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Message no. 1
From: "Colin R. Heichman" <heichman@**.EDU>
Subject: Two questions...
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 00:03:17 -0500
I need some advice on two rulings.
First, one of my players wants to have a physical adept with boosted
reflexes and also wants to take increased reflexes as one of his adept
powers. This would give him 4d6 + 8 for initative. I looked everywhere I
could for something about this in the rules, but I couldn't find a thing.
I'm inclined to give it to him because boosted is a treatment of the body's
nervous system & not a piece of cyber. Opinions?
Second, another of my players just wants to have a cyberleg from the
knee down. He reasons that a full cyberleg is attached at the hip and that
because he only wants a fractional cyberleg he should only pay half of the
essence. Any ideas?
I'm sorry if there's already been a discussion about this. If there
has been, just send replies to my private e-mail address (heichman@**.edu)
as I don't want to clutter the list.

Thanks,

Colin
heichman@**.edu
Message no. 2
From: Hal Mangold <hmangold@*******.AC.RUNET.EDU>
Subject: Two questions... (fwd)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 10:34:22 EST
> I need some advice on two rulings.
> First, one of my players wants to have a physical adept with boosted
> reflexes and also wants to take increased reflexes as one of his adept
> powers. This would give him 4d6 + 8 for initative. I looked everywhere I
> could for something about this in the rules, but I couldn't find a thing.
> I'm inclined to give it to him because boosted is a treatment of the body's
> nervous system & not a piece of cyber. Opinions?

Hmmm. While there may not be a specific ruling aagainst doing
this, it is, IMHO, what is known as a *rules screw*. I would disallow this
mainly on the premise of preserving game balance. Trust me, you do *not*
want someone with 4d6+8 running around your game world.

> Second, another of my players just wants to have a cyberleg from the
> knee down. He reasons that a full cyberleg is attached at the hip and that
> because he only wants a fractional cyberleg he should only pay half of the
> essence. Any ideas?

This seems reasonable to me.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hal Mangold >> hmangold@*******.ac.runet.edu >>"Patience is like
bread
Savage Henry >> Radford University,Radford Va.>> they say,I ran out of
SvgeHenry@***.com >> Apathy capitol of the USA >> that yesterday....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Geek code under construction.
Message no. 3
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two questions...
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 10:49:50 -0500
>>>>> "CRH" == Colin R Heichman <heichman@**.edu> writes:

CRH> First, one of my players wants to have a physical adept with
CRH> boosted reflexes and also wants to take increased reflexes as one of
CRH> his adept powers.

Different forms of Increase Reflexes are not compatable with each other;
you use whichever gives the best result, but they do not combine.

CRH> This would give him 4d6 + 8 for initative.

No, it doesn't.

CRH> I looked everywhere I could for something about this in the rules, but
CRH> I couldn't find a thing.

According to the DLoH, bonuses are not cumulative. Also see the Street
Samurai Catalog for Boosted Reflexes (not compatable with other boosts) and
Shadowtech's almost equivalent (again, not compatable with other boosts).


CRH> Second, another of my players just wants to have a cyberleg
CRH> from the knee down. He reasons that a full cyberleg is attached at
CRH> the hip and that because he only wants a fractional cyberleg he should
CRH> only pay half of the essence. Any ideas?

Nope. The Essence cost isn't because you're replacing meat with metal, its
because you're wiring metal into your nervous system. If it were, then
you'd loose Essence for a peg-leg or claw-hand. Even though it's only part
of a leg and not the whole thing, he still needs the same kind of wiring to
make it work, so it costs the same Essence.

|||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ||||
| Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> WWW Page: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox |
| GAT d--@ -p+ c++ !l u+ e+(*) m-(+) s n---(+) h-- f !g(+) w+ t- r+ y+ |
| One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball. --Geddy Lee |
|||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ||||
Message no. 4
From: Micah Levy <M.Levy@**.UCL.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Two questions...
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 16:02:55 +0000
>
> CRH> Second, another of my players just wants to have a cyberleg
> CRH> from the knee down. He reasons that a full cyberleg is attached at
> CRH> the hip and that because he only wants a fractional cyberleg he should
> CRH> only pay half of the essence. Any ideas?
>
> Nope. The Essence cost isn't because you're replacing meat with metal, its
> because you're wiring metal into your nervous system. If it were, then
> you'd loose Essence for a peg-leg or claw-hand. Even though it's only part
> of a leg and not the whole thing, he still needs the same kind of wiring to
> make it work, so it costs the same Essence.

SSR.

I don't think that is correct since if it is only invasion of the nervous
centers that causes essence loss, then the fingertip compartment should be
essence-free.
Perhaps it is a combination of the two.

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|| ||
|| Micah Levy ||
|| Department of Computer Science ||
|| University College London ||
|| ||
|| GCS d--@ -p+ c++ l(!) u++ e+ m- s n+ h* f g+(-) w t+ r++ y? ||
|| ||
|| ||
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Message no. 5
From: Dave Sherohman <esper@*****.IMA.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two questions...
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 10:45:29 CST
From: "Colin R. Heichman" <heichman%VT.EDU@*****.KSU.EDU>
Subject: Two questions...
> First, one of my players wants to have a physical adept with boosted
>reflexes and also wants to take increased reflexes as one of his adept
>powers. This would give him 4d6 + 8 for initative. I looked everywhere I
>could for something about this in the rules, but I couldn't find a thing.
>I'm inclined to give it to him because boosted is a treatment of the body's
>nervous system & not a piece of cyber. Opinions?

Generally speaking, reflex/reaction enhancements aren't cumulative - sure, the
PhysAd can have both, but he'll only get the bonuses for the more effective
one. And he'll lose Magic due to Boosted's Essence cost, to boot...

> Second, another of my players just wants to have a cyberleg from the
>knee down. He reasons that a full cyberleg is attached at the hip and that
>because he only wants a fractional cyberleg he should only pay half of the
>essence. Any ideas?

Sure, why not? (Why?)

esper@***.umn.edu
Message no. 6
From: steven mancini <mancinis@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two questions...
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 21:33:55 EST
In response to Colin R. Heichman:
]
] First, one of my players wants to have a physical adept with boosted
] reflexes and also wants to take increased reflexes as one of his adept
] powers. This would give him 4d6 + 8 for initative. I looked everywhere I
] could for something about this in the rules, but I couldn't find a thing.
] I'm inclined to give it to him because boosted is a treatment of the body's
] nervous system & not a piece of cyber. Opinions?

In a previous barrage of questions to TOm Dowd we asked him about
this and his ruling was that they would not combine and that the
best overall enhancement would be applied.

] Second, another of my players just wants to have a cyberleg from the
] knee down. He reasons that a full cyberleg is attached at the hip and that
] because he only wants a fractional cyberleg he should only pay half of the
] essence. Any ideas?

Make it .75- the limb may only extend to the knee but the evasive
surgery has to connect it, etc. I have a player who only wanted
his hands fucked with, so I tink I charged him .4 (Its been a long
time since the ruling)

] I'm sorry if there's already been a discussion about this. If there
] has been, just send replies to my private e-mail address (heichman@**.edu)
] as I don't want to clutter the list.

Never be sorry, anyone who would expect that all people on this
list have been here since the start and would subsequently not
expect some repetition should have his head examined. However,
our List Manager and his supercomputer has now registered in
his infinite memory source that you have asked this question; should
you do so again he will deploy his elite team of Gummy Bear
Assassins to your home where they will flog you with a wet
carp.


Da Minotaur

+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Steve Mancini | mancinis@******.cc.purdue.edu |
| Department of Political Science | phi@****.cc.purdue.edu |
]#######################################################################[
| The most merciful thing in the world... |
| is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. |
| - H. P. Lovecraft |
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
Message no. 7
From: Timothy Dann <C598706@*******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Two questions...
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 15:31:21 CST
> First, one of my players wants to have a physical adept with boosted
>reflexes and also wants to take increased reflexes as one of his adept
>powers. This would give him 4d6 + 8 for initative. I looked everywhere I
>could for something about this in the rules, but I couldn't find a thing.
>I'm inclined to give it to him because boosted is a treatment of the body's
>nervous system & not a piece of cyber. Opinions?

I don't like this, because the boosted reflexes and the magic are inherently
at opposite ends of the spectrum: the phys ad powers rely on the body being
pure and natural, as that is the source of magic (in a manner of speaking, at
least), while the boosted reflexes rely on introducing chemicals that juice
up the body, making it run at redline much the way nitrous dioxide does in an
engine (runs REALLY fast, but burns up your engine quickly)--effectively,
boosted reflexes act as poison to the body...that's the idea of essence loss.

> Second, another of my players just wants to have a cyberleg from the
>knee down. He reasons that a full cyberleg is attached at the hip and that
>because he only wants a fractional cyberleg he should only pay half of the
>essence. Any ideas?

This one sounds okay, in a limited sense. Since a lot of the intrusiveness
of cyberware is due to the wiring and such that supports it, and these parts
will be needed whether you lose a foot or a leg, the essence "gain" by getting
a lesser leg would be small. I don't have my book, but a leg costs 1.0, I
think. For the knee-down job, maybe make it cost .85 essence or something.
Flames?

Tim Dann aka Midnight Sting
Message no. 8
From: G'Koth of the Narn Regime <esj@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Two Questions
Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 12:45:47 -0700
Got two questions (gee, been a while since I've done this) for all y'all.

1) Could a PC, with the _right_ contacts, join the druids, without being
a druid? I'm reffering to the Welsh druids in particular, and the PC in
question is a hermetic with close ties to Meradoc Griffin, the Welsh
Grand Druid, and Rhonabwy, the Welsh Dragon. He knows the right people,
has the right bloodlines, and has the inherent talent. But do you think
the Druids would let him in at all, even on a limited basis?

2) On a related note, how far can you go with Masking? What I'm
thinking of is making a hermetic look shamanic. Perhaps the masking
wouldn't hide the fact he is initiated, but would make him look shamanic
instead...I'm not really sure. I don't think this can be done, but I
wanted to see what the consensus was.

Thanks in advance.

Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler
list.member.grumpy
Message no. 9
From: Kay and Pete Hanson <kidkaos@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 08:53:02 -0500
Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler said:
>1) Could a PC, with the _right_ contacts, join the druids, without being
>a druid? I'm reffering to the Welsh druids in particular, and the PC in
>question is a hermetic with close ties to Meradoc Griffin, the Welsh
>Grand Druid, and Rhonabwy, the Welsh Dragon. He knows the right people,
>has the right bloodlines, and has the inherent talent. But do you think
>the Druids would let him in at all, even on a limited basis?
>
What you are talking about is the difference between philosophy and a
religion. Druids, especially the Welsh order (as I remeber) are a
magical/religious order. Hermetic magic is NOT the same thing. I think you
would be closer if you were a shaman. They would allow him to hang around,
and be friendly but I doubt there would be any real reason to except him
because of the following:
1. They couldn't teach him magic
2. He couldn't take part in rituals
3. He couldn't take place in initiations

In my campaign, they would be more than happy to chat, discuss
philosophy/world view, invite him to settle in the area, even aid in some
magical research, finding materials, etc. He would be a wonderful asset for
them to have as a friend. He would provide them with wonderful contacts,
sources for new materials, a runner, and someone to discuss new ideas with.
and remember, "real Druids do it in the woods"
and.....How nay druids does it take to change a light buld?
What light bulb, this is the woods....
or Real druids are not afraid of the dark.
Kay
Message no. 10
From: G'Koth of the Narn Regime <esj@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 22:53:07 -0700
On Fri, 5 May 1995, Kay and Pete Hanson wrote:

> What you are talking about is the difference between philosophy and a
> religion. Druids, especially the Welsh order (as I remeber) are a
> magical/religious order. Hermetic magic is NOT the same thing. I think you
> would be closer if you were a shaman. They would allow him to hang around,
> and be friendly but I doubt there would be any real reason to except him
> because of the following:
> 1. They couldn't teach him magic
> 2. He couldn't take part in rituals
> 3. He couldn't take place in initiations
>
Actually, I didn't have in mind him actually joining the druidic magical
group. I kinda figured that would be out (besides, he's still a member
of another group).

What I really want to know is, would they let him join the Welsh druidic
movement? Let him study in Beaumaris Castle for a few months to learn
even more about Wales, Welsh history, and druidic magic (even if he can't
use it), then spend the next several months in the service of the Welsh
Grand Druid, as a sort of "personal assistant." I actually _want_ the
character (since I'll be totally out of the loop for an unknown period of
time) to _serve_ Meradoc Griffin and Rhonabwy. A sort of willing,
voluntary apprentice-ship.

This does differ from merely "hanging around," but isn't actually
becoming a druid. A sort of middle ground.

Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler
list.member.grumpy
Message no. 11
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 08:59:55 BST
Our resident list.grumpy member asked:

> 1) Could a PC, with the _right_ contacts, join the druids, without being
> a druid? I'm reffering to the Welsh druids in particular, and the PC in
> question is a hermetic with close ties to Meradoc Griffin, the Welsh
> Grand Druid, and Rhonabwy, the Welsh Dragon. He knows the right people,
> has the right bloodlines, and has the inherent talent. But do you think
> the Druids would let him in at all, even on a limited basis?

You could join them (probably), in the same way you might join a secret
but you don't get the powers or any of the associated stuff, and you
wouldn't be able to take part in the rituals. I would think that the
Welsh druids in particular would be pretty careful about who they let in
on 'sacred' rituals.

English druids on the other hand, more of a name than a magical outlook ;-),
I figure they'd let anyone in if he had enough money, or was from the right
family ;-)

Further to Kay's response, they can teach him magic (I believe you can
teach another tradition, at the very least you can help him translate the
spell desgin), they can initiate; initiate groups aren't limited to one
tradition, and I don't think ritual magic is limited by tradition either.
Point is, they wouldn;t, he's not a druid, and he doesn;t share the same
ties to the land as them. It's more of a personal/group choice thing
than a complete prohibition by the rules

In 'most' campaigns, they wouldn't let him do any of those things,
they could, but they choose not too.


> 2) On a related note, how far can you go with Masking? What I'm
> thinking of is making a hermetic look shamanic. Perhaps the masking
> wouldn't hide the fact he is initiated, but would make him look shamanic
> instead...I'm not really sure. I don't think this can be done, but I
> wanted to see what the consensus was.

I believe there was a huge argument over stuff like this that I quickly
ignored. I believe the only thing you can mask yourself as 'officially'
is a mundane.

However, in the NAGA (yeah it hasn't been printed yet, so what?) there
is a type of ward that only allows it's creator's aura through (so you
can sit in it and project)the main disadvantage of the ward is that
other mages can mask themselves to such a degree as to appear as the
creator of the ward, and so fool it into letting them through.
So I guess, that when the book actually comes out, you can use the rules
from that to simulate masking yourself as another tradition.
NB. Fooling a 'dumb' astral construct like a ward is going to be a _lot_
easier than fooling another mage, or even a spirit.


Phil (Renegade)
Hey, I'm Welsh, I should know this stuff (honest ;-) )
Go Wizard of the Wenalt ;-)
Message no. 12
From: G'Koth of the Narn Regime <esj@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 21:25:03 -0700
So how Welsh are you Mr. Ward? I figure on about 1 fifth or so for me...
Hell, my great-great grandfather owned a damn coal mine...too bad my great
grandfather had to spend everything...

I'm not sure I totally agree on the Welsh druids, but I have info I
didn't really release. The PC in question does have welsh blood
(actually the last of a welsh noble bloodline (of course, to keep this
from being munchkinous, the noble position no longer exists, so it can't
_really_ be reclaimed)) and has spent a good amount of time and money
on/in Wales. Welsh is the PCs centering language, and all his magic has
a certain Welsh slant, of some sort. The PC loves Wales, probably more
than anything else, much as any true Welshman does. And considering he
will be _serving_ Griffin Meredioc (finally got the damn name right (the
Welsh Grand Druid)), and not a true, active member, I honestly don't
think this would be a problem.

As for the masking to look like someone of another tradition...I only
asked to see what ya'll think. I don't really think it can be done, but
there are enough loopholes (with NAGM) to maybe have an NPC do it...

Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler
list.member.grumpy

"Weep for the future Na'Toth,
weep for us all."
Message no. 13
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 16:48:19 BST
The Whistler wrote :-

> So how Welsh are you Mr. Ward? I figure on about 1 fifth or so for me...
> Hell, my great-great grandfather owned a damn coal mine...too bad my great
> grandfather had to spend everything...

Well, I like to thin so. My one grandfather was welsh, one grandmother was
english, and the other two were irish if you go back far enough, but I like
to think so. Hey I was born here; I can speak a few words, and once I get out
of college, I'll learn the rest.

So probably only about 25%. Ho-hum.

BTW :- Har Har, scratch one enlgish captain :-), although sacking him for
calling the governing body a 'bunch of old farts' does seem a little
excessive. ;-)



Just an opoinion mind you, the characer stounds like he's done a lot of work,
so let him in. Mine wouldn't have made that much effort, so I wouldn't let
my players join.


Masking as anther tradition for NPC's yes, like I said, the ground work is
there, go for it!

Oh yeah, and it's Phil please, if they'd let me change the name on the top
of this I would, be there ya go.

Phil (or Renegade, I'm not fussy)
Message no. 14
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 16:49:03 BST
Oh yeah, and another thing, My mother's family name is Jones,
and I;ll be changing back to it! How Welsh does that make me?

Phil (Jones the Systems Aanlyst ;-) (or something) )
Message no. 15
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 11:32:19 +0200
> 1) Could a PC, with the _right_ contacts, join the druids, without being
> a druid? I'm reffering to the Welsh druids in particular, and the PC in
> question is a hermetic with close ties to Meradoc Griffin, the Welsh
> Grand Druid, and Rhonabwy, the Welsh Dragon. He knows the right people,
> has the right bloodlines, and has the inherent talent. But do you think
> the Druids would let him in at all, even on a limited basis?

I'd say yes, after all the celtic (shamanic) druids are not as paranoid/
elitist as their hermetic (english) counterparts. And if the character
in question has the bloodline and the connections I dont see why they
wouldnt accept him. OTOH this soeant mean that he wont ruffle some feathers
by joining them...

> 2) On a related note, how far can you go with Masking? What I'm
> thinking of is making a hermetic look shamanic. Perhaps the masking
> wouldn't hide the fact he is initiated, but would make him look shamanic
> instead...I'm not really sure. I don't think this can be done, but I
> wanted to see what the consensus was.

Masking can make you look like a mundane, you canot use masking to
make your aura look like the aura of a different person, so I guess
that you cant make it like the aura of a shaman.
Masking is used to "drain" the power out the image you present to
the astral, no to disguise yourself.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+$>++++ L+>+++ E--- N+ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
Message no. 16
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 11:39:26 +0200
> What you are talking about is the difference between philosophy and a
> religion. Druids, especially the Welsh order (as I remeber) are a
> magical/religious order. Hermetic magic is NOT the same thing. I think you
> would be closer if you were a shaman. They would allow him to hang around,
> and be friendly but I doubt there would be any real reason to except him
> because of the following:
> 1. They couldn't teach him magic
> 2. He couldn't take part in rituals
> 3. He couldn't take place in initiations

Contrary to what shamans may believe different types of magicians *can* learn
from each other - hell they can even use the same formulas when enchanting
magica objects (albeit with a penalty). Different magicains may practice different
magic, but its magic nonetheless. As for initiation, I dont see why a hermetic
would be unable to initiate with them, as long as they let him join their
magical group.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+$>++++ L+>+++ E--- N+ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
Message no. 17
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 20:00:36 +0930
Jani Fikouras wrote:
> As for initiation, I dont see why a hermetic
> would be unable to initiate with them, as long as they let him join their
^^^^ being shamanic druids.
> magical group.

And they were willing to find a new Astral Whatchamacallit (Bond? The link
between the group and the astral that gives the bonus for group
inititation) to allow for hermetics and shamans to mix.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 18
From: Daniel Kollmer <dkollmer@**.OR.AT>
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 16:58:56 +0200
>Got two questions (gee, been a while since I've done this) for all y'all.
>
>1) Could a PC, with the _right_ contacts, join the druids, without being
>a druid? I'm reffering to the Welsh druids in particular, and the PC in
>question is a hermetic with close ties to Meradoc Griffin, the Welsh
>Grand Druid, and Rhonabwy, the Welsh Dragon. He knows the right people,
>has the right bloodlines, and has the inherent talent. But do you think
>the Druids would let him in at all, even on a limited basis?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANSWER:I'd say yes-generally.They would almost certainly put him through
various mystic trials and initiatory rites which might include some kind of=

astral quest,gathering and refining materials,ritual consecrations and
enchantments and maybe even a considerable dose of real danger.
I would not reduce such a hallowed rite as the acception into the ranks of=

the Druids to number crunching and dice rolling.Meet with the player alone=

and go through it with him.The key factors should be role-played rather than=

resumed with arithmetics.Let the player show you that he wants to join and=

that he's able to guide his character accordingly.
Being a protegée of a grand Druid and a Dragon might help,but even these=

individuals maybe respect the traditions and the power contained therein.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------

>2) On a related note, how far can you go with Masking? What I'm
>thinking of is making a hermetic look shamanic. Perhaps the masking
>wouldn't hide the fact he is initiated, but would make him look shamanic
>instead...I'm not really sure. I don't think this can be done, but I
>wanted to see what the consensus was.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANSWER:Though it doesn't say so in the rules,it is possible-according to the=

grimoire-that an initiate can mask as a mundane,mask foci and appear as
uninitiated magic-user.With these things possible,why should it not be
probable that a mage masks as shaman or vice versa.Thaumaturgy is a young
science in the sixth world,and new ways of controlling and manipulating the=

powers are devised and/or stumbled upon on a regular basis.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler
>list.member.grumpy
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope that helps?If you figured out how to do the Druid thing,care to tell me=

how you and your player went through it.It would be interesting.
By the way;do you set your game in Britain?I do,and I designed some
britain-specific archetypes,I could post them if you want.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]=


E.lectron P.owered S.ound P.erformance
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Message no. 19
From: Daniel Kollmer <dkollmer@**.OR.AT>
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 17:38:13 +0200
>Phil (Renegade)
>Hey, I'm Welsh, I should know this stuff (honest ;-) )
>Go Wizard of the Wenalt ;-)
>
>Hoi there term.My father's family is from Chester.
Always mind the standing stones He-He-He
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

E.lectron P.owered S.ound P.erformance
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

D.A.W.N.
of time
Message no. 20
From: G'Koth of the Narn Regime <esj@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two Questions
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 11:42:52 -0700
On Sun, 7 May 1995, P Ward wrote:

> Oh yeah, and another thing, My mother's family name is Jones,
> and I;ll be changing back to it! How Welsh does that make me?
>
> Phil (Jones the Systems Aanlyst ;-) (or something) )
>
Not as Welsh as my mother's name, Jenkins ;-)

And as an aside, my great-great grandfather didn't own a coal mine, it
was an iron works. Still not a pretty sight, eh?

Someone on here is actually from Wales right? Do you know any Welsh? My
'Rents, when they were in Wales a few weeks back, got me a beginners
Welsh book. Haven't seen it yet, but I plan on trying to learn it,
starting this summer. If anyone out there knows Welsh, and wouldn't mind
helping a poor "sep", e-mail me _privately_ and we can try to work
something out.

Erik, a.k.a the Whistler
list.member.grumpy

"Weep for the future Na'Toth
weep for us all."
Message no. 21
From: Johan Felt <is97jfa@*******.HK-R.SE>
Subject: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 00:00:55 +0200
Hi.

In the last run my players made some mistakes. Now, first thing they
blow up a building (no vitnesses they thought). Second thing they
assasinated a couple of guards. My questions is: can the company us the
areas nature spirits to get information about the runners. What
information can the company get from the bullets and cases lying around
the area.

--
// Johan Felt
-----------------------------------------

homepage: http://jfk.rsn.hk-r.se
e-mail : is97jfa@*******.hk-t.se

-----------------------------------------
Message no. 22
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:28:38 -0500
> My questions is: can the company us the
> areas nature spirits to get information about the runners.
No. nature Spirits have no knowledge about what goes on in an area until
they're summoned (unless its severe damage in their environment, then they'll
know that it happened)

> What
> information can the company get from the bullets and cases lying around
> the area.
Probably very little. Most people don't form enough attachment to bullets and
their cases to produce any sort of aural imprint. Other information they could
glean from it is where the bullets were manufactured, and likely that many
bullets from that lot "disappeared en route to dealer". They could also take
the bullets for later forensic evidence, but that's largely backing up when
they find the runners (and the guns that fired it).

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
************
Yet, I'm also a man who's constantly strivin' for a perfection I'll never
achieve... and probably wouldn't even recognize it if I did.
-Logan, in issue 124 of "Wolverine"
***********
Am Moireach Mor!




>
> --
> // Johan Felt
> -----------------------------------------
>
> homepage: http://jfk.rsn.hk-r.se
> e-mail : is97jfa@*******.hk-t.se
>
> -----------------------------------------
Message no. 23
From: An object at rest CANNOT BE STOPPED! <brooksie@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:43:08 -0400
> Probably very little. Most people don't form enough attachment to
bullets and
>their cases to produce any sort of aural imprint. Other information they
could
>glean from it is where the bullets were manufactured, and likely that many
>bullets from that lot "disappeared en route to dealer". They could also
take
>the bullets for later forensic evidence, but that's largely backing up when
>they find the runners (and the guns that fired it).


I would imagine the art of forensics will make leaps and bounds in the next
sixty years. At that point, any decent forensics lab should be able to lift
a latent fingerprint off of the casing, even after the gun was fired, and
the casing sat out in the rain for a while before the evidence team got
there... Hell, nowadays, the FBI can lift serial numbers that have been
filed off of guns, and writing off of paper that was even a few sheets under
the one you were writing on.
I can only see things getting harder on criminals in the future.
In any case, that's why there's caseless ammo in Fields of Fire.
_________________________________________________________________
[brooksie@********.com]
Message no. 24
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:05:41 PDT
>Hi.
>
>In the last run my players made some mistakes. Now, first thing they
>blow up a building (no vitnesses they thought). Second thing they
>assasinated a couple of guards. My questions is: can the company us the
>areas nature spirits to get information about the runners.

<english teacher>
Interogative statements end with a questions mark("?").
</english teacher>
To answer the question, I suppose they could(search?). But it
depends on what the PCs did to prevent leaving any evidence. Of course
it's GM discretion, but most Corps(esp Sec Corps) use mages that conjur
elementals("YOU try telling a coyote shaman he only has an hour for
lunch.").

What
>information can the company get from the bullets and cases lying around
>the area.

Magically speaking? Anything they want, depending on the quality(or
quantities) of the magics involved. I'm assuming there is a Street Sam
among this group, if so, bullets(and their casings) would be very
important to him- it's his bread and butter. Whenever I want a Sec
Force to hound my players, I also make sure the detectives just "happen"
to find a strand of hair that fell off one of the runners- that's enough
to do some ritual magic(find individual) and pretty much make their
lives a living hell. But you as GM should make sure the PCs do have a
way out- a one-sided butt-kicking contest is only fun to the person
doing the kicking.



-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
___________________________________________________________
"Sure, there's an order to the universe, but this time I
think the Big Guy forgot the pepperoni."
-Liam Bough


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 25
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 00:41:24 EDT
In a message dated 4/5/98 5:35:45 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
nexx@********.NET writes:

> > My questions is: can the company us the
> > areas nature spirits to get information about the runners.
> No. nature Spirits have no knowledge about what goes on in an area
> until
> they're summoned (unless its severe damage in their environment, then they'
> ll
> know that it happened)

Then they'll have an idea, as you managed to snip the part about "the building
being blown up". In our games, Nature Spirits are "latent" until directly
called upon, and then when they do so, they roll their Force as an information
gathering test, similar to a perception roll a character would have made.
That way you have a variable chance and a Table to guide you with in the GM
rulings (as per the "Behind the Scenes" sections of the BBB).

> > What
> > information can the company get from the bullets and cases lying around
> > the area.
> Probably very little. Most people don't form enough attachment to
> bullets and
> their cases to produce any sort of aural imprint. Other information they
> could
> glean from it is where the bullets were manufactured, and likely that many
> bullets from that lot "disappeared en route to dealer". They could also
> take
> the bullets for later forensic evidence, but that's largely backing up when
> they find the runners (and the guns that fired it).

Also, depending on the bullet, you could get the "round print" from the
processing machine/pressing device. IF they were stolen from somewhere, then
you (the company) could alert -that- individual/corporate entity, notify them
of their "thieves being active in a given area", and probably get a bit of
help from them in some form.

If the bullets are "Independently Produced" (like a home make or illicit
operation of some kind), then that option is reduced, -BUT- the
police/security authorities become aware of someone minting stuff of that
nature, and can apply pressure in other methods.

The options are there, end opinion, it's just a matter of how much it's gonna
be worth to anyone IMO.

-K



>
> ***************
> Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
> aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
> ************
> Yet, I'm also a man who's constantly strivin' for a perfection I'll never
> achieve... and probably wouldn't even recognize it if I did.
> -Logan, in issue 124 of "Wolverine"
> ***********
> Am Moireach Mor!
>
>
>
>
> >
> > --
> > // Johan Felt
> > -----------------------------------------
> >
> > homepage: http://jfk.rsn.hk-r.se
> > e-mail : is97jfa@*******.hk-t.se
> >
> > -----------------------------------------
>
>
Message no. 26
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:24:44 -0500
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Johan Felt wrote:

> Hi.
>
> In the last run my players made some mistakes. Now, first thing they
> blow up a building (no vitnesses they thought). Second thing they
> assasinated a couple of guards. My questions is: can the company us the
> areas nature spirits to get information about the runners. What
> information can the company get from the bullets and cases lying around
> the area.

Don't know about the nature spirit. The harth spirit probably saw
something but the buildings no longer in it's domain. As for the casings
I'd say probably fingurprints and DNA. I'd think that in 205X they would
be able to construct metatype, hight, weight, most likely apperance, blood
type, SIN (if you've got one), and sex from DNA. Basically everything but
the players names.

SteveD

>
> --
> // Johan Felt
> -----------------------------------------
>
> homepage: http://jfk.rsn.hk-r.se
> e-mail : is97jfa@*******.hk-t.se
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
Message no. 27
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 03:19:43 -0400
At 01:24 AM 4/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
As for the casings
>I'd say probably fingurprints and DNA. I'd think that in 205X they would
>be able to construct metatype, hight, weight, most likely apperance, blood
>type, SIN (if you've got one), and sex from DNA. Basically everything but
>the players names.

There is a lot more to determining a person's height, weight, and
appearance than simply their genetic code... A great many factors come
into it in the development of an animal, especially one as complex as a
(meta)human being, which develops over such a long childhood. DNA will let
you rule out some categories, but it is not a blueprint for a human being.
It is at best a good "sketch". Nutrition during formative years, among
other things, can make an enormous difference in how a child turns out in
adulthood, not to mention eating habits, exercise, etc. once mature. And
I'm sure elective surgery can have a lot to say about how you look, by 2050.

I'm not sure if DNA info is always linked to one's SIN, though it certainly
can be. SIN's are very fuzzily defined in SR.

Blood type is pretty much directly determined from DNA, I believe, and so
yes that could easily be worked out from a sample (of skin, for instance).


losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.




the damned."


TMBG
Message no. 28
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:50:33 +0100
Johan Felt said on 0:00/ 6 Apr 98...

> In the last run my players made some mistakes. Now, first thing they
> blow up a building (no vitnesses they thought). Second thing they
> assasinated a couple of guards. My questions is: can the company us the
> areas nature spirits to get information about the runners.

I tend to play nature spirits as having a general idea of what happened,
but not able to really identify individual people involved. This is mainly
because my players have a habit of summoning a spirit and asking it
questions about the things that happened there.

> What information can the company get from the bullets and cases lying
> around the area.

They can probably identify who made the ammo (cartridge cases usually have
the manufacturer's name and/or a code stamped into their bottoms), and
from that possibly where the ammo was bought (or stolen :) This would be
easier with special or uncommon types of ammo, like APDS.

Also, if more than one bullet is found, they can tell which bullets were
fired from the same gun. Likewise, if they find the gun (for example when
arresting one of the runners) they can match the bullets to that gun.

It might also be possible to identify the type of gun used (or to get a
general indication), I'm not sure.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're listening to ME now?
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 29
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:50:33 +0100
An object at rest CANNOT BE S said on 18:43/ 5 Apr 98...

> I would imagine the art of forensics will make leaps and bounds in the next
> sixty years. At that point, any decent forensics lab should be able to lift
> a latent fingerprint off of the casing, even after the gun was fired

Doesn't the firing the round erase fingerprints off the cartridge case
because of the heat involved?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're listening to ME now?
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 30
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:05:15 -0500
> I'd think that in 205X they would
> be able to construct metatype, hight, weight, most likely apperance, blood
> type, SIN (if you've got one), and sex from DNA. Basically everything but
> the players names.
I don't think they would. First off, you'd have to find a sample (not very
hard if one of the characters was bleeding). Secondly, DNA sets up your
template. It isn't going to record things like the jaundice you had when you
were young, which is why you're yellow and skinny, that large hunk of metal you
have in place of an arm, the scars that run across your face from when that
little bastard at the bar sliced you for putting your hand on his chica, or the
green dye you use in place of normal hair color.
Unless, of course, one of them spent time in jail... then they'll have it on
file.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
************
Yet, I'm also a man who's constantly strivin' for a perfection I'll never
achieve... and probably wouldn't even recognize it if I did.
-Logan, in issue 124 of "Wolverine"
***********
Am Moireach Mor!
Message no. 31
From: "P. Nicholas Vogt" <P.Nicholas.Vogt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:20:57 EDT
losthalo wrote:
At 01:24 AM 4/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
As for the casings
>I'd say probably fingurprints and DNA. I'd think that in 205X they would
>be able to construct metatype, hight, weight, most likely apperance, blood
>type, SIN (if you've got one), and sex from DNA. Basically everything but
>the players names.
--- end of quoted material ---

ok, i'll bite.

how are corp specialists going to lift fingerprints and obtain dna samples from
the casing from a round that's already been fired? it would already have been
subject to massive heat.
Message no. 32
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:41:55 EDT
In a message dated 4/6/98 7:51:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time, gurth@******.NL
writes:

> Doesn't the firing the round erase fingerprints off the cartridge case
> because of the heat involved?
>
I don't know this for certain, but someone once told me that the heat actually
creates an "oil print" on the round itself that is a more or less match to the
original fingerprint. Me, I think it's bull$hit, but the logic had some bit
of realism to it. I always thought a particular round would lose any
fingerprints after impacting with an object (wall, body part, etc.).

(shrug)
-K
Message no. 33
From: Chris Lubrecht <lubrecht@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:07:41 -0400
At 09:41 AM 4/6/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 4/6/98 7:51:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL
>writes:
>
>> Doesn't the firing the round erase fingerprints off the cartridge case
>> because of the heat involved?
>>
>I don't know this for certain, but someone once told me that the heat
actually
>creates an "oil print" on the round itself that is a more or less match to
the
>original fingerprint. Me, I think it's bull$hit, but the logic had some bit
>of realism to it. I always thought a particular round would lose any
>fingerprints after impacting with an object (wall, body part, etc.).



actually...there is a process for 'blueing' metal in which gun oil is
placed on the metal and the metal is then heated/ The oil 'scorches' the
metal and leaves it a shinny blue-black. The same could be true for
fingerprints (without the color I suppose)


Nigel
Message no. 34
From: Kristling <kristling@*******.CROSSWINDS.NET>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:18:08 -0400
Gurth wrote:
>
> An object at rest CANNOT BE S said on 18:43/ 5 Apr 98...
>
> > I would imagine the art of forensics will make leaps and bounds in the next
> > sixty years. At that point, any decent forensics lab should be able to lift
> > a latent fingerprint off of the casing, even after the gun was fired
>
> Doesn't the firing the round erase fingerprints off the cartridge case
> because of the heat involved?
>
And didn't we already have a long, drawn out thread based on Gurth's
above statement?
--
Faith manages. And so, for some insane reason, do Saban's Power Rangers.
--Your friendly web crawlin' cyber Raven shaman, nee Wannabe comic book
writer, Daniel Sauve
AKA KRISTLING RAVENWING
Message no. 35
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:22:06 -0400
> Johan Felt said on 0:00/ 6 Apr 98...
>
> > In the last run my players made some mistakes. Now, first thing they
> > blow up a building (no vitnesses they thought). Second thing they
> > assasinated a couple of guards. My questions is: can the company us the
> > areas nature spirits to get information about the runners.
> > What information can the company get from the bullets and cases lying
> > around the area.
>
Well, if they blew up the building, the best place for the investigators
to start would be with the residue from the explosives. If they used
military grade plastique, like C-12 or C-16, then it should be pretty easy
to identify who made it, then examine records of any shipments which were
lost or stolen, check that with lists of known arms dealers, especially
those operating in the runner's home town, and eventually conclude that,
since the building was blown up using brand x C-16, of which 500 kilos was
recently stolen by a group of thieves who's MO matches that of a fixer's,
call him Mr. Badd, gang who supply all of Seattle (or where ever) with
heavy weapons and explosives, they can surmise that this is where the
runners acquired their goods.

So, the cops have one major lead: the fixer.

Next, they can examine the detonator and timer and other electronic
equipment used in the bomb. Then, they cross reference this with the
purchasing records of every electronics store in the UCAS for the last
year, all of which are kept neatly arranged and accessable to law
enforcement agencies due to the magic of SINs and electronic cash and
reference these with people who might have any association with Mr. Badd,
the fixer. If, of course, the runners were intelligent and bought the
elecronics on the street, then the cops are out of luck unless the
runners got fancy and used high-tech detonators, in which case the police
can simply repeat the same steps they used to find the fixer.

Thus, we see the net tightening as the cops slowly find who has supplied
the runners.

At this point, the cops could make a public statement offering a reward
for information leading to arrests in association with the murders and
bombing.

After this, the cops can cross-reference the evidence at the crime scene
with evidence from other crimes. Shell casings and slugs, explosives and
any other evidence can be used to link these runners to a string of
crimes. Perhaps here, the cops will get lucky and find a fingerprint or a
piece of security footage that was not killed by the decker or even some
DNA. Even if they do not, they can still do a few things. One, trace the
weapons back to fixers, which might be rather difficult if the runners
used Predators, but not too difficult if they used more unusual guns. Two,
from the connections between the various crimes, they can begin to develop
a pattern and establish an MO for the runners. Thus, they might be able to
get a lead on who the Johnsons are and post warnings to corporate security
forces as to what to watch out for.

Finally, with a considerable number of potential witnesses, the cops could
make a public statement to the effect that arrests are near in the murder
of two security guards and bombing of x building due to an anonymous tip.
All the cops have to do is wait for the runners to call one of their
fixers wondering about who sold them out...
Message no. 36
From: An object at rest CANNOT BE STOPPED! <brooksie@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:05:42 -0400
>So, the cops have one major lead: the fixer.
>
>Thus, we see the net tightening as the cops slowly find who has supplied
>the runners.
>


Cops? Since when are there cops in Shadowrun?
You seem to be missing an 'r'...

Corps

That's right. A Corporation will be running the investigation. So the bottom
line becomes not catching them and bringing them to justice... The bottom
line becomes:
Do we want to put our test marked through all of this trouble, and shake
down all of the arms dealers that -WE- supply?
Do we want to chase down runners that -WE- may have used in the past, or
might use again in the future?
Do we want to send the message that we hunt down any runners that cross our
path (thus hurting our own options next time we need to hire non-official
assetts?)
_________________________________________________________________
[brooksie@********.com]
Message no. 37
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:02:12 -0500
At 09:20 AM 98-04-06 -0400, you wrote:
>losthalo wrote:
>At 01:24 AM 4/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
> As for the casings
>>I'd say probably fingurprints and DNA. I'd think that in 205X they would
>>be able to construct metatype, hight, weight, most likely apperance, blood
>>type, SIN (if you've got one), and sex from DNA. Basically everything but
>>the players names.
>--- end of quoted material ---
>
>ok, i'll bite.
>
>how are corp specialists going to lift fingerprints and obtain dna samples
from
>the casing from a round that's already been fired? it would already have
been
>subject to massive heat.
>
I'm sure the players left DNA somewhere. As for getting fingerprints off
shell casing I belive it can be done today. If you throw a little magic
into the process I'm sure things would go much smother (sure it won't stand
up in court but I got the distinct impression all the corp wanted to know
is where the send the hit squad). Now rather or not said DNA is good
enough to use for ritual perposes is questionable.

SteveD
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
Message no. 38
From: Caric <caric@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:54:48 -0700
---Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/6/98 7:51:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL
> writes:
>
> > Doesn't the firing the round erase fingerprints off the cartridge
case
> > because of the heat involved?
> >
> I don't know this for certain, but someone once told me that the
heat actually
> creates an "oil print" on the round itself that is a more or less
match to the
> original fingerprint. Me, I think it's bull$hit, but the logic had
some bit
> of realism to it. I always thought a particular round would lose any
> fingerprints after impacting with an object (wall, body part, etc.).

Were talking just the casings here...the round itslef wouldn't have
any fingerprints...I really can't say that the casing would or
wouldn't to be honest, but I didn't want you to go through life upset
because ppl were pulling fingerprints from bullets imbedded into stone
walls and such. :)


Caric
_________________________________________________________
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Message no. 39
From: Caric <caric@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:58:17 -0700
---Gurth <gurth@******.NL> wrote:
>
> > What information can the company get from the bullets and cases
lying
> > around the area.
>
> They can probably identify who made the ammo (cartridge cases
usually have
> the manufacturer's name and/or a code stamped into their bottoms), and
> from that possibly where the ammo was bought (or stolen :) This
would be
> easier with special or uncommon types of ammo, like APDS.
>
> Also, if more than one bullet is found, they can tell which bullets
were
> fired from the same gun. Likewise, if they find the gun (for example
when
> arresting one of the runners) they can match the bullets to that gun.
>
> It might also be possible to identify the type of gun used (or to
get a
> general indication), I'm not sure.

Well they could definately tell what type of gun (HP, SMG, etc...)
and possibly more specifically (Predator II, Uzi III, etc...)
depending on how common that type of weapon is the markings may be
similar to one another.


Caric
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Message no. 40
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:42:42 -0500
> If you throw a little magic
> into the process I'm sure things would go much smother

Is it just me, or does this sound like the thing that one mage in the
beginning of Awakenings was talking about? Throw magic at the problem to make
up for another division's short-comings, I believe she said? (OT but scary
note: My life, without magic, pretty much mirrors hers... scared the crap outta
me)

Despite mundane belief, magic can't do everything. I think it would take an
obsessive samurai to care enough about his ammo to forge an astral link with
each shell. Sure, a sammy is going to care about his ammo. He wants it to be
able to work for him when he needs it. But is a sammy going to forge an astral
link with each shell, one that will last after he has no more use for it? No.
Perhaps a case could be made for an astral link if he used karma to boost his
successes, though <BEGMG>

Sure, magic could be used other ways, but there has to be an available
fingerprint for magic to bring it out. The best option the corp is going to
have is get a detection specialist in, have him cast a few postcognition spells
about the time of the explosions, and have him work with an artist to get
pictures up.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
************
Yet, I'm also a man who's constantly strivin' for a perfection I'll never
achieve... and probably wouldn't even recognize it if I did.
-Logan, in issue 124 of "Wolverine"
***********
Am Moireach Mor!
Message no. 41
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:47:26 -0400
At 09:41 AM 4/6/98 EDT, you wrote:
>I don't know this for certain, but someone once told me that the heat
actually
>creates an "oil print" on the round itself that is a more or less match to
the
>original fingerprint. Me, I think it's bull$hit, but the logic had some bit
>of realism to it.

Not necessarily B.S. I worked in a factory that made automotive glass, and
it was fairly easy to get fingerprints on the glass when handling it before
it went into a furnace, burning a mark into the glass and making it useless.

We're talking different temperatures and materials here, but it is possible.

I always thought a particular round would lose any
>fingerprints after impacting with an object (wall, body part, etc.).

You don't get prints off the round (or at least that's not what was
mentioned), it was getting prints off of ejected casings, which you
actually handle. The round is inside the casing, prior to being fired, the
casing is left behind (caseless rounds aside), and ejected from the weapon
unless you use a brass-catcher to collect it.

losthalo
Message no. 42
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:18:30 -0400
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, An object at rest CANNOT BE STOPPED! wrote:

> >So, the cops have one major lead: the fixer.
> >
> >Thus, we see the net tightening as the cops slowly find who has supplied
> >the runners.
> >
>
>
> Cops? Since when are there cops in Shadowrun?
> You seem to be missing an 'r'...
>
> Corps
>
> That's right. A Corporation will be running the investigation. So the bottom
> line becomes not catching them and bringing them to justice... The bottom
> line becomes:
> Do we want to put our test marked through all of this trouble, and shake
> down all of the arms dealers that -WE- supply?
> Do we want to chase down runners that -WE- may have used in the past, or
> might use again in the future?
> Do we want to send the message that we hunt down any runners that cross our
> path (thus hurting our own options next time we need to hire non-official
> assetts?)

No, given the nature of the crime, it would be a federal investigation.
While the murder of the security guards would most likely be handled by
whomever has the contract to uphold the laws of the the given
jurisdiction, the bombing would be considered an act of terrorism
involving a weapon of mass destruction. Thus, the FBI (which is still very
much around), would be overseeing the criminal investigation of the
bombing. Further, if a decker was involved, which one would assume as
there was no mention of any security camera footage, then the NSA would
also have a stake in the investigation. And, if this corporation were
extraterritorial, then one is looking at an act of international terrorism
which only increases the amount of effort being placed into the hunt.

Essentially, the crime would be within both the jurisdiction of the home
states of the shadowrunners (assuming the UCAS) and the corporation
attacked (assuming it is extraterritorial). This is based, in the first
place, upon the nationality principle of jurisdiction, which gives nations
jurisdiction over their nationals where ever they may be. (If you go to
another country and commit a legal act, you may still be prosecuted when
you return to your home country if the act was illegal there.) Secondly,
the corporation has jurisdiction under the prtection principle, which
gives a state jurisdiction over foreign nationals who threaten the
security of the state.

Now, for the second part of your argument, you assume that corporations
act as a united front. This is simply not true. If Lone Star does not
investigate the crime, they are violating their contract, and this will
cost them money in the long run. Secondly, this is not simply an issue of
petty armed robbery but of international terrorism involving a WMD. Thus,
every possible supplier will be investigated, both in an attempt to catch
the runners and shut down whomever is dealing in stolem military goods.
Thirdly, it is absurd to suggest that the corporation which was attacked
could suppress and investigation. This would be the same as saying a
nation-state would suppress the investigation of a terrorist bombing of an
airplane. Finally, for a crime as public as the bombing of a building,
there will be considerable public outcry that these viscious terrorists be
brought to justice.
Message no. 43
From: An object at rest CANNOT BE STOPPED! <brooksie@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:46:30 -0400
>Finally, for a crime as public as the bombing of a building,
>there will be considerable public outcry that these viscious terrorists be
>brought to justice.
>

And this gives rise to the patsy.

Sure... I believe that Timothy Vey blew up that federal building because he
couldn't pass the special forces screening process. Sure I do.
_________________________________________________________________
[brooksie@********.com]
Message no. 44
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:23:05 -0400
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, An object at rest CANNOT BE STOPPED! wrote:

> >Finally, for a crime as public as the bombing of a building,
> >there will be considerable public outcry that these viscious terrorists be
> >brought to justice.
> >
>
> And this gives rise to the patsy.

Like a bunch of *innocent* shadowrunners.
Message no. 45
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:12:44 -0500
> > And this gives rise to the patsy.
>
> Like a bunch of *innocent* shadowrunners.

Are you implying that shadowrunners might have anything other than pure
motives? Every runner I've ever encountered would have to wear diapers if he
got any more innocent.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
************
Yet, I'm also a man who's constantly strivin' for a perfection I'll never
achieve... and probably wouldn't even recognize it if I did.
-Logan, in issue 124 of "Wolverine"
***********
Am Moireach Mor!

By the gods, I hope ya'll can read sarcasm
Message no. 46
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:24:43 -0800
>> What
>> information can the company get from the bullets and cases lying around
>> the area.
>>
>Probably very little. Most people don't form enough attachment to bullets and
>their cases to produce any sort of aural imprint. Other information they
>could
>glean from it is where the bullets were manufactured, and likely that many
>bullets from that lot "disappeared en route to dealer". They could also
take
>the bullets for later forensic evidence, but that's largely backing up when
>they find the runners (and the guns that fired it).
>

Here's my 2 cents on this one.

I think there's one area where an attachment between the brass and the
shooter could be found - snipers. Hard core sharp shooters load their
own loads. I think magically they could almost be a ritual link, and there
could possibly be some sort of aura detectable?

But that's a fringe case.

There is a writer who has put out some books in the same genre as Tom Clancy,
except they are oriented towards military snipers. Two books he wrote that
were great reading, and filled with a lot of techinically accurate data,
were "The Master Sniper," and "Point of Impact." I think the author
was
Stephen Hunter, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Anyway, for those of you wondering what it's like to be in the head of a
sniper, these books will put you there. And if you're looking for details
pertaining to sharp shooting, they lay down a good framework for some of
the technical aspects. Sure, things are different in 2055, but these will
give you a great framework to work with.

-Rob
Message no. 47
From: Jacob Engstrom <sabredanz@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:12:08 EDT
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:12:44 -0500 Nexx <nexx@********.NET> writes:
>Are you implying that shadowrunners might have anything >other than pure
motives? Every runner I've ever >encountered would have to wear diapers
if he
>got any more innocent.

Jezz, given some of the listings I have seen on here, you all have to
come up to Duluth and see our campaign.

Stephen-A street wretch physad cum part-time Organlegger and Gang banger
who on several occasions resorted to cannibalism on a cold winter.
Richard O'Shay- Seven-7 derivative in DMSO anyone?
Has hit four security guards and an old lady to date.
Remeu(remoew)- A Leopard shapeshifter who is out to find who is killing
her tribe and will go through anyone to find out.

These are just a few of the outstanding members of the "darker" side of
the group. We do have many "Good" characters (most of whom want to geek
the three). We just play the extremes I guess.

J.T. Engstrom

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Message no. 48
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:54:37 -0500
> On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:12:44 -0500 Nexx <nexx@********.NET> writes:
> >Are you implying that shadowrunners might have anything >other than pure
> motives? Every runner I've ever >encountered would have to wear diapers
> if he
> >got any more innocent.
>
> Jezz, given some of the listings I have seen on here, you all have to
> come up to Duluth and see our campaign.

Too bad you missed my footnote that said "Boy, I hope you guys can read
sarcasm", Huh?
Message no. 49
From: David Thompson <david.s.thompson@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two questions.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 16:33:04 -0400
At 10:24 PM 4/6/98 -0800, Robert Nesius wrote:

>
>There is a writer who has put out some books in the same genre as Tom Clancy,
>except they are oriented towards military snipers. Two books he wrote that
>were great reading, and filled with a lot of techinically accurate data,
>were "The Master Sniper," and "Point of Impact." I think the
author was
>Stephen Hunter, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
>
>Anyway, for those of you wondering what it's like to be in the head of a
>sniper, these books will put you there. And if you're looking for details
>pertaining to sharp shooting, they lay down a good framework for some of
>the technical aspects. Sure, things are different in 2055, but these will
>give you a great framework to work with.

You got the name right, he is one of my favorite authors (of
non-literature, I guess). Not all his stuff is about snipers, he focuses
on the real loner military hard case kind of guys. Characters include
tunnel rats from Vietnam (both American and Vietnamese), snipers, law
enforcement (ex military). All real hard people who whup ass without any
backup. Of course, my favorites are about the snipers. I should add also
that his books have both plot and characterization, where Clancy sometimes
seems to enjoy tech toys and scenarios more than character development (not
that I don't like Clancy also). I'd definitely recommend Hunter,
especially Point of Impact, which I think I'm about to re-re-read as a
result of this post...

--DT
Message no. 50
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Two questions
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:56:22 -0400
Sorry about the funky formatting... I sent this to the wrong address
orignally.

> I have a couple of questions that I hope somebody out there can help me
> with.
>
> First off, has anybody developed (or is anybody aware of) conversion
methods
> from the original Matrix rules and Matrix 2.0?I'm... er... borrowing
> (*wink*) some stuff from older adventures and was wondering if I could
save
> myself some effort.
>
> Secondly, soebody this past weekend mentioned they had developed some
> intorductory adventures that did a good job of introducing players to SR,
> and also did a good job testing the suitability of characters. I forget
who
> it was, but I'd be interested in seeinga copy of your notes. It might be
> something I'd like to develop for my own group, as many of them are new to
> the system.
>
> Thanks in advance for whatever help you can give.
>
> -- Josh Harrison -- mataxes@****.net
> Suite101 Contributing Editor, Hercules & Xena
> http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/hercules_and_xena
>
>
Message no. 51
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Two questions
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:45:48 +0200
According to Josh Harrison, at 18:56 on 12 Jun 00, the word on the street
was...

> > First off, has anybody developed (or is anybody aware of) conversion methods
> > from the original Matrix rules and Matrix 2.0?I'm... er... borrowing
> > (*wink*) some stuff from older adventures and was wondering if I could save
> > myself some effort.

Soon after VR 2.0 came out, listmember Stephen Eley figured out a
conversion between the two that works fairly well. He posted it to the
list, probably also to other places (you might want to try the Shadowrun
Archive), and I also put it into the Player's Guide to Shadowrun House
Rules, http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/srbooks/tpgtshr.html (I
hope :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here come the golden oldies. Here come the Hezbollah.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 52
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Two questions
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:40:22 GMT
>From: "Josh Harrison" <mataxes@****.net>
> > I have a couple of questions that I hope somebody out there can help me
> > with.

If you ask about GMing, don't expect only one "somebody" to give you an
answer :)>

> > First off, has anybody developed (or is anybody aware of) conversion
>methods
> > from the original Matrix rules and Matrix 2.0?I'm... er... borrowing
> > (*wink*) some stuff from older adventures and was wondering if I could
>save
> > myself some effort.

I beleive that The Player's Guide To House Rules on the PW site has
something along these lines.

> > Secondly, soebody this past weekend mentioned they had developed some
> > intorductory adventures that did a good job of introducing players to
>SR,
> > and also did a good job testing the suitability of characters. I forget
>who
> > it was, but I'd be interested in seeinga copy of your notes. It might be
> > something I'd like to develop for my own group, as many of them are new
>to
> > the system.

I am not the individual you describe, but try this; don't send them on a
run. Let them explore Seattle, visit their contacts, try to find some gear,
get into a fight with a local gang, interact with the other characters and
stuff, just get them used to roleplaying. Then send them off on a run from
First Run or the one from Quickstart Rules.

Phil

...Unfortunatly one of them spotted our hidden microphone and followed the
extension cable back to the police station.
Milton Jones

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Message no. 53
From: Shadowboy 88 shadowboy88@*******.com
Subject: Two questions
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:37:38 CDT
Josh Harrison I have a question of my own, are you new to the game master
biz? As well as I do have some notes that I'd be willing to give to you as
soon as my web site is up and running. I've had some great success within
my group, they even survived the Renraku Arcology shutdown. Which isn't
quite easy going up against an artificial intellegance. And let me tell you
I wasn't the least bit remorsful about killing some of the characters. So
if you are prepared to be a good GM and help people have more fun tell em'
that they're all expendable and that's a rule of the shadows. Contact me if
you need anything else.

-Shadowboy88

Shadowboy88@*******.com
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Message no. 54
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Two questions
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:35:09 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Shadowboy 88 <shadowboy88@*******.com>
> Josh Harrison I have a question of my own, are you new to the game master
> biz?

Hardly. I've been gaming since '84 or '85. Played D&D most of the time (and
DMed most of that), until an aunt gave me a copy of SR2 (hardbound) for
Christmas one year (must have been '92). I really liked the game, and when
school started back up, I started GMing SR2 (though not much, and I had some
difficulty getting a handle on the system at the time). I left for college
that next fall, and got involved with some of the online SR community (I'm
an old-timer returning to the fold, as it were). That winter, I learned of
this new game called Earthdawn.

Well I got hooked on ED and ran it almost exclusively for the next six years
or so.

When SR3 came out a couple years ago, I picked it up. I had been following
the setting, because I was really intrigued by the overall story arc and
connections between ED and SR (I'm also a total game goob and collect these
things like crazy). One of my players expressed interest in SR when I
decided to start up a new game a month or two ago, so I shelved ED and
picked up SR.

So I'm not new to GMing by any stretch, but I'm not really familiar with the
balance of the SR system. I'm not at the point where I can just run it
yet -- at least, not to the degree that I can run ED (or D&D for that
matter).

The big thing is that many of my players are not only new to the system,
they're new to the setting as well, and I think it's much easier for them to
learn how things work in a low-stress situation. Since I'm not certain about
my GMing abilities with SR yet, I've been running pre-packaged adventures.
They don't exactly do a great job of conveying the info that most gamers
familiar with SR kind of take for granted.

> As well as I do have some notes that I'd be willing to give to you as
> soon as my web site is up and running.

I'd certainly be interested. I presume you'll let us know when the site is
up? I don't need any general GMing advice, more along the lines of SR
specific stuff that folks have found useful over the years. Thanks in
advance for any help.

-- Josh
Message no. 55
From: Iridios iridios@********.net
Subject: Two questions
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:11:57 -0400
Greetings,

First question, to those of you who speak French. What is the
proper french term for "The Chauffeur"? Am I correct in thinking that
the word chauffeur is french in origin?

Second question, to anyone. What is the official name of Japanese
style opera? Or it's closest counterpart.

--
Iridios
--
Discordianism: Where reality is a figment of your imagination

Visit "The ShadowZone"
http://members.xoom.com/Iridios/ShadowZone

Sig by Kookie Jar 5.97d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
9:03:59 PM/226:00:04 (1) [no thud]
Message no. 56
From: acjpenn@******.com acjpenn@******.com
Subject: Two questions
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:17:32 -0500
> Second question, to anyone. What is the official name of Japanese
> style opera? Or it's closest counterpart.


Hmm.. the first question I can't help with, but the second is my forte. Or
whatever ;)

Traditionaly, Japan has two types of theatre.

Noh (pronounced No, as in no, I know nothing about French stuff) is
minamilist in nature. The stage is bare except for the minimum of props.
These props are mostly boxes and such. The audience in Noh has to use
their imagination. The plays use masks to identify characters, who are all
dressed alike.

Kabuki theatre is the second type (duh) and is totally different. This
style is loud and flamboyant, very unlike Western theatre. The actors are
stiff, giving well-rehearsed lines in a loud voice. Clothing, makeup, and
voice play a very large part.

Both of these styles really have to be experienced to be understood.

Incedentaly, the stage hands in Noh are not disguised, but look exactly
like the actors, and often are the actors. Prop handling and such is done
on stage, and these stage hands learn to be invisible in plain sight,
unnoticed by the audience. This ties in nicely with the ability of the
Shinobi (ninja)

Hope this helps!

Laughing-Tiger
Message no. 57
From: Aewyn labsyn@*********.com
Subject: Two questions
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:11:58 -0500
At 20:11 -0500 14/08/2000, Iridios enlightened us on the topic of Two
questions:
>Greetings,
>
> First question, to those of you who speak French. What is the
>proper french term for "The Chauffeur"? Am I correct in thinking that
>the word chauffeur is french in origin?

Yep. Well, it may or may not be french in origin, but chauffeur is the same
word in french and enlgish.

Farewell,
Aewyn.
--------
There is only one absolute truth about life: it will end.
Reality's unreal.
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you"
-Nirvana
Message no. 58
From: Iridios iridios@********.net
Subject: Two questions
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:37:41 -0400
Aewyn wrote:

> > First question, to those of you who speak French. What is the
> >proper french term for "The Chauffeur"? Am I correct in thinking that
> >the word chauffeur is french in origin?
>
> Yep. Well, it may or may not be french in origin, but chauffeur is the same
> word in french and enlgish.

So would it then simply translate to "Le Chauffeur"?

--
Iridios
--
God Is

Visit "The ShadowZone"
http://members.xoom.com/Iridios/ShadowZone

Sig by Kookie Jar 5.97d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
10:34:00 PM/244:01:00 (1) [no thud]
Message no. 59
From: Iridios iridios@********.net
Subject: Two questions
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:42:05 -0400
acjpenn@******.com wrote:

> Traditionaly, Japan has two types of theatre.
>
> Noh (pronounced No, as in no, I know nothing about French stuff) is
<snip>

> Kabuki theatre is the second type (duh) and is totally different. This
<snip>

> Both of these styles really have to be experienced to be understood.

Like that's gonna happen anytime soon. ;)

Let me then, ask a follow-up question. Which of the two would more
likely be found as audio only recordings? I'm designing a character
that likes listening to "Japanese Opera" while working on her Bonsai
trees.

>
> Hope this helps!

Of course it does. :)

--
Iridios
--
God Is

Visit "The ShadowZone"
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10:34:00 PM/244:01:00 (1) [no thud]
Message no. 60
From: Aewyn labsyn@*********.com
Subject: Two questions
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:54:37 -0500
At 21:37 -0500 14/08/2000, Iridios enlightened us on the topic of Re: Two
questions:
>Aewyn wrote:


>So would it then simply translate to "Le Chauffeur"?

Yep. Or "la chauffeuse", if she's a woman.


Farewell,
Aewyn.
--------
There is only one absolute truth about life: it will end.
Reality's unreal.
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you"
-Nirvana
Message no. 61
From: acjpenn@******.com acjpenn@******.com
Subject: Two questions
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:43:48 -0500
> > Both of these styles really have to be experienced to be understood.
>
> Like that's gonna happen anytime soon. ;)

Depends on where you live, actually. I'm in St. Louis, and I can find
Japanese cultural events regularly. Also, we have a big Japanese
exhibition once a year. It's nice.

>
> Let me then, ask a follow-up question. Which of the two would more
> likely be found as audio only recordings? I'm designing a character
> that likes listening to "Japanese Opera" while working on her Bonsai
> trees.

Kabuki, definetly. Hmmm... considering how jarring Kabuki can be, you
might have her listen to music instead. Japanese flute music is
particularly beautifull..

just a stray thought.

LT
Message no. 62
From: Iridios iridios@********.net
Subject: Two questions
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 07:24:56 -0400
Aewyn wrote:

> >So would it then simply translate to "Le Chauffeur"?
>
> Yep. Or "la chauffeuse", if she's a woman.

The character is, in fact, a woman. :) Thanks, for the info.

--
Iridios
--
If you are reading this,
you are too close to your monitor.

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7:19:11 AM/61:01:00 (1) [no thud]
Message no. 63
From: Iridios iridios@********.net
Subject: Two questions
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 07:29:09 -0400
acjpenn@******.com wrote:
>
> > > Both of these styles really have to be experienced to be understood.
> >
> > Like that's gonna happen anytime soon. ;)
>
> Depends on where you live, actually. I'm in St. Louis, and I can find
> Japanese cultural events regularly. Also, we have a big Japanese
> exhibition once a year. It's nice.

Well, I'm in the boondocks of Pennsylvannia so I won't be seeing much
foreign culture except on the television screen. :/

> Kabuki, definetly. Hmmm... considering how jarring Kabuki can be, you
> might have her listen to music instead. Japanese flute music is
> particularly beautifull..

Thanks for the tip. I think I'll go for the flute music.

--
Iridios
--
Question _your own_ authority.

Visit "The ShadowZone"
http://members.xoom.com/Iridios/ShadowZone

Sig by Kookie Jar 5.97d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
7:24:11 AM/62:01:00 (1) [no thud]
Message no. 64
From: Sinabian@***.com Sinabian@***.com
Subject: Two questions
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:18:14 EDT
In a message dated 8/14/00 8:59:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
iridios@********.net writes:

<< Second question, to anyone. What is the official name of Japanese
style opera? Or it's closest counterpart. >>


Isn't that Kabuki theatre?
Message no. 65
From: scotthiller2050@*****.com (Christopher Hiller)
Subject: two questions:
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
Hi Guys, my 1st question is regarding magical
traditions in SR4: it says u can make up your own and
then gives guidelines to that. What Id like to do is
create a Heritage Magician tradition. The magician
would follow a heritage Mentor Spirit which would be
the embodiment of the characters own cultural
heritage. This is not like the Ancestor Spirits of
SR3, but is about the characters ancestral CULTURE. Or
combination there-of. A question I have is how do u
choose Adv and Disadv, and how do u choose the Favored
Environment? Also, how do u account for and determine
SURGE effects and their severity in the 4th Edition?



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Message no. 66
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: two questions:
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 10:43:08 +0100
According to Christopher Hiller, on 29-10-06 05:41 the word on the
street was...

> A question I have is how do u
> choose Adv and Disadv, and how do u choose the Favored
> Environment?

No offense, but didn't we already cover this? :)

> Also, how do u account for and determine
> SURGE effects and their severity in the 4th Edition?

I'd just try to convert them in a reasonable manner. Read what the SURGE
effect does in SR3, and then find or come up with an SR4 equivalent to
the game rules.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Executives can use it without reading manuals, which is sort
of our test of ease-of-use." --Steve Jobs
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 67
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: two questions:
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:02:14 -0800
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 10:43:08 +0100
Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> According to Christopher Hiller, on 29-10-06 05:41 the word on the street
> was...
>
> > A question I have is how do u
> > choose Adv and Disadv, and how do u choose the Favored
> > Environment?
>
> No offense, but didn't we already cover this? :)
>
> > Also, how do u account for and determine
> > SURGE effects and their severity in the 4th Edition?
>
> I'd just try to convert them in a reasonable manner. Read what the SURGE
> effect does in SR3, and then find or come up with an SR4 equivalent to the
> game rules.
>
And if you come up with something good, let us know!
--Anders
Message no. 68
From: scotthiller2050@*****.com (Christopher Hiller)
Subject: two questions:
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:14:27 -0800 (PST)
Sorry about the repeat, but for some reason, your replies have gone to Bulk Mail. I didn't
notice that until now.

Thanks for the help! :-)

-Scott

Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote: According to Christopher Hiller, on 29-10-06 05:41
the word on the
street was...

> A question I have is how do u
> choose Adv and Disadv, and how do u choose the Favored
> Environment?

No offense, but didn't we already cover this? :)

> Also, how do u account for and determine
> SURGE effects and their severity in the 4th Edition?

I'd just try to convert them in a reasonable manner. Read what the SURGE
effect does in SR3, and then find or come up with an SR4 equivalent to
the game rules.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Executives can use it without reading manuals, which is sort
of our test of ease-of-use." --Steve Jobs
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998



---------------------------------
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gurth@******.nl Mon Oct 30 08:58:59 2006
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:58:59 +0100
Subject: two questions:
In-Reply-To: <20061030051427.28777.qmail@********.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <20061030051427.28777.qmail@********.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4545BED3.7020402@******.nl>

According to Christopher Hiller, on 30-10-06 06:14 the word on the
street was...

> Sorry about the repeat, but for some reason, your replies have
> gone to Bulk Mail. I didn't notice that until now.

Probably because my address appears to be used for spam quite a bit :( I
even get plenty of it that I apparently sent myself ...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Executives can use it without reading manuals, which is sort
of our test of ease-of-use." --Steve Jobs
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 69
From: ClassifiedTSBBR@*****.net.nz (Classified TS/BBR)
Subject: two questions:
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:29:15 +1300
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
To: "Shadowrun Discussion" <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: two questions:


> According to Christopher Hiller, on 30-10-06 06:14 the word on the
> street was...
>
>> Sorry about the repeat, but for some reason, your replies have
>> gone to Bulk Mail. I didn't notice that until now.
>
> Probably because my address appears to be used for spam quite a bit :( I
> even get plenty of it that I apparently sent myself ...
>

That's what you get for being so famous... ;-p
Message no. 70
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: two questions:
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:54:30 +0100
According to Classified TS/BBR, on 30-10-06 20:29 the word on the street
was...

>> Probably because my address appears to be used for spam quite a bit :(
>> I even get plenty of it that I apparently sent myself ...
>
> That's what you get for being so famous... ;-p

Now, if only I could do something useful with that fame ... ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Executives can use it without reading manuals, which is sort
of our test of ease-of-use." --Steve Jobs
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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