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Message no. 1
From: Alberto P fox_mulder_76@*****.it
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:46:02 +0200 (CEST)
Hi to all ...

As I've said in my first message, this week I'm going to start my first
SR campaign : it will be set in San Francisco (the only american city
that I've seen ... so far), and I think that I'm gonna running it with
a poor level of magic (no dragons, nor magical items ... just some
street shamans & physical adepts ...). My problem is that I've only two
players (sigh ...) and I'm trying to build a balanced party. One of the
players wants to be a street sam, while the other player has asked my
opinion.

The question is : what kind of archetype are the most useful in a
two-players group ? I think decker/sammy ... but in that case, the
fights with 4/5 NPC aren't too hard to win ? Maybe I must throw in only
2/3 street punk as opponents ?

I'm sorry if it is a trivial question, but it is quite important to a
starting GM. If you want, answer directly to me ...

==--------------------------------------
Fox "Spooky" Mulder (Aka Alberto P.)

Everything you know can be a lie ...
--------------------------------------
______________________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @*****.it su http://mail.yahoo.it
Message no. 2
From: DV8 gyro@********.co.za
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:34:37 +0200
-----Original Message-----
From: Alberto P <fox_mulder_76@*****.it>
To: Mailing List Shadowrun <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: 28 June 1999 11:50
Subject: Two-Players Group ?


>Hi to all ...
>
>As I've said in my first message, this week I'm going to start my
first
>SR campaign : it will be set in San Francisco (the only american city
>that I've seen ... so far), and I think that I'm gonna running it
with
>a poor level of magic (no dragons, nor magical items ... just some
>street shamans & physical adepts ...). My problem is that I've only
two
>players (sigh ...) and I'm trying to build a balanced party. One of
the
>players wants to be a street sam, while the other player has asked my
>opinion.
>
>The question is : what kind of archetype are the most useful in a
>two-players group ? I think decker/sammy ... but in that case, the
>fights with 4/5 NPC aren't too hard to win ? Maybe I must throw in
only
>2/3 street punk as opponents ?
>
>I'm sorry if it is a trivial question, but it is quite important to a
>starting GM. If you want, answer directly to me ...

I've Gm'd a couple of games for small groups.

To keep the party alive and interested, you simply have to tailor your
campaign to the characters capabilities, as with any normal game. You
may find that some of the skill areas that are normally covered by a
large group are not by your small group. Thats Ok, use NPC deckers
(saves time too) or Shaman/Mages to get astral recon info for the team
etc...

There are ways and means... also , you can expect a higher level of
roleplaying from your small group and can devote more time to each
player... enjoy!

- - BRUCE <gyro@********.co.za>

<hard@****>
Message no. 3
From: Meowmix chrisjohn@**********.com
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:18:34 -0400
>
> The question is : what kind of archetype are the most useful in a
> two-players group ? I think decker/sammy ... but in that case, the
> fights with 4/5 NPC aren't too hard to win ? Maybe I must throw in only
> 2/3 street punk as opponents ?

Alright, in my two games with 3 players or less, I found that it worked best
to have the players as partners of sorts. To form a shadowrunning group with
two guys who barely know each other is suicide, but to form one with two guys
that've been friends for most of their lives...well, that's easier.

There's two ways to do this. You can go for the "opposite" route, in that one
is a cybered street sam and the other is a street shaman/mage. This gives a
lot of opportunity for RPing.

The other way is that you can make the group very similar to each other. There
could be a street sam and a combat rigger, or a street sam and a combat decker.

It's always a good idea to keep an NPC or two in case of a need for magic support
or quick transport, but keep in mind that your characters can't be specialized if they
expect to survive 2-man shadowruns. Make one guy a decker/rigger/fighter by giving
him lower attributes if need be.

Meowmix
"When life gives you a blend of chicken, liver, and
spices, make meat flavored kitty treats."
Message no. 4
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:43:40 +0200
According to Alberto P, at 11:46 on 28 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> this week I'm going to start my first SR campaign : it will be set in
> San Francisco (the only american city that I've seen ... so far),

Be sure to read the California Free State sourcebook before setting a
campaign in SF, as it's not quite the same city you've been to.

> My problem is that I've only two players (sigh ...)

I know your problem. For years I had a "group" that consisted of me and
one other person :(

> The question is : what kind of archetype are the most useful in a
> two-players group ? I think decker/sammy ... but in that case, the
> fights with 4/5 NPC aren't too hard to win ? Maybe I must throw in only
> 2/3 street punk as opponents ?

For a balanced party, I think you should use two types of characters who
complement each other without having too much overlap. Both should be able
to handle firefights to a degree, IMHO, but as you already have a sam, the
other character only, at most, needs to be competent rather than good in
combat. A decker could be a good choice, as it gives them a way to gather
information, or a magician (an aspected magician might be best, if you
want to keep the magic level down and/or have players who are
inexperienced with SR's magic system).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
E-mails uit het verleden bieden geen garantie voor de toekomst.
-> ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:20:19 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Alberto P <fox_mulder_76@*****.it>
To: Mailing List Shadowrun <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 4:46 AM
Subject: Two-Players Group ?


> Hi to all ...
>
> As I've said in my first message, this week I'm going to start my first
> SR campaign : it will be set in San Francisco (the only american city
> that I've seen ... so far), and I think that I'm gonna running it with
> a poor level of magic (no dragons, nor magical items ... just some
> street shamans & physical adepts ...). My problem is that I've only two
> players (sigh ...) and I'm trying to build a balanced party. One of the
> players wants to be a street sam, while the other player has asked my
> opinion.
>
> The question is : what kind of archetype are the most useful in a
> two-players group ? I think decker/sammy ... but in that case, the
> fights with 4/5 NPC aren't too hard to win ? Maybe I must throw in only
> 2/3 street punk as opponents ?
>
> I'm sorry if it is a trivial question, but it is quite important to a
> starting GM. If you want, answer directly to me ...
>

Hi,
First off, IMO this is not a trivial question (of course I am from the
"There are no stupid questions camp). My current party has only two
players, so I might be able to help you. Any two characters are useful. It
all depends on the runs you set up. I agree that having the characters know
each other is much easier than having them be strangers, but either can
work. When I set up my adventures, I try to think in the manner of a fixer
or Johnson. What type of jobs would these characters be good at? If it is
two sams, you have a great diversity (everyone needs a hired gun from time
to time). A Sam and a Spell Slinger gives you great diversity as well. Sam
and Decker. Do data steals. The stuff is on a computer that is not
connected to the matrix (could be an R&D computer, or perhaps a corp execs
home machine). Sam and Rigger. Kidnapping. As long as you keep the
adventures different, using the same basic plot takes a while (if it ever)
gets old. Give their characters a rep on the street that they are good at
something, and that's what they get hired for (no different than an actor
who gets typecasted (ie John Wayne)).
Message no. 6
From: Michael Berman jberman@*****.com
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:34:37 -0400
>hello i wanted to introduce my self:

>i'm Martijn "Chipeoi" Weezepoel

>i'v been playing around 5 years rpg's now mosly ad&d but the last 2 years
shadowrun.

>my gamemaster is gurth and he sayed i shoud try this list (that and i
wanted the cool t-shirt)

>i'v been reading as mutch asposibel from the list but i don't alwas find
the time (last time i had 323 mail waiting)

>thats it just wanned to say hye

>hye um........ ok


>peopel say that chipeloi was crasy just wait til the see me.

I hate to have to say sopmething like this but well damnit...
LEARN TO SPELL!
if english isnt your original language and your having trouble get gurth to
help...


*pent up anger has been released thank you for using Anger-Away*

sincerely (without any malice)

Ansarok "The Elf of tommorrow born yesterday"
Message no. 7
From: Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:28:55 -0400 (EDT)
Alberto P <fox_mulder_76@*****.it> writes:
> As I've said in my first message, this week I'm going to start my first
> SR campaign : it will be set in San Francisco

Keep in mind that you probably won't be running in canon SF,
unless you buy the CalFree sourcebook. (SF does not resemble what you
saw in the slightest, I suspect.) This only makes a difference if
official background is important to you or your players.

> The question is : what kind of archetype are the most useful in a
> two-players group ?

If you weren't running a low-magic campaign, having anti-magic
capability is crucial, which has to be filled in by a shaman/mage.

Apart from that, your player should play a useful character of
the type he feels like playing the most. Any two people won't provide
a complete set of skills, but this isn't necessary. Just keep an eye
on what gaps the characters have, and make sure not to pick on them
too much, unless they're given opportunity to fill the gaps (training
to fill other roles, etc.)

> I think decker/sammy

depending on how you run things, a decker may hog the GM's
time. Keep an eye out so the other player doesn't get bored if you do
this.

> I'm sorry if it is a trivial question, but it is quite important to a
> starting GM. If you want, answer directly to me ...

It's not trivial, though the answer might be. Just like any
party, it works best if the opponents are tailored to fight the party.
(tailored to pose the right amount of threat, not designed to take
them out) If you can do this, it doesn't matter too much what is in
the party. Just try not to send too much magic at them without giving
them a friendly mage, etc.

Wolf + Raven has short stories involving a pair of street sams
named Stone Jackson, and umm, uhh... hmm. well, it's not important.
If you can find the book, it can give you ideas of what 2 sammies can
be hired to do. (bodyguard a mage, decker, etc., do a standard
extraction of people/equipment... However, some of these things have
them end up as part of a runner team, not a 2-man team.)

Mark
Message no. 8
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:21:08 -0700 (PDT)
<Snippola(TM)>
> Wolf + Raven has short stories involving a pair of street sams named
Stone Jackson, and umm, uhh... hmm. well, it's not important. If you
can find the book, it can give you ideas of what 2 sammies can be hired
to do. (bodyguard a mage, decker, etc., do a standard extraction of
people/equipment... However, some of these things have them end up as
part of a runner team, not a 2-man team.)
>
> Mark

Okay, the two guys are Tiger Jackson and Iron Mike Morrissey - also
known as Zig and Zag to one Wolfgang Kies (the main character of Wolf
and Raven). Mark's directed you to the wrong book, though. In Wolf and
Raven, those two sams are always providing muscle backup to Raven's
team. There is a short story (the second last) in the book "Into the
Shadows" (old, not easy to get, possibly OOP) which focuses on the two
sams, however. That's the kind of thing a two-man-sam (jeez, I just had
a mental flash on a bird with a big beak eating Fruit Loops) team can
do.

Personally, my leanings would be towards a full shaman or mage and a
sam/adept or covert ops specialist with combat skills. That covers a
fairly good gamut of skills. The thing you really need to do, unless
you want to restrict the team to certain adventures, is to provide
access to NPCs who can fill gaps. A decker, a rigger etc. One idea
would be to require the players to take as contacts (or, even better,
buddies - sorry level one or level two contacts) any character they
want to be able to draw on regularly.

For instance, I ALWAYS have at least one person on my teams have a
decker contact, as I ALWAYS make decking an NPC job. That may change in
future, but right now I'm not up to speed on the decking rules enough
to run a PC decker - plus I think they waste everyone else's time,
ESPECIALLY if the GM has to keep looking up rules in books. Only in one
game (a PBeM) do I have a PC decker (I actually have two, but anyway)
and that's been going since before I drew up my 'decker policy'. :)

Oddly enough, I kinda like playing combat deckers - but I don't have to
know the rules so well myself for them. :)

Anyway...

*Doc' blithers on as per usual. You'd think he was a politician...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 9
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:33:33 EDT
In a message dated 6/28/99 6:22:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
docwagon101@*****.com writes:

> Only in one
> game (a PBeM) do I have a PC decker (I actually have two, but anyway)
> and that's been going since before I drew up my 'decker policy'. :)

Oh? who's the other? If its the game I'm thinking of, we have two riggers
and one Decker/Shaman. Of course, one of the riggers does have a pretty
decent computer skill, but he doesnt have the actual datajack and deck that
make him a true Decker/Rigger.
Message no. 10
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:48:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > Only in one game (a PBeM) do I have a PC decker (I actually have
two, but anyway) and that's been going since before I drew up my
'decker policy'. :)
>
> Oh? who's the other? If its the game I'm thinking of, we have two
riggers and one Decker/Shaman. Of course, one of the riggers does have
a pretty decent computer skill, but he doesnt have the actual datajack
and deck that make him a true Decker/Rigger.

Mike, I'm talking games that I run, not ones that I'm in. :) Obviously,
I don't control who plays what in other games...well, except if you
count my powerful mental influence over everyone I come in contact
with.

*Fetchit Boy orders you all to pay him lots of money...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 11
From: Bull bull@*******.net
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 05:16:08 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:46 AM 6/28/99 +0200, Alberto P wrote these timeless words:

[KERRRRR-SNIP!]

Well, as some of these guys could tell you, that's how Bull the Ork Decker
got started, and really stayed throughtout the end.

We strated off our game with myself, my friend Rusty, and Tinner as a GM.
And I haven't played a campaign yet that's been able to match that one.
With a smaller group, there's less pressure to keep juggling "activities"
for everyone to participate, and it makes it really easy to focus ona
single character.

I was an Ork Decker. A daunting start, to say the least, especially when I
knew ZILCH about playing Shadowrun. We were both raw recruits at the time,
so this was very much an interesting start, Rusty played an Amerind
Shaman. Tinner subscribes heavily to the "You don't pick your totem, it
picks you" theory, so we kept hima generic Shaman for a couple game
sessions till Tinner saw how he was being played, then picked a Shaman to
fit. This was amusing, because at first it was hinted Lion, then he was
told it was Cat. two game sessions later, it turns out Coyote was playinga
trick on his new Shaman, and hes really not a cat shaman, but a Coyote
Shaman. :]

In the beginning, we weren't a real combat oriented team. Playing an ork
Decker presented a few challenges for me, and to say the least, my points
in everything were pretty low. Rusty (Johnny 99) put most of his points
into sorcery... He had a gun, but I don;t think he ever fired it.

Anyways, eventually we spread out to other skills. Bull became a decent
Rigger and a kick ass fighter, as well as one of the best Deckers you'll
ever find. Johnny became a top notch Shaman, and could put most
experienced Phys Ads to shame. So between the two of us, we had everything
covered :] And with only two of us, it was easy enough to let me deck
occasionally and let Rusty go on Astral Quests and stuff... Plus, LOTS of
Roleplay... We went entire game sessions without needing dice, cause all
we were doing was hanging out in bars, dealing with our lives.

Have fun with it, but keep in mind your characters, while focused in the
beginning, won't be able to stay that way if they want to survive.
Adaptability :]

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
bull@*******.net ===== bull22@***********.com
http://shadowrun.html.com/users/bull
ICQ: 35931890
====================================================== =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? = =
======================================================
"Animals have 2 jobs: To taste good and to fit well."
-- Greg Proops, "Vs."
Message no. 12
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:59:52 +0200
According to Michael Berman, at 16:34 on 28 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> I hate to have to say sopmething like this but well damnit...
> LEARN TO SPELL!
> if english isnt your original language and your having trouble get gurth to
> help...

Trust me, that won't help... Not in this case, anyway.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
E-mails uit het verleden bieden geen garantie voor de toekomst.
-> ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 13
From: James Dening james@************.force9.co.uk
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:56:38 +0100
>I hate to have to say sopmething like this but well damnit...
>LEARN TO SPELL!
>if english isnt your original language and your having trouble get gurth to
>help...
>Ansarok "The Elf of tommorrow born yesterday"

Well, let me see.....ummmm.....

OK, I've got four spelling mistakes, two missed apostrophes, and three minor
grammatical errors, not to mention crap formatting. And that's all in
two sentences and a signoff. Nicely put.

What's that word, you know, the one that goes 'H','y','p','o','c','r','i'...?

Having said that, isn't it nice to read well-punctuated, well-spelt posts?
This list is heaven, compared to the m/cycle lists I'm on...;-)))

Anyway, back to Srn...

Quick firearms question - can you combine a smartlink with a laser
sight? Doesn't say you can't, just seems too easy to me...also you'd
have 2 things showing you where the gun was pointing - a laser dot,
and a cross in your field of vision - wouldn't one be redundant?

James.
Message no. 14
From: David Hinkley dhinkley@***.org
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:55:27 -0700
Date sent: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:46:02 +0200 (CEST)
From: Alberto P <fox_mulder_76@*****.it>
Subject: Two-Players Group ?
To: Mailing List Shadowrun <shadowrn@*********.org>
Send reply to: shadowrn@*********.org

> Hi to all ...
>
> As I've said in my first message, this week I'm going to start my first
> SR campaign : it will be set in San Francisco (the only american city
> that I've seen ... so far), and I think that I'm gonna running it with
> a poor level of magic (no dragons, nor magical items ... just some
> street shamans & physical adepts ...). My problem is that I've only two
> players (sigh ...) and I'm trying to build a balanced party. One of the
> players wants to be a street sam, while the other player has asked my
> opinion.
>
> The question is : what kind of archetype are the most useful in a
> two-players group ? I think decker/sammy ... but in that case, the
> fights with 4/5 NPC aren't too hard to win ? Maybe I must throw in only
> 2/3 street punk as opponents ?
>
> I'm sorry if it is a trivial question, but it is quite important to a
> starting GM. If you want, answer directly to me ...

There is one other way to handle two-player games. Each player
generates 2 PCs. The key to using this method successfully is to make sure
that you end up with two sub-teams with a character from each player on
each team. If you are really lucky a different player will be the primary on
each sub-team. This method makes it easier for the team to have all the skills
they need for a sucessfull run.

As the players, GM and the PCs get more experenced, or more players
join the game one set of PCs either becomes secondary characters/NPCs or
back-ups for when the other character has extended hospitalization or has to
disapear from the scene for a while.

There is a couple of down sides. Group mind, two PCs that know
everything the other does. And increased difficulty in roll playing, partiularly
in keeping characters seperate.

But it can make for fun gaming where otherwise there would be none.


Other thought, a two man second story/cat burgler team that specializes
in high risk break-ins. A rigger/sam and a decker/sam.







David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org

===================================================Those who are too intelligent to engage
in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato

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