| From: | Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Two hand fighting, etc |
| Date: | Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:30:32 -0500 |
>
> Waffle wrote:
> > > I've considered averaging reach, round down, add one, and assume
> > > unarmed (one handed) combat has a -1 reach. So if a samurai installed
> > > two spurs (one on each hand) he would get 1 reach, or a two - knife
> > > fighter would get 1 reach. Average and round down damage.
>
> > Also, you din't mention dice to roll- 2 hand normally allows more dice
(and uses less pool)- allowing beter reach as well makes it WAY to good.
>
> I didn't mention'em because there wasn't any difference from normal
> rules. Just your ordinary attack test as if attacking with the
> 'main' weapon only, with no modifiers to the dice rolled from using
> two weapons. Reach is enough of an advantage.
>
AH. That sounds OK. What is the two handed style skill used for-
anything? Or did you just eliminate it, and allow use of the "main"
weapon skill alone, with the reach bonusfor having another weapon?
> > (snip separate attack with each weapon).
>
> > I believe this somewhat reflects the realities of "Florentine"
> > fighting, but I could be wrong. It definately solves some of the
> > problems of normal 2 hand style (as each wepon does seprate damage, and
> > roll with itsown reach), and doesn't seem to create any new ones.
>
> Well, aye and nay. It looks workable, but it lacks simplicity. It
> makes for a lot of dice rolling, and if both uses it, the fight will
> be very, very long. (Unless there's some special rules about that.
> Rolling twice the dice in defence is bad, and if both do so....
> ick.). About mixed weapons... mixing a taser and killing weapon shows
> a rather confused intent. ;)
Well, my major two hand "experience" comes from escrima, where the two
weapons are used for doing losts of attacks or blocking both an
opponents hands. Stick and knife is a common escrima varient.
Anyhow, Its not many more dice- its the same dice as for normal two hand
style, but with split offenses that average slightly fwer succeses,and a
defense that allows more combat pool for pure defense, but fewer dice
for succesful counters. I like it because there isn't a sudden dice
advantage to buying the skill at one, except that from a purely
defensive (not counter attack) standpoint you don't need as much combat
pool.
Rolling twice for somebody using two hand style just makes sense, to me.
>
> I'd prefer a system that played around with reach or the number of
> dice rolled or similar, without adding much complexity. Things like
> reducing multiple opponents by one, halving follow-up attack penalty,
> increasing reach, reducing opponent's reach advantage, that sort of
> thing... something that makes it an interesting option but not the
> ultimate fighting style, and at the same time is quick & easy.
>
> (Tall order, I know.).
Giving superior postion but only allowing cobat pool equal to the two
hand skill might work.
I wrote a system for ALL melee that did everything you mention above
(and then some) without actually changing any SR melee "basics". Each
"combat option" requires having a skill, the skills limit combat pool
use, and basic melee skill limits total options usable. It was gonna be
published in Shadowland #8, but I don't know whats up with them now.
If Mr. Hussey tells me I own it again, I'll post it or something. Send
your e-mail adress (list-digest does not include it) and I'll send it to
you individually as soon as I know I'm not violating a contract.
>
> I started thinking about it when I read Sin City - The Big Fat Kill.
> I was thinking about introducing someone like Miho, when I noticed
> the two weapon style is far too effective. Perhaps using the FoF
> rules isn't that bad, but then it needs a little trimming. What
> disadvantages should there be with two weapon fighting, if used like
> in FoF? Neither am I adverse to realism - if it *is* that effective
> using two weapons, who am I to argue? It takes a lot of skill points,
> after all.
>
Well, the bad thing about the FOF rules is, for certain combos, its like
getting all your comabt pool dice for free (skill+skill) just having the
style at level 1, plus being able to add style level worth of combat
pool. Most weapon combo's reduce reach to zero, which partially off
sets this, but it still seems bad.
You could do things as FOF (or per any other suggestion), but restrict
dice for each weapon to the lowest of weapon skill OR two weapon style
skill, which means you'd need more skill points / karma to really raise
your dice (its currently common to keep style skill low and raise the
weapon skill used very high, and just depend on weapon skill dice,
saving combat pool).
This way, somebody with "knife" 6 would need "two knife style" at 4
before they got any benefit. At that level, the dice would be 4+4(+4
combat pool) max- the same number as thier normal attack with 6+6 pool,
but using fewer combat pool dice. Only when both skills were at 6 would
he get 6 dice for each knife (plus, then, up to 6 from combat pool).
Raisng two hand skill to 7 would only allow 7 comabt pool dice, not
affect dice for each weapon.
This might seem to "penalize" high skill persons learning two weapon
styles, but they can still attack using just one weapon, and will be
much better, eventually. It also pays of fairly quickly if they style
skill is considered a specialzed skill for karma cost.
Also, it might be reasonable to reduce each wepons power by one, as you
don't have your full body weight behind it as much as when only using
one weapon.
-Mongoose
