.

Someone else wrote:
>> I'm sure that you're not alone in missing out on getting a BABY, but
>> for those that have one, it's a mark of pride - a testimony to
>> (warning of) to our devotion to (obsession with) the genius that is
>> Shadowrun (a game)!

For the record: I have a BABY and really don't care whether the number is
on the shirt or not. Actually, I'd prefer more artwork over the list of
names, but tradition is tradition.

Hg

---
I'm just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood.
ICQ #30414011 ---

From:	nocturnal@*****.net nocturnal@*****.net
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:51:16 -0600

Message no. 25 An unknown person wrote:

> >> My question is the BABY# negotiable? I am interested in the shirt, but
> >> never had the chance to get a copy (no GenCon for me, and I didn't get
> >> online the morning they were sold out). As a result, I doubt I will ever
> >> have a copy, and thus no number to put by the name. I don't know if any
> >> other list members are in this boat, but I know I am.

Life sucks... believe me, I know. My dealer held a raffle for a BABY,
and I put in $10 worth of tickets... I didn't get the baby and I put in
the most money's worth. *sigh*

The next person down was $8... and he just happened to win it.

From:	nocturnal@*****.net nocturnal@*****.net
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:51:48 -0600

Message no. 26 Ack... that last message; forgot to sign.

Nocturnal (under plenty of stress... sorry)

From:	Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:36:40 -0500

Message no. 27 > In a message dated 3/22/99 11:04:48 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA writes:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> If people object to adding a field for BABY#, I can always just set up
>> a new email alias... ;-)
>
> I don't own a BABY myself, couldn't afford one, then or now, but I do not
> object to there being a space for the BABY number.

I'm the opposite. I have a BABY, but I view the inclusion of such numbers a
bit elitist. I'd buy a shirt in either case, but I could see why people
might get irked about it.

On the other hand, society in 2057 is somewhat elitist, so maybe it's
proper.

Wordman

From:	Paul Gettle RunnerPaul@*****.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:09:58 -0500

Message no. 28 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 07:36 PM 3/22/99 -0500, Wordman wrote:
>> I don't own a BABY myself, couldn't afford one, then or now, but I
do not
>> object to there being a space for the BABY number.
>
>I'm the opposite. I have a BABY, but I view the inclusion of such
numbers a
>bit elitist. I'd buy a shirt in either case, but I could see why
people
>might get irked about it.
>
>On the other hand, society in 2057 is somewhat elitist, so maybe it's
>proper.

Not to mention that the shirt is _already_ elitist in the fact that
the only names that get listed on the back are the people who actually
buy the shirt, and not the entire ShadowRN subscriber list at the time
that the shirt is made.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.0.2

iQCVAwUBNvb376PbvUVI86rNAQHYTgP/TZhvXv7Qhk6wAdCnpXXIBo267Wa3nUVn
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TIZE0d/nqcDpWuDpj+S6j7gMGSKW3I37w7jD7JkEOWLvRmZHmkXCSmpjDhunI/Zy
Ttl7PCc0MsM=GxIi
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

From:	NightLife habenir@*****.uc.edu
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:53:44 -0500

Message no. 29 At 09:47 AM 3/22/99 -0600, you wrote:
>> 2]
>> Sounds humorous. Of course I perfer the idea of the troll in the
>> bathrobe and bunny slippers idea. -- 3] how about the troll hoisting
>> the CARP with the words "I've been Thwapped at
>> shadowrn@*********.org".
>>
>> You could print the SR "S" in a light colour on the back and overlay
>> the names of the listmembers over it. Best of both worlds.
>
>I really like this one, gives the list name and the back has a little more
>to it.
Sounds good to be this gets my vote

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Historically, the Germans had a habit of associating the names of objects
with the sounds they made. In keeping with this tradition when cannons
were first made they became known as the bum for boom! The first 100-
pound bomb was dubbed "ein lautes Bumm " a loud boom!" After the first
atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, they called the fission device
"ein grosses Bumm " or a big loud boom!" The next obvious step was the
fusion, or H-bomb, which was pronounced
"ein grosses lautes Bumm all ist kaput!"

Paraphrased from "Dust" by Charles Pellegrino
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

From:	Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:31:49 -0600

Message no. 30 I like the S / names combination idea, but there are better ways to do
this than making it a light color and overprinting the names. Below are 2
that require only 1 color printing, which is cheaper (allowing for a front
and back, perhaps):

1) lay out the names and other text, then superimpose the "S" as a mask,
using it to alter the text and background enough that it can be
distinguished

2) wrap the text around the S. Any page layout program can do this, but
nothing that I have will do it.
I do have a fancy idea for laying out the text RADIALLY from the S-
the S would be in the center, and the names form rays around it. I can do
that in PhotoShop, which I do have.

The "S" itself, if used, should also be dressed up a bit- I think a
chrome or similar treatment would be nice: if anybody has any cool font
FX, they should speak up.

I for one would not mind paying as much as $20 to cover the cost of a
shirt and shipping, but cost was a big issue last year, it seems.
Anything requiring more than 2 screens seemed expensive.

Mongoose

From:	Keldon Mor Keldon@********.net
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:41:17 -0600

Message no. 31 > My question is the BABY# negotiable? I am interested in the shirt, but
> never had the chance to get a copy (no GenCon for me, and I didn't get
> online the morning they were sold out). As a result, I doubt I will ever
> have a copy, and thus no number to put by the name. I don't know if any
> other list members are in this boat, but I know I am.

or...what if you have two BABY's?

Peace,
Keldon@********.net
http://ww2.netnitco.net/users/keldon

From:	Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:01:01 +1000

Message no. 32 >You may be proud of your achievement, but it doesn't make me any less
>devoted to Shadowrun. I try (albeit not very well) to maintain a web
>page, I buy every product put out (and try to get those that are no longer
>out), and I run a very serious campaign. Heck, I even try to actually
>read all the posts to Shadowrn (and sometimes don't get my work done
>because of it).

Nobody is questioning your devotion to Shadowrun,
after all you are here aren't you. What is the problem
with a bunch of numbers? You'll have your name on
the shirt after all and ShadowRN is not an exclusive club
for BABY owners

>As you can see just because I don't have a BABY doesn't mean I am any less
>devoted. I couldn't get to GenCon (no vacation at the time), and I
>couldn't get online to get a copy (because of the connection at work, and
>no home computer). I wish I had been able to, and I too would be rather
>happy, but it just wasn't a possibility.

Hey buddy I couldn't go the 16,000 miles to Gen Con either,
nor could I get online due to the time difference and my
need to actually be asleep at 3:00am on a Tuesday morning.
I was just lucky and talking to the right person at the right time
(the Australian SR distributor).

>I guess what I'm trying to say is that you may be very proud of your BABY,
>but that still doesn't mean that there are others out there in the same
>boat I'm in that weren't able to get online, and are just as dedicated.

Nobody is disputing your reasoning just your logic. The reason that
I suggested the BABY #'s be put on the shirt is not to be elitist or
condescending rather to acknowledge the important milestone
that the release of SR3 was and to signify our role in that. Just
because there isn't three numbers after the name Ryan Bolduan
on the shirt doesn't in anyway mean that Ryan Bolduan is a
loser and isn't dedicated to Shadowrun. Basically the inclusion
of the numbers is a once in a lifetime thing that everyone should
acknowledge and a step forward in the development of the game
that we ALL love.

>The names is a great idea and I would be happy to have it on the shirt,
>but I just don't see why putting your BABY# is needed (especially since it
>will alienate some list members that couldn't get a copy).
> Ryan Bolduan

It seems Ryan that you are intent on alienating yourself here.
Let me ask you this question and please answer it honestly.

If you had a BABY would you want your number on the shirt?

Just because you don't have one please don't begrudge me mine.
I don't think any less of you for not owning a damn book. To suggest
otherwise is crazy.

Manx
timburke@*******.com.au
#950 of 1000
__________________________________
"Such carping is not commendable"
- William Shakespeare
- Much Ado About Nothing a3.s1.l71
__________________________________
Play SR3 at Maelstrom, 1st-3rd May 1999
http://brisbane.diggycity.com/maelstrom

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:39:39 +0100

Message no. 33 According to Mark A Shieh, at 12:53 on 22 Mar 99, the word on
the street was...

> Is this non-negotiable? I would really like a ShadowRN
> t-shirt, but have no interest in one with a bunch of names on the
> back. I know, I've mentioned this already, but I was wondering if
> anyone else feels the same way about this silly name thing.

Quite the opposite. IMHO there's no need to do a T-shirt if it won't have
the names of everyone who bought a shirt on the back.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
What in the wide wide world of sports is going on here?!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:39:40 +0100

Message no. 34 According to Mongoose, at 16:31 on 22 Mar 99, the word on
the street was...

> 2) wrap the text around the S. Any page layout program can do this, but
> nothing that I have will do it.

Easy enough to do with something like Pagemaker. Alternatively, with a bit
more work it's easily doable in a graphics program just by placing each
name manually on the image.

> I do have a fancy idea for laying out the text RADIALLY from the S-
> the S would be in the center, and the names form rays around it. I can do
> that in PhotoShop, which I do have.

Sounds cool, but won't it take up a lot of space, and make many names hard
to read? Still, doing a little test would soon give an answer to those
questions.

> The "S" itself, if used, should also be dressed up a bit- I think a
> chrome or similar treatment would be nice: if anybody has any cool font
> FX, they should speak up.

Wouldn't this be possible in graphics programs like Photoshop (not being a
Photoshop user, I don't know what it can and cannot do).

> I for one would not mind paying as much as $20 to cover the cost of a
> shirt and shipping, but cost was a big issue last year, it seems.
> Anything requiring more than 2 screens seemed expensive.

The 1994 and 1995 shirts used three screens: one for the front (white) and
two for the back (white and green). Prices were reasonable, but that _was_
about 5 years ago, so they may have increased a lot since then. I don't
know...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
What in the wide wide world of sports is going on here?!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Ryan W. Bolduan emeottrw@***.umn.edu
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:09:43 -0600 (CST)

Message no. 35 > It seems Ryan that you are intent on alienating yourself here.
> Let me ask you this question and please answer it honestly.
>
> If you had a BABY would you want your number on the shirt?
>
If this issue were brought up by somebody else, then yes I would support
that point of view. I see the whole BABY# bragging (yes it is braggin) as
very elitist and something that overall alienates other list members
(albeit in most cases inadvertently) that wish they could have gotten a
copy, but weren't able to. I'm very happy that circumstance fared well for
you and you were able to get your hands on a copy; however, there are
others that didn't just have one "fall" into their lap. If you see it as
alienating myself from the list, that's fine. Personally, I feel
that I'm not alienating myself, rather, the people that are insisting that
the BABY# be put on are alienating those that haven't recieved the same
"status symbol." I really don't want this to degenerate into a flame war,
I just want it to be known that if the BABY#'s are put on the list that I
probably won't be interested in the shirt. I'm not going to speak for
anybody else, but I would guess that somebody else is probably in the same
shoes I'm in.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Bolduan emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu
http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~emeottrw

A person concerned with such important matters as I, need not, and should
not, attend to spelling.
--Napolean
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:38:33 -0500

Message no. 36 Ryan W. Bolduan wrote:
> > It seems Ryan that you are intent on alienating yourself here.
> > Let me ask you this question and please answer it honestly.
> >
> > If you had a BABY would you want your number on the shirt?
> >
> If this issue were brought up by somebody else, then yes I would support
> that point of view. I see the whole BABY# bragging (yes it is braggin) as
>
Huh? Who's that "somebody else" with whom you'll agree? Why won't
you agree because it's *us* asking?

I disagree with call it bragging. It's not an accomplishment or feat
that we've somehow managed - we bought a book. Yay. It's the *book*
we're celebrating. We're not going around saying "Nyah nyah - we have
a BABY and *you* don't!"; that would be stupid. I, for one, am proud
to own a little bit of history, is all...

Let me ask you a question: did you think it elitist bragging that
GridSec members/*FL were sorted to the top of the list on last year's
shirt?

[snip]
> others that didn't just have one "fall" into their lap. If you see it as
> alienating myself from the list, that's fine. Personally, I feel
> that I'm not alienating myself, rather, the people that are insisting that
> the BABY# be put on are alienating those that haven't recieved the same
> "status symbol." I really don't want this to degenerate into a flame war,
>
I don't think anybody's *insisting* - I just know that I'd prefer it.

> I just want it to be known that if the BABY#'s are put on the list that I
> probably won't be interested in the shirt. I'm not going to speak for
> anybody else, but I would guess that somebody else is probably in the same
> shoes I'm in.
>
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I honestly doubt that anybody else
will refrain from buying a shirt if BABY#s are printed on it...

James Ojaste

From:	Ryan W. Bolduan emeottrw@***.umn.edu
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:26:46 -0600 (CST)

Message no. 37 On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:

> Huh? Who's that "somebody else" with whom you'll agree? Why won't
> you agree because it's *us* asking?

The point is that I don't like the idea and I think it is elitist. If,
and that's the key word here, I did own a BABY, and somebody else were to
say that they didn't want the numbers on the shirt, I would support them.

>
> I disagree with call it bragging. It's not an accomplishment or feat
> that we've somehow managed - we bought a book. Yay. It's the *book*
> we're celebrating. We're not going around saying "Nyah nyah - we have
> a BABY and *you* don't!"; that would be stupid. I, for one, am proud
> to own a little bit of history, is all...
>

You may not think that you're bragging because it's not as overt as a flat
out "nyah-nayh," but in a way it is. Under your deffinition, if I were
to drive a brand new sports car through a group of my friends that can't
afford anything more expensive than a Chevy Cavalier that wouldn't be
bragging as long as I weren't crying out, "look at my cool new car
suckers!" (or some such thing). It *is* showing off to those that are far
less fortunate.

> Let me ask you a question: did you think it elitist bragging that
> GridSec members/*FL were sorted to the top of the list on last year's
> shirt?
>

No, why? Because without the GridSec members there wouldn't be a list.
You don't *need* a hardcover version to play the game (although it would
be nice). You're mixing apples and oranges here.

> I don't think anybody's *insisting* - I just know that I'd prefer it.

I'm sorry, change insisting to prefer if you chose, it still doesn't
change anything.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Bolduan emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu
http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~emeottrw

A person concerned with such important matters as I, need not, and should
not, attend to spelling.
--Napolean
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:01:40 -0500

Message no. 38 Ryan W. Bolduan wrote:
> > Huh? Who's that "somebody else" with whom you'll agree? Why won't
> > you agree because it's *us* asking?
>
> The point is that I don't like the idea and I think it is elitist. If,
> and that's the key word here, I did own a BABY, and somebody else were to
> say that they didn't want the numbers on the shirt, I would support them.
>
AH! Sorry, I thought you were saying that you'd support our position
if somebody else had posited it to you.

> > I disagree with call it bragging. It's not an accomplishment or feat
> > that we've somehow managed - we bought a book. Yay. It's the *book*
> > we're celebrating. We're not going around saying "Nyah nyah - we have
> > a BABY and *you* don't!"; that would be stupid. I, for one, am proud
> > to own a little bit of history, is all...
> You may not think that you're bragging because it's not as overt as a flat
> out "nyah-nayh," but in a way it is. Under your deffinition, if I were
> to drive a brand new sports car through a group of my friends that can't
> afford anything more expensive than a Chevy Cavalier that wouldn't be
> bragging as long as I weren't crying out, "look at my cool new car
> suckers!" (or some such thing). It *is* showing off to those that are far
> less fortunate.
>
Buy the car you like. Drive it where you like. Driving the one car
you have to meet the friends you want to see isn't bragging - if any
part of this scenario could be considered bragging, it would be the
purchase of the vehicle in the first place. I see no shame in being
proud of what one has accomplished, so long as you don't put others
down in doing so. I also see no shame in owning nice things - you've
worked hard to get them, why not take pleasure in them?

Bragging, to me, requires an intent to raise one's self by holding
down others. I can only speak for myself (I assume/expect/hope that
it's the same for everybody else here), but I have no desire to
hurt others. I do not brag that I wrote a vehicle editor for R2 - but
I *am* proud of it. I don't point to people and say "you *didn't*", I
point to myself and say "I *did*". If you can't see the difference,
then there's no point in continuing this discussion...

> > Let me ask you a question: did you think it elitist bragging that
> > GridSec members/*FL were sorted to the top of the list on last year's
> > shirt?
> No, why? Because without the GridSec members there wouldn't be a list.
> You don't *need* a hardcover version to play the game (although it would
> be nice). You're mixing apples and oranges here.
>
Here I must disagree - there was a list *long* before there was GridSec.
Years in fact. The list composition hasn't changed too much since
GridSec appeared - the main change is that when somebody does something
annoying they're not jumped on by 50 people thwapping them, they're
thwapped privately for the most part. So, you don't *need* GridSec to
have the ShadowRN list, but it's nice.

> > I don't think anybody's *insisting* - I just know that I'd prefer it.
> I'm sorry, change insisting to prefer if you chose, it still doesn't
> change anything.
>
It certainly does! "Insisting" carries the connotation of "this
decision must be made and I will accept no other decision" whereas
"prefer" is closer to "I would like this decision to be reached, but
I'm willing to accept other decisions". In short, I'll probably buy
a shirt regardless of whether it has BABY#s on it (although I wouldn't
be quite as happy with it if it didn't).

James Ojaste

From:	Jordan findlerman@*****.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:13:35 -0800 (PST)

Message no. 39 > > I just want it to be known that if the BABY#'s are put on the list
that I
> > probably won't be interested in the shirt. I'm not going to speak
for
> > anybody else, but I would guess that somebody else is probably in
the same
> > shoes I'm in.
> >
> I'm sorry you feel that way, but I honestly doubt that anybody else
> will refrain from buying a shirt if BABY#s are printed on it...

Think again. I'm with Ryan on this one. This is, of corse, before I
hear what will go in my 'BABY space,' since I don't have one (yet). I
don't want to buy a shirt that has 30-50 names with #s after them, and
then mine, barren, with just empty space after my name. So, if the
BABY #s are in, I will have to reconsider buying one as well...

*shrug*

Do with it what you will,

--Fin
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From:	Tim Kerby drekhead@***.net
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:30:32 -0500

Message no. 40 On 23 Mar 99, at 11:13, Jordan wrote:

> > I'm sorry you feel that way, but I honestly doubt that anybody else will
> > refrain from buying a shirt if BABY#s are printed on it...
>
> Think again. I'm with Ryan on this one. This is, of corse, before I hear
> what will go in my 'BABY space,' since I don't have one (yet). I don't
> want to buy a shirt that has 30-50 names with #s after them, and then
> mine, barren, with just empty space after my name. So, if the BABY #s are
> in, I will have to reconsider buying one as well...

You and Ryan (and everyone else for that matter) need to know that
the process will be democratic. We will hold a vote, and if the
majority wants BABY #'s, they are on the shirt. Plain and simple.
There is no need to argue over it.

--

================================================================ - Tim Kerby -
drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the the universe." -Albert Einstein

From:	Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:38:01 -0500

Message no. 41 Jordan wrote:
> > > I just want it to be known that if the BABY#'s are put on the list
> that I
> > > probably won't be interested in the shirt. I'm not going to speak
[snip]
> > I'm sorry you feel that way, but I honestly doubt that anybody else
> > will refrain from buying a shirt if BABY#s are printed on it...
>
> Think again. I'm with Ryan on this one. This is, of corse, before I
> hear what will go in my 'BABY space,' since I don't have one (yet). I
> don't want to buy a shirt that has 30-50 names with #s after them, and
> then mine, barren, with just empty space after my name. So, if the
> BABY #s are in, I will have to reconsider buying one as well...
>
Well, it shouldn't stand out, if that's what you're worried about -
have you seen Mongoose's design? It's not exactly grid-oriented. :-)
Not to mention the natural variance in names and email addresses...
I'd expect the format to look something like
First Last (email@***.ress.com, #XXX)

Whatever happens, it'll end up being a vote anyhow. Nobody's going to
just arbitrarily decide - if you want a particular design, I'd suggest
working on an image or two and posting them for the list to look at...

James Ojaste

From:	Jordan findlerman@*****.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:50:00 -0800 (PST)

Message no. 42 > Well, it shouldn't stand out, if that's what you're worried about -
> have you seen Mongoose's design?

Yes, I have, and it is most excellent, btw.
*Fin applauds Mongoose*

> I'd expect the format to look something like
> First Last (email@***.ress.com, #XXX)

True, and it's not a *huge* thing for me...but it's not just that.
OK, you don't seem to know, being on the BABY in and all, that there
are people out there who want one, and reguardless of your
*intentions* when you say that you are a 'proud owner of BABY #XXX'
that it reminds me that I don't have one. I resent that, reguardless
of weather you are intending to brag or not. It's like a reminder
that I don't have one, because I wasn't dedicated enough to get online
within the two hour time span, or whatever...not something that I want
on a shirt that I am to be 'proud' of. Now, take a step back. I am
not saying that this is all that there is to the shirt, and I realise
that it's (quite litterally) a small thing (half an inch at best), but
it is not something that I want on my shirt...and I don't think that
Ryan and i are the only ones on the list who don't own BABYs (though I
could be wrong... :( )

> Whatever happens, it'll end up being a vote anyhow. Nobody's going to
> just arbitrarily decide

True enough.

> if you want a particular design, I'd suggest
> working on an image or two and posting them for the list to look at...

Heh. I would, but I haven't the resources or time anymore...sorry,
maybe next year...

--Fin
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From:	GRANITE granite@**.net
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:14:09 -0700

Message no. 43 Alright folks..PLEASE!
Change the Subject line or better yet take the Baby or not the Baby
argument OFF LINE! If you wil at least change the subject line I can
mass delete the whole thing..Thanks..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
==============================================Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The
Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
==============================================Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Jamais Arriere

From:	Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:39:16 -0600

Message no. 44 >> I'm sorry you feel that way, but I honestly doubt that anybody else
>> will refrain from buying a shirt if BABY#s are printed on it...
>
>Think again. I'm with Ryan on this one. This is, of corse, before I
>hear what will go in my 'BABY space,' since I don't have one (yet).

Aw, geez, just give it a bloody rest!

>I don't want to buy a shirt that has 30-50 names with #s after them,
>and then mine, barren, with just empty space after my name.

Well, I plan to buy one, and I don't have a BABY either, so I think you're
just being silly about the whole damn thing.

>So, if the
>BABY #s are in, I will have to reconsider buying one as well...

Your loss, not ours.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	ArcLight arclight@**************.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:08:03 +0100

Message no. 45 > -----Original Message-----
> From: shadowrn-admin@*********.org On Behalf Of Tim Kerby
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 8:31 PM
> To: shadowrn@*********.org
> Subject: RE: T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!

<snip>

> You and Ryan (and everyone else for that matter) need to know that
> the process will be democratic. We will hold a vote, and if the
> majority wants BABY #'s, they are on the shirt. Plain and simple.
> There is no need to argue over it.

And, if I might add a suggestion, this would be a very nice end of
this discussion as this exactly is to the point.

However, I just wanted to let you know that my sister will try to
come up with that "troll in fluffy slippers", and of course
with a glass of milk :). IMVHO, she is a pretty good illustrator.
So let's wait for the result...

ArcLight
[BABY #361]------------[ICQ 14322211]
All suspects are guilty, serious.
Otherwise, they wouldn't be suspects,
would they?

From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:20:07 -0600

Message no. 46 On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:08:03 +0100 "ArcLight"
<arclight@**************.com> writes:
<SNIP>
>However, I just wanted to let you know that my sister will try to
>come up with that "troll in fluffy slippers", and of course
>with a glass of milk :). IMVHO, she is a pretty good illustrator.
>So let's wait for the result...

Groovy. :) I'm gonna try to do the Cow w/ Runners thing so can the
respective creators of the entities involved please describe a the
book-shuriken-throwing-fuzzy-slipper-wearing-troll, the group of runners,
and the kid on the cow? :)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"You, you're like a spoonful of whoopass." --Grace
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

___________________________________________________________________
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From:	Dave Post caelric@****.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:31:37 -0800

Message no. 47 At 11:50 AM 3/23/99 -0800, Fin wrote:
<snip most of message>
>
>.and I don't think that
>Ryan and i are the only ones on the list who don't own BABYs (though I
>could be wrong... :( )
>
>--Fin

Nope, you're not wrong....I don't own a BABY, although I do own every other
SR bookm except for that 'Art of SR' thing. And, I don't particulary care
to see the the baby number on the shirt, although I doubt I will let that
stop me from buying a shirt..

Dave

From:	Starrngr@*.com Starrngr@*.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:05:58 EST

Message no. 48 In a message dated 3/23/99 4:32:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, dghost@****.com
writes:

> I'm gonna try to do the Cow w/ Runners thing so can the
> respective creators of the entities involved please describe a the
> book-shuriken-throwing-fuzzy-slipper-wearing-troll, the group of runners,
> and the kid on the cow? :)

Noooo Problem Ghost. The cow and runners: The cow is your basic white cow
with black splotches, no horns. The kid riding her is about 12-13, short
blonde hair, and dressed like he's the son of a high level corp exec. The cow
is walking along rather sedately, while the runners are running like mad to
keep up, and consist of A male human with an obvious cyberarm carrying a BIG
handgun, a zaftig female elf with red hair being followed by a Rotor drone, A
male dwarf in sort of Jedi like garb waving a sword over his head, and a big
troll in the back waving a staff like he is trying to cast a spell. How much
more detail do you want?

From:	Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:21:47 -0800

Message no. 49 Starrngr@***.com wrote:

> In a message dated 3/23/99 4:32:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, dghost@****.com
> writes:
>
> > I'm gonna try to do the Cow w/ Runners thing so can the
> > respective creators of the entities involved please describe a the
> > book-shuriken-throwing-fuzzy-slipper-wearing-troll, the group of runners,
> > and the kid on the cow? :)
>
> Noooo Problem Ghost. The cow and runners: The cow is your basic white cow
> with black splotches, no horns. The kid riding her is about 12-13, short
> blonde hair, and dressed like he's the son of a high level corp exec. The cow
> is walking along rather sedately, while the runners are running like mad to
> keep up, and consist of A male human with an obvious cyberarm carrying a BIG
> handgun, a zaftig female elf with red hair being followed by a Rotor drone, A
> male dwarf in sort of Jedi like garb waving a sword over his head, and a big
> troll in the back waving a staff like he is trying to cast a spell. How much
> more detail do you want?

Perhaps the kid should be younger? like, 3-5?

From:	Starrngr@*.com Starrngr@*.com
Subject:	T-shirt time! - Lets get to Voting!
Date:	Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:30:20 EST

Message no. 50 In a message dated 3/23/99 5:22:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, cpenta@*****.com
writes:

> Perhaps the kid should be younger? like, 3-5?
>

Perhaps, Cpenta, but the problem there is the whole set up came from a silly
run idea from about January. Basicly, since real food is rarer and expensive,
etc, Someone had a brainstorm about some High up Exec getting his son a cow as
part of the kids learning... The kid was supposed to raise it, and take care
of it, and when the time was right, Kill it and turn it into cow burgers.
Well, along the way, the kid falls in love with his "pet" and when the time
comes, diverts some of Daddy's assests and takes it on the Lam. Clearly, this
doesnt work if the kid is very young. 10-13 is about as young as could be
feasable. A 3-5 year old wouldnt be able to grasp what is going on, nor be
able to pull it all off.

As a run, the runners come in one of two ways... either the kid hires them to
help him get his pet to saftey, or the Father hired them to find the kid and
his cow and bring them back... part of the payoff being 2-3 pounds of real,
fresh beef each.

Message no. 51 Starrngr@***.com wrote:

> In a message dated 3/23/99 5:22:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, cpenta@*****.com
> writes:
>
> > Perhaps the kid should be younger? like, 3-5?
> >
>
> Perhaps, Cpenta, but the problem there is the whole set up came from a silly
> run idea from about January. Basicly, since real food is rarer and expensive,
> etc, Someone had a brainstorm about some High up Exec getting his son a cow as
> part of the kids learning... The kid was supposed to raise it, and take care
> of it, and when the time was right, Kill it and turn it into cow burgers.
> Well, along the way, the kid falls in love with his "pet" and when the time
> comes, diverts some of Daddy's assests and takes it on the Lam. Clearly, this
> doesnt work if the kid is very young. 10-13 is about as young as could be
> feasable. A 3-5 year old wouldnt be able to grasp what is going on, nor be
> able to pull it all off.

<kersnip>
Yeah, I remember....But, only a little kid could get so attached to an animal.:>

John

Message no. 52 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 12:41 AM 3/23/99 -0600, Keldon Mor wrote:
or...what if you have two BABY's?

Then sell one to me. I know someone who needs one. (If you're
interested, email me privately.)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.0.2

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

Message no. 53 Once upon a time, Penta wrote;

>Yeah, I remember....But, only a little kid could get so attached to an
>animal.:>

You haven't seen me around my cats, Babooshka and Geisha.

-MC23, who is a big kid-

Message no. 54 In a message dated 3/23/99 6:33:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, cpenta@*****.com
writes:

> 10-13 is about as young as could be
> > feasable. A 3-5 year old wouldnt be able to grasp what is going on, nor
> be
> > able to pull it all off.
>
> <kersnip>
> Yeah, I remember....But, only a little kid could get so attached to an
> animal.:>
>
10-13 is still very young. 4th to 6th graders. Young enoung to still be
attached to the cow but old enough to realisticly be able to pull it off.

Message no. 55 On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:39:25 -0500 MC23 <mc23@**********.com> writes:
>You haven't seen me around my cats, Babooshka and Geisha.

Do you and your cats have tea together? ;)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"You, you're like a spoonful of whoopass." --Grace
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 56 On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:05:58 EST Starrngr@***.com writes:
<SNIP>
>Noooo Problem Ghost. The cow and runners: The cow is your basic white
cow
>with black splotches, no horns.

I'm a city kid, I thought all cows had horns ... just the males (ie,
bulls) had big `uns.

>The kid riding her is about 12-13, short
>blonde hair, and dressed like he's the son of a high level corp exec.

Not being the son of a high level corp exec, wot's that like? :)

>The cow
>is walking along rather sedately, while the runners are running like mad
to
>keep up, and consist of A male human with an obvious cyberarm carrying a
BIG
>handgun,

Reveolver or automatic? Any particular calibur/make (Savalette Guardian,
Colt Anaconda, etc ...)?

>a zaftig female elf with red hair being followed by a Rotor drone,

What the hell is a zaftig?

>A
>male dwarf in sort of Jedi like garb waving a sword over his head,

Seen HOL? ... BEN!!! :)

> and a big
>troll in the back waving a staff like he is trying to cast a spell. How
much
>more detail do you want?

You know, I thought the fuzzy slippered troll was in on this ... Now I
remember, that came later as possible opposition for the runners
depending on what side they were on...

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"You, you're like a spoonful of whoopass." --Grace
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 57 D. Ghost writes:
> I'm a city kid, I thought all cows had horns ... just the males (ie,
> bulls) had big `uns.

Most domestic cows/bulls go through a process known as de-horning. Similar
to de-clawing, and I'm sure you can guess what's involved.

> >a zaftig female elf with red hair being followed by a Rotor drone,

Stacked and stupid... ;) Normally, zaftig females would be blonde, which
sort of rounds out the picture.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com

Message no. 58 In a message dated 3/23/99 10:38:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, dghost@****.com
writes:

> I'm a city kid, I thought all cows had horns ... just the males (ie,
> bulls) had big `uns.

Yeah, but you can de-horn them. Honest.

> >The kid riding her is about 12-13, short
> >blonde hair, and dressed like he's the son of a high level corp exec.
>
> Not being the son of a high level corp exec, wot's that like? :)

Expensive sort of clothes... Tres Chic, in game terms. Ugh. the sort the
Hip people would wear for a night of clubbing.

>
> Reveolver or automatic? Any particular calibur/make (Savalette Guardian,
> Colt Anaconda, etc ...)?
>

Give him a Desert Eagle.

> >a zaftig female elf with red hair being followed by a Rotor drone,
>
> What the hell is a zaftig?
>

Curves in ALL the right places. Bluntly, big tits.

> >A
> >male dwarf in sort of Jedi like garb waving a sword over his head,
>
> Seen HOL? ... BEN!!! :)

No, I havent yet. Whats HOL?

> You know, I thought the fuzzy slippered troll was in on this ... Now I
> remember, that came later as possible opposition for the runners
> depending on what side they were on...
>

Message no. 59 On Wed, 24 Mar 1999 02:09:21 EST Starrngr@***.com writes:
>In a message dated 3/23/99 10:38:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dghost@****.com
>writes:
<SNIP>
>> >The kid riding her is about 12-13, short
>> >blonde hair, and dressed like he's the son of a high level corp
exec.
>>
>> Not being the son of a high level corp exec, wot's that like? :)

>Expensive sort of clothes... Tres Chic, in game terms. Ugh. the sort
the
>Hip people would wear for a night of clubbing.

Not being hip ... J/k I know what some peeps where to clubs (I just try
to get away with T-shirt & jeans and usually succeed :)

<SNIP>
>> >a zaftig female elf with red hair being followed by a Rotor drone,

>> What the hell is a zaftig?

>Curves in ALL the right places. Bluntly, big tits.

AH ... Now how the hell did Zaftig grow to to mean THAT? Ie, can somebod
recount the history? :)

>> >A
>> >male dwarf in sort of Jedi like garb waving a sword over his head,

>> Seen HOL? ... BEN!!! :)

>No, I havent yet. Whats HOL?
<SNIP>

I don't have HOL handy at the minute so I can't check the exact name of
the NPC, it's something New Rublic Freedom Fighter or somesuch. Btw, HOL
is pronounced hole and stands for Human Occupied Landfill; It's great! :)
Anyway, said HOL NPC is take off on Luke Skywalker and is depicted
wielding some kind of energy sword, screaming "BEN" franticly (him, not
the sword) whilst being gripped by I giant gauntlet (again, him, not the
sword :).

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"You, you're like a spoonful of whoopass." --Grace
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 60 And verily, did dghost@****.com hastily scribble thusly...
|I'm a city kid, I thought all cows had horns ... just the males (ie,
|bulls) had big `uns.

You've obviously never seen a Fresian(sp???) then.
Black with white blotches commonly found in England, and used for milk.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

Message no. 61 <SNIP>
>You haven't seen me around my cats, Babooshka and Geisha.
>-MC23, who is a big kid-

I'll continue the OT thread. Besides I'm a bigger kid then MC23.
4 dogs. Otis, Harley, Tessa, and Bear.
True his names are more unusual, but can you see calling a 115
bullmastiff mix Babooshka, I think not.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 378-1939
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633

Message no. 62 On 24 Mar 99, at 9:57, Lehlan Decker wrote:

> True his names are more unusual, but can you see calling a 115
> bullmastiff mix Babooshka, I think not.

Damn, Lee! That dog is bigger than you! :)

--

================================================================ - Tim Kerby -
drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the the universe." -Albert Einstein

Message no. 63 In a message dated 3/24/99 12:03:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, dghost@****.com
writes:

> Not being hip ... J/k I know what some peeps where to clubs (I just try
> to get away with T-shirt & jeans and usually succeed :)
>

heh. I dont go out to clubs anymore either. Well, not DANCE clubs anyway. I
have been know to appear in more.... adult.... establishments once every
couple of months tho... and then about as dressy as I get is one of my
flowerdy hi-why-an shirts.

> <SNIP>
> >> >a zaftig female elf with red hair being followed by a Rotor drone,
>
> >> What the hell is a zaftig?
>
> >Curves in ALL the right places. Bluntly, big tits.
>
> AH ... Now how the hell did Zaftig grow to to mean THAT? Ie, can somebod
> recount the history? :)

I dunno.

> I don't have HOL handy at the minute so I can't check the exact name of
> the NPC, it's something New Rublic Freedom Fighter or somesuch. Btw, HOL
> is pronounced hole and stands for Human Occupied Landfill; It's great! :)
> Anyway, said HOL NPC is take off on Luke Skywalker and is depicted
> wielding some kind of energy sword, screaming "BEN" franticly (him, not
> the sword) whilst being gripped by I giant gauntlet (again, him, not the
> sword :).
>
Heh. make him a dwarf with a regular sword (since they dont have e-swords in
SR3 yet) and yeah, youve got the idea.

the description of HOL sure does seem to describe Tatooine, all right.

Message no. 64 And verily, did Starrngr@***.com hastily scribble thusly...
|the description of HOL sure does seem to describe Tatooine, all right.

There're diaper swamps on tattoine?

--
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|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

Message no. 65 Oh, what the hell...?

>>You haven't seen me around my cats, Babooshka and Geisha.
>
>I'll continue the OT thread. Besides I'm a bigger kid then MC23.
>4 dogs. Otis, Harley, Tessa, and Bear.

3 dogs: Bear, Rocky, and Fuzz.

>True his names are more unusual, but can you see calling a 115
>bullmastiff mix Babooshka, I think not.

That would be Tessa, yes? <gdr>

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

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