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Message no. 1
From: Wage Mage wagemage@**.rr.com
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:07:05 -0500
This little flamewar is really sad. It's stupid drivel like this that
drove me off the list a few months ago. I rejoined hoping to get some
insights for my new game that I'm running. But this is just stupid. This
has nothing to do with Shadowrun. This is a spat over politics.

I have no allegiance to any of you people. I have respect for some, based
on intelligent SHADOWRUN RELATED responses to questions. I've even enjoyed
some lively debate over issues. This is stupid. It has nothing to do with
anything but lets see who has more pull and try to carve everyone on the
list into nice little pigeon holes. Well piss off! I'm not IN a faction. I
imagine a lot of people here aren't either.

Why do lurkers lurk? I did because there was nothing but trite bullshit on
the list. A bunch of in jokes, and goofy banter that had nothing to do with
why I joined. You want rambling rants on the politics of online communities
and social dynimics? Go take a class. Hasta la vista ShadowRN. I'll be at
Dumpshock where things are relevant.
Message no. 2
From: Augustus shadowrun@********.net
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:47:05 -0800
----- Original Message -----
From: Wage Mage <wagemage@**.rr.com>
>
> This little flamewar is really sad. It's stupid drivel like this that
> drove me off the list a few months ago.

Its really more of a difference of opinion people are expressing... not a
flame war... Some have their own opinion and others agree and others
disagree.

An example of a flame would be if I had responded to your message this way
instead:

<FLAME>
"flamewar?" People were just discussing their difference in opinion...
Just because the catchphrase "Flamewar" and "Flaming" exists, doesn't
mean
you have to go and apply it to every difference of opinion, <INSERT CURRENT
DEROGATORY NAME CALLING WORD HERE>.
</FLAME>
Message no. 3
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:35:24 +0100
According to Wage Mage, on Tue, 31 Oct 2000 the word on the street was...

> Why do lurkers lurk? I did because there was nothing but trite bullshit on
> the list. A bunch of in jokes, and goofy banter that had nothing to do with
> why I joined. You want rambling rants on the politics of online communities
> and social dynimics? Go take a class. Hasta la vista ShadowRN. I'll be at
> Dumpshock where things are relevant.

(Damn, how do you respond to posts like this...?)

ShadowRN has always been more than just Shadowrun-related talk -- having
been on it for longer than nearly all other current listmembers, I think I
can say that with some confidence. Over the years, it developed into a bit
of a community, and that automatically leads to in-jokes, cliches,
off-topic talk, and all sorts of other stuff mixed in with the Shadowrun
threads. If that's not what you came for, then I'm sorry, but that's the
way the list is... However, I have to admit that sometimes, the OT threads
become too common.

The recent thread that caused you to write that message, though, seems to
me to be something that we need to get out of our system. Some people
aren't happy with the way things are going, and they decide to bring it out
into the open rather than sit by silently (or unsubscribe). I think the
former is the better option, because it lets us all know that something's
up, and we can resolve it.

But the thread, and especially your post, has made me think thoughts I'd
rather not have... Chief among these are: 1. _Are_ we (the vocal minority
and old-timers) being elitist? and 2. Is ShadowRN still a fun place to be?

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe we are
certainly putting off newcomers -- not by conscious effort, but simply by
acting the way we've always done. If it's not intentional then it's not
elitist, but who cares about that distinction when the result is the same
-- or when it's _perceived_ as elitism?

Perhaps that (perceived?) elitism is also the reason why the list isn't as
much fun as it was back in '95 or so, at least for me personally (I can't
speak for anyone else), though it could also simply be that I've been on it
for too long. Certainly, if it was up to me, it'd be like then forever (but
at times I also wish it still was 1980 and early 1992, so don't pay too
much attention to my ramblings :) and as a result, we wouldn't even be
having this discussion because the things that caused it simply didn't play
back then. But it's not -- it's 31-10-2000, and the list has a problem that
needs to be resolved in order to make it a fun thing (place?) to be
subscribed to again. Unsubscribing and turning to the re-invented wheel
(AKA the DS forums) instead might work for you, but it won't for the list
as a whole. I have the feeling that if we play ostrich it'll only come back
worse later on...

And yes, this was a rambling rant on online communities and social
dynamics -- exactly the thing you didn't come here for. But it is also
a subject that is starting to trouble me more and more as I think about
it, and I want it to stop bothering me...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't let nobody stifle or bore you.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: Gordon McCormick gmcc@*********.ie
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:40:01 +0000
On Tue, Oct 31, 2000 at 07:35:24PM +0100, Gurth wrote:
>
> But the thread, and especially your post, has made me think thoughts I'd
> rather not have... Chief among these are: 1. _Are_ we (the vocal minority
> and old-timers) being elitist? and 2. Is ShadowRN still a fun place to be?
>
> The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe we are
> certainly putting off newcomers -- not by conscious effort, but simply by
> acting the way we've always done. If it's not intentional then it's not
> elitist, but who cares about that distinction when the result is the same
> -- or when it's _perceived_ as elitism?

I think you will find that perceived elitism anywhere, not just on
online communities. Going anywhere as a newbie you will encounter the
people who have been there a while and of *course* you'll get injokes
and the like. Wouldn't be fun if you didn't.

I've been sometimes reading, sometimes not reading shadowRN since,
er, 93? and I still feel like a newbie most of the time :) But it's
still a fun place to be, the only threads that I don't want to read
are rules threads since I don't use the shadowrun mechanics in my
shadowrun games, but that's just me.

Perhaps others feel different, but I still think ShadowRN is cool...

gordon
Message no. 5
From: Brother Justice brother_justice@*******.com
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:19:46 EST
>From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>To: shadowrn@*********.com
>CC: Wage Mage <wagemage@**.rr.com>
>Subject: Re: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:35:24 +0100
>
>According to Wage Mage, on Tue, 31 Oct 2000 the word on the street was...
>
> > Why do lurkers lurk? I did because there was nothing but trite bullshit
>on
> > the list. A bunch of in jokes, and goofy banter that had nothing to do
>with
> > why I joined. You want rambling rants on the politics of online
>communities
> > and social dynimics? Go take a class. Hasta la vista ShadowRN. I'll be
>at
> > Dumpshock where things are relevant.
>
>(Damn, how do you respond to posts like this...?)

Easily Gurth. Respond with a question of your own. Maybe something like
this. "Um...have you ever heard of keeping your melodrama on the stage and
out of my face?"

>ShadowRN has always been more than just Shadowrun-related talk -- having
>been on it for longer than nearly all other current listmembers, I think I
>can say that with some confidence. Over the years, it developed into a bit
>of a community, and that automatically leads to in-jokes, cliches,
>off-topic talk, and all sorts of other stuff mixed in with the Shadowrun
>threads. If that's not what you came for, then I'm sorry, but that's the
>way the list is...

But I don't know what he expects. EVERY COMMUNITY, online or othewise, is
also like that. So basically, I'm assuming that Wage Mage is a hermit, since
he doesn't like basic societal concepts.

>The recent thread that caused you to write that message, though, seems to
>me to be something that we need to get out of our system. Some people
>aren't happy with the way things are going, and they decide to bring it out
>into the open rather than sit by silently (or unsubscribe). I think the
>former is the better option, because it lets us all know that something's
>up, and we can resolve it.

And finally, I'm truly glad to see that someone is actually willing to try
and talk about it. I've only been a part of the online community between
here, Shadowland, DRF/DSF, and Bulldrek for about the last year and a half.
In that short time, I've seen this argument three times, this being the
fourth. And every time, the "solution" was to pack it away, because it might
lead to flamewars. How can we resolve anything or grow as a community unless
we take the chance that somewhere, someone's feelings might get hurt? If
they do, then they can feel properly welcomed to the real world. Anybody
know a way to force humanity to grow thicker skins, because that would
seriously help in these situations.

>Perhaps that (perceived?) elitism is also the reason why the list isn't as
>much fun as it was back in '95 or so, at least for me personally (I can't
>speak for anyone else), though it could also simply be that I've been on it
>for too long. But it's not -- it's 31-10-2000, and the list has a problem
>that
>needs to be resolved in order to make it a fun thing (place?) to be
>subscribed to again. Unsubscribing and turning to the re-invented wheel
>(AKA the DS forums) instead might work for you, but it won't for the list
>as a whole. I have the feeling that if we play ostrich it'll only come back
>worse later on...

And I have a feeling that you're right Gurth. So my question is this. If
these folks feel like the community is too "elitist" (though I disagree
strongly in most cases, though not all), why not do something about it,
instead of whining like small children? Unlike FASA, these folks are not
paid to do this. If you feel that you can do better, then go ahead and do
so. Some of us have. We didn't feel we fit in with some of the existing
places in the community. So we made our own. And frankly, it's not really as
difficult as most folks like to make it out to be. Back your statements up
with some substance for a change, instead of the same old rheotoric heard in
nearly every online community after a period of time. "The Veterans aren't
playing fair! They're elitists! Down with the Man!"
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Message no. 6
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:33:58 -0500
Note that the following is (of course) my opinion;
On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:35:24 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.nl> writes:
> ShadowRN has always been more than just Shadowrun-related talk --
> having
> been on it for longer than nearly all other current listmembers, I
> think I
> can say that with some confidence. Over the years, it developed into
> a bit
> of a community, and that automatically leads to in-jokes, cliches,
> off-topic talk, and all sorts of other stuff mixed in with the
> Shadowrun
> threads. If that's not what you came for, then I'm sorry, but that's
> the
> way the list is... However, I have to admit that sometimes, the OT
> threads
> become too common.
>

The in-joke's and such are a little too pervasive. The woodchuck thing
was fine in it's time, but now...it's just boring to me. I udnerstand how
it started, but it's really ...blah...
(that's articulate, nay? :-)
When a question/topic runs for a decent amount of time, someone
invariably draws in one of the in jokes, and the thread degerates into
such talk, excluding anyone that doesn't want to participate in such.


> But the thread, and especially your post, has made me think thoughts
> I'd
> rather not have... Chief among these are: 1. _Are_ we (the vocal
> minority
> and old-timers) being elitist? and 2. Is ShadowRN still a fun place
> to be?
>

I'm pretty time-open, so I read the list. I delete half the stuff that I
have no interest in (which is why I'd really like people to change topic
lines when topics change, but, that never seems to happen, and I lose
some decent discussions by that)
-but-
quite a few of the people that I talk with on AOL don't subscirbe to teh
list because of the "clique" the old-timers and freelancers that
perpetuate the in jokes and such.
I have nothing against any of you that have been on here since it was on
X server :-)
but I'm here to read/discuss shadowrun, and that seems to get tossed
aside.

While I'm at it, that's why I'm sporadic on the IRC channel. It's all
full of Wuffles and such, most times it has nothing to do with Shadowrun.
Occasionally Shadowrun shows up in a discussion, but it's more like
people hanging out and a random topic comes up.

While we're on teh topic of "elitism" though, I must bring up that
certain people DO use their position of FASAForeKnowledge to take on an
"I know something you don't know" tone. Dropping enigmatic little
snippets, such as "oh, if I could only comment here..."
It's not helpful.

> The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe we are
> certainly putting off newcomers -- not by conscious effort, but
> simply by
> acting the way we've always done. If it's not intentional then it's
> not
> elitist, but who cares about that distinction when the result is the
> same
> -- or when it's _perceived_ as elitism?
>
> Perhaps that (perceived?) elitism is also the reason why the list
> isn't as
> much fun as it was back in '95 or so, at least for me personally (I
> can't
> speak for anyone else), though it could also simply be that I've
> been on it
> for too long. Certainly, if it was up to me, it'd be like then
> forever (but
> at times I also wish it still was 1980 and early 1992, so don't pay
> too
> much attention to my ramblings :) and as a result, we wouldn't even
> be
> having this discussion because the things that caused it simply
> didn't play
> back then. But it's not -- it's 31-10-2000, and the list has a
> problem that
> needs to be resolved in order to make it a fun thing (place?) to be
> subscribed to again. Unsubscribing and turning to the re-invented
> wheel
> (AKA the DS forums) instead might work for you, but it won't for the
> list
> as a whole. I have the feeling that if we play ostrich it'll only
> come back
> worse later on...
>

I don't post much to teh DS forums, it's got a lower signal to noise
ratio than the list, or the AOL forums (which, have been really dry
lately)

I daresay though, that even though there ARE problems with the List, that
SR discussion as a whole also seems to be in a slump. (in the places that
I frequent on the internet)


> And yes, this was a rambling rant on online communities and social
> dynamics -- exactly the thing you didn't come here for. But it is
> also
> a subject that is starting to trouble me more and more as I think
> about
> it, and I want it to stop bothering me...
>
>

I play SR fairly regularly, and yet playing and GMing is only part of the
fun.
I like talking about SR, I like tossing around ideas and running them
into the ground.
<shrug> I just don't see as much of that on ShadowRN as when I first
signed on. (which, has only been a few years back now, but anyway...)


Vocenoctum
<http://members.xoom.com/vocenoctum>;

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Message no. 7
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@************.com
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:10:24 -0600
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 12:35 PM

>> Hasta la vista ShadowRN. I'll be at Dumpshock where things
>> are relevant.
>
> (Damn, how do you respond to posts like this...?)

I did it with laughter. Might just be me.

Of course, I was only laughing at the relevancy comment, not the theme of
the thread overall.
Message no. 8
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:36:36 +0100
According to vocenoctum@****.com, on Wed, 01 Nov 2000 the word on the street was...

> The in-joke's and such are a little too pervasive. The woodchuck thing
> was fine in it's time, but now...it's just boring to me. I udnerstand how
> it started, but it's really ...blah...
> (that's articulate, nay? :-)
> When a question/topic runs for a decent amount of time, someone
> invariably draws in one of the in jokes, and the thread degerates into
> such talk, excluding anyone that doesn't want to participate in such.

If we didn't have the occasional joke it'd be too dry, IMHO, but I also
agree that threads shouldn't devolve into being about nothing but the
same old joke.

> but I'm here to read/discuss shadowrun, and that seems to get tossed
> aside.

As someone said to me in a private reply to one of my posts on this
subject (I hope he doesn't mind me quoting it, as I think it's a very
good thought to keep in mind for this whole thread):

Shadowrun hasn't been moving much over the past few years, it's not
real exciting to talk about rulebooks all day, there's been little
interesting things coming from FASA to give us things to build from,
FASAs release schedule being so delayed means we've been theorizing
about the same old books for the last year or more, most of the
newer books being "factbooks" without all the rumours and innuendo
that made old SR products so interesting.

In other words, I think it might just well be Shadowruns fault, not
ShadowRNs.

> While I'm at it, that's why I'm sporadic on the IRC channel. It's all
> full of Wuffles and such, most times it has nothing to do with Shadowrun.
> Occasionally Shadowrun shows up in a discussion, but it's more like
> people hanging out and a random topic comes up.

I guess it's become somewhere you go when you want to chat to people who
have a common interest with you. Sort of like the way the occasional game
session of my group lasts 6 hours in which we actually play for maybe 30
minutes, and talk about all kinds of stuff for the rest of the time.

> While we're on teh topic of "elitism" though, I must bring up that
> certain people DO use their position of FASAForeKnowledge to take on an
> "I know something you don't know" tone. Dropping enigmatic little
> snippets, such as "oh, if I could only comment here..."
> It's not helpful.

It's also difficult to keep your mouth shut, but in the interest of
everyone I think it's best if that's exactly what those wo signed an NDA
should do.

> I daresay though, that even though there ARE problems with the List, that
> SR discussion as a whole also seems to be in a slump. (in the places that
> I frequent on the internet)

See what I quoted above...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The less of a life, the more mail you read.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:15:43 -0500
On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:36:36 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.nl> writes:
> As someone said to me in a private reply to one of my posts on this
> subject (I hope he doesn't mind me quoting it, as I think it's a
> very
> good thought to keep in mind for this whole thread):
>
> Shadowrun hasn't been moving much over the past few years, it's
> not
> real exciting to talk about rulebooks all day, there's been little
> interesting things coming from FASA to give us things to build
> from,
> FASAs release schedule being so delayed means we've been
> theorizing
> about the same old books for the last year or more, most of the
> newer books being "factbooks" without all the rumours and innuendo
> that made old SR products so interesting.
>
> In other words, I think it might just well be Shadowruns fault,
> not
> ShadowRNs.
>

Yeah, the dry spell has been pretty long.
I'd also go one further though, and bring up the "tone" of the In
Character books. It used to be a "legal" document that was hacked apart
by shadowrunners. You used to have 3-4 different viewpoints. (this is
besides the Shadowtalk in the item descriptions)

Now, it's a shadowrunner laying out the details of X, then you have a few
runners agreeing, or someone disagreeing that you generally understand to
be a nut-job. It's become more of "one mind" than it used to be. (this is
a general feeling I've gotten with it, not a universal decree obviously)

> > While I'm at it, that's why I'm sporadic on the IRC channel. It's
> all
> > full of Wuffles and such, most times it has nothing to do with
> Shadowrun.
> > Occasionally Shadowrun shows up in a discussion, but it's more
> like
> > people hanging out and a random topic comes up.
>
> I guess it's become somewhere you go when you want to chat to people
> who
> have a common interest with you. Sort of like the way the occasional
> game
> session of my group lasts 6 hours in which we actually play for
> maybe 30
> minutes, and talk about all kinds of stuff for the rest of the time.
>

Sure, the weekly chat on AOL is only half shadowrun, but it's half :-)
When we finish the games I'm in, we all hang out and chat until something
calls us away (even if that something is to sleep finally)
But, on the IRC channel, Shadowrun tends to get "resolved" as quickly as
possible, like it's the interupption. As I said before, it's more like
the people want to answer the question and move on. Even if they're
simply "moving on" to an hour of silence :-)


> > While we're on teh topic of "elitism" though, I must bring up that
> > certain people DO use their position of FASAForeKnowledge to take
> on an
> > "I know something you don't know" tone. Dropping enigmatic little
> > snippets, such as "oh, if I could only comment here..."
> > It's not helpful.
>
> It's also difficult to keep your mouth shut, but in the interest of
> everyone I think it's best if that's exactly what those wo signed an
> NDA
> should do.
>

I agree, and the only stuff I post is stuff that is either asked to be
forwarded (the SOTA discussion for instance) or stuff that is publicly
posted to a message board (such as the occasional release schedule
FASInfo/Randall Bills gives)
Course, I think Release schedules shouldn't be published besides a few
months ahead, it's just asking for disappointment.

Vocenoctum
<http://members.xoom.com/vocenoctum>;

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Message no. 10
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 18:39:31 GMT
>From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
>And yes, this was a rambling rant on online communities and social
>dynamics -- exactly the thing you didn't come here for. But it is also
>a subject that is starting to trouble me more and more as I think about
>it, and I want it to stop bothering me...

I don't think there's that much of an overhall to be done; established list
members do tend to get all teratorial when newbies come along or give
patronising responces. I guess we should just be a little less intimidating
and judgemental; when someone on the list attacks you you do feel as if
everyone lese is behind them and that feeling does inspire people to leave.

As for the list going through a downtime of late, I guess we're just all
getting bored of the old faces; its a lot easier to reply to a thread than
start one and there aren't enough new people around posing questions.

So I guess what we need is new list members bursting with ideas, and to bear
in mind that we should make them feel welcome without talking down to them.
Or, how about some of you lurkers post any and all questions you were too
ashamed to ask, becuase most of us are pretty burnt out in that deaprtment.

Phil

Dying is an art like everything else.
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Message no. 11
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 18:50:48 GMT
>From: Gordon McCormick <gmcc@*********.ie>
>I've been sometimes reading, sometimes not reading shadowRN since,
>er, 93? and I still feel like a newbie most of the time :) But it's
>still a fun place to be, the only threads that I don't want to read
>are rules threads since I don't use the shadowrun mechanics in my
>shadowrun games, but that's just me.
>
>Perhaps others feel different, but I still think ShadowRN is cool...

I'll second that; there are topics that I couldn't care less about and there
are days when a mountain of e-mail feels like a chore. But here I am
amongst friends, we have fun, we talk SR mostly by other topics are cool and
we all want to be here. If this was just about SR I would have got bored by
now.

Phil

Dying is an art like everything else.
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Message no. 12
From: Peter Mikulsky PeterMikulsky@********.de
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 21:43:40 +0100
Phil Smith wrote:
>
> I don't think there's that much of an overhall to be done; established
list
> members do tend to get all teratorial when newbies come along or give
> patronising responces. I guess we should just be a little less
intimidating
> and judgemental; when someone on the list attacks you you do feel as if
> everyone lese is behind them and that feeling does inspire people to
leave.

I don't think so. Most newbies are frendly greeted here when they post their
first "hello, I am new to this list". Writing a message to express your
opinion is more difficult than in an face-to-face discussion. So it is very
easy to offend someone without meaning it and most of time you will not see
your mistake by yourself.

> As for the list going through a downtime of late, I guess we're just all
> getting bored of the old faces; its a lot easier to reply to a thread than
> start one and there aren't enough new people around posing questions.

How do you define new people? I joined the list two years ago or so but did
not post often. So I am still new?? ;-)

>
> So I guess what we need is new list members bursting with ideas, and to
bear
> in mind that we should make them feel welcome without talking down to
them.
> Or, how about some of you lurkers post any and all questions you were too
> ashamed to ask, becuase most of us are pretty burnt out in that
deaprtment.

My guess is that most lurkers want to seek information about SR products and
our opinion about them. Other starts question after a new book was
released....
Some maybe ashamed to ask question because English is nor their native
language - I am from Germany - and have problems to express their questions
and I know several player hwo avoid english at (almost) all costs.
If I have a good idea I will post it here.

Peter
Message no. 13
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 19:51:45 -0800 (PST)
<snipt!(TM)>
> If we didn't have the occasional joke it'd be too
dry, IMHO, but I also agree that threads shouldn't
devolve into being about nothing but the same old
joke.
<snipt!(TM)>
> Gurth@******.nl -

Gee, Gurth, are you saying you want me to go away?

Don't you like me anymore? :(

*Doc' sobs pitifully and goes to hide under Gurth's stairs...*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 14
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun?
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:27:41 +0100
According to Rand Ratinac, on Thu, 02 Nov 2000 the word on the street was...

> > If we didn't have the occasional joke it'd be too
> >dry, IMHO, but I also agree that threads shouldn't
> >devolve into being about nothing but the same old
> >joke.
>
> Gee, Gurth, are you saying you want me to go away?

I didn't have anyone particular in mind, but to be honest, you _are_ one
of the people who keeps the same old jokes alive far longer than they
continue to be funny...

> Don't you like me anymore? :(

Did I ever? ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The less of a life, the more mail you read.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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