Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: kyle kohler <kkohler@**.UCR.EDU>
Subject: TSR Copyrights (fwd)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 1994 01:03:13 -0700
Just thought you should all be aware of the action(s) that T$R is
now taking. Especially since some of us are involved in creating things
like ShadowLore and the Psi project. Read it and weep...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 01:21:51 -0700
From: Deird'Re Brooks <deirdre@***.org>
To: Multiple recipients of list <mage-l@*******.com>
Subject: TSR Copyrights (fwd)

Shannon Appel gives TSR something to chew on . . .

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 15:07:18 -0700
From: Shannon D. Appel <appel@****.Berkeley.EDU>
To: ars-magica@****.berkeley.edu
Subject: TSR Copyrights

Just thought you might be interested in the mail that TSR is now
sending to archive sites all over the world (and my, a-hem, irritated
reply).

I'm pretty sure that TSR is in the wrong on the whole issue, since
they're not just trying to protect copyrights or trademarks, but
_ideas_ (ie game systems) which do _not_ have protection. But, I'm
willing to let them stab themself in the foot. WoTC and the M:TG
Juggernaut will roll right over them.

Shannon

------- Forwarded Messages

Return-Path: TSRInc@***.com
Delivery-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 14:32:20 -0700
Received: from mail02.prod.aol.net (mail02.prod.aol.net [192.203.190.97]) by
soda.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/PHILMAIL-1.10) with SMTP id OAA28308 for
<postmaster@****.berkeley.edu>; Thu, 28 Jul 1994 14:29:08 -0700
From: TSRInc@***.com
Received: by mail02.prod.aol.net
(1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA06137; Thu, 28 Jul 1994 17:29:06 -0400
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
Sender: "TSRInc" <TSRInc@***.com>
Message-Id: <9407281728.tn308242@***.com>
To: postmaster@****.berkeley.edu
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 17:28:59 EDT
Subject: TSR Copyrighted Material



SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR:

Your site was recently included in a list of noted FTP sites for DUNGEONS AND
DRAGONS and ADVANCED DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS gaming material. You should be
aware that DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS and all related marks and properties are
copyrighted by TSR, Inc. of Lake Geneva, Wisconsin.

You should also be aware that any items created without a specific license
are infringements of TSR copyrights. Such items include (but are not
limited to) any software, net.books, modules, tables, stories, or rules
modifications which contain elements from our copyrighted properties,
including characters, settings, realm names, noted magic items, spells,
elements of the gaming system, such as ARMOR CLASS, HIT DICE, and so forth.
To date, TSR has not licensed any of these net publications.

On behalf of TSR, Inc. I ask that you examine your public net sites at this
time and remove any material which infringes on TSR copyrights.

Our intention is to find a way to license these and future creative efforts.
In the meantime, remove them from your sites without delay.

To clarify reasoning for this request, I recently posted the following policy
statement to rec.games.frp.dnd:

> As we have begun to explore the online community in depth, we've found many
> avid gamers and fans. We're interested in providing you with the best in
> gaming products that meet our own standards of quality, as well as suiting
> your needs and interests. We know that many gamers develop campaigns and
> other materials entirely for their own use. We think this is great!
> However, when gamers begin sharing their creations with the public, whether
> for profit or not, they are infringing our rights. If we don't make an
> earnest attempt to prevent this infringement of our trademarks and
> copyrights, our ownership of these extremely valuable assets may be
> jeopardized.
>
> A gamer in this situation has a few options. He can strip every TSR
> trademark and all copyright from his creations before putting them in
public
> (i.e. "genericize" the adventure). Or he can share his creations with the
> public in a way that is licensed and approved by TSR. This is the more
> desirable solution, as it protects our rights, and still leaves room for
> gamers to share their creative expressions.
>
> Sometime very soon, we're going to create a place where gamers can legally
> upload and share their creations, including modules, stories and software.
At
> that time, I'd be happy to work with you to give your product a base to
work
> from. We are definitely interested in fostering goodwill among customers,
> and we'd like to see our upcoming effort as a pilot project. Eventually,
we
> want gamers to be able to turn to TSR in cyberspace as easily as they do in
a
> hobby store.

Please feel free to contact me with comments or questions. I will refer any
pertinent queries to our legal department as soon as I receive them.


Rob Repp | InterNet: tsrinc@***.com
Manager, Digital Projects Group | InterNet: mobius@*******.mcs.com
TSR, Inc. | CompuServe: 76217,761
__________________________________ | GEnie: TSR.Online AOL: TSR Inc
All opinions are my own, not TSR's | 414-248-3625 Fax 414-248-0389



------- Message 2

Return-Path: appel@****.Berkeley.EDU
Delivery-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 14:48:07 -0700
Received: from localhost.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by
soda.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/PHILMAIL-1.10) with SMTP id OAA29298; Thu, 28 Jul 1994 14:43:54
-0700
Message-Id: <199407282143.OAA29298@****.Berkeley.EDU>
To: TSRInc@***.com
cc: postmaster@****.Berkeley.EDU, appel@****.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: TSR Copyrighted Material
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Jul 1994 17:28:59 EDT."
<9407281728.tn308242@***.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 14:43:53 -0700
From: "Shannon D. Appel" <appel@****.Berkeley.EDU>

TSR:

soda.berkeley.edu maintains absolutely *NO* material for D&D, AD&D or
other T$R games at our FTP site. Rather, soda only supports archives
for games with reasonable legal departments, and T$R has not fallen
into that category for over 15 years. To be honest, I would rather
poke my eyes out with a dull stick than do anything at all to provide
any level of support for a product produced by such a capitalistic,
greedy, immoral company as T$R.

In short, you have nothing to worry about from soda. We have never
archived material for T$R products and we never will.

Shannon

------- End of Forwarded Messages
Message no. 2
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: TSR Copyrights (fwd)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 1994 15:00:34 +0100
Love to see how TSR will enforce their decision, law suits in every country
that has a machine with a TSR related material ?

Sucks big time, just hope FASA don't go down the same route.

Btw, I wonder what FASA would make of my GM handbook as it's free and it's
designed as a better replacement for their GM screen with not one bit of
original info on it. Plenty of copied tables and rules though :)

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 3
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: TSR Copyrights (fwd)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 1994 09:28:38 -0500
I think everybody ought to put up some net.books on their FTP sites. I mean,
/everybody/. Just to piss T$R off.
Message no. 4
From: Doctor Doom <jch8169@*******.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: TSR Copyrights (fwd)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 02:56:13 -0500
Von Herrn Steele:

> Btw, I wonder what FASA would make of my GM handbook as it's free and it's
> designed as a better replacement for their GM screen with not one bit of
> original info on it. Plenty of copied tables and rules though :)

I believe you are probably safe so long as you

1. Neither vend nor otherwise receive payment for its distribution.

2. Properly cite FASA as the source of the material contained therein
and not passing it off as your own original work.


Colonel Count von Hohenzollern und von Doom, DMSc, DSc, PhD.

Doom Technologies & Weapon Systems -- Dark Thought Publications
>>> Working on solutions best left in the dark.
<<<
[ Doctor Doom : jch8169@*******.tamu.edu ]
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
"War is merely the continuation of politics with the admixture of other means."
-- Karl von Clauswitz
Message no. 5
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: TSR Copyrights (fwd)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 16:13:20 +0100
> > Btw, I wonder what FASA would make of my GM handbook as it's free and it's
> > designed as a better replacement for their GM screen with not one bit of
> > original info on it. Plenty of copied tables and rules though :)

> I believe you are probably safe so long as you

> 1. Neither vend nor otherwise receive payment for its distribution.

> 2. Properly cite FASA as the source of the material contained therein
> and not passing it off as your own original work.

Hmm that makes me ok on point 1 but on point 2 I think I overlooked the
creditation, but then again I don't think that it actually mentions the game
Shadowrun anywhere in the document. Of course it is nicely tucked away in a
shadowrun archive :)

Oh well, I'll put that on my list of changes for version 2 when I get around to
it.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 6
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: TSR Copyrights (fwd)
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 01:52:17 -0500
> You should also be aware that any items created without a specific
> license are infringements of TSR copyrights. Such items include
> (but are not limited to) any software, net.books, modules, tables,
> stories, or rules

All I have to say on this is that this lowers TSR another pile of
points on my list.

Yes, you're allowed to read the rules. You can even think about
stuff. But write something down? Uh-uh. This is obviously evil.

That quite well could mean that I will never, EVER buy anything from
them again. Sounds good to me. I'm not allowed to play their games...that
is sharing with the general public, after all.

Now, let's just hope that FASA doesn't start doing this, or we're going
to make some new names...

-------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------
"He's NOT a gibbering idiot - he's cured of gibbering, he's just an
idiot now." -- Jane, "Waiting for God"

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about TSR Copyrights, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!