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Message no. 1
From: Todd Olyowski <tolyowski@****.IBM.COM>
Subject: (U) Essence Arguments
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 04:50:29 EDT
From: Toddo
Subject: (U) Essence Arguments
On Monday Aug. 7, 1995 Rat writes:
>From the psychological perspective: there is plenty of evidence that
>people in general do not become psychotic due to any form of "shunning"
>There is no evidence that shows they do.

I'm not sure this is so true. I think some types of physical and
psychological abuse can lead to a type of "shunning". Either by friends
or family etc. This in turn could lead to psychological problems like
psychosys (sp) or multiple personalities etc.

>From the technological perspective: there is plenty of evidence that
>people in general do not behave psychotic due to any form of surgery
>or prostethic attachment, including various experiments attaching
>electrodes to the nervous system. There is no evidence that they
>do.

I agre with the first part of this but not the second. We cannot
forget that SRII takes place 61 yrs in the future. We can't compare
research done today with simple electrode system. To Tactical computers
being installed into human brains. In the first place this tactical
computer is going to be far faster and far more sophisticated than the
best of today's computers. So when you say nothing happens to the nervous
system when electrodes are attached to them. You cannot say that nothing
will happen to the nervous system when you attach faster and more
complicated than anything we will see for years to come. The concept of
cyberware in SRII is fictional and all the concepts in it cannot be
compared to the technology of today.
So there are going to be many different ideas of what essence is
our how it effects a player because there is not significant
documentation in SRII rulebooks to describe A) What essence really is.
B) How it effects the players mental state. I think right now GM's
should make there own conclusions on how to deal with a players essence
until more concrete info comes out.
Just my opinions.

tolyowski@****.ibm.com
v123qrrz@*****.cc.buffalo.edu
Message no. 2
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: (U) Essence Arguments
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 10:37:35 -0400
>>>>> "Todd" == Todd Olyowski <tolyowski@****.IBM.COM>
writes:

Todd> I'm not sure this is so true. I think some types of physical and
Todd> psychological abuse can lead to a type of "shunning". Either by
Todd> friends or family etc. This in turn could lead to psychological
Todd> problems like psychosys (sp) or multiple personalities etc.

Then why didn't all the Jews living in Germany during the first half of
the 1940's turn psychotic? What about the all the Irish in the US during
the Great Depression, or Blacks throughout US history? History is rife
with peoples as a whole who were shunned by the ruling classes, and you
don't see any of them as a whole turning psychotic in any form. The
concept as a game mechanic does not work because game mechanics affect
everyone and the phenomena described does quite obviously does not.

The moment you make an exception you disprove the rule.

>> From the technological perspective: there is plenty of evidence that
>> people in general do not behave psychotic due to any form of surgery
>> or prostethic attachment, including various experiments attaching
>> electrodes to the nervous system. There is no evidence that they do.

Todd> I agre with the first part of this but not the second. We
Todd> cannot forget that SRII takes place 61 yrs in the future.

So? Do you expect the fundamentals that make the body work to radically
change in 50 years?

Todd> We can't compare research done today with simple electrode system.
Todd> To Tactical computers being installed into human brains.

Sure we can. Everything we learn is based on something we already know.
An internal combustion engine operates via the same principles whether
it's built in 1905 or 1995. Integrated circuits will work via the same
principles in 2030 as they did in 1970.

Todd> In the first place this tactical computer is going to be far
Todd> faster and far more sophisticated than the best of today's
Todd> computers. So when you say nothing happens to the nervous system
Todd> when electrodes are attached to them. You cannot say that nothing
Todd> will happen to the nervous system when you attach faster and more
Todd> complicated than anything we will see for years to come.

It's still just electrical signals, just like the nervous system already
carries, just like the experiments we've made already. The nature of
those signals won't change regardless of the information they carry.

Todd> The concept of cyberware in SRII is fictional and all the concepts
Todd> in it cannot be compared to the technology of today.

Yes, it can, if you look for it. Take a look at some of the experiments
being conducted today and you'll find they're remarkably similar in
expected results to what you find in most cyberpunk literature.

Todd> So there are going to be many different ideas of what essence is
Todd> our how it effects a player because there is not significant
Todd> documentation in SRII rulebooks to describe A) What essence really
Todd> is. B) How it effects the players mental state.

I don't know about yours but my books quite clearly describe the
sympathetic nature of the physical and astral bodies.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.

Further Reading

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