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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Wagemage wagemage@**.rr.com
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun? (part 2)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 19:40:51 -0500
-----Original Message-----
<A bunch of them>

Alright I suppose I spoke too quickly. Perhaps I overestimated the problem,
or miscategorized it. For that I'm sorry. I was REALLY irritated at the
whole discussion of societal groups, which I found condecending and
irrelevant.

For all those who made newbie references, I've been on the list under
various names for about 4 years now. I'm not a newbie complaining about not
getting things. I merely mentioned in-jokes as an example of the problem.

The list has always required a good bit of filtering for useful
information, that's understandable of any forum. DSF requires a bit also,
just not as much.

My problem more specifically is the near lack of useful threads left on
the list. Perhaps this COMES from the alienation of newbies, I don't know. I
remember getting quite a few run ideas off the list, very cool stuff. I
remember having spirited discussions with Gurth on the topic of firearms,
and learned much. I even remember the birth of an in joke or two. All that
has seemed to wane in recent years. I unsubscribed for a while when the
noise got too high. I read different topics depending on my mood and my
needs at the time. The point there is that there were enough discussions on
enough different SR realted topics for me to be able to, and at times HAVE
to decide what to read and what to let slip by.

Someone mentioned SR slowing down a bit in recent years. I disagree.
Perhaps the book schedule slowed a bit, but SR itself is still as lively as
ever. Go over to DSF if you disagree. There are people posting constantly
with ideas for runs, questions about rules, stories about humorous or
enjoyable runs "and much much more!". The thing is SR hasn't slowed, this
list has.

In the weeks leading up to halloween, how many discussions about scaring
your players, about horror runs, about anything even vaguely halloweenish
came up? I didn't see any. At DSF? Off the top of my head I can think of
about 4 topics with about 200 posts total. Isn't swapping war stories part
of what this community is about? I thought so.

So for those who think SR has slowed, I counter with this. It hasn't,
you (plural) have. This list has become so much of a community that it is
forgetting or has forgot what the community organized arond to begin with.
Maybe all the posters have already heard all the war stories they have to
share with each other. Then it's time to get some new blood. It's out there,
I've seen it. Lets hear their stories. Let's hear what the new players and
GMs ae doing with this world we all love. It's kinda creepy to think this
but it sounds like the world in general. The older we get the less we do (in
most cases). The world is shaped by the young.

I know this isn't entirely true, I assume most of you folks are still
playing. What happened last week? What happened last year? I want to hear
all this stuff, even if I've heard it before, it was good then it's good
now.

On eliteism: So what? So some people know more about what's going on at
Fasa than others. So what? How many people's games are 100% cannon anyway?
We should be happy to have people with connections at Fasa on the list so
that our voice counts for something. They can take it to Fasa with them. And
if you're just bitter about not having those connections yourself, well
that's just childish, and you won't ever get them by going to war against
those who do.

Let's remember what we're here for. If we don't let's declare it! Come
on people. I don't WANT to leave. I just want to absorb all the SR material
(cannon or no) that I can for MY game. I don't think I'm alone in this.

Sorry for the long post.

-Wagemage
Message no. 2
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun? (part 2)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 21:52:07 -0500
From: "Wagemage" <wagemage@**.rr.com>
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun? (part 2)


<SNIP!> Let's remember what we're here for. If we don't let's declare
it! Come
> on people. I don't WANT to leave. I just want to absorb all the SR
material
> (cannon or no) that I can for MY game. I don't think I'm alone in this.
>
> Sorry for the long post.

Never apologize for a post that strikes far more true and more clearly than
those that have come before it.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
Hoosier Hacker House (www.hoosierhackerhouse.com)
THREEH.COM (www.threeh.com)
Message no. 3
From: Adam J adamj@*********.com
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun? (part 2)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:58:58 -0700
At 19:40 02/11/2000 -0500, Wagemage wrote:

>Alright I suppose I spoke too quickly. Perhaps I overestimated the problem,
>or miscategorized it. For that I'm sorry. I was REALLY irritated at the
>whole discussion of societal groups, which I found condecending and
>irrelevant.

I hope you don't also find this condescending, but if you find that some
posters and their posting styles regularly annoy you, the killfile/filter
function of most email clients can be most useful. I've done this in the
past with people who regularly make posts that I generally don't find
useful. It's not a perfect solution due to people replying to posts they've
made, but it's at least a partial solution.

(BTW, for any of those are thinking "Adam isn't doing his job!", my
killfiles are configured so I do see private emails from those people, and
I'm of course still able to read the list logs if I need to.)

> Someone mentioned SR slowing down a bit in recent years. I disagree.
>Perhaps the book schedule slowed a bit, but SR itself is still as lively as
>ever. Go over to DSF if you disagree. There are people posting constantly
>with ideas for runs, questions about rules, stories about humorous or
>enjoyable runs "and much much more!". The thing is SR hasn't slowed, this
>list has.

Well, as I pointed out earlier.. more and more stuff is turning over to the
web. Most people think it's cooler and faster to use, and in some ways I
agree with them. I'm sure that some of the more casual readers/posters on
RN left when the Forums became big. For the average person it's easier to
wade into the forums when they need a question answered, and they do offer
some advantages - you can read/post from the same account from multiple
computers, which is handy for people with internet access at both work and
home, or university students that use public labs.

The Shadowrun Online Community and the resources they have available has/is
being diluted and expanded somewhat. That's not good or bad - it's both,
but it's a simple fact.

> On eliteism: So what? So some people know more about what's going on at
>Fasa than others. So what? How many people's games are 100% cannon anyway?
>We should be happy to have people with connections at Fasa on the list so
>that our voice counts for something. They can take it to Fasa with them.

Please, let me point out that although I know it does seem futile at times,
talking to FASA directly is much better than letting others do it for you.
I don't know about the other freelancers, but I generally don't talk to
Mike/Rob about anything but my own opinions and ideas. With the number of
people that will scream "You stole that!" in a heartbeat nowadays, I'm sure
that you'll understand why this is.

Adam
--
< The Shadowrun Supplemental? ShadowFAQ? Full Count? >
< Latest news about them all: http://staff.dumpshock.com/adamj/ >
< adamj@*********.com | ICQ# 2350330 | TSS Productions >
Message no. 4
From: Brother Justice brother_justice@*******.com
Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun? (part 2)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 23:37:22 EST
>From: "NeoJudas" <neojudas@******************.com>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
>Subject: Re: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun? (part 2)
>Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 21:52:07 -0500
>
>From: "Wagemage" <wagemage@**.rr.com>
>Subject: Um, anyone heard of Shadowrun? (part 2)
>
>
><SNIP!> Let's remember what we're here for. If we don't let's declare
>it! Come
> > on people. I don't WANT to leave. I just want to absorb all the SR
>material
> > (cannon or no) that I can for MY game. I don't think I'm alone in this.
> >
> > Sorry for the long post.
>
>Never apologize for a post that strikes far more true and more clearly than
>those that have come before it.
>
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
>Hoosier Hacker House (www.hoosierhackerhouse.com)
>THREEH.COM (www.threeh.com)


What he said. Very nicely put WageMage. What you said had a great deal of
merit.

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.