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Message no. 1
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Unarmed Combat specialization (was: Re: shapeshifter pc)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 12:00:19 +0100
Gurth wrote in his infinite (Dutch) wisdom:
> A specialization for the critter's specific "style" of combat I'm not sure
> I'd allow, since specializations in Unarmed Combat really don't have
> drawbacks -- they just add an extra die. Compare it to specializations in,
> for example, Pistols: with Pistols (Colt American) you're at a definite
> disadvantage when using a pistol other than a Colt American, but in
> Unarmed Combat there's never really a situation where you can't use the
> specialization, except if you choose to do so yourself (like taking
> Unarmed Combat (Boxing) and then announcing to the GM you'll kick your
> opponent).
>

I think there's a definite drawback with some styles of unarmed combat that
you don't create yourself. For instance if a runner with Unarmed Combat
(Boxing) would be caught on the ground with an opponent with Unarmed Combat
(Wrestling), I would rule he wouldn't be able to use his Boxing skill to
full extent.

If you would have a different (broader,...superior :) form of fighting, like
Wu Shu Kung Fu, then you would be right in saying that it would be
applicable in all situations.

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is,..."
- John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 2
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Unarmed Combat specialization (was: Re: shapeshifter pc)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 19:36:04 +0100
According to Dennis Steinmeijer, at 12:00 on 2 Nov 99, the word on
the street was...

> I think there's a definite drawback with some styles of unarmed combat that
> you don't create yourself. For instance if a runner with Unarmed Combat
> (Boxing) would be caught on the ground with an opponent with Unarmed Combat
> (Wrestling), I would rule he wouldn't be able to use his Boxing skill to
> full extent.

True, but it's not a situation I find my PCs in very often. Most of the
time (99.9%, I guess) Unarmed Combat use is two or more people beating
each other up, in which case different specualizations won't make much
difference except for the number of dice rolled.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Remember that all the items in the equipment lists are obviously
not available anywhere." --Gemini RPG, p. 100
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: Unarmed Combat specialization (was: Re: shapeshifter pc)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:08:40 -0500 (EST)
On Tue, 2 Nov 1999, Gurth wrote:

> > I think there's a definite drawback with some styles of unarmed
> > combat that you don't create yourself.

[SNIP]

> True, but it's not a situation I find my PCs in very often. Most of the
> time (99.9%, I guess) Unarmed Combat use is two or more people beating
> each other up, in which case different specializations won't make much
> difference except for the number of dice rolled.

Really? My players get into all sorts of situations like this.
The last melee combat that happened in my campaign (just last session, in
fact), saw one of the sammies in a down-and-dirty wrestling match on a
sidewalk in Saigon, as he and an Oni with a hard-on to kill him rolled
around making a mess. The samurai had a pistol in hand, and was trying to
get into a position where he could just get a shot off, and the Oni was
trying to control the gun to keep from getting shot while simultaneously
doing his best to put his cyberspur through the sammy's left ear. The Oni
had a considerable Judo skill, whereas the samurai was specialized in
Kenpo. Care to guess who rolled more dice on the ground?
It was a truly classic scene, and one where the difference in
specializations made a sizeable difference in the number of dice rolled.
Make no mistake - the number of dice rolled can have a pretty extreme
effect on how the combat turns out. When you factor in Combat Pool, the
difference can effectively be doubled in a lot of cases. Rolling like 4
extra dice or so can be the difference between giving someone a little
love-tap and totally laying them out.

Marc
Message no. 4
From: 00DNA mcmanus@******.albany.edu
Subject: Unarmed Combat specialization (was: Re: shapeshifter pc)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 14:18:23 -0500
>According to Dennis Steinmeijer, at 12:00 on 2 Nov 99, the word on
>the street was...
>
> > I think there's a definite drawback with some styles of unarmed combat that
> > you don't create yourself. For instance if a runner with Unarmed Combat
> > (Boxing) would be caught on the ground with an opponent with Unarmed Combat
> > (Wrestling), I would rule he wouldn't be able to use his Boxing skill to
> > full extent.

At 07:36 PM 11/2/99 +0100, Gurth wrote:

>True, but it's not a situation I find my PCs in very often. Most of the
>time (99.9%, I guess) Unarmed Combat use is two or more people beating
>each other up, in which case different specualizations won't make much
>difference except for the number of dice rolled.

Yeah, I don't think the Melee system in SR works well with different styles
of fighting. It is by nature a loose open system, it's not detailed down
to punches and kicks and movements. I've found even if I know the
advantages and disadvantages of a particular style of fighting that the
Unarmed Combat system in SR won't work with it well.
What I allow is that some of my players just say they know some sort of
fighting style...and then they use their Unarmed Combat, the martial arts
or whatever is just for role-playing. Or I allow them to specialize into
Offensive type or Defensive type. Offensive you roll when attacking and
Defensive you roll for countering an attack. That has worked out well for
my groups.

--00DNA
"...user connection terminated."
Message no. 5
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Unarmed Combat specialization (was: Re: shapeshifter pc)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 10:02:23 +0100
According to 00DNA, at 14:18 on 2 Nov 99, the word on the street was...

> Or I allow them to specialize into Offensive type or Defensive type.
> Offensive you roll when attacking and Defensive you roll for countering
> an attack. That has worked out well for my groups.

You may actually have the solution to Unarmed Combat specializations
there... Offensive or Defensive, instead of specializing in martial arts
styles, as SR3 would have us do, will make a difference in the game even
without the characters getting into "special" situations like wrestling on
the ground.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Destiny is a state of mind
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Unarmed Combat specialization (was: Re: shapeshifter pc)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 22:51:59 +1100
At 10:02 3/11/99 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>According to 00DNA, at 14:18 on 2 Nov 99, the word on the street was...
> > Or I allow them to specialize into Offensive type or Defensive type.
> > Offensive you roll when attacking and Defensive you roll for countering
> > an attack. That has worked out well for my groups.
>
>You may actually have the solution to Unarmed Combat specializations
>there... Offensive or Defensive, instead of specializing in martial arts
>styles, as SR3 would have us do, will make a difference in the game even
>without the characters getting into "special" situations like wrestling on
>the ground.

This is similar to what I do. The various Unarmed specializations/martial
arts are colorful in the role playing but only manifest in the dice rolling
through a simple +1 penalty on either the attack, counter-attack or dodge
roles. If the player wants to avoid his specializations's penalty, he must
use his base Unarmed skill.


Chris

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