Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Dan Turek)
Subject: Twelve Races
Date: Mon Jan 28 12:10:02 2002
>That has been mentioned somewhere. I think it was the former line-developer
>(Lou
>Pro...?) of Earthdawn, that mentioned that in the 2nd world there was 12
>races.
>8 of these survede the 3rd world's low mana-level and made it to the 4th
>world
>(Human, Elf, Dwarf, Ork, Troll, Windlings, Tskrang and Obsidimen (sp?)).
>Only 5
>of these (initially, Pixies wasn't added until PAoE) survived the 5th world
>and
>made it into the 6th world.
>
>Lars

So what were the 12 races? Why are dragons and shapeshifters not included?
(Okay, in SR shapechangers are animals, but does ED even mention them?) What
is it that makes these races "special" compared to say Sasquatch or Naga?

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject: Twelve Races
Date: Mon Jan 28 12:25:01 2002
On Monday, January 28, 2002, at 06:12 , Dan Turek wrote:

>> That has been mentioned somewhere. I think it was the former
>> line-developer (Lou
>> Pro...?) of Earthdawn, that mentioned that in the 2nd world there was
>> 12 races.
>> 8 of these survede the 3rd world's low mana-level and made it to the
>> 4th world
>> (Human, Elf, Dwarf, Ork, Troll, Windlings, Tskrang and Obsidimen
>> (sp?)). Only 5
>> of these (initially, Pixies wasn't added until PAoE) survived the 5th
>> world and
>> made it into the 6th world.
>>
>> Lars
>
> So what were the 12 races? Why are dragons and shapeshifters not
> included? (Okay, in SR shapechangers are animals, but does ED even
> mention them?) What is it that makes these races "special" compared to
> say Sasquatch or Naga?
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
The eight races from the 4th were all Name-Givers.
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (david lowe-rogstad)
Subject: Twelve Races
Date: Mon Jan 28 13:45:01 2002
At 12:12 PM -0500 1/28/02, Dan Turek wrote:
>>That has been mentioned somewhere. I think it was the former
>>line-developer (Lou
>>Pro...?) of Earthdawn, that mentioned that in the 2nd world there
>>was 12 races.
>>8 of these survede the 3rd world's low mana-level and made it to
>>the 4th world
>>(Human, Elf, Dwarf, Ork, Troll, Windlings, Tskrang and Obsidimen
>>(sp?)). Only 5
>>of these (initially, Pixies wasn't added until PAoE) survived the
>>5th world and
>>made it into the 6th world.
>>
>>Lars
>
>So what were the 12 races? Why are dragons and shapeshifters not
>included? (Okay, in SR shapechangers are animals, but does ED even
>mention them?) What is it that makes these races "special" compared
>to say Sasquatch or Naga?

i don't know about 12 races. in earthdawn there are nine namegiver
races: dwarf, elf, human, obsidiman, ork, t'skrang, troll, winding,
and the original namegivers: the great dragons.

what makes them special is the ability to "name" things. IMO it
implies sentience, but there are other races that approach sentience
(ogres for example) but are not classified as name-givers. it think
the designation is that these other beings use Names, but do not have
the awareness or mindfulness to create Names.

hope this helps.

d.
--
david lowe-rogstad
flash designer + developer
dlowe@****.com
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Dan Turek)
Subject: Twelve Races
Date: Tue Jan 29 13:30:01 2002
> >>That has been mentioned somewhere. I think it was the former
> >>line-developer (Lou
> >>Pro...?) of Earthdawn, that mentioned that in the 2nd world there
> >>was 12 races.
> >>Lars
> >
> >So what were the 12 races? Why are dragons and shapeshifters not
> >included? (Okay, in SR shapechangers are animals, but does ED even
> >mention them?) What is it that makes these races "special" compared
> >to say Sasquatch or Naga?
>
>i don't know about 12 races. in earthdawn there are nine namegiver
>races: dwarf, elf, human, obsidiman, ork, t'skrang, troll, winding,
>and the original namegivers: the great dragons.
>
>what makes them special is the ability to "name" things. IMO it
>implies sentience, but there are other races that approach sentience
>(ogres for example) but are not classified as name-givers. it think
>the designation is that these other beings use Names, but do not have
>the awareness or mindfulness to create Names.

Ok, now a few more questions.

So what does it matter if something is "name-giver" or not? I know only a
little ED, and it deals with things like rituals/magic etc., but I don't see
why a sentient, magically active sasquatch, naga, or merrow is not in the
same "caste" as the major races in SR. So let's try reversing the question
and ask "what makes a race NOT a name-giver?"

Then, what can a name-giver do that others cannot? (yes, they can give
names. What does that really mean?)

<semi-spoiler space for non-Gm types, though I doubt many bother reading
this>











Ok, let's look at the history briefly
World 0: 1 Race? Passion/Horror, whatever. Probably creates dragons.
World 1: No clue
World 2: "Age of Dragons" 12 races
World 3: No clue
World 4: ED 8 races (for PCs at least)
World 5: Modern World
World 6: SR approx. 5 races

What are the extinct races? Who would hunt races to extinction and why?
These are more likely ED questions than SR but I don't feel like being on
more than one list.

The Horrors don't want name-givers extinct - they make the best psychic
food. If you want to starve the Horrors out I guess mass genocide is the
best way to not let them get a foothold, but the background count would
probably cause other problems. SR may not have anything nasty as Horrors,
but the little nasties are still drekky enough.

Of course the mana-level may not be high enough for some (and since it may
take thousands of years for Obsidimen or Windlings; and T'skrang could have
bit it by out of season dragon hunters, I can't say the game suffers without
them) to ever appear in standard SR.

Lastly: why do I care? Because it is a strong hook from the H series, and
since I'm the only one in my group that owns those books I want to milk it
for all its worth.

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (david lowe-rogstad)
Subject: Twelve Races
Date: Tue Jan 29 15:35:01 2002
At 1:33 PM -0500 1/29/02, Dan Turek wrote:
>Ok, now a few more questions.
>
>So what does it matter if something is "name-giver" or not? I know
>only a little ED, and it deals with things like rituals/magic etc.,
>but I don't see why a sentient, magically active sasquatch, naga, or
>merrow is not in the same "caste" as the major races in SR. So let's
>try reversing the question and ask "what makes a race NOT a
>name-giver?"
>
>Then, what can a name-giver do that others cannot? (yes, they can
>give names. What does that really mean?)
>

in my opinion, "name-giver" is just another term for "dragon-spawn".
yes, other races may have the ability to Name and are sentient,
magic-using creatures, but the great dragons have only laid claim to
siring the eight mentioned in earthdawn. perhaps there are other
offspring the dragons aren't telling us about, or perhaps the dragons
can't lay claim to all sentient life in earthdawn. either way, it's
something to think about.




><semi-spoiler space for non-Gm types, though I doubt many bother reading this>

you know, on the last quasi-earthdawn topic to come up, i had several
list members email me directly. perhaps there is more interest than
we think (IMHO it sure beats the heck out of "my ideal of a street
samurai is better than yours-blah-blah-blah")

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Ok, let's look at the history briefly
>World 0: 1 Race? Passion/Horror, whatever. Probably creates dragons.
>World 1: No clue
>World 2: "Age of Dragons" 12 races
>World 3: No clue
>World 4: ED 8 races (for PCs at least)
>World 5: Modern World
>World 6: SR approx. 5 races

i could be wrong, but this is how i think it works out (number-10,
feel free to chime in):

world 0: where it all started.
world 1: down-cycle. the first dragon creates sub-races. eventually
prepares them for mana up-cycle
world 2: age of dragons. the first up-cycle. thanks to major dragon
magic, the horrors are sent packing, maybe some races get wiped out,
either via the conflict or the dragons decide they don't deserve to
last.
world 3: down-cycle. some smart-aleck IEs decide they don't need the
dragons and rebel. a few hibernating dragons are discovered and
killed. figuring that they will need a way to stand up to the dragons
when they come back, some of these IEs set the foundation for thera.
(huh!?!, more on that in a second).

>What are the extinct races? Who would hunt races to extinction and why?
>These are more likely ED questions than SR but I don't feel like
>being on more than one list.

not really. if you are running a crossover campaign (yes, they are
allowed), then why not mine the links for all they're worth?

>The Horrors don't want name-givers extinct - they make the best
>psychic food. If you want to starve the Horrors out I guess mass
>genocide is the best way to not let them get a foothold, but the
>background count would probably cause other problems. SR may not
>have anything nasty as Horrors, but the little nasties are still
>drekky enough.

i agree. in fact i'm working on a true conspiracy oliver stone style
"who's responsible for thera" theory. i'll copy you when i post it to
the earthdawn-gm list. basically, lou prosperi (the former ED line
developer) has hinted that the books of harrow weren't so much
"found" as they were written to be found, perhaps even by the very
same people who found them. i've deleted the email, but to paraphrase
he asked: "think about it, where did thera get the knowledge and
power to challenge the great dragons directly?" hmmm.

>Of course the mana-level may not be high enough for some (and since
>it may take thousands of years for Obsidimen or Windlings; and
>T'skrang could have bit it by out of season dragon hunters, I can't
>say the game suffers without them) to ever appear in standard SR.
>
>Lastly: why do I care? Because it is a strong hook from the H
>series, and since I'm the only one in my group that owns those books
>I want to milk it for all its worth.

"harlequin's back" definitely hits on the horror mark (ooh, a pun).
we run (when we can) a pretty dense earthdawn/shadowrun crossover
game with plenty of cthulhu mixed in, so i'm all for mixing in some
high-level magical bad guys.
("oh, don't shoot him. that just makes him mad").

take care,

d.
--
david lowe-rogstad
flash designer + developer
dlowe@****.com
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Twelve Races
Date: Wed Jan 30 05:55:01 2002
According to Dan Turek, on Tue, 29 Jan 2002 the word on the street was...

> Then, what can a name-giver do that others cannot? (yes, they can give
> names. What does that really mean?)

Names are very important in ED, because if you know something's name (or
Name, as it's usually spelled in that game) you can affect it with magic
more easily. So the ability to _give_ names to stuff means you can _make_
things more easily-affected by (your) magic.

Of note here is also that you won't change your character's name easily in
ED, because doing that typically means losing all your abilities -- they're
tied to your Name, so if that is gone, so are the abilities.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
That's the way that I can't win.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Twelve Races, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!