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Message no. 1
From: Demosthenes Three <demosthenes_3@*****.COM>
Subject: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:49:13 -0700
If any of you read DC Comics' Legion of Superheroes, then you already
know what this is about.
Basically, Ultra Boy has all the powers of Superman, but he is limited
to only using one of them at a time.

For a Shadowrun twist to the idea, what about a street samurai that
has a TON of cyberware implanted in him, with the limitation that he
can only access one system?

Let's say that Corp X has developed a cross-redundant system of
cyberware. Let's call it CyberSuite7.
Basically they have managed to take Wired Reflexes 3, Muscle
Replacement 4, a Vehicle Control Rig 3, and maybe some headware, and
senseware gear, and wire the systems together into one compact,
semi-essence friendly package.
However the method that allowed this gear to all fit together,
(without cybermancy) only allows the user to power one system at a time.
If you use Wired 3, then you won't be able to access your Headware
Memory, or Skillwires, etc.

Hmmm ... tweaking this as I go, maybe the Muscle Replacement doesn't
really make sense as part of a suite. But IMO Wired Reflexes,
Skillwires, Headware Memory, and other nervous system mods could
theoretically be combined to use the same wiring, with the "One at a
Time" restriction.

Other twists - You could allow a user to access multiple systems with
a willpower roll, and then add in some overstress rules, ala, Rigger
2. Icky - I'd hate to see what happens when your wired reflexes
overheat! :)

This idea works rather well for physical adepts as well.

Demosthenes 3
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Message no. 2
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:08:48 -0600
Demosthenes Three wrote:
/
/ If any of you read DC Comics' Legion of Superheroes, then you already
/ know what this is about.
/ Basically, Ultra Boy has all the powers of Superman, but he is limited
/ to only using one of them at a time.
/
/ For a Shadowrun twist to the idea, what about a street samurai that
/ has a TON of cyberware implanted in him, with the limitation that he
/ can only access one system?
/
/ Let's say that Corp X has developed a cross-redundant system of
/ cyberware. Let's call it CyberSuite7.
/ Basically they have managed to take Wired Reflexes 3, Muscle
/ Replacement 4, a Vehicle Control Rig 3, and maybe some headware, and
/ senseware gear, and wire the systems together into one compact,
/ semi-essence friendly package.
/ However the method that allowed this gear to all fit together,
/ (without cybermancy) only allows the user to power one system at a time.
/ If you use Wired 3, then you won't be able to access your Headware
/ Memory, or Skillwires, etc.

While it would work well for a superhero game (in fact, I'll try it out
on my next Champion's character) I don't think it would go over well in
actual application in Shadowrun, at least not in my group.

In SR a Street Samurai is a Street Samurai, and a Rigger is a Rigger,
and so on. When it comes to combat the guy with Wired 3, combat
skills, and the guns is the one everyone relies on. When it comes to
driving the get-away car the guy with the VCR is in charge. If you
start allowing characters to stuff themselves full of cyberware and
abilities, you take away the need for teamwork. In combat the
character activates his wired reflexes and goes to town. Then if he
needs to fly the helicopter he turns on his VCR. Later on he needs to
surf the matrix so he switches to his implanted cyberdeck. He doesn't
*need* anyone else. And it won't take long before everyone starts
envying him (I've seen this happen before in a DC game gone bad).

If you've only got one player than it could work out fine. But if
you're GMing a group I wouldn't recommend allowing this option.

Just my two cents :)

-David
--
"If I told you, then I'd have to pull a Shadowrun against you. Sorry."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 3
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:26:29 -0500
David Buehrer wrote:

> While it would work well for a superhero game (in fact, I'll try it out
> on my next Champion's character) I don't think it would go over well in
> actual application in Shadowrun, at least not in my group.

hehehe I came up with the same idea. I love the superhero gerne almost
as much as the world of darkness and Shawdowrun. When I want to be
"Evil" nothing like playing (the Sabbat) a ruthless undead blood sucker.
But the same can be said for being a hero in the right (Champions,
Marvel heros) gerne. I play in wide range of games and gernes for this
reason. IMO it is rather silly to try and make a gaming system support
something it was not designed for.

<snip>
> If you've only got one player than it could work out fine. But if
> you're GMing a group I wouldn't recommend allowing this option.

This I agree with as I have done these types of runs and games. I don't
see a need for if you have more than a group of three people one of them
being the GM...
Message no. 4
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:37:16 -0500
On Wed, 20 May 1998 08:49:13 -0700 Demosthenes Three
<demosthenes_3@*****.COM> writes:
>If any of you read DC Comics' Legion of Superheroes, then you already
>know what this is about.
>Basically, Ultra Boy has all the powers of Superman, but he is limited
>to only using one of them at a time.

uh oh ... ;)

>For a Shadowrun twist to the idea, what about a street samurai that
>has a TON of cyberware implanted in him, with the limitation that he
>can only access one system?

oh ... phew ;)

>Let's say that Corp X has developed a cross-redundant system of
>cyberware. Let's call it CyberSuite7.
>Basically they have managed to take Wired Reflexes 3, Muscle
>Replacement 4, a Vehicle Control Rig 3, and maybe some headware, and
>senseware gear, and wire the systems together into one compact,
>semi-essence friendly package.
>However the method that allowed this gear to all fit together,
>(without cybermancy) only allows the user to power one system at a time.
>If you use Wired 3, then you won't be able to access your Headware
>Memory, or Skillwires, etc.
>
>Hmmm ... tweaking this as I go, maybe the Muscle Replacement doesn't
>really make sense as part of a suite. But IMO Wired Reflexes,
>Skillwires, Headware Memory, and other nervous system mods could
>theoretically be combined to use the same wiring, with the "One at a
>Time" restriction.

hmmm.... maybe ... BUT, you can't use VCR and wired reflexes at the same
time anyway so there's limitation there ... Headware memory, skillwires,
and wired reflexes would share to many systems in common (IMO) so you
couldn't really stack them like that to save on essence ... The only sys
they have in common (again, IMO) would be the power supply and that
wouldn't amount to much savings anywhere ... Where this idea might shine
is with cybereyes, cyberears, and cyberlimbs ... Examples:

Cybereye:
Has Thermo, Lowlight Vision, and Flare Comp but the implementation is
such that one interferes with the rest so, the user only uses one at a
time.

Cyberear:
Has Damper and Spatial Recognizer but has to turn off the Damper before
the Spatial Recognizer can be used.

Cyberarm:
Perhaps 2 or more devices could share one DNI link?

>Other twists - You could allow a user to access multiple systems with
>a willpower roll, and then add in some overstress rules, ala, Rigger
>2. Icky - I'd hate to see what happens when your wired reflexes
>overheat! :)

Suddenly your speed ain't so hot anymore? *Ducks*

>This idea works rather well for physical adepts as well.
>
>Demosthenes 3

Ooooo...I like it... Adept abilities purchased as exclusive ... I'd treat
this as a standard Geas...

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

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Message no. 5
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:42:47 EDT
Demosthenes Three wrote:
> / For a Shadowrun twist to the idea, what about a street samurai that
> / has a TON of cyberware implanted in him, with the limitation that he
> / can only access one system?

Which prompted David to opine:

> While it would work well for a superhero game (in fact, I'll try it out
> on my next Champion's character) I don't think it would go over well in
> actual application in Shadowrun, at least not in my group.
>
> In SR a Street Samurai is a Street Samurai, and a Rigger is a Rigger,
> and so on.

Aha. Inspiration particle encountered. How's about a limited form of physad
(physical adept adept? ::shrug::), can only use one ability at a time. Now, of
course, this could be cheesed by only GETTING one or two powers, but hey.

- Disney Shaman
Message no. 6
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:33:22 -0600
DisnyShamn wrote:
/
/ Demosthenes Three wrote:
/ > / For a Shadowrun twist to the idea, what about a street samurai that
/ > / has a TON of cyberware implanted in him, with the limitation that he
/ > / can only access one system?
/
/ Which prompted David to opine:
/
/ > While it would work well for a superhero game (in fact, I'll try it out
/ > on my next Champion's character) I don't think it would go over well in
/ > actual application in Shadowrun, at least not in my group.
/ >
/ > In SR a Street Samurai is a Street Samurai, and a Rigger is a Rigger,
/ > and so on.
/
/ Aha. Inspiration particle encountered. How's about a limited form of physad
/ (physical adept adept? ::shrug::), can only use one ability at a time. Now, of
/ course, this could be cheesed by only GETTING one or two powers, but hey.

I could see it. I'd add an addendum, in that it requires a complex
action to deactivate a power and another complex action to activate a
power

-David
--
"If I told you, then I'd have to pull a Shadowrun against you. Sorry."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 7
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:01:58 -0500
> Ultra Boy in Shadowrun (Demosthenes Three , Wed 10:49)
>
> If any of you read DC Comics' Legion of Superheroes, then you already
> know what this is about.

UM. Legion of Superhero's. OK (sound of crowbar being shoved into
raidly closing mind. OUCH). I'll keep an open mind. (Wince.) Really,
I will. (Creak, strain.)
[Actually, I like the CONCEPT a bit, but the execution gets sticky,
especially in cyber.]

> Basically, Ultra Boy has all the powers of Superman, but he is limited
> to only using one of them at a time.
>
> For a Shadowrun twist to the idea, what about a street samurai that
> has a TON of cyberware implanted in him, with the limitation that he
> can only access one system

Cyberware's essence cost is iregardless of its "acsessability". If you
have a wired 3 implant, and it gets damaged to the point where it does
you no good (happened to one of my characters), you can't just go out
and get a but load of new cyber- you have to get the wires removed, so
they are not costing you essence still. THEN you get the essence slot
filled.
Also, note that wires turned off with a reflex trigger do not stop
costing essence- in fact, the reflex trigger ADDS to the essence cost.

>
> Let's say that Corp X has developed a cross-redundant system of
> cyberware. Let's call it CyberSuite7.
> Basically they have managed to take Wired Reflexes 3, Muscle
> Replacement 4, a Vehicle Control Rig 3, and maybe some headware, and
> senseware gear, and wire the systems together into one compact,
> semi-essence friendly package.
> However the method that allowed this gear to all fit together,
> (without cybermancy) only allows the user to power one system at a time.
> If you use Wired 3, then you won't be able to access your Headware
> Memory, or Skillwires, etc.

As noted above, whether the system is powered or not has nothing to do
with essence cost. Less extreme (but still quite impressive) versions
of the above effects can be achieved with conventional cyber / bio
packages (maybe some alpha / betaware)- minus the "powerdown" effect,
which is of very dubious benefit or penalty.

> Hmmm ... tweaking this as I go, maybe the Muscle Replacement doesn't
> really make sense as part of a suite. But IMO Wired Reflexes,
> Skillwires, Headware Memory, and other nervous system mods could
> theoretically be combined to use the same wiring, with the "One at a
> Time" restriction.
>

Skillwires and wired reflexes are quite diffrent (and skillwires much
lower in essence cost anyhow), and memory is in a complete other
catagory of implants (headware VS bodyware). How would they be
combined?
Unfortunately, this just SMACKS of the "mudualar cyber" idea- the
effect is about the same, only better, as you don't actually have to
remove cyber moduals, they just "shut off". Decent concept, bad idea.

> Other twists - You could allow a user to access multiple systems with
> a willpower roll, and then add in some overstress rules, ala, Rigger
> 2. Icky - I'd hate to see what happens when your wired reflexes
> overheat! :)

The "overstress" idea would make more sense for a single piece of cyber
with variable levels of effect. Maybe something with the aproximate
cost of wired 2, that worked likewired 1,but could bejumped to level 2
at a +1 to all tn's, and to level 3, at a +2 to all Tn's. Similarly,
you could allow "rediculous" muscle / strength augmentation, with Damage
done to the user based only on stregth USED. Check Shadwotech's
attribute "biosystem overstess" rules (p 7) for a similar (non-variable
level) idea. This is not something I'd use, but it makes more sense in
the games structure and technology than one piece of cyber that does
multiple seprate things.

<Broad genrality from egotistical soapbox preacher>
Generally, introducing new cyber is kinda dicey, and I doubt you'll
ever hear overwhelming support for a new cyber ide from the list. This
is because cyber statsand types arethe only elements thatbalnce cyber
power, unlike ssy spells, which have the balancing element of drain (as
well as published guidlines for creation, unlike new cyber).
Even some FASA introduced implant items have a noticable tipping effect
(good or bad) when allowed broadly in a game- Bioware is one case in
point, Dermal sheathes and reflex enhancers being another (more subtle)
example. Certain "obvious" SOTA advances are just plain BAD as far as
playabel game balance goes. FASAisgood about not pushing published gear
TO far, but even that gear can be wrong for some types of campaign.
</BGFESP>

>
> This idea works rather well for physical adepts as well.

Yes, magic is a genrally a much better route for the entire concept.

As mentioned by another poster, you could put a geas of "exclusive use"
on an ability, reducing its cost to x.75 normal.

"Swiss army" adepts get just as abusable as the above
"VersaCyber"
package, but I've seen some ok rules for taking a good long time to use
meditation for changing your adept powers. They were written by Jolly
Roger (taz@*****.mit.edu), and are in the back of a net-book on physads
called "The really complete but still rather unoficial Physical Adepts
Handybook", which may or may not still be around. I've since seen
better rules for the samething on another Physad related web-page (check
the archive,under "magic", for "fixing physads", I think the link is
there). Basically, these later rules work better and have better
balanced costs.

This is a totally different aproach, but, in a pinch, I'd say you could
"un-spend" a point by risking a magic loss roll. If you make the roll,
you loose the power, but not the point, and can spend the point on
something else (limited to raising powers you have, to prevent 1-magic
physads or other adepts with free points from using any sense in the
bookwhen needed, and similar cracked-out antics). This would be an
exclusive, complex action for each part. Flub the roll, you loose the
power AND the point- nuts.
For a meditation rule, spend (magic) days meditating, roll vs TN 4 with
meditation skill, and each succes will add 1 to your "magic loss" roll
in the above test. You could then spend the freed point (assuming its
not lost) on any power you want (GM may restict ones you might not even
know exist), or save it for doing something else with later (maybe after
meditating to free more points to get a multi-point power, or boosting
an existing power on a moments notice with a complex action, as above).
Note that in our game, magic loss is not SO bad for adepts, since it
leaves a "magic slot" that acts as a cusion for essence loss. That way,
you can get implants of essence amount equal to lost magic, without
actually loosing more magic.

You might also consider going for a mage with some potent exclusive
spells, and the "concentration" magical edge. That way, you could cast
an exclusive spell, sustain it at a only +1 TN, and couldn't use any
other magic. It might not seem as impresive, but the versatilty could
be fun- you could get levitate (flying), x-ray vision, increase strength
+4, flame-thrower (heat ray)...
Unfortuantely, it would just make more sense to get some spell locks to
sustain the spells. If you were a SORCERY adept, though, you couln't
a-percieve and might not want the locks, so this would be pretty keen.
You could even eventualy take a geas of "exclusive magic" or "active
cyber turned off" for an intition ordeal, or if you lost magic / got
cyber, to keep with the theme.

-Mongoose X

Further Reading

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