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Message no. 1
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Unconcious
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:03:00 +0000
If a mage goes unconcious is there a risk of losing control of a
spirit or elemental? I think I've read something about that
somewhere... but I don't remember and I can't find anything about it.
*wave*

Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
Message no. 2
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Unconcious
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:30:31 EDT
On Tue, 6 May 1997 18:03:00 +0000 Shane Courtrille
<hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA> writes:
>If a mage goes unconcious is there a risk of losing control of a
>spirit or elemental? I think I've read something about that
>somewhere... but I don't remember and I can't find anything about it.

Yeah, the Elemental has to roll a willpower (or an intellegence) test to
see if it will attack the unconcious mage. If it succeeds, it sees an
opening to become free, and goes after the downed magician with full
force. If it fails, then it just goes away, and the mage/shaman loses
it. I think that this is in SRII, or the Grimmy. I can't remember
which.


----------
The useless fact of the day is:
The word "girl" appears in the Bible only once.
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Unconcious
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:31 +0100
Shane Courtrille said on 18:03/ 6 May 97...

> If a mage goes unconcious is there a risk of losing control of a
> spirit or elemental? I think I've read something about that
> somewhere... but I don't remember and I can't find anything about it.

This rule applies only to allies, see page 72 of the Grimoire -- an ally
whose Force exceeds the magician's Charisma may attempt to go free
whenever the magician is unconscious from wounds, fatigue, Drain, etc.
Otherwise, it may only try this when the magician is dying (has physical
overflow).

Evil GMs take note: sleeping could be interpreted as unconsciousness...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've got to go there and find it, my friend.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 4
From: Tuvyah@***.COM
Subject: Re: Unconcious
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:30:51 -0400
Shane Courtrille wrote:

>>If a mage goes unconcious is there a risk of losing control of a
>>spirit or elemental? I think I've read something about that
somewhere... but I don't remember and I can't find anything >>about it.

And Gurth wrote:
>>This rule applies only to allies, see page 72 of the Grimoire -- an ally
>>whose Force exceeds the magician's Charisma may attempt to go free
>>whenever the magician is unconscious from wounds, fatigue, Drain, etc.
>>Otherwise, it may only try this when the magician is dying (has physical
overflow).

P. 139 of the SRII manual: "If the drain knocks the shaman unconscious, the
spirit departs."

And p. 140 of the SRII manual: "If drain knocks the mage unconscious, the
spirit escapes free and uncontrolled."

Ah, clarity :-)

-- Smilin' Ted

"...who knows why he's smilin'."
Message no. 5
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Unconcious
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:58:42 EDT
On Wed, 7 May 1997 11:30:51 -0400 Tuvyah@***.COM writes:
>Shane Courtrille wrote:
>
>>>If a mage goes unconcious is there a risk of losing control of a
>>>spirit or elemental? I think I've read something about that
>somewhere... but I don't remember and I can't find anything >>about
>it.
>
>And Gurth wrote:
>>>This rule applies only to allies, see page 72 of the Grimoire -- an
ally
>>>whose Force exceeds the magician's Charisma may attempt to go free
>>>whenever the magician is unconscious from wounds, fatigue, Drain, etc.
>>>Otherwise, it may only try this when the magician is dying (has
physical overflow).
>
>P. 139 of the SRII manual: "If the drain knocks the shaman unconscious,
the
>spirit departs."
>
>And p. 140 of the SRII manual: "If drain knocks the mage unconscious,
the
>spirit escapes free and uncontrolled."

Don't those sections refer to SUMMONING the spirit? I think the original
question was just about general usage.

Joe Mage has his elemental floating around frying the strike team when he
goes down from the big (are there any other kinds?) troll with the club
(stun damage... the troll was holding back). What happens to the
elemental now?

~Tim
Message no. 6
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Unconcious
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:40:45 -0400
>-- Smilin' Ted
>
>"...who knows why he's smilin'."

When did you sneak on the list? I recall we shared a crusade for
game balance on r.g.f.c. but I don't recall you posting here before.
Either way welcome to the list.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 7
From: Tuvyah@***.COM
Subject: Re: Unconcious
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 02:40:54 -0400
z-i-m@****.COM (Tim P Cooper) wrote:

>> >And p. 140 of the SRII manual: "If drain knocks the mage unconscious,
the
> >spirit escapes free and uncontrolled."

>Don't those sections refer to SUMMONING the spirit? I think the original
>question was just about general usage.

Hrrrnnnn....my bad. Apologies.

>Joe Mage has his elemental floating around frying the strike team when he
>goes down from the big (are there any other kinds?) troll with the club
>(stun damage... the troll was holding back). What happens to the elemental
now?

>~Tim

Having returned to the Big Black Bible, it seems to me that the elemental
completes its service (trying to fry opponents) and then just hangs around,
waiting for the dismissal from the unconscious mage. (P. 141 "If not ordered
away, an elemental will simply hang around, being noticeable in physical and
astral space.")

IMHO an elemental or nature spirit, once summoned, is committed to give the
magician however many services the magician "won" in the summoning. The
battle for control takes place during the summoning, and the magician has
won. If the magician gets knocked out, the spirit completes whatever the
magician told it to do, waits around for further orders, and disappears once
its term of service is up. An ally is different because its relationship to
the magician is continuous, and not defined by discrete "services".

The situation hasn't come up in our game yet (the spirits have always been
trashed by the time the magicians catch the heavy end of the bat....)

My opinion, anyway. (Why do I have the sensation of walking out into the deep
end of the pool? Please be gentle.....)

--Smilin' Ted
"....who knows why he's smilin'."
Message no. 8
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Unconcious
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:33:18 +0100
|
|>-- Smilin' Ted
|>
|>"...who knows why he's smilin'."
|
| When did you sneak on the list? I recall we shared a crusade for
|game balance on r.g.f.c. but I don't recall you posting here before.
|Either way welcome to the list.

HEY!
That's Bulls job!

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Unconcious
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:46:56 +1000
At 22:58 7/05/97 EDT, Tim P Cooper wrote:

>>And p. 140 of the SRII manual: "If drain knocks the mage unconscious,
>the
>>spirit escapes free and uncontrolled."
>
>Don't those sections refer to SUMMONING the spirit? I think the original
>question was just about general usage.
>
>Joe Mage has his elemental floating around frying the strike team when he
>goes down from the big (are there any other kinds?) troll with the club
>(stun damage... the troll was holding back). What happens to the
>elemental now?

I agree. I believe those paragraphs only refer to the consequence of losing
consciousness while in the process of summoning, of establishing control
over the spirit. They say nothing about losing consciousness long after the
spirit is firmly under the control of the magician.

Therefore my group has a (surprise) house rule on the topic. We decided
spirits only have a chance of going unbound if the magician has taken
deadly physical damage (unconscious from stun and normal sleep are too
similar to allow unconsciousness as a condition). In this case, the spirit
makes an unopposed test of its force versus the magician's charisma
attribute or conjuring skill, which ever is higher. Only one success is
needed for the spirit to go unbound. (This makes it easier for an elemental
or nature spirit to go unbound as compared to the test for an ally to go
free but we felt that normal spirits are far less tightly bound to a
magician than allies.) We have had occasions where one of our magicians
suffered not only the loss of a magic point but also all his elementals
(=drekloads of ¥). Not a very happy chummer.

Chris

_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.

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