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Message no. 1
From: scotthiller2002@*****.com (Scott Hiller)
Subject: Uncontained Chicago
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 21:18:34 -0800 (PST)
Just some guesses on my part (so please confirm or
correct), but I assume the vigilate gangs in Chicago
OUTSIDE the CZ would effectively take the place of the
positions along the wall left vacant by Ares, the
Illinois National Guard troops and the UCAS Army
troops. I figure the UCAS military patrols the parts
of the city outside the containment zone as well, but
don't know exactly HOW that would affect the upper
class neighborhoods like Elmhurst on the Westside.

Also, how would the neighborhoods outside the CZ have
been affected by the events in Chicago besides the
floods of refugees and the vigilante attacks on CZ
refugees?

And places like Aurora, Naperville (absorbed into the
Westside of Chicago, I believe), Elgin, the Fox River
Valley communities of St. Charles, Batavia, and
Geneva, Schaumburg, as well as the communities of NW
Indiana (Gary, Hammond, Hobart, Merrillville, Portage,
Whiting, East Chicago), Kankakee, Rockford and SE
Wisconsin .... how would they have been affected by
the events in Chicago? ... Besides possibly being new
locales for gangs and crime syndicates? Could they
possibly be new locales for the megacorporations that
had offices in the City? Could these places be
hard-core military outposts? Could the Astral Space
Preservation Societies of Chicago have their HQ's
here? Certainly, the communities here may have formed
vigilante gangs to keep the denizens of the CZ IN and
smuggling rings to do shadow biz for weapons, etc. to
help defend against the refugees in the CZ. But what
would the upper class residents of these areas do?
Would their lives be disrupted by the sudden lack of
corporate presence in the 'plex? WOULD there be a lack
of corporate presence? Or (again) could the megas have
relocated to the periphery of the Sprawl? Would the
corps work with the UCAS military to protect Chicago
interests and to re-gain their dominance in the CZ
side of the Sprawl, wrestling it from the clutches of
the war lords, the gangs, the insect spirits, and the
crazies inside the CZ?

WILL the government and the megacorps use the CZ as a
prison? How would they guard it? Surly that would put
a crimp in the smuggling biz.

Also, there must be groups in the Sprawl outside the
CZ who want the refugees liberated, and these groups
wouldn't necessarily have to belong to any of the bug
cults. And would any of the Awakened organizations in
the UCAS (like IOND, DIMR, or the Draco Foundation),
or the CAS (like the Atlantean Foundation) want to see
a better solution to restore Chicago?

Or would Chicago become something of a UCAS version of
Berlin? A chaotic Free City? Or, like in Shadows of
North America, become a UCAS version of Japan's Yomi
island? And would that distinction extend beyond the
CZ and include ALL the neighborhoods of the City and
the suburban communities as well?

And, one thing I was always curious about: what would
happen to the City's noteable places? Like the John
Hancock Tower? Or N. Michigan Avenue (the Magnificent
Mile and Shopping District)? Or the Merchandise Mart
the HUGE architectural landmark funded by JFK)? Or
Marina Towers (those landmark, corncob towers on the
Chicago River)? Or Soldier Field, the United Center,
Comisky Park? Or the Navy Pier Shopping Complex on the
Lake Shore? Or the Wrigley Building? Or the AON Center
and the Prudential Building? None of these places were
mentioned in any Chicago reference. I assume they
probably didn't need mentioning, but I believe such
places offer great opportunities for the writers to
explore in the Shadowrun Universe as possibly all of
them lie in the Noose!

Could there still be some safe, secure places for
people inside and beyond the CZ (Ghoultown turned to
Freaktown with the appearance of Changelings and the
killing off of all the Ghouls by Strain III? What
happened with The Sanctum? What happened with
WrigleyDome? Or Volksville?)?

What do you guys think (regarding all these flurries
of questions)? I know it's a lot, but I think they
need to be addressed to enrich the Shadowrun Universe.

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Message no. 2
From: iridios@********.net (Iridios)
Subject: Uncontained Chicago
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 12:49:01 -0500
Scott Hiller wrote:
> Just some guesses on my part (so please confirm or
> correct), but I assume the vigilate gangs in Chicago
> OUTSIDE the CZ would effectively take the place of the
> positions along the wall left vacant by Ares, the
> Illinois National Guard troops and the UCAS Army

I was under the impression that most of the wall had been torn down,
with only small parts remaining. Vigilante gangs may be patrolling
along the "border" between the former cz and the clean areas.


> Also, how would the neighborhoods outside the CZ have
> been affected by the events in Chicago besides the
> floods of refugees and the vigilante attacks on CZ
> refugees?

The flood of refugees would have driven most of the other effects, such
as rise in crime, economic stress, and etc..


<snip>


> And, one thing I was always curious about: what would
> happen to the City's noteable places? Like the John
> Hancock Tower?

Isn't the Hancock Tower also the Sears Tower? And the Sears tower was
brought down by terrorists and became the Shattergraves. Which may have
affected the Magnificent mile and such.


--
Iridios
--
Good manners do not excuse criminal behavior.
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GCC0.3: y69>?.us[PA] G89 SCP/F/PA:@@[SR] B+>++ f@* RR rm= rr+ l- m=>-
w--->= s=>*:= GM+:+(=):=[PF] h= p!>+ LA= mf+ W+ C--(+) CG- OG+ F= c->= K=(?)
------------------------------------------------------
Selections from the diary of an AOL user.

July 23 I finally got the modem in and hooked up. that nine year
old next door did it for me. But it still don't work. I cant get
online.
Message no. 3
From: scotthiller2002@*****.com (Scott Hiller)
Subject: Uncontained Chicago
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:15:30 -0800 (PST)
Sounds reasonable. Most of the wall may have been torn
down, I'll have to re-read that.

But, to answer your question: "Isn't the Hancock Tower
also the Sears Tower?" No. The Sears Tower and the
John Hancock Tower are on opposite ends of the Loop.
The Sears Tower is on the south end on S. Wacker Drive
and W. Jackson. The Hancock Tower is on the north end,
north of the Chicago River at E. Chestnut and N.
Michigan Avenue (along the Magnificent Mile) and its
sides taper in to form a smaller top of the building
than at the base. The Sears Tower is cubical and
blocky with a "stair-step" shape. Both are black and
both have two broadcast antennae.

The Shattergraves are not near the John Hancock Tower,
but the site of the former Sears Tower is at Ground
Zero of the Shattergraves.

Which begs the question, what became of the John
Hancock Tower? I think that before Strain III, some
wasp spirits had nests and hives there in the upper
floors as they like tall buildings. But after Strain
III, maybe they could have all been killed off except
for one Free Wasp Spirit worshiped by one of the Bug
Cults? On the lower floors, could some bug hunters be
hunkered down in there? Maybe some smugglers use the
building as their weigh station for BTL and other
stuff? Or, maybe Tom Nishio is here (or in nearby
LakePoint Tower?) commanding a vast smuggling biz?
Could he be here coordinating the activities of both
Catherine the Terrible and King Vlad (giving him
access to both Midway International Airport AND giving
him access to O'Hare?)?

Thoughts? Comments?

Scott Hiller wrote:

> Just some guesses on my part (so please confirm or

> correct), but I assume the vigilate gangs in
Chicago

> OUTSIDE the CZ would effectively take the place of
the

> positions along the wall left vacant by Ares, the

> Illinois National Guard troops and the UCAS Army


I was under the impression that most of the wall had
been torn down,

with only small parts remaining. Vigilante gangs
may be patrolling

along the "border" between the former cz and the
clean areas.



> Also, how would the neighborhoods outside the CZ
have

> been affected by the events in Chicago besides the

> floods of refugees and the vigilante attacks on CZ

> refugees?


The flood of refugees would have driven most of the
other effects, such

as rise in crime, economic stress, and etc..



<snip>



> And, one thing I was always curious about: what
would

> happen to the City's noteable places? Like the
John

> Hancock Tower?


Isn't the Hancock Tower also the Sears Tower? And
the Sears tower was

brought down by terrorists and became the
Shattergraves. Which may

have

affected the Magnificent mile and such.

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Message no. 4
From: paladinu@****.com (paladinu@****.com)
Subject: Uncontained Chicago
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:41:32 -0600
-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott Hiller [mailto:scotthiller2002@*****.com]
>But, to answer your question: "Isn't the Hancock Tower
>also the Sears Tower?" No. The Sears Tower and the
>John Hancock Tower are on opposite ends of the Loop.
>The Sears Tower is on the south end on S. Wacker Drive
>and W. Jackson. The Hancock Tower is on the north end,
>north of the Chicago River at E. Chestnut and N.
>Michigan Avenue (along the Magnificent Mile) and its
>sides taper in to form a smaller top of the building.
>than at the base. The Sears Tower is cubical and
>blocky with a "stair-step" shape. Both are black and
>both have two broadcast antennae.
>
>The Shattergraves are not near the John Hancock Tower,
>but the site of the former Sears Tower is at Ground
>Zero of the Shattergraves.
----/Original Message-----

Also remember Changeling (sp), in which the destruction of the Sears
Tower is recounted, the tower is pointed out to have been acquired at
some point. The narrator says "The IBM tower, previously known as the
Sears Tower." IIRC. This seemed sort of an odd claim considering the
decline of IBM in the 1990's but much more possible given their recent
resurgence.

Uriah
Message no. 5
From: scotthiller2002@*****.com (Scott Hiller)
Subject: Uncontained Chicago
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:32:42 -0800 (PST)
You do have a good point, Uriah. To add to what you
said, Sears has been doing so bad financially for a
while now, SOMEONE eventually has to buy out the major
real estate represented by the Sears Tower. And, in
Shadowrun, why not a major computer firm like IBM?
Fits like a glove.

Seems like the folks at Shadowrun know their stuff to
a good degree! :-)

I enjoyed reading The Changeling. Read it about 10
years ago and still have my original copy. Since I
live in Chicago, it was fun reading about the fates of
different parts of the City and Suburbs as they'd
happen in the Shadowrun fiction! For example: the
Byrne Public Housing Projects on the Northside built
for Orks and Trolls sounds like it occupies the
current site of Old Orchard Mall up in Skokie! Though
I still have no idea where Bloodtown is supposed to be
located. The only thing I can guess is (since Bug City
says it's in the CZ, and NAGNA says it's east of I-94,
I figure it's the North Center neighborhood between
the Chicago River and I-94. And I think Elfhome might
actually be Lincoln Park and part of Lake View since
NAGNA says it's part of the Downtown Elevated and the
map in Burning Bright has the Downtown Elevated reach
up around the Noose and grab the Lincoln Park
neighborhood. But that's only guessing on my part. I
could be WAY off, though. Only the people at Wizkids
and FanPro may know for sure, though.

Have you read Burning Bright? A great book also set in
Chicago! 2 years after The Changeling and it deals
with the events leading up to the Bug City Sourcebook.

-Scott

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